Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Snake Sneak

Posts: 105

Joined: Friday, 6th June 2014, 22:20

Post Tuesday, 12th April 2016, 16:20

Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

Things were going great, I was basically able to hold down the tab key through vaults 1:4, so when I got to 5 I was expecting a bit of challenge but no where near as hard as it was. Yes I got a few bad rolls but was able to use all my consumables to stay alive. I was never able to make it back to the stairwell and the Titan's tore me apart.

There were things that I didn't have like rf++ but overall I was amazed at how hard was to survive. My best thought is I should have done depths before I entered zot:5, maybe that was my only mistake but I doubt it.

Any advice is appreciated, thank you.

http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/sage1234/morgue-sage1234-20160412-150136.txt

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.18-a0-1745-gffa9a88 (webtiles) character file.

430830 sage1234 the Ninja (level 22, -14/192 HPs)
             Began as a Vampire Berserker on Apr 11, 2016.
             Was a Priest of Trog.
             Killed by the air
             ... invoked by a titan
              (29 damage)
             ... on level 5 of the Vaults on Apr 12, 2016.
             The game lasted 15:38:59 (66915 turns).

sage1234 the Ninja (Vampire Berserker)             Turns: 66915, Time: 15:39:00

Health: -14/192    AC: 19    Str: 16    XL:     22   Next: 83%
Magic:  6/6        EV: 37    Int: 14    God:    Trog [***...]
Gold:   548        SH: 22    Dex: 29    Spells: 0 memorised, 21 levels left

rFire  + + .      SeeInvis +    a - +9 quick blade (antimagic)
rCold  + . .      Gourm    .    e - +3 leather armour {rF+}
rNeg   + . .      Faith    .    f - +5 shield {rN+}
rPois  .          Spirit   .    d - +2 hat {MR+}
rElec  +          Dismiss  .    C - +2 cloak
rCorr  .          Reflect  +    o - +2 pair of gloves of Hitonu {MR+ MP-9 Dex+2}
SustAt .          Harm     .    j - +2 pair of boots
MR     +++++                    K - amulet of Ubaj {Reflect rC+ Int+4 SH+3}
Stlth  ++++++++++               D - ring of Levity {+Fly MR+ Str+3}
                                Z - ring of Gafol {rElec rF+ Str-4 SInv}

@: agile, very slightly contaminated, regenerating, invisible, almost entirely
resistant to hostile enchantments, uncannily stealthy
A: fangs 3, see invisible, unbreathing
a: Berserk, Trog's Hand, Burn Spellbooks, Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight
}: 2/15 runes: barnacled, gossamer


You were on level 5 of the Vaults.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was most pleased with you.
You were full.

You visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and saw 43 of its levels.

You collected 5263 gold pieces.
You spent 4715 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +9 antimagic quick blade (weapon)
 b - the +10 dagger "Hellblazer" {speed, rPois Dex+2}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon are significantly faster.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It protects you from poison.
Armour
 d - a +2 hat of magic resistance (worn)
 e - a +3 leather armour of fire resistance (worn)
 f - a +5 shield of positive energy (worn)
 j - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 l - the +2 robe of vines {NoDeviceHeal Regen+7}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 o - the +2 pair of gloves of Hitonu (worn) {MR+ MP-9 Dex+2}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It affects your magic capacity (-9).
 C - a +2 cloak (worn)
 M - a +3 buckler
Rods
 m - a +2 rod of shadows (14/14)
   (You took it off a deep elf demonologist on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 A - a +4 rod of shadows (11/11)
   (You took it off a deep elf annihilator on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
Jewellery
 n - an uncursed ring of stealth {unknown}
 t - the ring "Osesiargh" {rPois rC++ Str-5}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Spider Nest)   
   
   [ring of poison resistance]
   
   It affects your strength (-5).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
 D - the ring of Levity (right hand) {+Fly MR+ Str+3}
   (You took it off a deep elf annihilator on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you fly.
 E - the amulet of Wemieq {Regen+ Dex+4 Slay+3 SInv}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [amulet of regeneration]
   
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+3).
   It lets you see invisible.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 J - the ring of Ekinen {SustAt rElec Str+4}
   (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of sustain attributes]
   
   It sustains your strength, intelligence and dexterity.
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It insulates you from electricity.
 K - the amulet of Ubaj (around neck) {Reflect rC+ Int+4 SH+3}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of reflection]
   
   It shields you and reflects attacks.
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your SH (+3).
 Y - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 Z - the ring of Gafol (left hand) {rElec rF+ Str-4 SInv}
   (You took it off a deep elf demonologist on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of see invisible]
   
   It affects your strength (-4).
   It protects you from fire.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you see invisible.
Wands
 c - a wand of heal wounds (0/9)
 v - a wand of iceblast (9/15)
 L - a wand of teleportation (0/9)
 N - a wand of digging (12/24)
 S - a wand of digging (8/24)
Scrolls
 i - 13 scrolls of remove curse
 k - 8 scrolls of fear
 r - a scroll of enchant weapon
 u - 12 scrolls of identify
 B - 2 scrolls of magic mapping
 O - 3 scrolls of fog
Potions
 g - 2 potions of magic
 p - a potion of invisibility
 q - 58 potions of blood
 z - 11 potions of curing
 G - 7 potions of flight
 I - 4 potions of cancellation
 Q - 3 potions of might
 R - 7 potions of ambrosia
 X - 3 potions of cure mutation
Books
 T - a book of Battle   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Infusion                     Charms                        1
    b - Shroud of Golubria           Charms/Translocation          2
    c - Song of Slaying              Charms                        2
    d - Spectral Weapon              Hexes/Charms                  3
    e - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
   
   
   Trog disapproves of the use of such an item.
Miscellaneous
 y - a fan of gales (inert)
 V - a legendary deck of summoning {drawn: 6}
 W - a phantom mirror


   Skills:
 * Level 20.5 Fighting
 + Level 22.2 Short Blades
 - Level 9.7 Armour
 + Level 17.3 Dodging
 O Level 27 Stealth
 + Level 13.4 Shields
 - Level 10.2 Evocations


You had 21 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:5            Lair (8/8) D:11
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:5       Spider (4/4) Lair:4        Slime (0/6) Lair:7
    Orc (2/2) D:10            Elf (3/3) Orc:2        Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2     Depths (2/5) D:15       

Altars:
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Pakellas
Ru
Vehumet
Xom
Jiyva

Shops:
D:13 }   D:15 ?   Orc:2 ?[%[   Elf:2 *   Shoals:4 *[   Vaults:2 ?=
Vaults:3 *

Portals:
Hell: Lair:8 Depths:1
Abyss: Depths:1
Trove: D:14 (give 15 potions of curing)


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

Your natural rate of healing is unusually fast.
You have razor-sharp teeth.
You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
You can survive without breathing.


