The Tavern

Hey all, recently i have started to play this awesome roguelike game. In the past i have played Adom, and before that on the Amiga, both Hack and Larn.

I am still learning a lot in this game, and do not understand everything so far. I have tried some melee characters to learn the very basics, and am now trying out wizards. Though i can survive till level 4-5, i do have some questions though

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I am trying out a human wizard, as this is the combo with the most possibilities? All schools level equally etc. ( i hope this is right lol).

Here are my questions:
- what armour should i use? Just a robe, or can i use leather etc without any penalties or so
- should i use a shield?
- should i level a melee or ranged weapon skill, and if yes, which one is good for a wizard?
- what god should i choose?

Thanks for the advice

.

greets,

speciesxx

a human wizard is fine. specialization pays off in crawl, but you're just figuring things out. if you want to try out something more specific, like a conjurer, you can look at the aptitudes screen (? and %, or just % if you're on the character selection screen). you can also try high elves, deep elves, kenku, etc. feel free to experiment.

(1) stick with a robe, especially early on. later you can use leather armour if you find something nice (like one with an elemental resistance), but don't use anything heavier.
(2) if you find a buckler, use it. shields and larger shields will cripple your spell success, so skip them. (bucklers do too, but overcoming the penalties requires very little training: turn the shields skill off at 5.)
(3) don't use ranged weapons, as you're better served by conjurations. training melee a little bit is always advisable, but be conservative.
(4) if you want to use conjuration or summoning spells, vehumet. otherwise, or just whenever you feel like it, sif muna. if you want to branch out to necromancy, kiku. vehumet and sif grant books at high piety, while kiku grants books at 1, 3 and 4 stars of piety, so he's always an option.

Thanks a lot

. Gonna try those things out see if i can get any further.

Cheers!

You might try Spriggans, too. They have good magic aptitudes and MP, but unlike other magic-friendly races, they're quick enough to run away when their magic fails.

Should i raise his str to 8 against stat draining or ignore it for the moment? thx

stat draining is not a big deal now that you have several turns (many, sometimes) to rectify when a stat reaches 0. just try to carry a potion of restore abilities or a royal jelly past mid-game, in case you find an orange statue. but it's rare to die because of it.

for all casters, raise str until you get a carrying capacity that doesn't make you want to pull your hair out (i make do with 8 or 9, some people can play with 6 or 7), and pump the rest into int. some races get stat increases as they level up (e.g. humans get a random one every 5 levels, and high elves get one of int or dex every 3 levels), so you may count on those too.

absolutego wrote:(1) stick with a robe, especially early on. later you can use leather armour if you find something nice (like one with an elemental resistance), but don't use anything heavier.
(2) if you find a buckler, use it. shields and larger shields will cripple your spell success, so skip them. (bucklers do too, but overcoming the penalties requires very little training: turn the shields skill off at 5.)
(3) don't use ranged weapons, as you're better served by conjurations. training melee a little bit is always advisable, but be conservative.
(4) if you want to use conjuration or summoning spells, vehumet. otherwise, or just whenever you feel like it, sif muna. if you want to branch out to necromancy, kiku. vehumet and sif grant books at high piety, while kiku grants books at 1, 3 and 4 stars of piety, so he's always an option.

This is pretty much perfect early game advice.

Some addendums:
2) Use a buckler as per above. Once you get to midgame / endgame / a really big pile of XP you can make the call to push to train your shields up for a medium shield. This can be beneficial if you decide to go hybrid, or find a really good medium shield. There's a good chance that even if you turn your shields off at 5 - 7 that by the endgame you'll be a pretty short hop away from using a medium shield well. If you make the call to train for medium shields the best bet is to get a bunch of XP, turn the rest of your defensive skills off, and stand in front of a rat, or a bat (preferably), or anything else that doesn't hit too hard with a preference for things that move fast.
3) As a caster don't focus on thrown weapons, but it's not bad advice to pick up the first pile of darts or stones you see. Use your magic first, but for that hobgoblin with one HP throw stuff (especially if you have 0 MP). Or if you're a caster without magic dart throw stuff until an enemy gets in range. Don't let your throwing skill get too high, but gather up poisoned and curare needles, and a blowgun. The poisoned needles will be handy for the early game and the curare for much of the rest. (It's never a bad option to poison a fleeing enemy when you have better uses for your MP.)
edit: Also, some melee is good, but it often better to turn your weapon skill of and direct as much XP into fighting as you can (Unless you plan to go hybrid). Even with the weapon skill off you'll still gain points in your weapon of choice...

