Is Abyssal Always the Easiest Third Rune?

[MainiacJoe]

In nearly every game lately where I've gotten that far, I've felt that the abyssal rune is the easiest third rune by a long stretch. Once you figure out how to navigate it, it's pretty much, "walk around avoiding stuff until you're on A:3, then keep avoiding stuff except walk towards any terrain that doesn't look random because that's probably the rune vault."

As for no rMut in trunk (which admittedly I've not played) I think the amulet threads have covered what to do about the lack of rMut to the extent that I don't expect it will be a problem. Indeed in my latest MiHu-crossbows win I swapped to "rMut for Abyss and it was a waste because I could one-shot the neqotecs if I couldn't run away from them. If you can't evade or one-shot them, pop fog or otherwise break LOS until your teleport kicks in.

V:5 is just plain scary to me, perhaps by inexperience. As for Slime, well RNG doesn't always give me rCorr, and I have even less experience with it than V:5. But for Abyss, I feel like any character that can finish Depths can do it with no problem whatsoever. So I say to myself, "This character has gotten farther than I usually manage. Why risk it on risky third runes I don't know well, when the abyssal rune is effectively free?" This is boring, and the abyss itself is boring, but winning is still a novelty for me and when I get this far I don't want to screw up so I put up with boring abyss.

The relative risk of these three third-rune candidates seems really unbalanced, and I can think of two reasons. First, perhaps the abyss is more dangerous than I realize and I've just gotten lucky. Second, maybe the abyss really is easy and is kept easy so that early banishments are not automatic death sentences.

Are there any circumstances where one would choose sliver or slimy over abyssal as the third rune? (Besides ^Jiyva, that's obvious.)

TLDR: The abyss seems so much easier than V:5 or Slime:6 that I suspect I'm completely oblivious to some danger that lurks therein.

[advil]

Try a Qaz character and see how you feel.

More generally, I only do abyss as a third rune on extremely stealthy characters with apport. Bad luck can lead to some very nasty situations for any character (paralysis from starcursed masses in an open area being one), and some of the rune vaults can be quite nasty without apport. Noise means you have to fight a lot more bad stuff, and qazlal is a limiting case: I remember abyss as one of the hardest runes for me on my qaz 15 rune. It's also very hard to rest in the abyss, especially deeper, so any character that relies on resting (e.g. to regain MP) can have some issues. Finally, sometimes you just wander forever because of rng, and it gets annoying. My CIP is a DD of pakellas, and while abyss probably would've probably been ok because he has decent stealth, slime was way more reliably easy as a third rune [edit, actually second, I haven't done shoals yet].

I should say I haven't actually experienced abyss on 0.18 so I don't know how this advice applies to it.

[sanka]

I am a bad player who died on V:$ many times, but I am fairly sure that it's more easier for any non-Lugonu worshipper than the Abyss (and easier than slime for most characters). The general tactic is haste + buffs, go down, magic map, go to the quarter where few monsters can attack you at a time without making too much noise. It is one part of a game where regeneration really helps.

[ydeve]

Personally, I've found Slime to be the easiest rune on casters and Qaz characters, even without rCorr, as long as you stick to the stairs. You can safely stairdance your way down to Slime 6, where you use the stairs to pick off any jellies at range until you're alone with TRJ. Then you just spam your bolt spell (or upheaval for Qaz) and TRJ just dies before anything can get to you.

[Sprucery]

I almost always do silver as the 3rd rune because it's the most fun (actually I think V:5 is the single most fun level in Crawl). Sometimes if I get banished I go get the abyssal rune earlier but even then I always do V:5. Sometimes I've done Tomb as 3rd. I don't remember the last time I've died on V:5 (probably about 10 years ago), so it's not particularly hard if you know what to expect.

[dpeg]

Feels good to have so many different answers!

[Tiktacy]

I almost always do silver as the 3rd rune because it's the most fun (actually I think V:5 is the single most fun level in Crawl). Sometimes if I get banished I go get the abyssal rune earlier but even then I always do V:5. Sometimes I've done Tomb as 3rd. I don't remember the last time I've died on V:5 (probably about 10 years ago), so it's not particularly hard if you know what to expect.

