I think we learned an important lesson today.


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

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Zot Zealot

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Post Friday, 1st April 2011, 14:13

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

The 'spam it with imps thing' will deal with most problems in the Lair. This list does not include Rupert, who will get just injured enough to berserk, then chase you down and kill you dead.
I am sure I played flawflessly. This was an utmost unfair death. -- gorbeh

Lair Larrikin

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Post Sunday, 3rd April 2011, 09:10

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

I've learnt 3 lessons today.

The first two everyone knows: D:1 GDA will never be found by anything remotely suited for heavy armour (DrNe! (least it wasn't a Spriggan I guess) Though since I was going hybrid anyway I kept it and started grinding armour skill later on).

The second: Xom will meet any good luck with a dose of bad luck (mutation potion on D:2 gave berserkitis and hunger, no cure mutation pots, or other chances to mutate to be found the whole game).

And lastly: No matter how safe you feel, don't put heavy armour on in the open, as you get no chance to react to becomming a Hydra's breakfast. :(
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 4th April 2011, 18:46

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

DemonOfWrath wrote:And lastly: No matter how safe you feel, don't put heavy armour on in the open, as you get no chance to react to becomming a Hydra's breakfast. :(


It is really inconsistent (read: crap) that spell memorization interrupts exist, but eating/armoring-interruptus does not. Maybe with a "So-and-so comes into view, continue eating/putting on armor? Y/N" prompt and again with "You are being attacked by a so-and-so; continue eating/putting on armor? Y/N".
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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 4th April 2011, 19:01

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

XuaXua wrote:It is really inconsistent (read: crap) that spell memorization interrupts exist, but eating/armoring-interruptus does not. Maybe with a "So-and-so comes into view, continue eating/putting on armor? Y/N" prompt and again with "You are being attacked by a so-and-so; continue eating/putting on armor? Y/N".


There are too many annoying prompts as it is. I like the 'no interrupts' on eating, because your berserker needs to be satiated to berserk. As for donning armour, it kind of makes sense as a 'shirt over your head' condition.
Granted, I've been killed for donning armour a couple times myself.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 5th April 2011, 02:24

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Katak wrote:
XuaXua wrote:It is really inconsistent (read: crap) that spell memorization interrupts exist, but eating/armoring-interruptus does not. Maybe with a "So-and-so comes into view, continue eating/putting on armor? Y/N" prompt and again with "You are being attacked by a so-and-so; continue eating/putting on armor? Y/N".


There are too many annoying prompts as it is. I like the 'no interrupts' on eating, because your berserker needs to be satiated to berserk.

It could work if a partial food consumption would apply. Anyway, offtopic.

I learned today that big rations take three turns to eat, regardless of your race or character speed.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 5th April 2011, 02:51

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

I learned today that big rations take three turns to eat, regardless of your race or character speed.

Sounds like a hint to some worthy addition to the game.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 5th April 2011, 06:43

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Okawaru can gift you something in the same turn that your teleport kicks in. Resulting in you not getting your prezzie. This can happen in the Abyss.

Speaking of the Abyss, a legendary deck of escape can put you there. Don't draw from such decks.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 5th April 2011, 15:53

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

pratamawirya wrote:
I learned today that big rations take three turns to eat, regardless of your race or character speed.

Sounds like a hint to some worthy addition to the game.


I've submitted it to the dev wiki for discussion.

Today I learned that Sure Blade really is awesome.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Tuesday, 5th April 2011, 20:28

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Grimm wrote:Speaking of the Abyss, a legendary deck of escape can put you there. Don't draw from such decks.


To be more precise Damnation card will banish u to abyss but only if u dont have no monsters in sight.

Btw this card doesnt consider animated weapons as "monsters" so it will banish u instead :evil: :!:
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 01:20

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

I have learned that the ghosts of my lost characters are like my old characters on steroids. I don't think I would ever have pulled off spam summoning 10 ice beasts in a row while playing o.o;
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 16:28

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

galdon wrote:I have learned that the ghosts of my lost characters are like my old characters on steroids. I don't think I would ever have pulled off spam summoning 10 ice beasts in a row while playing o.o;


At least berserker ghosts don't seem to berserk, but they do keep your +6,+8 vorpal short swords.
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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 8th April 2011, 23:17

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

At least berserker ghosts don't seem to berserk, but they do keep your +6,+8 vorpal short swords.[/quote]
This is why I always wield a meat ration before I die.

Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 9th April 2011, 07:54

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

This was my most annoying and stupid death in any roguelike. Ever.

Put this:

  Code:
force_more_message = You are starting to lose your buoyancy


in your init.txt.

By default the game will warn you only when this happens while over water (Careful! ...) and force a "more" message. If you happen to be on a land square at just this moment - then not. You will miss the message and no matter how strong your character is you will drown horribly.

This might be considered a bug: You can be one turn from instantdeath and the game will not warn you at all. Iirc you get ample warnings when your hitpoints are low. I think you should get a warning every turn if you are over water/lava and levitate/fly is known to be running out.

