Starting with shields; should one unequip?


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Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 17:43

Starting with shields; should one unequip?

Obviously fighters start with a regular shield equipped. Equally obvious is the fact that a starting character's skills are going to be low. No character is going to be close to hitting minimum delay, nor is any character going to start with the 9/15/21 level skill (species size dependent) necessary to negate the shield's penalties. This always pops into my mind when I find myself starting a new fighter character, or discover a shield early when I have the intention to use one. I always tell myself I should ask the good ol' folks at the tavern... but am getting into my comfortable Crawl groove and tell myself I'll do it later.

This time it will not be later, though!... it will be... NOW!

So, the question: Should one leave the starting shield equipped after starting a new character?

And if so, are the penalties negligible, perhaps compared to the benefits? Perhaps considerable but even still outweighed by the benefits?

If not, when should one equip the shield - when, roughly, would the benefits start to outweigh the penalties? Do you want to train your weapon up to a certain point, and then equip the shield? Or do you want to make sure your weapon AND shield are appropriately skilled up before you start using the shield?

Sorry if this is a jumbled mess, I have been awake far too long. Regular nightmares and consistently disturbed sleep make me avoid bed sometimes to the point where it's admittedly sometimes unhealthy.

TL;DR*****************************
***************TL;DR**************::::: Should a starting character equip a shield immediately, or wait until they have certain skill levels?
*****************************TL;DR

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Post Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 18:44

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

In my experience, you're better off with the starting shield than without. It can often be a good idea to ditch the shield if you find a good two-handed weapon before you've got a good one-handed weapon.

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Post Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 19:13

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

The shield increases the ratio of damage dealt/damage received, so I never ditch the shield until I find a two-hander. Although I also never train it, unless I stumble upon an especially great one-hander early on. Octopode fighter being the exception.
Spellcasting penalties, Armour skill, and strength
15 runes: 2x HuSk, Op(Mo,Tm,Wn,Fi,Wr,EE,AM,Wz,Ne), VSTm, DsTm, Dg(Sk,Tm), MuGl, GhMo, Fe(En,EE,Ar,Wn,IE)
3 runes: FoFi, OgSk, KoHu, SpCj, 2x DgGl, MiBe, Fe(Fi,Tm,Mo,Su)

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 19:44

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

Don't train shields. Keep the shield on until your best weapon is a two-hander or you get spells, then drop it.

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dowan

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Post Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 21:45

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

FR fighters should start with a buckler.

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Post Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 22:42

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

starting with a buckler would be weaker than starting with a shield
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 23:02

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

Thanks for the responses. I'm surprised that the combined deficit of low weapon and shield skill doesn't cripple a beginning character, but I guess I should've figured the devs wouldn't start a class out equipped in such a way to HANDICAP itself. LoL

A second question, if I may... I don't want to start two basic question threads in one day if I can avoid it!

Is there a simple way to figure out the STR "requirement" for different armors? I remember it used to be something like EV penalty times three, or perhaps that is imagination replacing memory. I read somewhere recently that you just take the encumbrance rating and subtract two and you get your number. Sounds reasonable, but that would mean GDA, which used to require 27 STR at one point, if I remember correctly, now needs only 21. Has it been reduced that much? Or am I totally off in both cases? Thanks in advance.

Oh, and I know "requirement" is a misnomer - you can WEAR any armor you want of course (well, at least STR won't stop you), but there is an effectiveness threshold or what have you. Thought everyone would get the gist.

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Post Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 23:14

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

LJFCAT wrote:Is there a simple way to figure out the STR "requirement" for different armors?