I'll never forget the first time I got the silver ruin of zot. It was back when Vaults was 8 levels and most of the levels were basically random different sized rooms spread across the floor and vault guards were the only vault unique enemies(to my knowledge). None-the-less, I was very proud of myself.

I find slime to be the easiest 3rd rune in general, keep in mind that scrolls of torment work on TRJ and can bring him down low enough to bolt him to death then teleport out of there. V:$ is just too risky imo, its too easy to get into a bad situation with vault wardens. However, which rune I get generally depends most on how high my invocations are, since the easiest way(besides freezing cloud method) to take him down is to torment then spam elemental evokables + wand until he is dead.

For the record, I could be totally wrong and its completely possible that what I'm saying is terrible advice. So yeah, grain of salt.

[Turukano]

Related topic: What 3rd rune is easiest for most characters to get?

[edgefigaro]

I very rarely get slimy rune, generally because of shining eyes, and TRJ has burned me a few times. Specifically, getting badmuts on the way to TRJ from shining eyes has killed me when I discover I have blurry vision and I need to blink away from the jelly horde.

I often get abyssal. I consider it the safest 3rd rune for most characters.

I often get silver, if I think my character is powerful enough to straightforward overpower v5. Most characters who get the silver rune could also easily get the abyssal rune, but V5 loot is better than the abyss.

[stoneychips]

I'm still getting used to Abyss... I've only gotten the rune there a few times. I've done Vault 5 many more times, and feel much more at home there.

Abyss has some freaky vault layouts, like the one where you get multiple negative energy bombs sitting all around the rune. On the other hand, there are also some fairly easy layouts (like the modified elephant/catoblepas/water vault). Abyss can give you a few helpful drops if you have a really strong character and happen to wander around a lot, but Vault 5 generally will have a few very nice items too.

Basically Vault 5 becomes manageable if you've done most of the Dungeon preceding it and drawn reasonably strong gear. In general a heavily armored character or one with strong crowd control has a good chance there, barring some particularly terrible encounter mix and bad luck. Having both serious armor/melee and a little crowd control can really make it rather fun, if you can pull that off.

Of course, if you don't have much MR there's also often a chance of getting Abyssed from Vaults, too. But that's not so often a major problem (and characters are usually very strong anyway) by the time one gets around to that level.

[dowan]

I find vaults far more predictable, but abyss can be easier. The problem is, even if abyss turns out to be easy, you still have to wander around it avoiding enemies for a long time. And sometimes abyss gets surprisingly ugly surprisingly quickly.

The only characters I take to the abyss for my 3rd rune are stealthy squishy types who I feel would have a tough time breaking into vaults.

[bcadren]

  Code:

!lm . urune=3 s=rune
37 milestones for Bcadren (urune=3): 17x slimy, 10x abyssal, 5x silver, 2x barnacled, golden, decaying, demonic
!lm . rune=abyssal s=urune
35 milestones for Bcadren (rune=abyssal): 10x 3, 7x 4, 5x 1, 3x 2, 3x 10, 2x 8, 2x 6, 5, 12, 15
!lm . s=rune x=avg(urune) o=-avg(urune)
453 milestones for Bcadren: 33x gossamer [1.36], 28x decaying [1.46], 17x serpentine [1.47], 24x barnacled [1.88], 34x slimy [4.35], 35x abyssal [4.54], 28x silver [6.93], 29x demonic
[6.97], 28x magical [8.68], 27x fiery [8.85], 25x golden [8.96], 27x glowing [9], 26x dark [9.19], 24x bone [10.54], 23x icy [10.74], 23x iron [10.96], 22x obsidian [12.14]

Abyssal as 1 and 2 accounts for all the barnacled and decaying as third. Slimy or Abyssal is the easiest 3rd IMO, but it does depend on the character. When I've done it as first it was high stealth char, abyssed early; picked up Lugonu and departed Abyss immediately after picking up the rune (too weak to actually clear the endvault, but capable of grabbing the rune and leaving). That said, now that +Tele is gone Abyss is much harder than it used to be. That said I'm a weird player so here's my thoughts on third rune choice:

