1st world problems

[Lacuenta]

So I have this demigod ie, just cleared orc2 and have no wpnskills trained yet, have freezing cloud castable and acces to 3 rods of clouds in orc shops. But,
I also found: a +12 double sword (slice, rc+ mp+9) and the mythrill axe "arga" +8 broad axe (speed, mr+, str+2).
Which of these weapons should I train?

[Airwolf]

I bet their damage is similar. Broad axe take 18 skill for min delay, 16 for double sword. How much do you like cleaving?

[Tiktacy]

I like arga because its an unrand and using unrands is always fun.

Damagewise, I'm pretty sure arga is better as well. Speed is a really powerful brand, especially with 8 slaying.

[WingedEspeon]

give me your stats totals so I can run some fSims. My instinct says that agra is probably better though.

[HardboiledGargoyle]

I like arga because its an unrand and using unrands is always fun.

Meh, this unrand has no special properties. For fun I'd go with the +12 slicing double sword. The most powerful physical one-hand striking in the game! I don't think it's worse and the MP+9 and rC+ complements your freezing cloud too. If base damage = slaying then double sword damage is (15 + 12)*7/6 = 31.5 and broad axe is (13 + 8)*1.5 = 31.5, but base damage > slaying damage and the double sword is more accurate too, so double sword > broad axe in terms of 1v1 DPS, plus it's faster to get to mindelay.

[ydeve]

I like arga because its an unrand and using unrands is always fun.

Meh, this unrand has no special properties. For fun I'd go with the +12 slicing double sword. The most powerful physical one-hand striking in the game! I don't think it's worse and the MP+9 and rC+ complements your freezing cloud too. If base damage = slaying then double sword damage is (15 + 12)*7/6 = 31.5 and broad axe is (13 + 8)*1.5 = 31.5, but base damage > slaying damage and the double sword is more accurate too, so double sword > broad axe in terms of 1v1 DPS, plus it's faster to get to mindelay.

Speed is better damage than slicing.

[Hurkyl]

That's why he gave speed *1.5 and slicing *7/6.

[Rast]

15*7/6 = 35/2
13*1.5 = 39/2

So Arga is better.

[VeryAngryFelid]

People should stop ignoring cleaving when comparing weapons.

[Hurkyl]

To elaborate, Rast's point is (presumably) that the "base damage > slaying" observation favors the axe, not the sword.

OTOH, the observation that monsters have AC favors the sword, not the axe.

[Siegurt]

15*7/6 = 35/2
13*1.5 = 39/2

So Arga is better.

That ignores the difference in enchantment (both brands multiply the enchantment damage)

It also ignores the fact that the double sword will get a larger bonus to damage from skill (both fighting and weapon skill multiply the base damage before enchantment or brand)

It also ignores the fact that argas takes more skill points to get to min delay.

Regarding cleave, i think it is fair to leave cleave out of damage calculations and just add "and this weapon has cleave" since how valuable that is depends heavily on play style and paranoia level, for some players cleave is nearly useless, for some it is a fair sized boon.

Similarly, one handed ness is an attribute that on its own doesn't directly mean anything and it's value depends on factors outside the weapon itself.

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

The lack of damage from either of these weapons makes me appreciate transmuters even more.

[ZoFy]

For the lack of actual character's morgue, i ran a few fsims of a level 21 DgIE with 11 str, 16 dex (only Int trained), 15 Fighting, 18 Axes and 16 Long Blades (min delay points):

  Code:

                            |  stone giant  |  curse toe  |  orb of fire
+8 broad axe (speed, Str+2) |     17,3      |    10,4     |     7,1
+12 double sword (slice)    |     18,9      |    12,1     |     8,9       


The numbers in the table are AvEffDam, of course. The double sword looks substantially better unless you're concerned with MR or cleaving.

[VeryAngryFelid]

Can you test it with might? I think it can make the axe better vs OoF.

[ZoFy]

Can you test it with might? I think it can make the axe better vs OoF.

Ah, sure.

  Code:

+Might                      |  stone giant  |  curse toe  |  orb of fire
+8 broad axe (speed, Str+2) |     30,5      |    20,5     |     13,8
+12 double sword (slice)    |     28,9      |    21,2     |     13,9       

+10 slaying                 |  stone giant  |  curse toe  |  orb of fire
+8 broad axe (speed, Str+2) |     26,7      |    18,1     |     13,9
+12 double sword (slice)    |     27,0      |    18,5     |     14,9       


I also included fsims with a crazy slaying bonus and no might here. Very close results all around but note the huge jump in damage compared to no buffs and a surprising effect of increased accuracy on the sword damage vs OoF.