Message History

The tengu reaver casts a spell.
The tengu reaver conjures a globe of magical energy!
A battlesphere comes into view.
A fierce wind blows from the fan.
The battlesphere and the tengu reaver are blown away by the wind.
The winds coalesce and take form.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
As you read the scroll of fear, it crumbles to dust.
You assume a fearsome visage. The battlesphere is unaffected.
Your air elemental is unaffected. x2
The titan resists with almost no effort.
The ogre looks frightened! The tengu reaver easily resists.
The titan points at you and mumbles some strange words.
The bolt of lightning hits your air elemental.
Your air elemental completely resists.
The bolt of lightning hits you!
You draw a card... It is the Elements.
The titan waves its arms in wide circles.
The air twists around and strikes you!
You die...

   #.[#.......#.........#....
   ####..#.........#.........
   #.....#....[....#.........
   #...#####..#..#####..#..##
   #.....#.........#.........
   #.....#..Q.O)...#.........
   ##DC........)E.C.........#
    #....#####h*...#####....#
   #.......#@(!Q.[)=%#.......
  ....##...#9k[O.%?})#...##..
#....#######################(
#....c.......................
#........D.........C)........
#############################


You could see a titan, a tengu reaver, an ogre (fleeing), a battlesphere, a
friendly wind drake (wandering), a friendly polar bear (wandering), a friendly
air elemental and a friendly molten gargoyle (wandering).