~ER is a good approximation. With a pure fighter, I'd increase Str to ~20 or so, put the rest to Dex, but never increase Dex over 24 with items. With Str 20, if one is willing to fetch all the runes, it's possible to cast even Haste with it. See my sig for more details regarding body armour and spellcasting.
Spellcasting penalties, Armour skill, and strength
15 runes: 2x HuSk, Op(Mo,Tm,Wn,Fi,Wr,EE,AM,Wz,Ne), VSTm, DsTm, Dg(Sk,Tm), MuGl, GhMo, Fe(En,EE,Ar,Wn,IE)
3 runes: FoFi, OgSk, KoHu, SpCj, 2x DgGl, MiBe, Fe(Fi,Tm,Mo,Su)

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Post Wednesday, 4th May 2016, 23:17

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

There are two ways to play a "hybrid" melee fighter: the skald way, or the fighter way.

The skald gets the buffs online early on: Spectral Weapon, Regen, et al, and doesn't wear armour heavier than a scale mail, or a light dragon armour, for a good part of the game.

The fighter just wears the heaviest armour she can find and disregards the spells until Armour skill is quite high.

Both end up with the same buffs in the end, the route just differs.
Spellcasting penalties, Armour skill, and strength
15 runes: 2x HuSk, Op(Mo,Tm,Wn,Fi,Wr,EE,AM,Wz,Ne), VSTm, DsTm, Dg(Sk,Tm), MuGl, GhMo, Fe(En,EE,Ar,Wn,IE)
3 runes: FoFi, OgSk, KoHu, SpCj, 2x DgGl, MiBe, Fe(Fi,Tm,Mo,Su)

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Post Thursday, 5th May 2016, 01:21

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

duvessa wrote:starting with a buckler would be weaker than starting with a shield

bucklers are better than shields though

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Post Thursday, 5th May 2016, 02:10

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

they are better than shields if you have spells

guess what Fi doesn't start with

(it's fucking spells)

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Post Thursday, 5th May 2016, 06:16

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

duvessa wrote:they are better than shields if you have spells

guess what Fi doesn't start with

(it's fucking spells)


Please never change. You are like The Amazing Athiest but without the banana incident and an elf fetish. Also you probably have better social skills.
To all new players: Ignore all strategy guides posted on the wiki, ask questions in the Advice forum, players with lots of posts normally have the best advice.

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infinitevox

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Post Thursday, 5th May 2016, 15:46

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

please don't associate me with MRAs in any way

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Slime Squisher

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Post Thursday, 5th May 2016, 21:19

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

I had to google both of those things.
I laughed pretty hard.
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Post Saturday, 7th May 2016, 05:10

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

What is this joke? Please share/explain.

Sar

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Post Saturday, 7th May 2016, 08:18

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

Tiktacy is a Holocaust-denying 4channarian memelord. Minmay is an asexual progressive tumblerite with an elf fetish. Together, they fight crime!

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Post Sunday, 8th May 2016, 01:35

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

i mean i don't really have an elf fetish since i don't feel sexual attraction/arousal at all. but if i were straight, or gay, or lesbian, or bisexual, or anything else, then yes, i would probably have an elf fetish

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Post Sunday, 8th May 2016, 11:00

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

LJFCAT wrote:Starting with shields; should one unequip?

minmay wrote:i mean i don't really have an elf fetish since i don't feel sexual attraction/arousal at all. but if i were straight, or gay, or lesbian, or bisexual, or anything else, then yes, i would probably have an elf fetish


Well, that escalated quickly.
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Post Sunday, 8th May 2016, 13:52

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

All road lead to Elf Fetish.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 8th May 2016, 17:48

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

typically when a thread's original post has a simple question and it gets answered, the thread gets derailed into one of the standard tavern dramas

this also typically happens for all other threads

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Post Sunday, 8th May 2016, 21:09

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

Sometimes this happens before the question gets answered.
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Post Friday, 20th May 2016, 16:14

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

Lasty wrote:In my experience, you're better off with the starting shield than without.


Does this only apply to normal or larger sized races but also to small ones (Ko and Ha)? If not so (or even if) may it be possible to let them start with a buckler instead of a shield, like spriggans already do? I mean, under "normal" circumstances, both aren't going to use a normal sized shield ever anyway.

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Post Friday, 20th May 2016, 21:31

Re: Starting with shields; should one unequip?

it applies to all races

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