Thanks for all the advice. Atm i am trying out deep elf. They play a bit easier than human imo due more MP. And it feels more right to be an elf hehe.

Only thing i miss in the skills list is fighting, will it come available later on or?

Odd...

speciesxx wrote:Only thing i miss in the skills list is fighting, will it come available later on or?

It will appear once you have gained the skill. Keep fighting in melee (even plants) with xp in your pool and you'll eventually learn it.

speciesxx wrote:Thanks for all the advice. Atm i am trying out deep elf. They play a bit easier than human imo due more MP. And it feels more right to be an elf hehe.

Deep Elfs are the ultimate casters, but also a glass cannon. If you compare them with other species you'll see how fragile they are.
It took me a long time to play crawl so well that i was able to get a Deep Elf past the midgame, and even in the lategame there are often situations where some 30 hp more would have saved one.
But you are right, the aptitudes are just too tempting

Try to get Mephitic Cloud castable asap because its just awesome early on. you can also train fighting quite nicely with it. but turn of stabbing when you get it that way (unless you want to play an hybrid stabber)

Currently i am a lvl 9 deep elf wizard

. Found a leather armor of charity:
cursed, rF+, Int+1, SInv... can i decurse it and then use it, or should i keep it for later? For higher lvl cause it aint a robe

.

Upgrading to leather is usually safe enough for a caster. You might need to train up your utility magic skills another level or two, but you can almost always overwhelm the casting penalty quickly by training magic more. Just look at your spell success before and after switching to the leather armor, and take steps to correct any hit to your spell success rate.

Thanks

. Atm i only got 3 spells all excellent. Still waiting for a book! But good game so far, nice armour and running boots too :O

slowcar wrote:
speciesxx wrote:Thanks for all the advice. Atm i am trying out deep elf.

A lot of people here suggest DEs as a good first caster species. I don't. I much prefer HEs. People mention that DEs are glass cannons, and that's true. They're really not a good n00b species, IMHO, as: 1) They just plain die too damn easy, 2) It presents the n00b caster with the need to pump Str (as opposed to the more insinuative Int) in the early game, and 3) DEs have more of a stealth focus where HEs can be effective melee hybrids which is easier to figure out for a n00b.

But that's just my $.02 CAD.

I'd mostly just raise strength so you won't go crazy always getting burdened. If you're good at managing your inventory and don't mind going back to your stash often, then you surely leave your strength at 5 or 6, though having it a tad higher makes the gameplay less frustrating.

High elves are glass cannons, but less so than deep elves. A little more hp, and more importantly better fighting aptitude which makes it easier to manage and raise their exp.

Mine died at Lair2

. Came down and there were a bunch of frogs who hopped me to death. Not fair tbh

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Which wizard would be still playable as caster and have a decent hp pool? Humans i guess?

i agree on the high elves. personally i love them for crusader characters which plan to tackle the endgame later on (melee+tornado).
unfortunately the missing berserk made my early game a lot more deadly as they are indeed still squishy, but the -2 on fighting makes it a pain to level for deep elves.

it may be that a seasoned crawl player is happy to play a str 5 caster if there is enough int to compensate, but i am not that hardcore.
the first two or three stats go to strength for my DE casters, i can live with 7 or 8, but its still not overy comfortable.

my first successfull (non-hybrid) casters were high elf and demon spawn, nowadays i get deep elves to survive the crucial levels sometimes, but it was a development.
@OP: if you feel too fragile try a more robust race until you have learned the ropes, a few HP more make the game a bit more forgiving (i first wrote a lot, but its crawl).

minmay wrote:High elves are glass cannons too.

A bit less glass though. In utter n00b land (not that I'm that far removed from it) a 1/6 or 1/7 hp difference = 'a lot of splats', and that gets exacerbated over the medium / longer term. DEs are just plain less forgiving, which is good from a learning POV I suppose.

And why would you need to raise strength?

The big gulf between 6 vs 4 Str on Lv 1 on a Wz. Once again, 4 Str does a good job from a learning POV, but it is so low that even relatively picky-picker-upers will (seemingly) be perpetually encumbered. No to mention that I'm OK with a stat below 8, but even if a Str 4 DE doesn't hit Str 0, even 1 point off that puts you in a bad place. (And the milling about encumbered really doesn't help with splats either.)

HEs and DEs teach largely the same lessons but, IMHO, the HE is the one I'd learn on.

speciesxx wrote:Which wizard would be still playable as caster and have a decent hp pool? Humans i guess?

