Sigmund or Grinder?

[diviton]

Who is the most dangerous foe of the early game?

SPOILERS: It's Grinder.

Admittedly, this topic is a bit of a rage topic. I'm already having a hard enough time getting an OpTm off the ground and I finally get a really bitchin' start with 7 rings by the time I hit D:4 and a shop with books to teach me RM, Blink, Swiftness, Ozobucu's Armour and eventually Dragon Form and Ignite Poison. Not only that, the most expensive book there was like 600 gold. It was like heaven. Then Grinder reared his ugly head and killed me in what could only be described as an unavoidable circumstance. He's just a little rotten jerk and that's all there is too it.

I often hear people say Sigmund is the toughest early mob, but I just don't know why. I encounter both frequently and regardless of my character build, for every time Sigmund has killed me, Grinder has killed me at least 6-7 times. So, while I settle my nerves and contemplate breaking my monitor, why don't you guys tell me who you think is the most dangerous of the two. Maybe you think it's somebody else entirely? Prince Ribbit, maybe?

[Davion Fuxa]

Grinder and Sigmund are dangerous but generally of the two I fear Sigmund more since I usually encounter him before I've even identified potions or have a Wand that may potentially handle him. Both are easy enough to kill though if you have the proper wands or potions on hand though.

I probably fear other uniques much more then them. Elrocha is always a potential threat due to high damage output, buffs, or the ability to potentially banish you to the Abyss.

[crate]

Sigmund is more dangerous since he can appear on d:2 and Grinder cannot.

[diviton]

Sigmund is more dangerous since he can appear on d:2 and Grinder cannot.

The difference in your character between D:2 and D:3 is not nearly as significant in the difference between Sigmund and Grinder, IMO.

[pratamawirya]

I rarely have any trouble with Grinder, since he likes to blink around.

[kenmtraveller]

I have more trouble with Sigmund. Generally by the time I meet Grinder I can either melee him with a might potion if I am playing a melee guy, Sticky flame him with a DEFE, or just walk away with a Stabber.

[Grimm]

I believe Sigmund has been in the game longer than Grinder so his reputation is greater.

[thejasper]

Does it matter? I think the smart thing is 'oh look, it's [Sigmund|Grinder]. Run!'. That being said, I hate Sigmund more and I will always try and kill him even if I have to come back to do it.

[daggaz]

Sigmond is easier to kill, but more deadly with his offence, Grinder is easier to get away from. Both are pretty much avoidable 99.99% of the time until you know you can kill them.

Also for early uniques, surprised nobody mentioned Menkaure. I find he is far more worrisome than either with his torments.

[pratamawirya]

Well, duh, Menkaure is slow as heck.

[daggaz]

True, but he stumbles in at the most inopportune times and then blasts you with a torment from way on out. Plus if you dont have powerful ranged attack, it makes it tricky to melee him.

[nago]

Well, duh, Menkaure is slow as heck.

Spells: pain (d8), haste, torment symbol

[mopl]

Sigmund gets invisible and often throws magic darts at you !

I vote for him...

Grinder blinks a lot, that helps killing him

[Psieye]

Sigmund is more dangerous, Grinder is more aggravating - at least for melee dudes who can't cope with his blink.

[pickled_heretic]

I'm pretty new but I think they are both overrated. I die far more often on d1 than I have ever died to those two. I think I died once to each, probably both when it was one of the first times I met them. Grinder is far harder to kill though due to blink and resistance to meph cloud. I still treat him like free exp though.

I have far more fear of any mob that can banish.

[thejasper]

I'm pretty new but I think they are both overrated. I die far more often on d1 than I have ever died to those two. I think I died once to each, probably both when it was one of the first times I met them. Grinder is far harder to kill though due to blink and resistance to meph cloud. I still treat him like free exp though.

I have far more fear of any mob that can banish.

I'm guessing then you are mainly playing a wizard. That is just about the easiest character to kill them with I think. Melee characters have a tougher time, at least in my experience. Don't take my word for it though, try it out and let us know.

