Caustic Shrikes

[Hurkyl]

Static Discharge does more damage the more enemies it hits?

...really?

IIRC, the effect is two-fold:

• You shoot one arc for each enemy adjacent to you, up to some random limit, or something like that
• It's better when electricity arcs to other enemies rather than back to you

[Siegurt]

Static Discharge does more damage the more enemies it hits?

...really?

Well, it hits one adjacent critter, and might hit more adjacent critters, and every critter that gets hit can hit creatures that are adjacent to those and so on.

So when you have two critters next to you, you can hit both of them, and then they can each hit each other, and so on until it fails to jump. When you hit two critters adjacent to each other, you double your chances to hit each creature.

[duvessa]

The important part is this line:

  Code:

const int num_targs = 1 + random2(random_range(1, 3) + pow / 20);

That's the maximum number of arcs the cast will create, but it can only make one arc for each adjacent monster. Since every arc can hit every target, a greater number of arcs will mean greater single-target damage. But if the number of targets exceeds the number of arcs by a big enough margin then you'll get less single target-damage instead, since each individual arc gets split up more. 2 is not a bad rule. This also means static discharge is ass against monsters that are adjacent to monsters that are not adjacent to you, since you get an extra place for the arcs to go without the possibility of an extra arc to make up for it.

[bel]

While I am glad to have learnt something about static discharge (this is DCA after all), this does not change the essential point, which I made in my previous post. If you have multiple shrikes surrounding you, you will also get hit more, even if you also have more damage arcs (the number is not close to doubled in my wizmode testing, but even if it were, wouldn't change this).

In my opinion static discharge is good for taking out packs of relatively easy monsters (at least this is the way I used it till now, even though I didn't know the exact mechanics). If I tried it on a pack of relatively tough monsters, I usually got whacked, because of the effect referred to above.

Also, this thread has been gone on too long, and I have nothing more to say other than repeating my points, so I will stop unless something new is suggested.

[kroki]

isnt static discharge simply too weak to deal with caustic shrikes? we are talking about the worst shit you can find in depths, and it comes in pack. i dont think any character whose plan is to use 3rd lvl spell against shrikes will survive 3 turns surrounded by them.

[ajon]

I think chain lightning is the grown up version of static discharge.

[dowan]

If you can cast chain lightning, most of your non rElec problems are already solved, in my experience.

[byrel]

isnt static discharge simply too weak to deal with caustic shrikes? we are talking about the worst shit you can find in depths, and it comes in pack. i dont think any character whose plan is to use 3rd lvl spell against shrikes will survive 3 turns surrounded by them.

It's not that hard to survive against shrikes. !resist, !agi, and haste. If you have decent defenses (OP was really crippled in this regard because Og. But that's an Og disadvantage, and part of their design) that's enough to let you tank easily 10 turns vs a couple shrikes. If you have regeneration or a /hw, you can survive much longer. And all these defensive preperations are pretty much not related to having good offense vs them. Lightning bolt isn't very good, so if you're running around using it to kill things, but without chain lightning online (perhaps because you've been training defenses or utility spells), static discharge sounds quite reasonable. I'd also set up a lightning spire in that case off to the side.

Edit: OTOH, I agree that you shouldn't expect to kill them FAST with static discharge. It IS level 3, so you'll have to burn consumables to get it to work.

[Lasty]

In terms of burning consumables to fight things, don't forget !brilliance. Static discharge wouldn't be my first choice for fighting shrikes, but if it's all you've got you should probably quaff brilliance first. For that matter, if you're using any kind of spells against them, !brilliance will probably help.

[duvessa]

I think chain lightning is the grown up version of static discharge.

chain lightning only makes one arc so it is always better used as a single-target spell

[Sandman25]

I think the main issue is that these guys are airdropped into a normal level via a vault, and don't occur as natural spawns.

There's a problem if on the rare occasion, you get a disproportionate difficulty spike but on most games it's just smooth going because you happened not to get one particular vault. It's not really that the shrikes themselves are too hard or depths is too easy, it's just that this doesn't really fit the flow of the game.

I am not sure if it is what you want but yes, I would love to see 3-5 Caustic Shrikes on every depths level. Usuaully you can pick one type of consumable and use it vs all Caustic Shrikes, it would be fun to run out of !resistance, !agility and even consider abandoning Trog for Chei.

[Sar]

yeah because fighting both shrikes and berserking giants sure beats fighting only shrikes

[Sandman25]

yeah because fighting both shrikes and berserking giants sure beats fighting only shrikes

This is why I wrote "consider". I remember some games where I teleported multiple times in a row because of Caustic Shrikes and co, nothing would change if there were berserking giants also

[Hurkyl]

I think chain lightning is the grown up version of static discharge.

chain lightning only makes one arc so it is always better used as a single-target spell

It's still a lot better when zapping a bunch of times between adjacent monsters than a few times between a single monster and you.

