Wonder why someone think Ely is strong god.

[kizuato]

Here is link where my question has come : http://i.imgur.com/iuYKda5.png
can anyone tell me why?
I always thought Ely (also Beogh) needs more buff to use.

Ely is god who Hard to gain piety, Easy to use up all of them.

Its heal ability is not that bad, but when you're Deep Dwarf, gaining piety can't follow it's consumption.

Pacify monster ability, comparing with other god,
Lugonu : powerful even when low Inv level, easy to gain piety.
Gozag : No Inv. Money talks.
Ely : Hard to gain piety but use same as Lugonu, Need high Inv level to use it, 100% fail when Inv level is low.

And it's final ability, Divine Vigour. is totally useless.
Wonder. why they don't re-balance Ely & Beogh.

[WingedEspeon]

Divine vigor is not useless. It buffs your HP by 50% at 27 ivo. Pacify is REALLY STRONG with high enough invo. Like I don't have to fight the ancient liches in zot anymore strong. With decent invo it can also effectively one-shot Leary.

Also, divine protection is about as good as DDoor at 0% fail even with 0 invo.

Ely is probably best of characters that are already strong and want to make sure that their chance of death reduced to approximately 0. She works really well with vine stalkers partly for this reason.

The maker of that tier list does seriously underestimates the power of gozag.

[Sar]

Can you please explain how getting a lot more HP by pressing a button is"totally useless"?

[KoboldLord]

If you train invocations heavily, an Elyvilonite can choose to skip any battle that looks like it might be tough, or sometimes even irritating, so long as the monster involved isn't mindless. You can just say, 'No, I don't want to fight Rupert today. I think I'll just edit that out,' and Rupert will be gone and you'll still have access to the rest of the xp and loot on the floor. If you're good at recognizing which fights are tough ones, you should have plenty of piety to do this as much as you like. Your smite-targeted instakill ability has a very good success rate, assuming you've heavily trained invocations, and why wouldn't you heavily train invocations for a deity that has a smite-targeted instakill?

[Greyr]

That tier list is overly convoluted and not really useful. I would not take it seriously.

HOWEVER, what you CAN take seriously is Ely being S/A tier in, like, every imaginable scenario Crawl can throw at you.

[dynast]

Ely is also a nice backup god.

[MainiacJoe]

If you're good at recognizing which fights are tough ones

Reminds me of the old adage, "Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgment."

[MainiacJoe]

One more positive aspect of Ely is that her high Invocations reward is shared by the other two good gods. So if you want to switch to Zin or TSO, not only do you get to keep some piety, you also keep the return on the investment that you made in Invocations.

[Pollen_Golem]

Divine vigor is not useless. It buffs your HP by 50% at 27 ivo.

Greater healing costs half as much piety and heals an average of 36 HP at 27 invo. So greater healing and divine vigor break even if you have 144 HP, with divine vigor being better at higher HP. But it's the low-HP characters that are likelier to worship and have a use for Ely. And divine vigor has the disadvantage that it can be "wasted" if you end up not needing it, because you have to turn it on ahead of time. Whereas greater healing has a much smaller margin of possibility for getting "wasted", because you activate it closer to when you're having an emergency. So I see OP's point.

edit: You also lose more HP to special effects like torment and flay if you invoke Divine Vigor rather than Greater Healing at appropriate moments.

Although divine vigor also gives you MP, and if you care about MP, there's that.

[kizuato]

Can you please explain how getting a lot more HP by pressing a button is"totally useless"?

I'm not sure when to use it. it last only short time and cost high piety.
...yeah. piety is biggest problem.
Pacify is usually better choice, and HP boost doesn't save me from long battle.
(well, it save me from Instakill though.)

[duvessa]

i agree. that's why i turn off autopickup of heal wounds potions and wands

[kizuato]

If you train invocations heavily, an Elyvilonite can choose to skip any battle that looks like it might be tough, or sometimes even irritating, so long as the monster involved isn't mindless. You can just say, 'No, I don't want to fight Rupert today. I think I'll just edit that out,' and Rupert will be gone and you'll still have access to the rest of the xp and loot on the floor. If you're good at recognizing which fights are tough ones, you should have plenty of piety to do this as much as you like. Your smite-targeted instakill ability has a very good success rate, assuming you've heavily trained invocations, and why wouldn't you heavily train invocations for a deity that has a smite-targeted instakill?

Here is dilemma. train Inv heavily means lack of other battle skills in mid-game. sometimes I feel I can kill them all if I didn't train Inv skill.
Instakill effect is awesome. but Lugonu's banishment is way better in early-mid game without training. & against mindless & piety gain.
Well.. but most serious problem is piety gaining. How you guys gain piety with Ely?
Do I have to keep Faith amulet all the time?

[Sar]

I'm not sure when to use it.

Comes with experience, I guess.

I remember using it before fighting strong uniques I really wouldn't fight otherwise. Combine with berserk for even more HP. Having something like 300 HP before even getting a single rune is fun (I was a Naga, admittedly).

[prozacelf]

Even if you never plan to use Divine Vigour, it pays to have high invo with Ely. Greater healing and purification are worth every bit of investment, and pacification is still overpowered. Divine protection can also let you get away with taking more risks than you would otherwise, even if you wind up rarely using it.

With this guy ( http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 234708.txt ) I primarily just laid into dudes with my axe and threw javelins or tomahawks, but I didn't get 27 invocations skill just to have a cute title. Note that I never actually used Heal Other in that game, and the only time I used Vigor was to boost up my stats when I left the dungeon. Even without using two of the most powerful abilities in the game I was practically unkillable.