Vanquished Creatures
  Mara (Elf:3)
  Norris (Depths:1)
  A golden dragon (Vaults:5)
  Nikola (Shoals:2)
  Arachne (Spider:3)
  The ghost of Blomdor the Slayer, a veteran TeBe of Trog (Vaults:3)
  Rupert (Lair:8)
  A tentacled monstrosity (Vaults:5)
  A titan (Vaults:5)
  A deep elf blademaster (Elf:2)
  A quicksilver dragon (Vaults:5)
  Polyphemus (Shoals:3)
  2 sphinxes
  Kirke (D:12)
  A storm dragon (Vaults:2)
  A shadow dragon (Vaults:5)
  2 tengu reavers (Vaults:5)
  Wiglaf (Vaults:3)
  Ilsuiw (Shoals:4)
  A fire giant (Vaults:5)
  Donald (Shoals:3)
  Aizul (Shoals:2)
  4 deep elf sorcerers
  6 ghost moths
  13 vault wardens
  6 emperor scorpions
  2 deep elf elementalists
  An orc warlord (Orc:2)
  2 ghouls
  3 very ugly things
  14 ironheart preservers
  2 war gargoyles (Vaults:5)
  7 stone giants
  Nessos (Lair:7)
  2 salamander stormcallers
  4 deep elf demonologists
  12 deep elf annihilators
  Azrael (Elf:1)
  A dire elephant (D:15)
  3 spark wasps (Spider:4)
  Snorg (Orc:2)
  4 deep elf death magi
  3 ettins
  5 merfolk javelineers
  9 merfolk impalers
  10 vault guards
  4 great orbs of eyes
  9 yaktaur captains
  13 hydras
  4 deep elf high priests
  An ice dragon (Depths:1)
  A spriggan air mage (Depths:2)
  An entropy weaver (Spider:1)
  6 merfolk avatars
  Erolcha (D:8)
  4 death knights
  Erica (D:8)
  4 satyrs
  9 merfolk aquamancers
  3 deep troll shamans
  3 catoblepae
  2 titan zombies (Vaults:2)
  7 centaur warriors
  4 tengu warriors
  13 ogre magi
  A queen ant (D:10)
  24 dancing weapons
  12 death yaks
  2 deep troll earth magi (Vaults:2)
  A spriggan berserker (Depths:1)
  An orc high priest (Elf:3)
  2 soul eaters (Depths:1)
  3 skeletal warriors (D:14)
  19 deep elf knights
  4 sun demons
  A fire crab (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  A salamander mystic (Vaults:3)
  3 shadow wraiths
  7 unseen horrors
  A giant orange brain (Vaults:2)
  8 deep trolls
  12 sea snakes
  An unseen horror (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  5 iron trolls
  4 wizards
  13 ironbrand convokers
  21 orc knights
  12 deep elf archers
  11 hill giants
  17 harpies
  12 orb spiders
  3 necromancers
  A stone giant zombie (Vaults:2)
  2 phantasmal warriors
  9 hornets
  49 deep elf magi
  6 orc sorcerers
  A wolf spider zombie (D:15)
  18 ugly things
  14 griffons
  37 wolf spiders
  14 manticores
  A sixfirhy (Lair:8)
  14 fauns
  2 black mambas
  23 elephants
  2 salamanders
  4 water nymphs
  6 cyclopes
  An elephant (shapeshifter) (Depths:1)
  8 vault sentinels
  3 centaur zombies
  2 moths of wrath
  A smoke demon (Lair:8)
  10 sirens
  A rust devil (Depths:1)
  3 orange demons
  A black mamba (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  10 spiny frogs
  2 torpor snails
  2 rime drakes (shapeshifter)
  2 efreet (D:15)
  7 rime drakes
  8 komodo dragons
  37 yaktaurs
  2 yaktaurs (shapeshifter)
  11 freezing wraiths
  10 demonic crawlers
  6 ice devils
  3 polar bears
  5 red devils
  A wind drake (Shoals:3)
  14 trolls
  3 tengu conjurers
  33 jumping spiders
  33 merfolk
  A polar bear (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  A wind drake (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  28 slime creatures
  21 two-headed ogres
  A queen bee (Spider:1)
  23 blink frogs
  A human simulacrum (Vaults:2)
  10 boulder beetles
  A hornet zombie (D:15)
  A boulder beetle (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  9 snapping turtles
  19 water elementals
  3 spriggans
  79 redbacks
  A spriggan (shapeshifter) (D:15)
  2 wraiths
  40 yaks
  6 air elementals
  26 tarantellas
  3 fire elementals
  A hungry ghost (D:13)
  A golden eye (shapeshifter) (Elf:2)
  A hippogriff (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  A wyvern (D:10)
  5 hogs (D:12)
  7 basilisks
  15 hippogriffs
  4 wargs
  6 vampire mosquitoes
  2 mottled dragons
  A deep troll zombie (Vaults:2)
  A swamp worm (shapeshifter) (Elf:2)
  6 soldier ants
  15 water moccasins
  11 porcupines
  5 hell hounds (Elf:1)
  Duvessa (D:3)
  A black bear (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  52 orc warriors
  An orc zombie (Vaults:2)
  13 wasps
  3 sky beasts
  An eye of draining (D:7)
  11 ice beasts
  3 phantoms
  5 black bears
  An eye of draining (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  8 wolves
  64 ogres
  32 centaurs
  24 crocodiles
  3 big kobolds
  A giant frog (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  21 giant frogs
  A glowing shapeshifter simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  5 earth elementals
  2 human skeletons (Vaults:2)
  An ogre simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  Dowan (D:4)
  8 scorpions
  An elf simulacrum (Vaults:2)
  36 killer bees
  A howler monkey (D:11)
  14 wights
  8 electric eels
  13 crimson imps
  A giant frog zombie (D:5)
  10 hounds
  7 jellies
  4 giant frog skeletons
  A gnoll shaman (D:8)
  17 orc priests
  5 centaur skeletons
  An iron imp (Depths:1)
  27 orc wizards
  28 worker ants
  15 iguanas
  31 sheep
  2 hound skeletons
  2 worker ant zombies
  9 gnolls
  45 river rats
  14 adders
  5 shadow imps
  3 white imps
  An ooze (D:5)
  2 adder zombies
  2 adder skeletons
  5 worms
  2 dart slugs
  6 giant geckos
  120 orcs
  7 giant cockroaches
  8 goblins
  8 hobgoblins
  16 jackals
  6 quokkas
  2 ball pythons
  5 bats
  4 giant newts
  21 kobolds
  3 quokka skeletons
  4 rats
  A fungus (D:1)
  13 plants
2010 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A titan (Vaults:5)
  A tengu reaver (Vaults:5)
  An emperor scorpion (Spider:4)
  4 vault wardens
  2 ironheart preservers
  2 stone giants
  A deep elf demonologist (Elf:1)
  A blizzard demon (Depths:1)
  2 merfolk javelineers (Shoals:4)
  2 ettins (Vaults:5)
  5 vault guards
  A yaktaur captain (Vaults:3)
  A deep elf high priest (Elf:1)
  An ice dragon (Vaults:3)
  The ghost of Stanimator the Geomancer, a journeyman GrEE of Sif Muna (D:10)
  5 dancing weapons (Elf:2)
  Nergalle (D:10)
  A soul eater (Depths:1)
  A deep elf archer (Elf:1)
  An obsidian statue (Depths:1)
  2 deep trolls
  A hill giant (D:10)
  An orc knight (Vaults:5)
  A harpy (Shoals:4)
  A phantasmal warrior (Vaults:5)
  6 deep elf magi
  A wolf spider (Spider:4)
  2 ironbrand convokers (Vaults:4)
  3 orb spiders
  4 ugly things
  A guardian serpent (shapeshifter) (Elf:1)
  A salamander (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  A vault sentinel (Vaults:3)
  An orange demon (Depths:1)
  A spiny frog (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  A gargoyle (D:10)
  2 yaktaurs (Vaults:3)
  2 merfolk (Shoals:4)
  A troll (Vaults:5)
  3 jumping spiders
  3 tarantellas (Spider:2)
  2 redbacks (Spider:3)
  A warg (Vaults:3)
  3 orc warriors
  A centaur (Depths:1)
  2 crimson imps (Depths:1)
  2 orc priests
  A giant frog skeleton (D:10)
  3 orcs
89 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A deep elf master archer (Elf:2)
  A tengu reaver (Vaults:5)
  A vault warden (Vaults:5)
  A deep elf elementalist (Elf:3)
  A stone giant (Depths:2)
  A deep elf annihilator (Elf:3)
  A yaktaur captain (Vaults:5)
  A merfolk impaler (Shoals:4)
  A satyr (Shoals:4)
  A centaur warrior (Vaults:1)
  2 deep elf archers
  2 orc knights
  4 fauns
  A cyclops (Vaults:2)
  2 salamanders (Vaults:3)
  A vault sentinel (Vaults:1)
  A yaktaur (Vaults:1)
  A fire elemental (Elf:1)
  A tarantella (Spider:2)
  3 orc warriors (Orc:2)
  An ogre (Depths:1)
  4 centaurs
  A giant frog (Lair:7)
  A scorpion (Spider:2)
  A white imp (Depths:1)
  8 orcs
  A bush (Lair:8)
  37 fungi
  20 plants
102 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2201 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | sage1234 the Vampire Berserker began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 17/17 MP: 1/1
   560 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 23/23 MP: 2/2
  1505 | D:2      | You fall through a shaft for 2 floors!
  1512 | D:4      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 11/28 MP: 3/3
  1861 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
  1867 | D:4      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 25/34 MP: 4/4
  1917 | D:4      | Noticed a giant frog
  1924 | D:4      | Noticed Dowan
  1935 | D:4      | Killed a giant frog
  1935 | D:4      | Reached skill level 2 in Stealth
  1935 | D:4      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 25/39 MP: 5/5
  2257 | D:4      | Reached skill level 3 in Stealth
  2283 | D:4      | Noticed Duvessa
  2499 | D:4      | Reached ** piety under Trog
  2677 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  2686 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  2686 | D:4      | Reached skill level 4 in Stealth
  2686 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 27/46 MP: 6/6
  2802 | D:4      | Found an oddly glowing altar of Pakellas.
  2821 | D:4      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  3045 | D:4      | Killed Dowan
  3206 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 7/51 MP: 7/7
  3229 | D:3      | Killed Duvessa
  3229 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
  3620 | D:2      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  3795 | D:2      | Reached *** piety under Trog
  4689 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4762 | D:5      | Reached skill level 6 in Stealth
  4772 | D:5      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  4959 | D:5      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  5292 | D:6      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 40/58 MP: 8/8
  5401 | D:6      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  5401 | D:6      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  5442 | D:6      | Reached **** piety under Trog
  5471 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Stealth
  5544 | D:6      | Got a dazzling mace
  5545 | D:6      | Identified the cursed +1 mace of Currency {venom, rF+ rC+ Dex-3} (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
  5751 | D:6      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  5878 | D:6      | Reached skill level 8 in Stealth
  6118 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Short Blades
  6403 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 37/66 MP: 9/9
  6562 | D:6      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  6563 | D:6      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  6606 | D:6      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  7330 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  7813 | D:7      | Reached skill level 9 in Stealth
  7964 | D:7      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  8179 | D:7      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  8320 | D:8      | Noticed Erolcha
  8345 | D:8      | Killed Erolcha
  8384 | D:8      | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth
  8384 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 74/76 MP: 10/10
  8755 | D:8      | Noticed Erica
  8801 | D:8      | Killed Erica
  9574 | D:8      | Reached ***** piety under Trog
 11223 | D:9      | Reached skill level 11 in Stealth
 11606 | D:9      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
 12122 | D:9      | Got a clouded sapphire amulet
 12126 | D:9      | Identified the amulet of Ubaj {Reflect rC+ Int+4 SH+3} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
 12251 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
 12251 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 12289 | D:10     | Noticed Stanimator's ghost (journeyman GrEE)
 12704 | D:10     | Noticed Nergalle
 13459 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 26/83 MP: 11/11
 13739 | D:10     | Killed Nergalle
 13806 | D:10     | Noticed an unseen horror
 13811 | D:10     | Killed an unseen horror
 13829 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 13856 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 14127 | D:10     | Reached skill level 12 in Stealth
 14336 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 14346 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 14549 | D:10     | Noticed a white ugly thing
 14728 | D:10     | Killed Stanimator's ghost
 14822 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 14851 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 15100 | D:10     | Paralysed by a wasp for 2 turns
 15128 | D:10     | Killed a white ugly thing
 15363 | D:10     | Noticed an unseen horror
 15390 | D:10     | Killed an unseen horror
 15550 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 15967 | D:10     | Reached skill level 13 in Stealth
 16459 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 16475 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 16727 | D:11     | Noticed a queen ant
