Iron Giants - Throw


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Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 02:36

Iron Giants - Throw

Is the damage from this skill reduced by armor? Is it capable of being blocked?

I'm a little on the pissed off side right now.
I had an EXTREMELY promising character (40AC, 20EV, 40SH - with 2 runes) that could easily tab through Juggernauts that got completely wrecked by 1 throw.
Dead from right around half health.

I understand Juggernauts are capable of doing 120 damage in a hit, but that's reduced by armor.
If an Iron Giant's throw damage is reduced by armor, it's a little absurd how much damage it does for a monster you run into in Depths.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 02:42

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

40AC means incoming damage gets reduced by any value between 0 and 40 inclusive. It's random. You can botch an AC roll with any level of AC no matter how much you have.

Don't melee iron giants if you can avoid it.

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Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 02:44

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

And the GDR from the enchanted GDA I was wearing did nothing?
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 02:48

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

infinitevox wrote:And the GDR from the enchanted GDA I was wearing did nothing?


I think that only translates to 19-40 rather than 0-40

Don't quote me on this I could totally be wrong, thats just my understand.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 02:55

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

KoboldLord wrote:Don't melee iron giants


This is the solution.

Remember that iron giants move slowly.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 03:11

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

Huh, I didn't know that.

So they are basically the same as w but without regen?

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 03:16

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

It's a recent change. And they know irony shot, so not exactly like worms.

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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 09:50

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

The range on iron shot is quite short. Most of the time it's probably best to outmaneuver iron giants instead of fighting them. If you have to fight them, it's safer from range. The throw ignores EV (not sure about SH), can do up to 88 damage and is probably not affected by GDR. They can hit for 75 too, so meleeing them isn't good, but at least your SH and EV should help here.

Meleeing juggernauts seems like a poor idea unless you are willing to use a blink scroll if it puts you at <120 HP.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 22:02

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

GDR does nothing against throws or ranged attacks. It only applies to regular melee attacks.

You aren't actually supposed to be able to melee iron giants or juggernauts, as far as I can tell they were introduced specifically as anti-melee monsters. However, a while ago, iron giants were made slow (a staggeringly bad design decision), so it should be even easier than before to avoid them. And lots of characters can melee juggernauts anyway because of their nonsensically huge attack delay.
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 22:13

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

if you are with Chei (melee/UC), bend time pretty much shut down juggernauts
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Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 22:20

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

Isn't bend time pretty much reverse haste?
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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Tuesday, 31st May 2016, 22:22

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

I don't think iron giants and juggernauts are intended to not be meleeable. If juggernauts were speed 15 and did 120 and had no additional attack delay, I could see it. Iron giants are a lot more likely to kill you than juggernauts are with throw + iron shot.
I imagine the goal was to create monsters that are actually capable of killing a normal player melee character without being unfair. The player character is so powerful in Depths that this is not trivial, even if you don't have any evocations, summons, and so on.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 02:36

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

Well if that was the design, it most certainly worked. That thing $*(@)*($ destroyed me.
I do think it's rather silly that the damage isn't mitigated by armor/gdr though. Why the exception?
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 03:43

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

Being mitigated by GDR would be the exception. GDR only applies to vanilla melee.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 05:38

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

I fail to see how him throwing you is a ranged attack.
He has to be in melee range to use it. You are not being hit by anything thrown, you are the projectile.
IMO, this is a melee attack and should be subject to damage mitigation by armor & gdr
infinitevox on akrasiac & berotato
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 05:39

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

It's not a melee attack any more than Freeze, Sticky Flame, Vampiric Draining, etc. are.

IMO GDR should be removed.

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Lasty, nago, Sar, ydeve
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Slime Squisher

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Joined: Thursday, 14th April 2011, 17:28

Post Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 07:32

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

Duvessa, I'm convinced that if it were entirely up to you, Crawl would be a long hallway filled with jackals, gnolls with halberds, and vipers. Also the Orb of Zot would be a lie.
But I mean that in the best way possible.
infinitevox on akrasiac & berotato
Busy dying horrible deaths from chugging too many pots of Mutation.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 07:40

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

Nah, monsters using equipment is bad, and reaching is even worse

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 11:07

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

duvessa wrote:IMO GDR should be removed.

Would you (marginally) increase AC to compensate?

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 17:39

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

Of course.

Abyss Ambulator

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Post Thursday, 2nd June 2016, 17:53

Re: Iron Giants - Throw

In favour then! The less hidden (and confusion) numbers the better of course.

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