[duvessa]

generally when i cast chain lightning its because i want to kill a monster
having more monsters around makes it worse at killing that monster

[Hurkyl]

generally when i cast chain lightning its because i want to kill a monster
having more monsters around makes it worse at killing that monster

Sometimes you want to kill two monsters. Chain Lightning is pretty good at that too.

And I'm pretty sure that if a monster is not very near to you, then Chain Lightning is actually better at killing one monster if it has a single buddy just behind it, since you get more bounces if they don't have to bounce very far. (and you don't hurt yourself in the process either!)

[Sharkman1231]

Does anyone else just skip Depths? I avoid exploring it when I can. I tend to have 8 ?mapping scrolls after getting my third rune, and just dive down to Zot 5. It's not hard to avoid shrikes when you only see <10% of Depths.

[Aule]

Does anyone else just skip Depths? I avoid exploring it when I can. I tend to have 8 ?mapping scrolls after getting my third rune, and just dive down to Zot 5. It's not hard to avoid shrikes when you only see <10% of Depths.

I don't skip anything. Skipping content to me is ludicrous. Why play only part of a game? But I'm not trying to squirrel away -ahem- wins, either; I'm just trying to enjoy a game I took a liking to. Winning is certainly nice, but it's actually a sad moment for me to exit the dungeon with the character I've built to survive all threats, only to be faced with a morgue file, just the same. As life, is Crawl, with that final, mortal end.

[mps]

Well, "not skipping anything" is a conduct, not a strategy. On the other hand, I generally find I'd like the xp from depths. I'd like to see examples of winning characters who've done the skipping depths thing.

[Sharkman1231]

Well, "not skipping anything" is a conduct, not a strategy. On the other hand, I generally find I'd like the xp from depths. I'd like to see examples of winning characters who've done the skipping depths thing.

The vast majority of my recent wins skip as much of depths and Zot as possible. I try to go from U1 to Z5 fighting as little as possible (usually). I tend to get lazy going through depths, so I end up dying from stupid mistakes, so to avoid that I just go straight for the orb.

DrVM
DrFi
DsWz
HOAK

Probably around 80% of my past 50 wins (?) I skip Depths and Zot1-4, it's less risk of me dying. I'm not sure when I got in the habit of skipping U, might have been around the .16 tourney.

[Jeremiah]

I generally don't skip Zot or Depths because I would prefer the levels to be as clear as possible, and the layout known, in case I have to teleport or otherwise get in trouble on the orb run.

The only things I would skip are areas you don't have to go through on the orb run, eg Crypt, Elf, V:5.

[mopl]

When trying to get a good score, I always skip Zot:1-4, and explore as little Depths as I can.

But genereally speaking, I feel like Zot:1-4 is pretty easy. Inv make draconian packs a joke, and by the time you get there, other monsters are beatable...

[Sandman25]

DrVM
DrFi
DsWz
HOAK

I treat it as XP penalty, those combos are very easy for a player of your level.

[Sharkman1231]

DrVM
DrFi
DsWz
HOAK

I treat it as XP penalty, those combos are very easy for a player of your level.

Yeah, but my past 75ish wins was me doing the great Mf/Dr/Mo, so I dunno.

[Sprucery]

I definitely want all the loot and exp from Depths and Zot and want the levels to be clear for the orb run, so I don't skip anything.

My DDFi of Ely (years ago) was almost out of food so I dived Zot and teleninja'd the orb then.

[Jeremiah]

Maybe each of the Hells should have its own shrike:
Cocytus has shard shrikes.
Move caustic shrikes to Dis, buff them if necessary.
Volcanic shrikes (magma bolt) in Gehenna
Shadow shrikes (ghostly fireball or similar) in Tartarus

[Zargon]

Haste + !Resistance + ?Vulnerability + mass confusion = cute little birdie xp in the bag. Not tried discord, but that might be even more fun...

[ZipZipskins]

I was about to complain about thread necromancy on this pile of garbage but then I read

Caustic Shrikes with the Executioners in Gloorx Vloq's realm of pandemonium

and holy deep sea diver this is bcadren's greatest triumph of an idea

and I would have forgotten it otherwise

[Sar]

caustic executioners, because high AC chars should know the pain too

[ZoFy]

Haste + !Resistance + ?Vulnerability + mass confusion = cute little birdie xp in the bag. Not tried discord, but that might be even more fun...

Unfortunately, we're not allowed to have a good AoE Hex spell anymore and are supposed to spam Shadow Creatures instead. That's more "interesting".

[CanOfWorms]

Well the situation is better since now you don't actually need ?vuln due to shrikes not being rPois.

[ZoFy]

Well the situation is better since now you don't actually need ?vuln due to shrikes not being rPois.

That's a bit, ahem, confusing. Are you suggesting using Mephitic Cloud with 1/7 chance of success? Alistair's won't work on them since they are animals.

[CanOfWorms]

Oh, I never noticed that aspect. Well, back to Discord then!

[edgefigaro]

Frenzied Shrieks can wreck house. Luckilly, if you have dischord, you also have yaras.

[dowan]

Oh god this thread came back? Where's the unthank button?