I just had my first win with Demonspawn Wizard.
These can be very robust, but you have to be a bit lucky with mutations or adapt to some (like nightstalker)
A Naga Wizard should also be quite sturdy, if you can can compensate for their slowness.Get Flight+Swiftness or Haste as soon as possible.

Atm i am trying just different races, and see how far i can come with them. And get a feeling about the differences. Next will be demigod. Just wonder how much of an advantage they are in the early game. Cause they do get more stats etc, but they do also level slower, which might result in the same overall stats with the same exp (if that makes sense lol).

After that, demonspawn is on the list

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About the hp, i do agree that a bit more or less hp makes a difference for me atm. More hp is good, and makes room for more or bigger mistakes. For learning both is good in a different way i guess. Low hp makes you be more careful and feel the punishment of being not 100% focused etc, while more hp means you can survive some of these mistakes and come further in the game and learn more.
But i must say i feel the same about my MP pool in the early stage of the game. With a human i tend to run out of MP rather fast and need to retreat more often than with a DE.

Its all about preferences and taste i guess

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Demigods can make great casters... if they survive long enough. Not having a god makes that harder. Other casters can get spellbooks from their gods (or some other great perk), but you have to make do with whatever books the RNG throws your way. In the end, it's not that crippling a handicap (spellbooks aren't THAT rare, and eventually you'll find spells you can kick ass with), but you do need to be a little more adaptable than usual.

Troll wizard is fun - sure the magic develops slower (-3 aps) - but you do have claws as a back up plan, cant wear armour anyway can carry the kitchen sink, and only need to spend points in unarmed and fighting, and can eat anything.

Troll? :O... aint Ogre better in that case? More HP, MP, and better aps?

Lol ok i will keep that in mind, skipping Ogres

troll wizard is basically a decent hybrid. Troll needs some range/crowd control - wizard is one way of giving it.

I did play a HE this time, and i must say it felt like a more balanced char than a DE. Gonna try one again, and then Troll after. Died cause i stood in my own ice spell and didn't see i was actually standing in it. 2 turns later... sigh... lesson learnt again

Naga wizards play well. Split lots of poison. Once conjure flame and mephitic cloud are online, use them to escape and control crowds. rPois + mephitic is amazing. Nagas have lots of HP, so have time to plan an escape even when you're getting clobbered. Slow movement hurts a lot, so back away from nasty sleeping enemies. You will use your scrolls of teleport quickly as a Naga. Rings of teleportation are gold.

I want to throw in that a vampire Necromancer is a nice idea to play with or a summoner. Since vampires can't actually die from hunger, it makes it fairly easy as all you're doing is just killing things and draining the blood from the corpse. As a summoner it makes it very easy since all you're really doing is summoning things, then drinking the blood which heals you also (just health, not mana).

One bit of advice, if you do decide to go with vampire, I really do suggest you try to go with Kiku as a god. The abilitiy to summon corpses can really help out if you need to drink blood and secondly, you get all the necromancer spellbooks. So you can of course start with a different class at the start. Vampires also get bat form at level 3 which is very handy for a quick escape while your summons attack as you get a speed boost in bat form. While your strength does decrease, both amulets and rings merge with you (aswell as robes) so you still gain the bonuses. I'm unsure about other pieces of equipment. You also cannot perform spells in this form but your stealth and evasion is increased.
Also, if you level to level 6 as a vampire, we get the ability to bottle blood (it can coagulate but it just has a lesser effect upon you then), which leaves a skeleton you can then raise with necromancy.

If you plan on playing a race that eats, try to get a ring of the gourmand; it allows you to eat things that you would not normally be able to (kobold corpses, etc) and not get sick. Though some races can eat those like a troll. And

So many choices

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Atm i keep dying just before lair and orc mines, around XL 11

. Seems like i can't kill things anymore as easily as on the lower levels, even when i find some nice books. I just seem to run in many ice and poison immunes.

I do train the meph cloud spell, and i had a single target ice spell, and poison cloud. And still stuff kills me, and i run out of mana too all the time

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Am i doing something terrible wrong or is that the path of learning?

You are on the path to learning. Crawl is immensely hard, so don't feel bad if you die again, and again, and again. Although you should try to die from new things each time. =)

I'm a big fan of Naga Wizards. They have loads of HP, and since they're immune to poison, they can drop mephitic clouds right on top of themselves. They are slow. Very slow; you cannot run away from anything really, but that's actually a good training tool imo. It will teach you to be cautious, which will help you later on when you're playing a normal speed race.

