Switching from Trog

[Atma]

So after finally getting a kenku monk of trog off the ground (pardon the pun) following many frustrating early deaths, I'm now level 12 with a shiny +5 ring of slaying and a collection of branded crossbows from the ice cave that I just cleared out. My only trip to Zot so far was a kobold berserker who got smited to death soon after coming down the first set of stairs, so I'm a little leery about taking in another berserker. Now I've found a staff of air lying around and I'm wondering whether it might be a better idea to switch gods at some point in the future and work on my air magic. I'd rather not get mashed to a paste by trog's wrath though, so...

1) Is it worth it switching from Trog to Vehumet?
2) If I am going to switch, what's the best way to ride out Trog's wrath?

Thanks!

[mrbobbyg]

If you abandon Trog at level 12, you are going to die, die, die.

If you do manage to survive, it will be possible, if tough to bootstrap into air magic. Vehumet does gift some useful books, but remember, he doesn't drop Tornado.

[slowcar]

I have won as a berserker already, it was manageable in Zot, only the fire orbs were a real danger. A quickblade with antimagic helped an awful lot though, as did a rod with abjuration.
Trogs Wrath is quite something, raging stone giants, unless you can levitate over lava for a long time (they can cross deep water now). I'd say the switch is only worth it if you can fight them off, which is most likely not the case at lvl 12.
Probably it's easier to play a caster kenku to lvl 12 than to switch now. Maybe a Kenku Crusader, starting off with Okawaru (his wrath is much easier to stomach).
I would say switching is not worth it with your character (albeit i don't know much about him), i'd stay with Trog, at least until around lvl 20 where his wrath would not mean instant death.

[Atma]

Thanks, so switching is out I guess. Now that I've found a +4s +5d robe and a poison sabre I'm feeling better about staying with trog anyway. Any suggestions for survivability? Like how big a shield is reasonable if I'd like a backup to my EV?

[pratamawirya]

Trog is perfectly fine for a three rune game.

Generally, use the largest shield you can use. You might want to use a sling too.

[Atma]

What if I had a 3/10 crossbow of frost?

[pratamawirya]

A crossbow gets slowed down really bad when you use a shield, even a buckler. So you shouldn't use a shield if you want to shoot with that crossbow. But then if you don't use any shield, you better maximize your damage output by using a two-handed weapon.

[mrbobbyg]

A buckler will be a big help. If you have a shield, you could maybe start with that if your careful, but stay away from large shields until you get some serious shield skill.

[slowcar]

I agree with the buckler. Since i learned that staffs are 1h weapons i use a buckler in all my games (well, except unarmed maybe) as soon as i find one. most species need only 5 skill to mitigate all penalties, and it adds another line of defense to your character.

Wait until Trog gifts you a weapon with the antimagic brand, it helps tremendously against everything that casts real spells.
Be careful with berserk, don't use it when other enemies can join the fight later on.

Slings is a very good tip, they don't need high ranks, work well with a shield and silver bullets with their double damage against demons/undead are increadible helpful.
Don't level it higher than 4 or 5 before you have a good weapon though, Trog will gift you slings and ammunition like there is no tomorrow otherwise. When you have a nice weapon (i got a +3 quickblade of antimagic from him, enchanted it up to 9 and used it the full game) absolutely go for it. Bullets are heavy though, don't be too tight with them, after a while you leave them on the floor anyhow, better to kill some monsters with them.

Trogs Piety is quite nice to have, if it is high he sends some quite powerful companions. As they rage they can take 3-4 monsters of their own kind, stone giants are quite terrifying this way.
If you are unsure to win a fight against a powerful unique don't berserk right away, better use Trogs Hand and then call a companion, if you need the extra power go berserk, but if you get exhausted and slowed during a fight it may well be your last.
Mennas, for example, justifies two companion calls just when you see him

[Atma]

I just found an amulet of faith this afternoon along with the gong shield. Now I'm putting my useless mp to work for me, even if I have to invest a little extra getting my shields skill up to 15. And the weapons and ammo are pouring in...

[pratamawirya]

Faith is good, especially for ammo gifting. Steel and silver bolts/bullets will really save your day. Save your enchant weapon scrolls for them.

If you want to take the amulet off, make sure you have a way to replenish your piety. The Hive can be a really good source of piety.

Gong is... dangerous

[slowcar]

i used gong for some time, but in the rune branches you will want a replacement. vault can be downright brutal with it, the whole screen filling up with monsters.

stabbing is also a nice thing as a berserker, you can often insta-kill sleeping monsters with a short blade (with a dagger and some stabbing even the royal jelly).

[pratamawirya]

stabbing is also a nice thing as a berserker, you can often insta-kill sleeping monsters with a short blade (with a dagger and some stabbing even the royal jelly).

^ This.

Keep your Stabbing and Stealth on.

[Atma]

I managed to clear the swamp with the gong. It was an adventure. I even managed to survive a hit from the Lernaean hydra (barely). Still looking for a half decent replacement for the gong...
What's better, ring of +6 str or 0/5 slaying?

[KoboldLord]

What's better, ring of +6 str or 0/5 slaying?

+5 slaying to damage is, all by itself, one of the best possible rings in the game, outshining most artifacts.

+anything to strength is nearly worthless unless your strength is so low that your character is non-functional without the extra carrying capacity.

[Atma]

Thanks that's helpful, yet surprising. You'd think +6 to str would be good for something aside from carrying stuff.

[Atma]

I just got gifted the Sword of Power (appropriately similar to the Atma Weapon in FFVI). Is there any good reason not to do some victory dancing to get it usable? I've got that giant +4 to long blades from my short blades skill already. Beside that, it's the blade of Power! How could that not be awesome?

[XuaXua]

I just got gifted the Sword of Power (appropriately similar to the Atma Weapon in FFVI). Is there any good reason not to do some victory dancing to get it usable? I've got that giant +4 to long blades from my short blades skill already. Beside that, it's the blade of Power! How could that not be awesome?

It's just a name. What are the stats? Use danr's excel chart to map it out.

[slowcar]

I just got gifted the Sword of Power (appropriately similar to the Atma Weapon in FFVI). Is there any good reason not to do some victory dancing to get it usable? I've got that giant +4 to long blades from my short blades skill already. Beside that, it's the blade of Power! How could that not be awesome?

It's just a name. What are the stats? Use danr's excel chart to map it out.

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?t ... d_of_Power

No experience with the weapon. Personally i would not like to give up a shield, but it looks tempting

[Atma]

I've been doing some dancing and have it at lv 11. At full HP it does massive, nearly undodgable damage. Than I swap in my quickblade to finish them off after my hp gets below 120 or so. In a pinch I can go berserk and put it past the +20 cap. I'm pretty happy with it.