[nago]

since he doesn't cast haste when he's out of your LOS i'm not sure what the problem is here

That he can screw the first character who don't know this - then the later are quite safe, yes

[giygas]

For a caster, I'd have to say grinder. You're screwed if you see either of them, but with grinder, it's harder to get away.

[joellercoaster]

You're screwed if you see either of them

No, you're not.

[ebarrett]

since he doesn't cast haste when he's out of your LOS i'm not sure what the problem is here

That he can screw the first character who don't know this - then the later are quite safe, yes

Actually Menkaure is still slower than a normal speed player even when hasted so this whole discussion about Menkaure having haste and how he uses it is pointless.

Also, d:4 Ribbit is the most dangerous early unique (the only? not sure how early Blork can show up), I mean who dies to Sigmund really

[khalil]

Thanks to my MuNe obsession, I'd have to say that sigmund is the worst.
Menkaure can't do a thing to the undead, and the only spell grinder has that will work on me is paralyze.
Sigmund? He sets me on fire and laughs.

[thejasper]

I mean who dies to Sigmund really

melee characters who don't run away.

[nordetsa]

Doesn't help he can cast both confuse and invisibility, and can spawn on D:2. One time I went down to D:2 and saw Sigmund standing right before the stairs. So terrifying-I think he's an orc mage that fools around less and deal more damage.

[giygas]

You're screwed if you see either of them*
* - if you're not prepared

No, you're not.

ftfm

[Tristian]

I'll take Grinder most days... all I need for him is a good wand and some healing abilities.
Sigmund, though... I want a few different potions, a wand and some AC. Even if I'm a caster, I need a weapon. Jeez!!! More stuff!

Grinder is a pain in the butt.
Sigmund is a certified hemorrhoid!

[Tristian]

I mean who dies to Sigmund really

Melee and casters who go down to D2 only to find him standing right there.

[Sandman25]

I avoid both Grinder and Sigmund, they killed too many of my characters. Sigmund is easier to run from (maybe I am wrong here but it's my experience) but kills much faster so they look equal to me.

[daggaz]

Sigmund is a cake if you have access to any poison. Just find a corner and load him up before(if) he goes invis, then duck out of site. He will succumb off screen. Grinder is a pansy if you are melee and have a potion of might, but honestly I just drag him up a stairs half the time and leave him. At least Sigmund has a robe that has a fair chance of being enchanted..

[prozacelf]

If you have a source of confusion that isn't mephitic cloud, they're both relatively easy. If not, I tend to avoid them unless they're about D:5 or deeper....

[XuaXua]

Ijyb with a wand of disintegration.

[Magipi]

ijyb is the most dangerous unique in the game but any D:2 unique can get disintegration

he is however the only D:2 unique that can get fire/cold which are sort of bad

In the message history of that morgue:
No unsafe monster in view!
No unsafe monster in view!

What is that? I never played v0.10.

[Tristian]

Ijyb with a wand of disintegration.

.....not a good day.

[Sandman25]

Once again Grinder proved he is harder to escape from. I had both Grinder and Sigmund on the same level and ran from both (in different areas, not met them simultaneously) but suddenly Grinder blinked full LoS range and landed right next to me. Fortunately I was an OpTm so he died to constriction.

[prozacelf]

To me the worst thing about Grinder is when he wanders in and paralyzes you while you're fighting something else...

[mopl]

Ijyb with a wand of disintegration.

.....not a good day.

Ijyb with a wand of polymorph other...

...doesn't kill you but can ruin the game !

[Lasty]

Ijyb with a wand of disintegration.

.....not a good day.

Ijyb with a wand of polymorph other...

...doesn't kill you but can ruin the game !

Not since wand of poly was changed to force players into bad forms instead of malmutate.

[njvack]

Yeah, now he can turn you into a wandering mushroom which is actually kind of powerful in addition to being extremely amusing.

[prozacelf]

And you can still beat him down if he turns you into a tree.....