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Is there a build for octopode that isn't a a straight up fighter? I am probably on my 50th Octopode, the few that made it far died in a spectacular way but most of them don't make it off the ground. I am assuming that a straight fighter build is really difficult and I need to combine casting and fighting. I don't mind grinding waiting for that good item but this is getting ridiculous.

At this point I am thinking greater player is easier than great player.

Thanks in advance.

You can't be a greaterplayer without being a greatplayer...

Also, try Ice Elementalist.

After throwing lots and lots of them at the dungeon, I finally got my octopode win as a chaos knight. Odd choice, but it seemed to work pretty well, and it certainly wasn't boring. Also Xom will gift you all sorts of items, some of them actually useful.

Ice elementalist is probably a much more practical option, but it does get boring playing the same character over and over.

Is there an Op build that's not a straight up fighter? Sure, book backgrounds are better off using spells through most of the early game.

Op are one of the harder species, but 50 deaths sounds like better tactics are required. Like with any fragile start: Lure enemies a lot. Fight 1v1. Avoid difficult fights. Use consumables before it's too late. Etc.

Octopodes play mostly like everything else, only with 10% fewer hit points and taking extra damage from every attack. In compensation, they get a strong auxiliary melee attack.

A helpful thing to think about when playing them is that you need to adjust your threat assessment to compensate for the fact that they have a special vulnerability that more typical species don't have. Monsters that are behind the leveling curve are usually pretty harmless even if you disregard careful play when dealing with them, because they just don't deal enough damage to get past the typical character's AC on a reliable basis. For instance, a character that reaches Lair will encounter many large swarms of river rats that are almost completely harmless even with something as simple as leather. A typical conjurations character can still just tab them with a weapon, because they are just that harmless. An octopode, on the other hand, is still taking full damage from every one of them, and their damage does add up when multiple rats are allowed to get into melee range.

It isn't so much that the rats are actually dangerous to octopodes; they're still tab fodder that die in a solid melee hit or two, and constriction will kill them quickly on its own as well. Weak monsters like river rats mostly spawn to make levels seem more crowded without actually being dangerous, but octopodes do need to use basic tactics against them even though most other species have no particular reason to bother.

Melee Octopodes are very hard to do, just go with a magic/ranged one. As for specific tipps: Berders melee octopode guide should be googleable.

I find shields to be a necessity for melee Octopodes. Training stealth early (to 3-5ish) is cheap and immensely helps survival. Train dodging early; compared to looser races Octopode damage output is so much higher that you dont need all the weapon skill early, whereas you absolutely do need EV.

A no dodging/no fighting/no melee skill XL 3 Octopode can easily kill crimson imps!

What about OpEn^Dith ? That should be quite easy... Or any blaster Op, that'll give you a nice glass cannon ! Try OpCj^Veh and stack Int rings :p

Berder's guide was written back when you could use Shadowstep on plants.

it was also written by berder

Thanks for the advice, things are going better, last death was due to paralization, I blinked and then got hit by steam. I am not really concerned about paralization deaths, what's concerning is when I run out of resources. Octopodes appear to be especially vulnerable to paralization.

I generally think on the whole, I am frustrated by octopode and I have been trying to play faster to get it over with but since I am playing faster small mistakes add up and result in using resources or being put in bad places.

sage1234 wrote:Is there a build for octopode

Oh yeah, what you want to do is play a..

that isn't a a straight up fighter?

Oh. You already know. Seriously, shield makes the early game so, so, so much less deadly.

sage1234 wrote:Is there a build for octopode that isn't a a straight up fighter?

Btw you can --FE^Veh every race, octopi is awesome for it since you can wear wizardry, magpower and 2 rings of fire simultaneously.

I tend to have the easiest time with octopodes as an assassin. Does octopodes constriction increase stab damage?

Tiktacy wrote:I tend to have the easiest time with octopodes as an assassin. Does octopodes constriction increase stab damage?

Constriction is incredibly lethal in normal combat for very little xp investment. Normally monsters that a stabber fails to stab are dangerous when they wake up, but constriction just kills them anyway. Maybe that has something to do with your experience?

KoboldLord wrote:
Tiktacy wrote:I tend to have the easiest time with octopodes as an assassin. Does octopodes constriction increase stab damage?

Constriction is incredibly lethal in normal combat for very little xp investment. Normally monsters that a stabber fails to stab are dangerous when they wake up, but constriction just kills them anyway. Maybe that has something to do with your experience?

What skill is constriction based off of?

sage1234 wrote:What skill is constriction based off of?

It isn't, unless there was a commit that I missed. It has some base calculations that don't matter because you can't change them easily, and then damage ramps up the longer you maintain it. So the only skill training you need for it is enough fighting and dodging so you don't die while you're doing it. Pretty much everything that is small enough to be affected runs out of hit points in a few rounds of compounding damage, assuming you can stand there that long. Normal melee combat usually involves a lot more missing.