 17132 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 17151 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 17357 | D:10     | Received a gift from Trog
 17595 | D:10     | Killed a queen ant
 17595 | D:10     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 41/96 MP: 4/12
 18500 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 18728 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 18763 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 14 in Stealth
 18797 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 19273 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 21352 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 15 in Stealth
 21590 | Lair:3   | Noticed a six-headed hydra
 21613 | Lair:3   | Killed a six-headed hydra
 22180 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 106/106 MP: 4/13
 22712 | Lair:4   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 23852 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 16 in Stealth
 24094 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 24449 | Lair:5   | Found a staircase to the Shoals.
 24609 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
 25205 | Lair:6   | Got a smoking leather armour
 25216 | Lair:6   | Identified the +2 leather armour of the Spider Nest {+Blink rElec rF- SInv} (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 25479 | Lair:7   | Noticed Nessos
 25485 | Lair:7   | Killed Nessos
 25991 | Lair:7   | Reached ****** piety under Trog
 26434 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 116/116 MP: 5/16
 26483 | Lair:7   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 26483 | Lair:7   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 26847 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 26998 | Lair:7   | Received a gift from Trog
 27436 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 17 in Stealth
 28624 | Lair:8   | Got a pair of twisted boots
 28635 | Lair:8   | Identified the cursed +0 pair of boots "Uber" {rC+ Int+3} (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)
 28687 | Lair:8   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 28898 | Lair:8   | Noticed Rupert
 28915 | Lair:8   | Killed Rupert
 29776 | Lair:8   | Found a gateway to Hell.
 29817 | Lair:8   | Got a transparent falchion
 29926 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 30194 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 18 in Stealth
 30457 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 30769 | D:12     | Got a translucent jade ring
 30772 | D:12     | Identified the ring of Ekinen {SustAt rElec Str+4} (You found it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
 30926 | D:12     | Found a runed door.
 30984 | D:12     | Reached XP level 15. HP: 123/123 MP: 6/18
 31347 | D:12     | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 31429 | D:12     | Found a runed door.
 31839 | D:12     | Noticed Kirke
 31860 | D:12     | Killed Kirke
 32091 | D:12     | Received a gift from Trog
 32613 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 32659 | D:13     | Found Bakh's Gadget Boutique.
 33406 | D:14     | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 33555 | D:14     | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 33676 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 33921 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 33974 | D:15     | Found Goc Ut Timm's Magic Scroll Shoppe.
 34143 | D:15     | Bought a scroll of magic mapping for 45 gold pieces
 34143 | D:15     | Bought a scroll of recharging for 123 gold pieces
 34143 | D:15     | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 34143 | D:15     | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 97 gold pieces
 34143 | D:15     | Bought a scroll of magic mapping for 45 gold pieces
 34143 | D:15     | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 34143 | D:15     | Bought a scroll of teleportation for 39 gold pieces
 34143 | D:15     | Bought a scroll of identify for 26 gold pieces
 34535 | D:15     | Received a gift from Trog
 34535 | D:15     | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 35009 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 35261 | Orc:2    | Entered Level 2 of the Orcish Mines
 35265 | Orc:2    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 36031 | Orc:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 36318 | Orc:2    | Reached XP level 16. HP: 141/141 MP: 6/19
 36401 | Orc:2    | Found Oresaut's Food Boutique.
 36401 | Orc:2    | Found Emuvedua's Antique Armour Shoppe.
 36403 | Orc:2    | Found Jucis's Magic Scroll Emporium.
 36405 | Orc:2    | Found Fiatyfam's Armour Shop.
 36430 | Orc:2    | Bought the +2 pair of gloves of Hitonu {MR+ MP-9 Dex+2} for 469 gold pieces
 36441 | Orc:2    | Bought the +2 robe of vines {NoDeviceHeal Regen+7} for 265 gold pieces
 36459 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 832 gold pieces
 36461 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 32 gold pieces
 36461 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of enchant weapon for 120 gold pieces
 36461 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of fear for 56 gold pieces
 36461 | Orc:2    | Bought a scroll of identify for 32 gold pieces
 36714 | Orc:1    | Noticed Snorg
 36731 | Orc:2    | Killed Snorg
 37011 | Orc:1    | Reached skill level 15 in Short Blades
 37332 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 37490 | Spider:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 38617 | Spider:2 | Got a coiled lapis lazuli ring
 38619 | Spider:2 | Identified the ring "Osesiargh" {rPois rC++ Str-5} (You found it on level 2 of the Spider Nest)
 39032 | Spider:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 39767 | Spider:3 | Noticed Arachne
 39905 | Spider:3 | Killed Arachne
 40564 | Spider:3 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 147/147 MP: 3/20
 40571 | Spider:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 40823 | Spider:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Spider Nest
 41546 | Spider:4 | Reached skill level 19 in Stealth
 41899 | Spider:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 42866 | Spider:4 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
 43030 | Shoals:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Shoals
 43409 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 44544 | Shoals:2 | Noticed Nikola
 44583 | Shoals:2 | Killed Nikola
 44931 | Shoals:3 | Noticed Aizul
 45012 | Shoals:2 | Killed Aizul
 45070 | Lair:5   | Got a scorched dagger {god gift}
 45071 | Lair:5   | Identified the +10 dagger "Hellblazer" {speed, rPois Dex+2} (Trog gifted it to you on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 45147 | Shoals:3 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 156/156 MP: 14/23
 45306 | Shoals:3 | Reached skill level 20 in Stealth
 45512 | Shoals:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 45801 | Shoals:3 | Noticed Polyphemus
 46430 | Shoals:4 | Entered Level 4 of the Shoals
 46443 | Shoals:4 | Noticed Ilsuiw
 46671 | Shoals:4 | Found Rolyf's Armour Boutique.
 46844 | Shoals:4 | Got a vibrating glass ring
 46847 | Shoals:4 | Identified the ring "Geodi" {*Tele rElec MR- Str+3 Int+5} (You found it on level 4 of the Shoals)
 46988 | Shoals:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 46998 | Shoals:4 | Noticed Donald
 47104 | Shoals:3 | Killed Donald
 47422 | Shoals:4 | Killed Ilsuiw
 47669 | Shoals:4 | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 47755 | Shoals:4 | Found Siran's Superlative Supplies.
 48194 | Shoals:4 | Got a barnacled rune of Zot
 48618 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 48867 | Elf:1    | Reached XP level 19. HP: 154/163 MP: 16/25
 49249 | Elf:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 49536 | Elf:1    | Reached skill level 21 in Stealth
 49671 | Elf:1    | Noticed a Tzitzimitl
 49864 | Elf:1    | Noticed Azrael
 49899 | Elf:1    | Killed Azrael
 50426 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 50528 | Elf:2    | Found Qougum's General Store.
 50532 | Elf:2    | Bought 2 scrolls of teleportation for 78 gold pieces
 50744 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 50744 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 50759 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 51294 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 51583 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 51744 | Elf:3    | Noticed Mara
 51751 | Elf:3    | Killed Mara
 51769 | Elf:3    | Noticed a Tzitzimitl
 52600 | Elf:2    | Got a steaming ruby amulet
 52964 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 52964 | Elf:3    | Reached XP level 20. HP: 166/172 MP: 6/27
 53033 | Elf:3    | Got a twitching wooden ring
 53041 | Elf:2    | Identified the ring of Gafol {rElec rF+ Str-4 SInv} (You took it off a deep elf demonologist on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 53042 | Elf:2    | Identified the amulet of Wemieq {Regen+ Dex+4 Slay+3 SInv} (You found it on level 2 of the Elven Halls)
 53299 | Elf:3    | Got a slimy golden amulet
 53300 | Elf:3    | Identified the amulet of Teyrupp {Faith Stlth+} (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 53326 | Elf:3    | Got a faintly glowing turquoise ring
 53354 | Elf:3    | Identified the ring of Levity {+Fly MR+ Str+3} (You took it off a deep elf annihilator on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 53384 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 53385 | Elf:3    | Got a transparent rapier {god gift}
 53386 | Elf:3    | Identified the +5 rapier of Valuable Assets {vamp, rPois Dex+4} (Trog gifted it to you on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 53697 | Depths:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Depths
 53821 | Depths:1 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
 54138 | Depths:1 | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 54536 | Shoals:3 | Killed Polyphemus
 54572 | Shoals:4 | Bought a manual of Stealth for 1545 gold pieces
 54902 | Depths:1 | Found a one-way gate to the infinite horrors of the Abyss.
 55249 | Depths:1 | Noticed Norris
 55280 | Depths:1 | Killed Norris
 55376 | Depths:1 | Reached skill level 22 in Stealth
 56513 | Depths:2 | Reached skill level 23 in Stealth
 56712 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 57010 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 57094 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 57440 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 24 in Stealth
 57804 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 58120 | Vaults:1 | Reached skill level 25 in Stealth
 58120 | Vaults:1 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 179/179 MP: 19/28
 58973 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 58988 | Vaults:2 | Found Raug Jiq's Magic Scroll Emporium.
 59096 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 26 in Stealth
 59192 | Vaults:2 | Bought a scroll of blinking for 75 gold pieces
 59192 | Vaults:2 | Bought a scroll of recharging for 95 gold pieces
 59192 | Vaults:2 | Bought a scroll of identify for 20 gold pieces
 59459 | Vaults:2 | Found Juamnas's Jewellery Shoppe.
 60152 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 60271 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 61425 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 61879 | Vaults:3 | Noticed Wiglaf
 61886 | Vaults:3 | Killed Wiglaf
 61886 | Vaults:3 | Reached skill level 27 in Stealth
 61889 | Vaults:3 | Noticed Blomdor's ghost (veteran TeBe)
 61939 | Vaults:3 | Killed Blomdor's ghost
 62246 | Vaults:3 | Found Imyaruv's General Store.
 62257 | Vaults:3 | Bought a scroll of summoning for 123 gold pieces
 62257 | Vaults:3 | Bought a potion of haste for 130 gold pieces
 62257 | Vaults:3 | Bought a wand of digging (12/24) for 416 gold pieces
 62877 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 63110 | Vaults:4 | Reached XP level 22. HP: 189/189 MP: 20/29
 64536 | Vaults:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Vaults
 64536 | Vaults:5 | Noticed a golden dragon
 64612 | Vaults:5 | Identified a +2 rod of shadows (14/14) (You took it off a deep elf demonologist on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 64651 | Vaults:5 | HP: 8/190 [vault warden/great sword of holy wrath (51)]
 64653 | Vaults:5 | HP: 2/190 [sphinx/divine providence (12)]
 64662 | Vaults:5 | HP: 8/190 [tengu reaver/encrusted trident {freeze} (18)]
 64669 | Vaults:5 | Noticed a golden dragon
 65470 | Vaults:5 | Noticed a golden dragon
 65546 | Vaults:5 | Killed a golden dragon
 66269 | Vaults:5 | Noticed an ancient lich
 66911 | Vaults:5 | HP: 9/192 [tengu reaver/encrusted trident {freeze} (1)]
 66915 | Vaults:5 | Killed from afar by a titan

