byrel wrote:dowan wrote:As a more... sub-optimal combo, who isn't just a standard combo with a different name, such as a DgCj, KoEn, or something like that, the depths is far more difficult, even before the shrikes show up. The concentration of enemies makes it hard to have enough MP to deal with everything, and a lot of depths monsters have pretty good MR(Just like shrikes).
Are you listing these as the type of suboptimal combo you're talking about? Or are these the standard combo under different name? They look moderately easy to me, though I've never played either.
If these aren't examples of the combos you're talking about, I'm not sure quite what exactly you're talking about. Challenge combos? (Say, MuBe? I expect that would be rough. Or NaAr?) Some examples would be nice.
Yeah... good point, that was not clear at all. What I meant was, DgCj, KoEn, or something like that are what I would consider somewhat sub-optimal combos. Optimal combos are things like MiBe, HoGl, OgHu. These sub-optimal combos essentially don't use the main strategy of crawl, which is have a big weapon at min-delay with well trained defenses, and they usually rely on MP to kill threatening enemies. So even with perfect offense these types of characters get worn down in a fight, where the guy slashing away with a big sword can keep going much longer, since his offense never runs out.
The standard combo with a different name is referring to the fact that a DgCj who picks up a two hander and trains very good defenses, to the point where his main offense is his melee weapon, is really the same as a DgGl at that point, as he plays the exact same way in depths. An OgWz who picks up oka, and kills enemies mostly with his GSC and thrown rocks is the same idea.
I didn't mean challenge combos, just characters who don't go the standard route of melee and defenses. Of course, any character needs to train defenses, but obviously if you're training spellcasting and a few spell schools in addition to defensive skills, you don't have as much XP to spend on defense as a character who just needs to train a melee skill and defenses, and you typically can't have as heavy of armor as a character who isn't primarily casting spells.
Without rCorr (You guys know it's not guaranteed right?) shrikes are horrifying, especially if they show up when you're already low on MP from fighting something else.
How often do you not have a potion of resistance or two?
just to have people insist that depths is easy, shrikes are easy
Shrikes aren't easy. I don't think anyone said they were easy. I just want Depths to be harder. I also disagree that they're in any way game breaking, and gave advice on how to beat them.
The problem is that you have a lot of consumables and tools by depths. For a monster to be threatening, it needs to not be easily dealt with by a single consumable for a lot of characters. That's hard to design, but I think Shrikes do a good job.[/quote]
I don't think you were piling on really, you did give advice and said you found them difficult, that comment wasn't directed at what you said. But yeah, it does occasionally happen that I don't have a potion of resistance, and to be honest, until very recently I didn't know they protected against corrosion, I'm pretty sure that was added only recently (I could be wrong there). It does seem a little odd to have a monster that's challenging on its own spawn in packs, and only very rarely. It seems everyone agrees there's a consistency problem with them, except Duvessa, for whom everything after D5 is boring and easy. (Coincidence that the unique Duvessa appears around D5? I think not!)
Tuesday, 28th July 2015, 15:32 