Did try out the Naga. Starts slow, but after that it is fun. But again i didn't manage to get past XL11... I can't seem to get things killed at that point due magic dart does too little damage, and so many poison resistant mobs

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I remember cleaning without *too much* trouble the Lair, Orc and down to level 16 of main dungeon with a naga wizard with only the starting spell book.

They branch very good into some kind of slow jack of all trades. Killing confused stuff is done idealy with a dagger, which ends up getting decent stabing skill. Nagas are kings of sneakiness its often best just stabbing.
Save mana and prepares a bit for when melee combat is really needed.

Undeads and stupid ice monsters should be killed with Conjure Flame, this spell is good to escape in corridors too.

At around XL10 or so, naga wizards can use both a small buckler and leather armor as extra defense, maybe earlier with a ring of wizardry.

speciesxxx, you should post one of your morgue files. That would help us see how you are allocating your spells and skills.

I suggest you play a High Elf Wizard. When you start, before you take a step anywhere, turn off all your skills except Conj. Then fire a bunch of Darts into the air (using the Z command). That should get your conj to 2. Now you can kill things much more reliably. Turn on your skills and start exploring.

Learn all of the spells in the starting book except for Slow. Watch your skill progression. You want Spellcasting going up faster than the other skills since it gives you more slots and reduces hunger.

Also, as soon as you find a sword, start killing easy monsters with the sword instead of your spells. Turn off the sword skill when it shows up. The goal is to pump Fighting to get your hp up.

If you are dying at ~10, in early Lair or Orc, that is probably because you have not found a medium attack spell. Throw Frost/Flame is pretty good. You can get those relatively easily if you worship Vehmut (assuming, of course, that the RNGs give you that choice...).

If you can't get the 2nd level frost/flame spell, then you can try casting conj flame as enemies approach you. Some will walk right into the flames (i.e., undeads). Stand next to the flames and melee the enemy while they burn. That will help vs some enemies.

As for the Imp suggestion, that works if you can find a nice biggish room. Summon like 3-4 imps, lure the enemy into the room, and use t a to have the Imps attack. Then you keep summoning more Imps to send into the fray as need be.

Also, don't be shy about using the Wands. The RNGs are usually very generous on the blaster wands. If a Spiny Toad is giving you a hard time, nuke away with the biggest gun you have.

Good luck man. Glad to see you are staying with it!

(Btw, do you play on WebTiles? If not, you should try it. If so, ping me if you see me (handle rootoo over there) -- be happy to watch one of your games.)

I have found the easiest wizards to start with are the valediction Spriggan Enchanter and Deep Dwarf Necromancer ( though I prefer Earth Elementalist ). The game will has guides for playing both.

Wow thanks for those replies

. It really helps to learn this game, and its nice to see so many friendly people in the forums.
This game is so much fun tbh, reminds me of the good old days of Amiga Hack and Larn games.

As for the tips:
Mainly i am doing as Lantier suggests, get fighting skill, and i have the feeling i lack a real good attack spell around XL10-11, at the point i am supposed to go into Lair / Orc Mines.

I also like imps a lot, they can be nice, but it does need a room indeed, so they can surround their victim.

I will keep an eye out for my spellcasting skil, see how it progresses. If it is too slow i can switch off some other skills and see how it works

.

I do play with tiles yes. Didn't like it at first, as i was too much used to Ascii @ and such (ty Adom lol). But now i can't play without i think.

I gonna have another go at the Wizard and see how far i come. Will post a morgue file afterwards.

For the moment i do have 2 questions:
- why do i need to use a sword?
- why do i disable dodging?

Cheers!

I got over confident cause i found a book with fire spells and died just before entering the lair lol.