Vault maps used:
D:1:      nicolae_arrival_somewhat_less_tricky_arrival,
          minmay_gold_behind_fungi, st_stairs_3,
          corexii_item_surrounded_by_moat, corexii_hall_statues_s,
          minmay_hedge_maze, roderic_digamma_sauvastika,
          minmay_tree_intersection
D:2:      marbit_many_paths, first_bread
D:4:      minitemple, uniq_duvessa
D:5:      minmay_temple_entry_statues, grunt_dithmenos_smoke
D:6:      grunt_temple_overflow_opulence, elyvilon_altar_1
D:7:      kennysheep_windowed_halls, kennysheep_little_box, grunt_ogre_cave,
          st_stairs_3
D:8:      uniq_erica, uniq_erolcha
D:9:      kennysheep_ambush_hall, hangedman_ru_absence,
          hangedman_decor_peaks_small
D:10:     orc_0_dummy, minivault_4, uniq_nergalle
D:11:     dpeg_oklobed_lair, lab_entry_generic, minmay_another_anthill
D:12:     lemuel_troll_bridge, uniq_kirke
D:13:     david_vaults_4, serial_shops, shop_fountains,
          kennysheep_generic_room_15
D:14:     minmay_misc_feat_diagonals, enter_trove_2
D:15:     hangedman_depths_entry_try_elsewhere_first, serial_shops, shop
Lair:2:   disabler_island, grunt_megastairs_2
Lair:3:   kennysheep_basilisk_garden
Lair:4:   spider_nest_entry_a, wad_woods_03, grunt_megastairs_4
Lair:5:   elwin_shoals_entry_rooms, serial_bayou_shore_a
Lair:6:   lemuel_fruit_tree
Lair:7:   dpeg_slime_entry_enclosed_altar, serial_forest,
          infiniplex_forest_corner_2, infiniplex_forest_straight_3,
          infiniplex_forest_lined_room_2, infiniplex_forest_lined_3_way,
          infiniplex_forest_straight_5, grunt_forest_small_clearing_treed,
          grunt_megastairs_1, serial_bayou_shore_b, uniq_nessos
Lair:8:   evil_forest, st_stairs_9, uniq_rupert
Shoals:2: uniq_nikola
Shoals:3: uniq_aizul, uniq_polyphemus
Shoals:4: shoals_end_simple, shoal_ilsuiw, serial_shops, shop,
          nicolae_shoals_circle_sea_wall, nicolae_alphabet_shops, uniq_donald
Spider:1: spiders_nest_scorpion_pit, special_room
Spider:2: nicolae_spider_corner, guppyfry_wasp_nest
Spider:3: uniq_arachne
Spider:4: grunt_spider_rune_island
Orc:1:    uniq_snorg
Orc:2:    st_orc_rangers
Elf:1:    orc_legates, uniq_azrael
Elf:2:    serial_shops, shop
Elf:3:    minmay_elf_hall_dome, basic_stair_grate_trap, uniq_mara
Vaults:1: nicolae_vaults_angled_halls, hangedman_vaults_unwind,
          nicolae_vaults_little_squares_4, nicolae_vaults_stairing_the_circle,
          nicolae_vaults_puzzle_piece, grunt_vaults_diagonal, v_alt_pattern_5,
          v_rooms_6, ontoclasm_vaults_idyll, serial_ice_g, vaults_room_grid,
          nicolae_vaults_display_case
Vaults:2: st_cross, ontoclasm_vaults_ligature, v_misc_26,
          nicolae_vaults_little_squares_4, vaults_dpeg_ring,
          hangedman_vaults_variations, ontoclasm_vaults_chip,
          nicolae_vaults_puzzle_piece, vaults_room_mumra_shop_pool,
          hangedman_vaults_slice, nicolae_vaults_little_squares_6,
          hangedman_vaults_maws, serial_shops, shop
Vaults:3: ontoclasm_vaults_ring_square, hangedman_vaults_hat, v_misc_2,
          hangedman_vaults_stretched_pinwheel, nicolae_vaults_what_the_h,
          vaults_mumra_chevron, hangedman_vaults_capsules,
          hangedman_vaults_stagger, ontoclasm_vaults_eye, grunt_vaults_focal,
          vaults_dpeg_cross, vaults_room_pool, vaults_room_semicircle,
          serial_shops, nicolae_shop_statue_plus, uniq_wiglaf
Vaults:4: hangedman_vaults_river_flow, v_pattern_2, vaults_room_door_ring,
          ontoclasm_vaults_hangar, v_misc_9, grunt_vaults_hallway_long,
          ontoclasm_vaults_gateway, nicolae_vaults_border_crossing,
          nicolae_vaults_shelves_hall
Depths:1: grunt_hell_entry_demonic_statue, abyss_entry,
          okawaru_ov_weapons_minmay, serial_bayou_lake_a, uniq_norris
Depths:2: minmay_cut_squares, minmay_fountain_box, hell_entry

