Demonspawn mutations: favoring of melee?

[TwoLeggedMammal]

Demonspawn are my favorite race due to their fun mutations, but in practice I have trouble keeping them from splatting. I think the problem is that usually I try to make them casters or light armor hybrids, and they feel really underpowered in the spell slinging category. When I'm a pure caster, there are just so many mutations with no use:

- Any appendage mutation other than antenna
- Spiky, foul stench, powered by pain, augmentation

Even something like Demonic Guardians, which I love, tend to pop up only when a caster is in deep trouble, whereas a heavily armored fighter can wade into big packs and survive hits while their guardians help out. So as a caster I end up getting spells much later than I like, and getting these random, not super helpful effects in exchange.

This time around I'm rolling monks with heavy armor and it's going much better. Things like claws, horns and hooves do make up for having slightly lower melee aptitudes, and miasma/spiky and powered by pain are great in exchanges where many blows are being traded.

Is this something that everyone else already knew? Are demonspawn bad casters even though their aptitudes don't make it obvious?

[Sar]

- Any appendage mutation other than antenna

Most of them aren't super-helpful in melee either.

- Spiky, foul stench, powered by pain

Defensive mutations, not what I'd call useless even if you mostly cast spells. PbP specifically restores some mana, and agility procs are obviously useful.

augmentation

Gives spellpower boost.

[WingedEspeon]

Augmentation is better with ranged weapon because (kill it before it gets into melee->don't take damage->deal more damage->kill it before it gets into melee). Spirit shield favors casters. Spiny and foul stench probably do favor melee a little bit. appendages usually just take up gear slots, with the exception of claws on a monk. Nightstalker can be a bit bad for a ranged build.

[BugHunter]

Spiny has less effect the more AC you have, so it is more useful on low-AC characters like casters. You don't want to rely on it, but when something does get into melee range, having them damage themselves is actually pretty useful. I'm playing a DsWz right now that has it, and it's nice to see a monster move next to me and die before I get a chance to attack it.

It's not your primary killdudes by any means, but it helps when you really need help the most.

[TwoLeggedMammal]

- Spiky, foul stench, powered by pain

Defensive mutations, not what I'd call useless even if you mostly cast spells. PbP specifically restores some mana, and agility procs are obviously useful.

augmentation

Gives spellpower boost.

Ah, I didn't know about the MP or spellpower boost. In that case augmentation seems pretty great since (and I'm about to make a big blanket statement) spellcasters spend more time at full health.

[dynast]

Powered by pain also gives !magic effect.

[chequers]

Spiny has less effect the more AC you have,

false

[BugHunter]

Spiny has less effect the more AC you have,

false

Well the wiki has been known to be wrong from time to time, but it says:

Spiny Damage
Spiny 1: 2d5 - AC - Encumbrance Rating/3.
Spiny 2: 2d5 or 3d5 (equal odds) - AC - Encumbrance Rating/3.
Spiny 3: 3d5 - AC - Encumbrance Rating/3.

So if that's anywhere close to correct, it sure looks to me like better AC and more encumbrance (which generally goes with better AC) would make it have less effect (i.e. do less damage).

So is the wiki completely wrong?

[chequers]

int dmg = roll_dice(1 + mut, 5);
int hurt = attacker->apply_ac(dmg);

[Siegurt]

Spiny has less effect the more AC you have,

false

Well the wiki has been known to be wrong from time to time, but it says:

Spiny Damage
Spiny 1: 2d5 - AC - Encumbrance Rating/3.
Spiny 2: 2d5 or 3d5 (equal odds) - AC - Encumbrance Rating/3.
Spiny 3: 3d5 - AC - Encumbrance Rating/3.

So if that's anywhere close to correct, it sure looks to me like better AC and more encumbrance (which generally goes with better AC) would make it have less effect (i.e. do less damage).

So is the wiki completely wrong?

It's out of date, this was changed a while back.

[BugHunter]

Oh, well that's different. nevermind.
</emily_litella>

[Lacuenta]

So if I understand correctly, damage is now: (1+mutlvl)d5?
Do slaying bonusses affect spiny damage?