Code:: Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.8.1 character file. 3234 Ramon the Conjurer (level 9, -4/46 HPs) Began as a High Elf Wizard on July 2, 2011. Was a Believer of Vehumet. Slain by an ice beast (18 damage) ... on Level 9 of the Dungeon. The game lasted 01:09:48 (11518 turns). Ramon the Conjurer (High Elf Wizard) Turns: 11518, Time: 01:09:48 HP -4/46 AC 2 Str 9 Exp: 9/4020 (0), need: 1844 MP 15/25 EV 14 Int 27 God: Vehumet [**....] Gold 420 SH 0 Dex 13 Spells: 7 memorised, 7 levels left Res.Fire : . . . See Invis. : . h - +0,+1 whip (flame) Res.Cold : . . . Warding : . . a - +0 elf robe Life Prot.: . . . Conserve : . (no shield) Res.Acid. : . . . Res.Corr. : . b - +0 elf wizard hat Res.Poison: . Clarity : . (no cloak) Res.Elec. : . Spirit.Shd : . p - -1 pair of gauntlets Sust.Abil.: . . Stasis : . (no boots) Res.Mut. : . Ctrl.Telep.: . (no amulet) Res.Rott. : . Levitation : . K - ring of sustenance Saprovore : . . . Ctrl.Flight: . J - +3 ring of strength @: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly stealthy A: no striking features a: Renounce Religion You were on level 9 of the Dungeon. You worshipped Vehumet. Vehumet was most pleased with you. You were not hungry. You visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and saw 12 of its levels. You collected 403 gold pieces. You spent 3 gold pieces at shops. Inventory: Hand weapons h - a +0,+1 whip of flaming (weapon) O - a +0,+0 dagger (quivered) Armour a - a +0 elven robe (worn) b - a +0 elven wizard hat (worn) p - a -1 pair of gauntlets (worn) Magical devices r - a wand of draining (8) u - a wand of cold (10) {unknown} v - a wand of enslavement (5) {unknown} y - a wand of teleportation (10) {unknown} F - a wand of frost (3) G - a wand of paralysis (7) {unknown} Comestibles k - 3 meat rations P - 2 bread rations Scrolls d - a scroll of acquirement {unknown} f - a scroll of blinking {unknown} i - a scroll of identify l - 4 scrolls of remove curse n - 5 scrolls of detect curse w - a scroll of teleportation B - 2 scrolls of enchant armour {unknown} D - 2 scrolls of immolation H - 2 scrolls of amnesia {unknown} I - a scroll of enchant weapon II M - a scroll of recharging {unknown} Q - a scroll of fear {unknown} R - a scroll of random uselessness {unknown} Jewellery o - an uncursed ring of life protection J - a +3 ring of strength (left hand) K - a ring of sustenance (right hand) Potions e - a potion of degeneration {unknown} g - 2 potions of restore abilities {unknown} j - 3 potions of brilliance {unknown} m - 3 potions of speed {unknown} q - 2 potions of slowing s - 2 potions of magic {unknown} t - a potion of poison {unknown} x - a potion of agility {unknown} A - a potion of levitation {unknown} C - 3 potions of healing {unknown} E - a potion of berserk rage {unknown} N - a potion of resistance {unknown} Books c - a book of Minor Magic Spells Type Level *Magic Dart Conjuration 1 *Blink Translocation 2 *Call Imp Summoning 2 *Repel Missiles Charms/Air 2 Slow Hexes 2 *Conjure Flame Conjuration/Fire 3 *Mephitic Cloud Conjuration/Poison/Air 3 L - a book of Flames Spells Type Level Flame Tongue Conjuration/Fire 1 *Throw Flame Conjuration/Fire 2 *Conjure Flame Conjuration/Fire 3 Sticky Flame Conjuration/Fire 4 Bolt of Fire Conjuration/Fire 6 Fireball Conjuration/Fire 6 You had 0 experience left. Skills: - Level 2 Short Blades + Level 5 Dodging - Level 2 Stealth + Level 7 Spellcasting + Level 11 Conjurations + Level 4 Summonings + Level 2 Translocations + Level 2 Fire Magic + Level 3 Air Magic + Level 2 Poison Magic You had 7 spell levels left. You knew the following spells: Your Spells Type Power Success Level Hunger a - Magic Dart Conj ##### Excellent 1 None b - Call Imp Summ #####..... Excellent 2 None c - Mephitic Cloud Pois/Air/Conj ######.... Excellent 3 None d - Conjure Flame Fire/Conj ######... Excellent 3 None e - Repel Missiles Air/Chrm ####...... Great 2 None f - Blink Tloc N/A Excellent 2 None g - Throw Flame Fire/Conj ######. Excellent 2 None Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations Branches: Dungeon (9/27) Temple (1/1) D:6 Orc (2/4) D:6 Lair (0/8) D:9 Altars: Ashenzari Cheibriados Elyvilon Fedhas Kikubaaqudgha Makhleb Nemelex Xobeh Okawaru Sif Muna The Shining One Trog Vehumet Xom Yredelemnul Zin Shops: D:4: * Message History Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells. Aiming: Throw Flame Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - ice beast Aim: An ice beast (lightly wounded) The puff of flame misses the ice beast. The ice beast hits you. The ice beast freezes you! The rat misses you. You blink. The ice beast hits you. The ice beast freezes you! You die... ¦·····¦ ¦···¦¦·¦·¦ ·¦¦·¦·¦········ ¦·····¦ ¦···¦¦·¦·¦ ·¦¦·¦·¦···¦···· ¦·····¦ ¦¦¦¦¦···¦¦·¦·¦ ·¦¦·¦·¦¦¦·¦··¦· ······¦·¦ ¦·······¦¦·¦·¦¦¦¦¦·¦¦·¦········¦· ¦¦¦¦¦·¦·¦¦¦¦··········%·······¦¦·¦·¦¦¦·¦··¦· ¦·¦···············¦······¦¦¦·¦·¦ ¦·¦··¦· ¦·¦······¦¦¦¦¦····¦··¦¦¦·····¦¦¦¦¦¦¦··¦· ¦······¦ ¦····¦··¦···········¦¦¦·[¦· ¦·¦¦¦¦¦¦ ¦····¦····¦·············)·% ¦·¦ ¦····¦¦·¦¦¦·¦¦¦¦¦¦¦·¦¦¦·¦¦· ··· ··················¦ ¦······ ·¦·¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦·¦···¦¦¦¦¦·¦ ¦¦¦··¦· ···¦ ········@··¦···¦ ¦··¦ ¦ ¦¦¦··¦¦¦I··¦···¦ ¦··¦ ·········#·····¦ ¦¦¦··¦ ¦¦·····¦r¦·¦·¦·¦ ¦····¦ ···¦········¦·¦ ¦·¦¦·¦ ¦ ··········¦·¦ ¦·¦ ·¦ ·¦·········¦·¦ ¦·¦ ·¦ ¦ ¦·········¦·¦ ¦·¦ ·¦ ¦ ¦¦¦··¦¦¦··¦·¦ ¦ ¦·¦ ·¦ ·· ··· ···¦·¦·¦ ¦·¦ ·¦¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦·¦·¦¦····¦·¦¦· · · ·················¦··¦ ·¦ ¦ ¦¦¦¦¦¦¦¦·¦·¦¦····¦·)¦ ·¦ You could see an ice beast and a rat. Vanquished Creatures Pikel (D:6) Prince Ribbit (D:6) A giant toad (D:9) A steam dragon (D:9) An orc warrior (D:7) An ice beast (D:7) A phantom (D:6) 2 ogres A sky beast (D:6) 2 centaurs A giant frog (D:8) A water moccasin (D:7) 4 wights (D:7) 3 imps A hound zombie (D:5) A scorpion (D:9) A hound (D:7) 2 iguanas A hound skeleton (D:9) An orc wizard (D:6) A quasit (D:5) 4 worker ants A big fish zombie (D:7) Ijyb (D:5) 2 jellies 11 snakes A snake skeleton (D:8) 4 worms A megabat zombie (D:7) 5 giant geckos 2 oozes 18 orcs 5 giant cockroaches 7 goblins 16 hobgoblins 8 jackals 17 kobolds 15 megabats 3 quokkas 4 giant newts 20 rats A fungus (D:6) 2 toadstools (D:1) 177 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills) A sky beast (D:6) A slave (D:8) 2 ogres 4 giant frogs A gila monster (D:9) A water moccasin (D:8) A wight (D:7) A goliath beetle (D:8) A hound zombie (D:9) An orc wizard (D:7) 4 snakes An iguana skeleton (D:3) A snake skeleton (D:4) A snake zombie (D:2) A giant mite (D:5) A worm (D:8) A megabat zombie (D:5) A giant gecko (D:4) 2 orcs 3 giant cockroaches 2 jackals (D:7) 2 kobolds 4 goblins 2 megabats 2 rats (D:5) 42 creatures vanquished. Vanquished Creatures (others) A gila monster zombie (D:9) 10 imps An iron imp (D:7) A snake zombie (D:8) 5 shadow imps A snake (D:2) 9 white imps 2 megabat zombies 2 orcs A giant cockroach zombie (D:6) A goblin zombie (D:6) An orc zombie (D:8) A quokka zombie (D:6) 8 toadstools 44 creatures vanquished. Grand Total: 263 creatures vanquished Notes Turn | Place | Note -------------------------------------------------------------- 0 | D:1 | Ramon, the High Elf Wizard, began the quest for the Orb. 0 | D:1 | Reached XP level 1. HP: 7/7 MP: 5/5 591 | D:1 | Reached XP level 2. HP: 11/11 MP: 6/8 595 | D:1 | Learned a level 2 spell: Call Imp 703 | D:1 | Reached skill level 4 in Spellcasting 1079 | D:2 | Reached XP level 3. HP: 12/17 MP: 10/11 1084 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Mephitic Cloud 1088 | D:2 | Learned a level 3 spell: Conjure Flame 1188 | D:2 | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh. 1267 | D:2 | Noticed a snake zombie 1277 | D:2 | Defeated a snake zombie 1859 | D:3 | Reached skill level 1 in Summonings 2727 | D:3 | Reached XP level 4. HP: 21/21 MP: 10/14 2733 | D:3 | Learned a level 2 spell: Repel Missiles 2960 | D:3 | Reached skill level 5 in Conjurations 3415 | D:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon 3515 | D:5 | Noticed Ijyb 3534 | D:5 | Reached XP level 5. HP: 26/26 MP: 8/16 3598 | D:5 | Reached skill level 1 in Air Magic 3617 | D:5 | Reached skill level 6 in Conjurations 3659 | D:5 | Defeated Ijyb 3871 | D:4 | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul. 3915 | D:4 | Found Deamouf's General Store. 3917 | D:4 | Reached skill level 1 in Short Blades 3937 | D:4 | Bought a scroll of immolation for 1 gold piece 3937 | D:4 | Bought a scroll of curse weapon for 1 gold piece 3937 | D:4 | Bought a potion of slowing for 1 gold piece 4676 | D:5 | Reached XP level 6. HP: 31/31 MP: 8/18 4692 | D:5 | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink 5707 | D:5 | Reached skill level 7 in Conjurations 5919 | D:6 | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas. 5921 | D:6 | Got a distressingly furry splint mail 5986 | D:6 | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple. 6032 | Temple | Entered the Ecumenical Temple 6094 | Temple | Became a worshipper of Vehumet 6128 | D:6 | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting 6179 | D:6 | Noticed Prince Ribbit 6216 | D:6 | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines. 6221 | D:6 | Defeated Prince Ribbit 6221 | D:6 | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 11/20 6235 | D:6 | Reached skill level 1 in Poison Magic 6706 | D:7 | Found an iron altar of Okawaru. 6709 | D:7 | Reached skill level 8 in Conjurations 7089 | D:7 | Reached skill level 9 in Conjurations 7279 | D:6 | Acquired Vehumet's first power 7595 | D:6 | Reached XP level 8. HP: 40/40 MP: 7/22 7995 | D:7 | Noticed Pikel 8824 | D:9 | Found a staircase to the Lair. 8843 | D:9 | Reached skill level 1 in Fire Magic 8938 | D:9 | Got a fine sling 8939 | D:9 | Identified the cursed -2,-5 sling "Hydrabane" (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon) 8994 | D:8 | Learned a level 2 spell: Throw Flame 9011 | D:8 | Found a burning altar of Makhleb. 9034 | D:8 | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari. 9072 | D:9 | Reached skill level 10 in Conjurations 9073 | D:9 | HP: 2/40 [giant frog (9)] 9435 | Orc:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines 9856 | D:6 | Defeated Pikel 9856 | D:6 | Reached XP level 9. HP: 37/46 MP: 3/24 10174 | D:7 | Acquired Vehumet's second power 10253 | D:7 | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging 10444 | D:7 | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha. 11236 | D:8 | Reached skill level 11 in Conjurations 11518 | D:9 | Slain by an ice beast