Skill      XL: |  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 |
---------------+-------------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Short Blades   |  4     5  6  7     9 10 11 13          14    19 20    21       22 | 22.2
Stealth        |           2  4     6  8 10 11 13 15 16 18       19 20 21 25 27    | 27.0
Fighting       |                    3  4  5  6  9 11 12 13 17       18       19 20 | 20.5
Dodging        |                    3  4  6  7  9 10 11 12    13 14 15 16       17 | 17.3
Armour         |                                      3  5           7  8     9    |  9.7
Evocations     |                                      3  4  5     7  8 10          | 10.2
Shields        |                                            3  4          11 13    | 13.4

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Short sword       |    99 |   102 |   518 |   575 |       |       |       |       ||  1294
       Dagger            |       |       |       |   596 |       |  1422 |  3736 |  1405 ||  7159
       Quick blade       |       |       |       |   874 |  3164 |  2859 |  1064 |   212 ||  8173
       Rapier            |       |       |       |       |       |       |    31 |       ||    31
Invok: Berserk           |     1 |     4 |     6 |    12 |    19 |    13 |     6 |       ||    61
       Trog's Hand       |       |     2 |     2 |     2 |    10 |    21 |     8 |    12 ||    57
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |     1 |     2 |     3 |     3 |     3 |     1 ||    13
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |       |     4 |     2 |    10 |    16 |    14 ||    46
Evoke: Deck              |       |       |       |     1 |     3 |     1 |       |     4 ||     9
       Wand              |       |       |       |     5 |    10 |    45 |     8 |    18 ||    86
       Box of beasts     |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    12 ||    12
       Rod               |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Fan of gales      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
  Use: Potion            |     3 |     9 |     3 |    21 |    30 |    37 |    79 |    31 ||   213
       Scroll            |       |    10 |     6 |    12 |    27 |    20 |    19 |    23 ||   117
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |     5 |    27 |    42 |   113 |    55 |    78 |     8 ||   328
       Distracted        |       |       |     2 |     7 |     6 |    13 |    29 |     7 ||    64
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       ||     2
       Confused          |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       ||     2
  Eat: Corpse            |     5 |     8 |    22 |    45 |    58 |    32 |       |       ||   170

Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 12th April 2016, 17:51

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

From learndb:

  Code:
hyperelliptic Lair -> D:12 -> Orc -> D:15 -> S:3 -> maybe other S:3 -> get rune -> Vaults:4 -> maybe get second rune -> Depths:5 -> get three runes -> Zot


Should probably have done depths before vaults 5 - it's much harder than the rest of the vaults.

Can't speak for others, but my technique for vaults 5 is stand on downstairs on vaults 4, buff up , cast a tele, go down the downstairs (or better take an emergency hatch), read ?MM and following the tele run (or cblink) to wherever will give you the greatest chance of being able to give everyone the slip - e.g. checkerboard vaults. Then gradually clear around it nearest the corners first, luring enemies in one at a time. Then do the outermost passages, then gradually push into the middle. Do whatever you can to avoid / 1 shot convokers and sentinels.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 12th April 2016, 17:54

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

Vaults:5 is usually done after Depths, if at all. If you're familiar with the Abyss, it's much easier to get the abyssal rune on a vampire with 27 stealth: you turn into a bat and fly away from just about everything until you find a rune vault on the third floor. That place is known for killing inexperienced players though.
Regarding your skilling, 22.2 in short blades is definitely overkill: you could've transitioned into long blades for better DPS, trained more Dodging or even picked up Throwing for needle gifts and needlestabbing.

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Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 12th April 2016, 17:58

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

Thank you. I am afraid of abyss and need to get over that.

Switching to long blades is a great idea I haven't considered and it could open up a whole new selection of weapons.

Thank you.


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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 12th April 2016, 20:52

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

I feel like Abyss is so easy that it's almost always my third rune whenever I get that far. Just try to walk away from everything and if you can't, teleport. Once you're on the third floor, when the terrain looks non-random that's usually the rune vault, so explore that, otherwise keep waling. I'm sure that overconfidence will bite me in the pants soon enough, but in my expreeince the Abyss has been anti-climactic when I go there at XL 23 or so. Getting banshed earlier is exciting, but walking and teleporting work then, too.
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Post Tuesday, 12th April 2016, 21:03

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

In abyss the 'really dangerous situations' feel more unfair than the ones in vaults, and you often can't escape immediately (due to teleport delay). Because of this I feel that vaults is usually a safer 3rd rune, so long as you know what you are doing. Zargon's advice is good; I almost always tele before or after killing the landing party, which you can immo or even stairdance a surprising amount of the time. Definitely do depths before going for your third rune.

In your case (stealthy character with low damage output) it may have been 'right' to do abyss instead.