IMO OP seem best suited for being mages from what I can tell. 8 ring slots means you can wear a lot of +int rings, your AC is going to be bad anyway so you can make it less of a problem by casting spells at range. 8 ring slots also lets you gear up with a lot of spell enhancers and even wiz rings, and you can't wear armour so you won't have any casting penalties. I got my OP win as a Tm, but I also got my DE win as a Be, so that should tell you how biased to play melee characters I am...

I played Op as a FE. It played like pretty much any other FE, except slightly squishier. Op mages aren't bad.

generally octopode conjurer-type starts are the best, since although constriction + tentacle slap makes d:1 pretty much free (this is true even with book starts) it doesn't scale up fast enough to make up for your bad hp/defenses later

Lasty wrote:There are two parts of the game where Op is stronger than average: D:1-2, where your constricting aux does more work than low-skill melee, and post-endgame, where you can take advantage of having more slots than other races. In between, Op is mostly harder than average.

In terms of the best way to play melee Op, start by ignoring every single specific case in Berder's guide, aside from the common-sense stuff that applies to all characters (e.g. use a blowgun if you have one). All the gods that are normally good are still good for melee Op, but ones that give extra defense of some sort are better than normal (Dith, Fedhas, Ru, Yred, Kiku, even Qaz) as are the ones that give ways to harm things that aren't standing next to you (Veh, Makh, Fedhas, Qaz, Ru, Lucy, etc.). Dodging and Stealth are your defensive skills, and you have little excuse not to get a few levels of both early in the game. Shields are better for you than average, but not so much so that you need to abandon a good early two-hander. Branching into spells is definitely worth doing.

Edit:
Here are a few examples of melee-start Ops, covering a range of different approaches:
OpGl^Dith, specializing in hexes w/ Majin Bo: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Lasty/morgu ... 214038.txt
OpFi^Qaz, specializing in kicking ass with a vamp broad axe and Qaz invocations: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Lasty/morgu ... 003945.txt
OpCK^Xom, stabbing, large shield, evocations, summoning: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Lasty/morgu ... 215141.txt
OpAK^Lucy, great mace of protection, summoning: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/Lasty/morgu ... 023609.txt

......OpMo^Zin is a fun challenge, too.

I guess?

Lasty wrote:post-endgame, where you can take advantage of having more slots than other races.

Body armor + boots + helm + gloves + cloak (five slots total) is better than six extra ring slots, especially when you have a high Armor skill.

Well, rings with egos actually exist, that's the whole point of them.

Yeah, I'll take the extra 20-50 points of AC over an extra ring ego.

Having body armour is good, yes.

Yeah, for most of the game, body armor beats having additional ring slots. In the very long game (post-end, as I said), the extra slots allow you to wear more total crazy artefacts, potentially giving you more power than the normal number of slots; you also keep all those extra slots in statue form, for statue form enthusiasts.

So, what you're saying is.... you recommend Op for zigs?

ydeve wrote:So, what you're saying is.... you recommend Op for zigs?

In my experience, yes ! By the time you can deal with Zigs, you've access to very powerful rings (if the RNG wasn't too mean). Having more slots (overall) than any other race makes you stronger. You'll easily get ~15-20 AC, Haste and at least a level 9 spell. A Firestorm Op will clear all the Zigs you want !

OpEE is a very easy start - sand blast will carry you to lair. later you can easily transition to blaster mage (veh) or stoneform uc fighter (makh)

mopl wrote:
ydeve wrote:So, what you're saying is.... you recommend Op for zigs?
In my experience, yes ! By the time you can deal with Zigs, you've access to very powerful rings (if the RNG wasn't too mean). Having more slots (overall) than any other race makes you stronger. You'll easily get ~15-20 AC, Haste and at least a level 9 spell. A Firestorm Op will clear all the Zigs you want !

I cleared my first Zig with an UC octopode of Makhleb + statform + Tornado, and it was easy enough, so Op is definitely viable for those purposes.

Makhleb is the best Zig god because HP from kills, and an octopode with 8 rings will have the Int required to cast the 9th level spells at low fail % even without spending a single stat raise during the regular game. So Op for zigs is definitely viable, not sure if better than a really specifically built combo in a good body armour + Necromutation.

As to the OP's question: IMO the best builds for an Op are Tm, IE, and EE. Tm gets forms from the get go up to Blade Hands that gives enough killing power to win the game. IE has Ozocubu's Armour, the best AC buff spell in the game. EE has Stoneskin, even AC+2 helps a lot, and Sandblast wipes out most threts in the early game.

Play as a transmuter, or a wanna-be transmuter, and after getting statform online the game is all but won.

ThreeInvisibleDucks wrote: EE has Stoneskin, even AC+2 helps a lot,

Not anymore.

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