• Pick Silver if you are a pure Necromancer or high AC character (Troglodyte in heavy armour, etc).
  • Silver is the hardest floor that is mostly living creatures. Has the highest amount of high-tier melee threats at once.
  • Since it's mostly living, it's pretty easy with good necromancy; Death Channel and a decent pain weapon murder the floor easily; since all kills immediately become slaves.
  • Also large variety of creatures, more different kinds at onces than anywhere else (close to literally all living things, only exceptions being unique to Depths, Hell Branches or Zot).
• Pick Golden if you are a melee/caster hybrid; you specifically need Silence and a decent melee weapon. Particularly easy if you are immune to torment (Necromutation, Ghoul or Mummy) or resist to torment (statue form, Gargoyle, following Kiku or TSO).
  • Silence effectively makes Greater Mummies into the same threat level as Dire Elephants (not harmless [bulky and decent melee], but much weaker than they normally are).
  • Most things here torment and have a chance of tormenting when killed.
  • Tomb is nasty, but predictable (short monster list; fixed floor plan) so it gets easier with experience a lot more than any other branch.
  • LRD can be used to "Sequence Break".
  • Stairdancing is important.
• Pick Slimy if you have decent stealth, good MR a good ranged option and LRD.
  • More than half the times I've gotten the Slimy Rune I -did not- fight TRJ, I personally don't think it's worth the risk.
  • Good ranged option (Conjurations or Ranged Weapon) is to take out Shining Eyes and Acid Blobs.
  • MR is because otherwise Golden Eyes are a pain in the ass.
  • LRD is to avoid fighting TRJ (If you are strong enough to fight TRJ, Silver is easier since no corrosion). You use LRD to break into the vault without fighting TRJ (Run to the stairs if you see her).
• Pick Abyssal if you're pure stealth (SpEn or similar) and have decent god support (Zin, Lugonu, etc.).
  • USED to be a better choice, but was more heavily harmed by +Tele being removed than any other branch. Was also harmed by removed rMut more than anywhere else (Wretched Stars)
  • I mostly wouldn't choose it as third these days because of the propensity for endless fights (extreme amounts of enemies continuing to come after you start one fight) and mutation risk.
  • I would go ahead and look for the rune if I was abyssed directly to 3rd or deeper floor if I'm in light armour with good stealth, though. If I struggle too much, I would look to leave; but otherwise look for runes before an exit.

[tabstorm]

Slime is the easiest for almost all characters if you have a decent offense. The exception is stealth stabbers, probably. On a melee user, quaff might agility haste and resistance and melee TRJ to death after reading a scroll of summoning while standing inside a corridor. On a conjurer, quaff haste brilliance and resistance and kill TRJ with bolt spells and immolation, or a level 9 spell. Stealth stabbers will probably have an easier time in the abyss. Don't do Tomb third, it's almost never the easiest 3rd rune.

[ydeve]

I disagree that Silver is easier than Slimy if you can kill TRJ. For Silver, you need strong defenses, as you are facing lots of enemies at once. Not so for Slimy. Melee characters can get a 1v1 fight on TRJ, and casters can just bolt it to death without taking significant damage. rCorr isn't needed.

[bcadren]

I disagree that Silver is easier than Slimy if you can kill TRJ. For Silver, you need strong defenses, as you are facing lots of enemies at once. Not so for Slimy. Melee characters can get a 1v1 fight on TRJ, and casters can just bolt it to death without taking significant damage. rCorr isn't needed.

I'll agree on Conjurer, or Ranger NOT on Meleeist. Meleeist can get surrounded too easily (even with the summoning trick). Also meleeist REALLY should have the defenses for Silver.

[scorpionwarrior]

You must not have tried abyss as a qazlal worshipper before, that shit is bananas. Voluntary abyss runs are almost always really boring or really frustrating imo

e: remove abyssal rune and put it in elf already

[ZipZipskins]

I haven't tried anything as a qazlal worshiper

[ydeve]

I haven't tried anything as a qazlal worshiper

You should, it's a pretty trippy experience. It feels like someone took crawl and mixed it with zot defense.

[Rast]

melee TRJ to death after reading a scroll of summoning while standing inside a corridor.

TIL

[archaeo]

melee TRJ to death after reading a scroll of summoning while standing inside a corridor.

TIL

I recommend watching tabstorm on a Trog speedrun; he makes killing TRJ at XL15-17 look pretty simple, when everything goes right. At a normalcrawl XL, it's even easier.