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Post Wednesday, 13th April 2016, 13:12

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

Silver rune should be your last rune
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Barkeep

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Post Wednesday, 13th April 2016, 15:06

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

Other than the "do V:5 later or Abyss instead" advice (good advice!), I'd recommend:

* Have a way to do damage at range. You had two Rods of Shadows, which are really good -- if you've trained enough Evocations to get good monsters from them. Under Trog, choosing a launcher or throwing is usually pretty good too.
* Training stealth to 27 is way too much stealth, unless you're in extended or doing some kind of challenge condition. You would have had enough XP to train a lot of evocations or launchers or a stronger class of weapon if you had less stealth.
* If you didn't enter V:5 with max Trog piety, do that next time. Trog's panic buttons are top-notch, and Brothers in Arms in particular is stronger with more piety. "Call some Bros and book it" is good versus pretty much everything in the game.
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Post Wednesday, 13th April 2016, 15:17

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

njvack wrote:Under Trog, choosing a launcher or throwing is usually pretty good too.


Yeah, just take Throwing. Never look back.

I'll second this whole post wholeheartedly though, and lots of good advice in this thread in general. V:5 is exceptionally dangerous. I love going there because I think it's way more exciting and interesting than Abyss (it's a strong contender for my favourite level in the game), so I typically shoot for silver rune, but as many people have mentioned abyssal is very frequently safer.

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Post Wednesday, 13th April 2016, 19:53

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

njvack wrote:Other than the "do V:5 later or Abyss instead" advice (good advice!)
"Do Abyss instead" is horrible advice
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 13th April 2016, 21:19

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

njvack wrote:Training stealth to 27 is way too much stealth, unless you're in extended or doing some kind of challenge condition. You would have had enough XP to train a lot of evocations or launchers or a stronger class of weapon if you had less stealth.

For example, with Vp apts, Stealth from 20 to 27 is about the same as Evo from 10.2 to 16 or Throwing from 0 to 12.6. Leaving Short Blades to about 17.5 would have been equal as well.

(I'm a huge fan of Stealth but the OP really should have had Throwing with Trog...)
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Post Thursday, 14th April 2016, 18:57

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

Slime is a decent alternative to vaults:5 for a decent number of characters (a considerably better choice than abyss at any rate)
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Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2016, 20:03

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

duvessa wrote:"Do Abyss instead" is horrible advice

Why? Especially as a Vp with 27 stealth, "walk away from everything until you get to Abyss:3, then walk away from everything until you have the rune, then walk away from everything until you leave" sounds pretty straightforward? I guess you'd run out of blood and Trog piety after a while...
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 15th April 2016, 00:59

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

Because there are like 10 runes that are less dangerous to get
vaults:5 and lair branches including slime are all much more predictable and safer than abyss for any character that isn't already worshipping lugonu

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Abyss Ambulator

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Post Friday, 15th April 2016, 01:14

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

Wear heavier armor. Don't train stealth. Don't use short blades on a character that is not a hex/needle stabber. Your character was considerably worse at XL22 than it needed to be because you got 27 stealth.
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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 15th April 2016, 01:47

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

duvessa wrote:Because there are like 10 runes that are less dangerous to get
vaults:5 and lair branches including slime are all much more predictable and safer than abyss for any character that isn't already worshipping lugonu


Yeah, thank you. I was really dubious about everyone saying do abyss over vaults but I thought maybe it's just 'cause I didn't know enough?

Although it's a lot less true in .17 or below when you could still ring teleport. But in trunk I won't even look at the abyss (on purpose) unless I'm level 27 any more.

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Post Friday, 15th April 2016, 02:12

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

I find the Abyss pretty straightforward with lots of stealth. I guess you need to know which monsters to try really hard to run from (most of the Abyss special monsters, especially starcursed masses; bone dragons; ancient liches; 1s; 2s; maybe 3s; etc) and which to mostly avoid (the rest, to stay quiet).
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Friday, 15th April 2016, 04:23

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

personaly I like reading ?tele before going down the stairs into V:5 and then taking the floor on a little at a time.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 15th April 2016, 05:10

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

My Vaults:5 guide:
- start by using whatever buffs you want before entering v:5, one of these buffs should be haste
- my first action on v:5 is always reading a scroll of magic mapping
- don't stay on the stairs, unless maybe you are casting shatter
- don't make a lot of noise (immolation is a dumb idea, the "vault guard" monster is about as strong as an orc knight so it's not a big deal if they follow you), or if you do make noise, move to a new position afterwards. Not making the noise at all is better than making noise and then moving. Yes, most characters need to make some noise to kill things, but not a lot.
- DON'T STAY ON THE STAIRS, the stairs are where every monster on the level will converge when they wake up. It is not a stretch to say that the stairs are actually the worst place to be on v:5, this is why random teleporting upon entering is not a terrible strategy like it would be on normal levels. If you want to stair dance a couple of times to kill most of the vault guards, sure, that's probably fine, but go away from the stairs afterwards.
- The best terrain is almost always in one of the quadrants, not along the perimeter. You want to make it slow for monsters to reach you.
- Hasting and running is OP.