Halls Hopper

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Post Saturday, 9th April 2011, 08:42

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Use-IDing crystal balls is unadvisable...

Doing so while you have teleportitis ON A LEVEL THAT'S NOT ENTIRELY EXPLORED is a recipe for YASD (man, that was so stupid...)
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Dungeon Master

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Post Saturday, 9th April 2011, 09:24

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

shiweera wrote:This was my most annoying and stupid death in any roguelike. Ever.

Put this:

  Code:
force_more_message = You are starting to lose your buoyancy


in your init.txt.

By default the game will warn you only when this happens while over water (Careful! ...) and force a "more" message. If you happen to be on a land square at just this moment - then not. You will miss the message and no matter how strong your character is you will drown horribly.

This might be considered a bug: You can be one turn from instantdeath and the game will not warn you at all. Iirc you get ample warnings when your hitpoints are low. I think you should get a warning every turn if you are over water/lava and levitate/fly is known to be running out.

I changed this recently. The old behaviour was to force a more prompt whenever levitation was expiring, which was sometimes very annoying. And there was no prompt for form expiration. The new behaviour tries to be smarter. You get a prompt if it starts expiring when you're over deep water / lava, but also when you enter such cell while your effect is expiring. So the only way to die without a prompt would be to fly over deep water and then have your levitation immediately expires. In this case, you still have a chance to scramble free. Is that what happened to you?
A better way to fix this than going back to the always prompt behaviour, like you suggested, would be to ask the player for confirmation when he tries to enter deep water / lava while his lev / form is expiring.
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Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 9th April 2011, 11:39

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

galehar wrote:I changed this recently. The old behaviour was to force a more prompt whenever levitation was expiring, which was sometimes very annoying. And there was no prompt for form expiration. The new behaviour tries to be smarter. You get a prompt if it starts expiring when you're over deep water / lava, but also when you enter such cell while your effect is expiring. So the only way to die without a prompt would be to fly over deep water and then have your levitation immediately expires. In this case, you still have a chance to scramble free. Is that what happened to you?
A better way to fix this than going back to the always prompt behaviour, like you suggested, would be to ask the player for confirmation when he tries to enter deep water / lava while his lev / form is expiring.


I thought I would always get at least a warning one turn before things expire. Maybe it happened to me that it immediately expired. I thought that I just missed the warning. The message backlog in the morgue file (which I do not have anymore unfortunately) did not go back very far - so no way to check. I played in the git version of a few weeks ago at most.
If flight/levitation can expire immediately then hovering over water for extended periods of time is fucking dangerous - didn't know that.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Saturday, 9th April 2011, 12:39

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

shiweera wrote:
galehar wrote:I changed this recently. The old behaviour was to force a more prompt whenever levitation was expiring, which was sometimes very annoying. And there was no prompt for form expiration. The new behaviour tries to be smarter. You get a prompt if it starts expiring when you're over deep water / lava, but also when you enter such cell while your effect is expiring. So the only way to die without a prompt would be to fly over deep water and then have your levitation immediately expires. In this case, you still have a chance to scramble free. Is that what happened to you?
A better way to fix this than going back to the always prompt behaviour, like you suggested, would be to ask the player for confirmation when he tries to enter deep water / lava while his lev / form is expiring.


I thought I would always get at least a warning one turn before things expire. Maybe it happened to me that it immediately expired. I thought that I just missed the warning. The message backlog in the morgue file (which I do not have anymore unfortunately) did not go back very far - so no way to check. I played in the git version of a few weeks ago at most.
If flight/levitation can expire immediately then hovering over water for extended periods of time is fucking dangerous - didn't know that.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. There's no warning "one turn before things expire", there never was. The expiring message is a few turns before the spell ends. There's always a message when your levitation starts expiring. If it happens over deep water, then you also get a more prompt. If you didn't get the more prompt (because the spell started to expire while you were over solid ground) and then go over deep water, you get another warning with a prompt. But it happens after your move, so if the spell ends on the same turn, you can drown before being warned with a more prompt. That's why maybe a confirmation message may be more appropriate.
Same logic is used for swimming/flying forms and also lava.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Saturday, 9th April 2011, 12:56

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

What I've noticed is that if I'm auto-traveling, I get the more prompt, but that doesn't stop my movement. It seems like prompts should always stop auto-movement.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Saturday, 9th April 2011, 13:04

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

jejorda2 wrote:What I've noticed is that if I'm auto-traveling, I get the more prompt, but that doesn't stop my movement. It seems like prompts should always stop auto-movement.

Good point. On the other hand, is this even possible to travel/autoexplore over deep water or lava unless you can do it permanently (boots of levitation/merfolk/grey drac/kenku)? I think it shouldn't be possible, and I thought it wasn't.
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Temple Termagant

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Post Saturday, 9th April 2011, 13:32

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

I just tried in wizard mode for the latest trunk version: Go to shoals, cast fly while on land. Wait until expire message pops up. Go into deep water: no warning. Wait a few turns. Die.

