Eight Pluses

[tedric]

  Code:

Add the robe of vines
The +3 robe of vines {Regen++++++++}. That's 8 plusses.

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/46ae38645ce45a0c324cb6981f507e422121ef37

is this a joke

[Lasty]

Nope. Poorly considered, perhaps, but not a joke.

There was some discussion of adding "no device heal" to it, which I'll probably do this evening.

[Sar]

Is it really that good to warrant such a nerf? I mean, somebody said it will make your char regen like 3 HP per turn. A +0 plate mail makes your char lose ~5 HP less from pretty much every attack. Probably good for turncounts though.

[Lasty]

My take is that this is a pretty good but not great piece of armour; adding no device heal would make it significantly worse. When I add no device heal, I'll probably give it a small buff at the same time to bring it back up to "pretty good but not great".

[Sar]

what if it also made you regenerate MP really fast or something

[nago]

Or gives spirit shield and some mp mor...oh wait

Ok sry kinda stupid post I guess

More seriosly, it should be a nice buff to balance a bit no-device heal and to make it a worthwhile alternative to other normal armour, imho.

[byrel]

Any notion of what buff you'll give? I mean, I don't think it's unbalanced as it is. A lot of characters I'd trade it out for TLA. But it's fun and interesting. No device heal on a non-swappable slot is also fun and interesting, but a huge negative.

Maybe tack on plant resistances? I don't think rPois, rN+++, rCorr would be unreasonable... they're all fairly weak resistances most places, and this is still a +3 robe which is generally suboptimal.
Edit: Or... you could just add another 6-8 plusses. It actually would be a very interesting choice then.

[greedo]

Is it really that good to warrant such a nerf? I mean, somebody said it will make your char regen like 3 HP per turn. A +0 plate mail makes your char lose ~5 HP less from pretty much every attack. Probably good for turncounts though.

While this is true, a +0 plate mail can tank your EV while a robe does not. I'd compare robe for robe, in which case this is pretty good. Wouldn't nerf it imo, though.

[tedric]

  Code:

Cleaning up no device heal and giving it to robe of vines
Robe of vines also got +2 AC and two more Regen ticks for good measure.

https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fb768fe832d99c03cc212943c01c8d0e65d36082

this commit is neither a nerf, nor a buff. discuss amongst yourselves.

[Wahaha]

It's a nerf.

[byrel]

I think it's a nerf... but I'd probably wear it till it killed me on some characters. And it would depend somewhat on the character; a spriggan would definitely find it a buff as it gives more precious AC, it's easy to generate time in combat, and the regen is huge for their HP pool.

What's the hunger cost associated with this?

[njvack]

I will totally wear it, because it is awesome and I like unrands even if they're suboptimal.

[byrel]

Yeah, I try to squeeze interesting unrands into my build. This one definitely counts. It's also a speedrunners dream. 8HP per breadswing.

[tasonir]

Strong buff to Ru characters who sac potions, you can still use draw out power. I don't think it'll appeal to characters who want heavy armor, but it may have general appeal to light armor characters who would be wearing a robe/leather anyways. +5 on a robe is decent ac early on, might not hold up forever though.

[byrel]

Yeah, it seems to me like it'd be best on super low damage high defenses characters like a Sp or Ko with shield, a pile of EV, and decent AC. I remember once spending 10k turns on Dis:7 with a spriggan enchanter with a +9 elec dagger for damage trying to kill hell sentinels. This robe would have been incredible.

[greedo]

Yeah, I try to squeeze interesting unrands into my build. This one definitely counts. It's also a speedrunners dream. 8HP per breadswing.

I don't think breadswinging would even be a thing for a speedrunner with this.

As for the change, well at this rate we could give it -tele, rFCEN- and add like 10 more pluses

[araganzar]

i sure hope my vinestalker finds this robe!

[Siegurt]

It'd be quite nice for a troll (or ogre) too.

[tasonir]

VS would be an interesting use case - the no device heal is meaningless to them, so they just get an extra 3hp/10 aut on top of their usual .6 bonus (regen 3 is only .6? sounds so low, now that I look at it). So 3.6 + your base regen rate, should see over 4 hp/10 aut generally, and 5 with regen spell.

[byrel]

It's up to 10 +s, which is 4 regen per 10 aut. You're looking at 5 per 10 aut on a VS probably, with 6 when regen is up.

[tasonir]

Ah wow, no idea how I got that wrong - each regen mod is .4 hp/10 aut, not .3. Thanks for the correction.

I was even on the wiki regeneration rate page, which has the correct value right there in front of my face. Note there's several things that need to be updated on the page. For example trolls can use TLA and nagas/chei followers now get their full regeneration/hunger while walking are the two that stand out to me - anyone see anything else that needs to be updated?

[Kolbur]

It's funny that some people are thinking that this robe is not good.

[byrel]

Well it needs to be compared to good light armour. Mottled dragon is easy to come by and gives substantially more ac without a crippling disadvantage.

Regen is great but your biggest threats take big chunks of hp at a time which this doesn't help with. It's pretty good for a robe but robes are rarely optimal armour.

[Hurkyl]

Well it needs to be compared to good light armour. Mottled dragon is easy to come by and gives substantially more ac without a crippling disadvantage.

Regen is great but your biggest threats take big chunks of hp at a time which this doesn't help with. It's pretty good for a robe but robes are rarely optimal armour.

AC doesn't help with big chunks of HP at a time either (unless you're talking big chunks of AC).

Having 6 extra AC will tend to "boost" your HP total by around 3 every time you get hit by way of preventing damage. Having 300 extra regen points will boost your HP total by 3 every 10 auts always; the regen sounds like a better deal if you're not getting hit more rapidly than once per 10 auts.

(of course, we really should be taking into account the GDR, all of the armor penalties, AC bypassing effects, low damage rolls, and the ability to spend enchant armor scrolls on other things too if we really wanted to make an accurate comparison)

[sanka]

I do not think that mottled dragon armour means only +6 AC because in mottled dragon armour you most likely will train armour skill a little bit. The robe is still good of course, but there are better armours.