Here are some examples of quadrants with really good terrain:
  Code:
NAME:   vaults_end_mu_not_diamond
TAGS:   vaults_end_quadrant unrand
SUBST:  9 = 8 9 *:20
: vaults_end_loot(_G)
: vaults_end_rune(_G)
MAP
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 ..x9x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.
x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x9x.x
xx.x.x.x.x9x.x.x9x.x.x.x.xx
x.x.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.x.x
xx9xxxxxxxxx.x.xxxxxxxxx.xx
x.x.xxxxxxxx...xxxxxxxx.x.x
xx.xxxxxxx...9...xxxxxxx9xx
x.x.xxxxx.........xxxxx.x.x
xx.xxxxx...|$|$|...xxxxx.xx
x9x.x.x....$***$....x.x.x.x
xx.x.x.x.9.|*O*|.9.x.x.x.xx
x.x.x.x....$***$....x.x.x9x
xx.xxxxx...|$|$|...xxxxx.xx
x.x.xxxxx.........xxxxx.x.x
xx.xxxxxxx...9...xxxxxxx.xx
x.x.xxxxxxxx...xxxxxxxx.x.x
xx9xxxxxxxxx.x.xxxxxxxxx9xx
x.x.xxxxxxxxx.xxxxxxxxx.x.x
xx.x.x.x.x9x.x.x9x.x.x.x.xx
x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x
 ..x9x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x.x9x..
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ENDMAP
Full of squares where only 4 other squares will be in LOS, making it very easy to reposition and fight one monster at a time, and with very little risk of getting meaningfully cornered.
  Code:
NAME:    vaults_end_minmay_connected_circles
TAGS:    vaults_end_quadrant_prize unrand
SUBST:   9 = 8 9 .:20
NSUBST:  * = 1:O / *:*
: vaults_end_loot(_G)
: vaults_end_rune(_G)
MAP
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 x.9.xxxxxx*9xxxxxxxxxxxx
x.....xxxx9..*xxxxxxxxxx.xx
x9.$.9xxxx*..9xxxxxxxxx.xxx
x.....xxx.x9*xxxxxxxxx.xxxx
xx.9.xxx.xxxx.xxx.9.x.xxxxx
xxx.xxx.xx$9xx.x.....xxxxxx
xxxx.x.xx$*$9xx.9.$.9xxxxxx
xxx.9.xxx9$*$xxx.....xxxxxx
xx.$.$.x.x9$*$xxx.9.x.xxxxx
xx9.$.9.xxxx$*$xxx.xxx.xxxx
xx.$.$.x.xxxx$x.x.xxxxx*9xx
xxx.9.xxx.xxxxxx.xxxxx9..*x
xxxxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxxxx.*..9x
xxx9*.*xxxx*9x.xxxxx.xx9*xx
xx.*.*.*xx9..*xxxxx.xxxxxxx
x........x*..9xxxx.xxx.9xxx
x.......9xx9*xx*9*xxx.$.9xx
x9.......x.xxx*.*.*xx9...xx
x.........xxxx9*.*9x.x9..xx
x.......xxxxxx*.*.*.xxx...x
 x....9xxxxxxxx*9*xxxxxx.x
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ENDMAP
By sitting in one of the circles, you can easily use the diagonal lines to keep at most one monster in LOS at a time.
Here are some without any good terrain:
  Code:
NAME:   vaults_end_mu_clover
TAGS:   vaults_end_quadrant unrand
SUBST:  9 = 8 9 .:20
NSUBST: ? = 1:O / *:*
NSUBST: " = 1:. / *:x
: vaults_end_loot(_G)
: vaults_end_rune(_G)
MAP
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 ........................
x.........................x
x..xxxxxxxxx999xxxxxxxxx..x
x..x?**....x...x....**?x..x
x..x**..9..x...x..9..**x..x
x..x*..9...x...x...9..*x..x
x..x..9....xx"xx....9..x..x
x..x...................x..x
x..xxxxxxxx.....xxxxxxxx..x
x..9......x.....x......9..x
x..9......"....."......9..x
x..9......x.....x......9..x
x..xxxxxxxx.....xxxxxxxx..x
x..x...................x..x
x..x..9....xx"xx....9..x..x
x..x*..9...x...x...9..*x..x
x..x**..9..x...x..9..**x..x
x..x?**....x...x....**?x..x
x..xxxxxxxxx999xxxxxxxxx..x
x.........................x
 .........................
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ENDMAP
Every spot inside the vault not only lets several monsters get to you at once, but corners you.
  Code:
NAME:    vaults_end_dpeg_shops1
TAGS:    vaults_end_quadrant vaults_end_quadrant_mall unrand
KFEAT:   S = any shop
: if crawl.one_chance_in(4) then
SUBST:   A = +, a = ., CD = x
: else
SHUFFLE: CD
SUBST:   C = ., DAa = x
: end
SUBST:   9 = 8 9 .:20
: vaults_end_loot(_G)
: vaults_end_rune(_G)
MAP
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 ..xxxxxxxxxx.....xxxx...
x...xxxxx.................x
xx........................x
xxx......................xx
xxxx.....................xx
xxxx.....................xx
xxx......9xxxxxxx........xx
xx......9xxxxxxxxx.......xx
xx......xxx$999$xxx.......x
xx......xC.9$$$9.xx.......x
x.......CC.9$S$9Oxx.......x
x.......xC.9$$$9.xx......xx
x.......xAa$999$xxx......xx
xx.......xAxDDDxxx9......xx
xx........xxxDxxx9......xxx
xx.....................xxxx
xx.....................xxxx
xx......................xxx
x........................xx
x.................xxxxx...x
 ....xxxx.....xxxxxxxxxx..
  xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
ENDMAP
Barely better than having no walls at all.

There are only like 8 quadrants total without any good terrain, out of like 70; I'm not going to try to compute the chances of getting 4 of those quadrants, because it's complicated by there being multiple kinds of quadrants. I'm content with just saying it's very unlikely to happen. If 3 or fewer of the 4 quadrants have bad terrain then it's not really a big deal because you started by reading mapping so you can just go to the one with good terrain!

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Slime Squisher

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Post Friday, 15th April 2016, 11:19

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

Reptisaurus wrote:Yeah, thank you. I was really dubious about everyone saying do abyss over vaults but I thought maybe it's just 'cause I didn't know enough?

Although it's a lot less true in .17 or below when you could still ring teleport. But in trunk I won't even look at the abyss (on purpose) unless I'm level 27 any more.

I'm pretty sure minmay has already reached the state of a perfect optimal player™ (the ideal gas of Crawl), at which the chance of dying on a floor full of baddies is lower than the possibility of four hostile executioners spawning next to you at Abyss:1—3. Or however else you're supposed to die there as an uncannily stealthy character with access to 15 speed (and presumably some hastes and teles). It's not the same comparison for us, mere mortals.

Nice guide though.
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Barkeep

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Post Friday, 15th April 2016, 14:19

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

It is a nice guide -- thanks duvessa.

And remember that if the rune is in a quadrant with bad terrain, you should bring baddies to a quadrant with good terrain and kill them there.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 15th April 2016, 15:14

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

I know people typically say it's a bad idea, but on my tougher characters I usually stairdance vault 5 to death for the most part.
I also find on high stealth characters the abyss works well for a 3rd rune, just teleport early when things start looking bad.

I do vault 5 after finishing depths, and typically approach it like this:
Buff up on vault 4 stairs, for the first entry I won't usually use consumables, but any castable buffs are used here.
Go down into vault 5, and look around. Are there wardens in LOS?
If I don't see wardens, I'll use any penetrating ranged abilities I have, if I do have any, and try to do as much damage as possible to whatever is the most threatening thing I can hit from the stairs.
After every turn, check if there are wardens in LOS.
Once some guards close in on me, I'll drag them upstairs and kill them there.
I repeat this process until either there is nothing in LOS from the staircase, or a warden has appeared.
If a warden does show up while I'm downstairs, I go up immediately.
If I go downstairs and a warden is already in LOS, I go up if possible, but it might not be.
Either way, if there are still lots of enemies around the V5 entryway, and there are wardens, I teleport away. Depending on how dangerous my landing area is, I buff up using consumables. If it's really dangerous I teleport again.
From here, I want to get into one of the quadrants, preferably one with lots of walls to hide behind, and kill off enemies as they come. If it gets out of hand, teleport.
My goal in these scenarios is to clear what's around the quadrant I'm hiding in so I can rest up, then make my way back to the staircase, which will have thinned out.

This method only works on reasonably tough characters who can handle being surrounded by vault guards for a few turns. Otherwise I'll pretty much do exactly what Duvessa said.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Saturday, 16th April 2016, 02:18

Re: Death in Vaults:5, looking for advice

The monster frequency and danger level of V:5 is like 90% of the time higher than of Abyss. The drawback of Abyss being you can't escape that easily. (walk away until your tp works? Also carry wand of digging so that you're not prevented from walking away) But on V:5 you can't escape easily either because going back to the stairs carries a high risk and teleporting has a high risk too. And running around the outside can result in a very bad situation too. So I think doing Abyss is often a good idea.

By the way I really don't get the argument sometimes made in other threads that "walls in Abyss sometimes move therefore you literally cannot control your los in any way". That's probably a misrepresentation of the argument but it's close. I think that walls moving in the Abyss are only a minor problem. It makes you reposition across a few tiles sometimes. So what?

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