Evaluating armour (melee dude)


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Snake Sneak

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Post Monday, 18th November 2019, 23:54

Evaluating armour (melee dude)

Some time ago, I read somewhere (maybe here) that on a melee dude the most import factor for choosing body armour is GDR, and that enchantments, egos, etc. should only be considered as a bonus on top. I've been following that advice and it's worked out well so far.

However, in my current game (HuFi^Ru), I encountered a scenario that made me question this.
I was quite lucky and picked up a (vanilla) plate armour on D:3 or D:4. But then on D:5, I found this little beauty:
the +12 chain mail "Zoyrgh" {rF+ Str+3 Int-4 Dex+4}

This seems way better than vanilla plate, but that begs the question, where's the tipping point?
If it was only, say, +6 and only had rF+, would that be better than bog-standard plate? I really don't know.
Does anyone have a rule of thumb for making this kind of decision?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 19th November 2019, 00:37

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

Forget GDR, check total AC+EV and if the difference is small, consider resistances and other properties (slay+, stats etc.).
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Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 19th November 2019, 01:06

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

Sprucery wrote:Forget GDR, check total AC+EV and if the difference is small, consider resistances and other properties (slay+, stats etc.).

I've heard the AC+EV rule in the past also.

The argument for optimizing GDR generally seems to be that you avoid large damage spikes that way.
I'm not sure what the argument(s) in favour of the AC+EV rule are.

The difference in GDR between chain and plate is probably not that significant, but theoretically, the AC+EV rule could lead you to choose very low GDR armour and expose you to large damage spikes (especially if it's high EV and low AC).

Anyway, applying the rule in my case:
Vanilla plate: 16 AC + 3 EV (+ 9 SH)
Artifact chain: 26 AC + 5 EV (+ 10 SH)
So the artifact chain mail is clearly better according to that rule.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 19th November 2019, 01:20

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

GDR in practice makes a significant difference only in very weird circumstances, and even then it's not a large difference, and the largest differences are felt when you couldn't do anything about it anyway (an Octopode with lots of AC rings will feel somewhat squisher than a tank in platemail with the same AC, but you couldn't wear body armour in that case even if you wanted to)

If you pretend that GDR doesn't exist, and you select based on AC/EV/SH/Ability to cast spells, you'll select the optimal choice 99% of the time, and of the remaining 1% you'll definitely die to something other than a slightly-less-than-optimal body armour choice, so pretend it doesn't exist and don't tax your brain with minutiae.

In this case, yes, wear the crap out of that chain mail.

I don't know who told you to choose armour based on GDR, but please stop listening to them, it's bad advice :)
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 19th November 2019, 03:02

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

MrDizzy wrote:Some time ago, I read somewhere (maybe here) that on a melee dude the most import factor for choosing body armour is GDR
Can you tell me where you read this, so that I can use my +9 rapier of distortion on the people responsible

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 19th November 2019, 08:47

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

I think maximising AC + EV minimises the average damage you take. 'Average' is not well defined here, but it feels correct.

Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 19th November 2019, 14:49

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

GDR only applies against melee attacks. This fact alone suggests that it is one of the least (if not the least) important properties of armour.

Blades Runner

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Post Tuesday, 19th November 2019, 17:20

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

duvessa wrote:
MrDizzy wrote:Some time ago, I read somewhere (maybe here) that on a melee dude the most import factor for choosing body armour is GDR
Can you tell me where you read this, so that I can use my +9 rapier of distortion on the people responsible


You might want to send them to the abyss, but you leave the chance of simply teleporting them away.

I recommend the dark maul, or if that's too messy invoke a Zin lecture for some literal salt.

Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 20th November 2019, 07:24

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

duvessa wrote:Can you tell me where you read this, so that I can use my +9 rapier of distortion on the people responsible

It's funny. I've been searching for the reference, but I can't find it. Maybe I dreamt it.
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Dis Charger

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Post Thursday, 12th December 2019, 13:38

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

MrDizzy wrote:
duvessa wrote:Can you tell me where you read this, so that I can use my +9 rapier of distortion on the people responsible

It's funny. I've been searching for the reference, but I can't find it. Maybe I dreamt it.
You're not dreaming, I remember some people saying this.

Anyway
learndb wrote:"Guaranteed damage reduction" conferred by body armour that applies to melee attacks and ranged attacks from launchers (i.e. bow, crossbow, or sling) or thrown projectiles. Does not apply to attacks from spells, special abilities, or other items. Monsters do not have GDR, only players. If you're making equipment decisions based on this, please reconsider.
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Blades Runner

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Post Thursday, 12th December 2019, 16:49

Re: Evaluating armour (melee dude)

Yeah. The only attractive thing about GDR is that it's correlated to equipment with high AC. But that's because you get high AC, not because of GDR.

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