K, a couple of things here.

I think your magic skills are kind of high. Spellcasting at 7 is fine. But you didn't need Conj at 11--having Conj match Spellcasting would have been enough. Also, to use Mephitic, you only need 2 Air and 2 Poison. I would turn both off after that unless you really had a good reason for either to keep sucking up xp.

This would have freed up more xp for fighting. To get fighting going, one way is to attack plants when you have xp in your pool. That is enough to get you Fighting 1. It will not work after that.

What minmay is suggesting is that you turn off melee related skills when you are trying to pump xp into Fighting. So Dodge, Armor, Shields, and Sword (or whatever weapon you choose) should all be turned off when you are working on getting Fighting up. You can turn them back on once you get a level or three of Fighting. But you really don't need much Armor or Shields if you just wear Leather and tote a Buckler.

You also have a lot of unidentified stuff there. Read this: http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Identification

It has some outdated stuff, but is generally good. Wands can be easily identified by shooting at a bat or rat with a wall behind it. Scrolls are more or less safe to just randomly read. Potions are probably the most dangerous. Personally, I stop messing with unknown potions after I find Heal, Heal Wounds and 2-3 other good ones. Later on in the game, there are usually ways to ID all the pots at no risk (i.e., Distillation and shops). But that's just how I like to play it. YMMV.

Don't be afraid to use those consumables. Crawl gives you more. Lots and lots more.

Re that Ice Beast. One of the important tricks to playing Crawl is recognizing when to run. That Ice Beast was not something you wanted close to you. If you know this when you spot it, you usually have time to back into a corridor, block it with flame, and escape. (Or if you were gutsy, I supposed you could have tried to zap it from behind the fire.) Use the Knowledge Bots to look up enemy stats and start to develop a sense of what you can take on and what you cannot take on (for now).

Good luck and keep playing!

Lantier wrote:Re that Ice Beast. One of the important tricks to playing Crawl is recognizing when to run. That Ice Beast was not something you wanted close to you. If you know this when you spot it, you usually have time to back into a corridor, block it with flame, and escape. (Or if you were gutsy, I supposed you could have tried to zap it from behind the fire.) Use the Knowledge Bots to look up enemy stats and start to develop a sense of what you can take on and what you cannot take on (for now).

Good luck and keep playing!

If you're playing relatively unspoiled, are just lazy, or don't want to break immersion there's a simple procedure I used to follow, and still do when I'm pushing on to something new:

1. Have I been to this branch / depth before?

2. Have I seen that critter / unique before @1?

3. If 'no' to 2, examine the critter first and make sure you're in a position to flee.

Crawl is good at giving you an ego adjuster when you get too sure of yourself, or when you start playing on auto-pilot.

Shade wrote:
The big gulf between 6 vs 4 Str on Lv 1 on a Wz. Once again, 4 Str does a good job from a learning POV, but it is so low that even relatively picky-picker-upers will (seemingly) be perpetually encumbered. No to mention that I'm OK with a stat below 8, but even if a Str 4 DE doesn't hit Str 0, even 1 point off that puts you in a bad place. (And the milling about encumbered really doesn't help with splats either.)

I used to put 1 or 2 points into Str once my inv started getting a bit full. But I more recently just stopped doing that, and now I just go Int every time (and this was true for my winning game).

At Str 4 you certainly can't carry a whole lot of stuff. The thing is, a caster has so many options available to help with burden. For a start there's Flight or just Lev which both massively boost your capacity, and then there are several transmutations that give you a temporary Str boost; so I manage my inventory fairly stringently up to a point, and then start keeping spells on permanently until I've got enough stuff to make it worth a trip back to my stash.

Then typically by the midgame I'll find some piece of jewellery or other gear with a Str boost. Even if it's not something I want to wear all the time, I can pop it on once I start getting burdened, again just to pick up a bit of extra stuff for a stash run.

So there's a period of the game where inventory management is a bit tricky (but manageable) - but once you're past that, things get a lot easier, and you'll be really glad you didn't waste any points on Str. It will help you get a Lvl 9 spell castable that much earlier.

Keeping your inventory trim is no bad thing anyway; by mid-late game the limit I am generally hitting is the # of inventory slots, not the weight cap. You have to carefully choose which gear is really essential to carry around most of the time, because you'll still need slots available to pick up all the stuff you find. Additionally you'll lose less scrolls/potions to fire/ice if you don't carry as much. So you might as well get practiced at inventory management, you'll be needing it

@Lantier: thx for the details. I am keeping Conjuration around my Spellcasting level now, and air and poison low, unless i find a good book with spells in the needed school.
Thanks for the link on iding stuff, is nice

.
And ye, the ice beast... strange thing is game before i 2 shotted it in melee, maybe just plain luck. Now he did the same to me lmao.

@Shade: will keep that in mind... especially with Hydra and Eels!

And you are right about the ego part... puts you with your feet back to the ground.

Did reach the Lair and died to a Hydra + Eel combo. Baaaadddd stuff.
Think my weak point is open places, cause i tend to die more often there. Only realised it now. Learning ftw, so back to crawl!

.

(Atm i do like HE wizards, just because i come further in the game with them, for now

. )

Cu soon

(ye i am addicted omg)

speciesxx wrote:Think my weak point is open places, cause i tend to die more often there. Only realised it now. Learning ftw, so back to crawl! .

Open spaces are always more dangerous. In corridors it's generally much easier to manage threats than in the open where you can get ganged up on.

mumra wrote:Open spaces are always more dangerous. In corridors it's generally much easier to manage threats than in the open where you can get ganged up on.

with the exception of single enemies and Orb of Destruction :geek:

The Tavern

Wizard tips for new player

Wizard tips for new player

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