Edit: All Forms of auto travelling didn't work while flying over deep water.
2nd Edit: Tried again in wizard mode: I get the warning sometimes. Seemingly randomly.

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Dungeon Master

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Post Saturday, 9th April 2011, 15:28

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

I've implemented the confirmation prompt. This should be safer. Let me know if you keep drowning without warning.
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Halls Hopper

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Post Sunday, 10th April 2011, 16:55

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Don't walk around at Near Starving when there are vault rooms filled with eyeballs. I literally stood there while my berserk status faded and died.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 10th April 2011, 18:43

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

A dagger of draining can, when wielded against you at XL 1, drain all your tiny amount of XP and kill you in one blow.

Halls Hopper

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Post Sunday, 10th April 2011, 20:22

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

kiku's recieve corpses ability got horribly, horribly nerfed in the newest version. it is now useless. :cry:
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Zot Zealot

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Post Sunday, 10th April 2011, 21:05

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

The Mantis wrote:Don't walk around at Near Starving


Words to live by!
I am sure I played flawflessly. This was an utmost unfair death. -- gorbeh
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Barkeep

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Post Monday, 11th April 2011, 00:30

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

ghend wrote:kiku's recieve corpses ability got horribly, horribly nerfed in the newest version. it is now useless. :cry:


Really? Nerfed how? I was just gonna try a Ghoul of Kiku and was kinda counting on snacks...
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Post Monday, 11th April 2011, 08:44

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Crazy Yuif can, in a remarkable series of events, ignite the trees outside his hut, causing a wild forest fire, then confuse you, causing you to stumble into said fire, burning most of your scrolls and then you yourself just a couple of turns later.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 11th April 2011, 10:45

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

njvack wrote:
ghend wrote:kiku's recieve corpses ability got horribly, horribly nerfed in the newest version. it is now useless. :cry:


Really? Nerfed how? I was just gonna try a Ghoul of Kiku and was kinda counting on snacks...


Should still be alright for snacks. It summons up about 1-3 corpses of mediocre strength now, when before it was about 9 corpses and about 2-3 guranteed strong ones.

Temple Termagant

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Post Tuesday, 12th April 2011, 18:55

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

galehar wrote:I've implemented the confirmation prompt. This should be safer. Let me know if you keep drowning without warning.


Thanks. Tested again (but not extensively). Seems to work now.
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Barkeep

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Post Wednesday, 13th April 2011, 01:22

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

joellercoaster wrote:The 'spam it with imps thing' will deal with most problems in the Lair. This list does not include Rupert, who will get just injured enough to berserk, then chase you down and kill you dead.


The "spam it with snakes" thing will deal with most problems in the Lair, including Rupert. By the time he's done mowing through a dozen (or two) arrows' worth, he's almost dead, poisoned, and waiting for that last hit to finish him off.

They'll take down hydras, too.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 13th April 2011, 05:12

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

It is possible to reach D 7 without seeing a single wand or piece of jewellery.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Wednesday, 13th April 2011, 12:47

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

ghend wrote:
njvack wrote:
ghend wrote:kiku's recieve corpses ability got horribly, horribly nerfed in the newest version. it is now useless. :cry:


Really? Nerfed how? I was just gonna try a Ghoul of Kiku and was kinda counting on snacks...


Should still be alright for snacks. It summons up about 1-3 corpses of mediocre strength now, when before it was about 9 corpses and about 2-3 guranteed strong ones.


was
  Code:
3 + pow / 18; // 3 at 0 Inv, 9 at 27 Inv.


is now
  Code:
1 + random2(pow / 36); // 1 at 0 Nec, up to 4


I don't think there ever was guaranteed strong ones. Strength of corpses hasn't been changed appart from depending on necromancy instead of invocation.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2011, 05:57

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Do not fight ice beasts while wearing dragon armour.

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2011, 06:06

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Sprinter wrote:
Grimm wrote:Speaking of the Abyss, a legendary deck of escape can put you there. Don't draw from such decks.


To be more precise Damnation card will banish u to abyss but only if u dont have no monsters in sight.

Btw this card doesnt consider animated weapons as "monsters" so it will banish u instead :evil: :!:


This is not exactly true. Damnation is guaranteed to abyss you if there are no monsters in sight, but it still has a chance of banishing you if there are... which is probably what happened with this dancing weapon of yours.

Also, all types of escape deck can contain damnation. Hooray for escaping.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2011, 07:28

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Before going into an Ice Cave, make sure you have all the fire power you can possibly muster. In my specific case, take at least one recharging scroll for that wand of fire, so that you can take out the ice statue at the end of the cave instead of it taking out you.
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Blades Runner

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2011, 07:51

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

*one* ice statue? i hardly find less than two. and ice devils. and berserking polar bears. and sometimes a frost giant. may be my luck, but lately i've fared way, way worse than on any other kind of portal. bail out, or die! and that was with (near-bloodless) vampires or transmuters with ice form, so resistances were not the problem.

done rantin'!
Wins: DDBe (3 runes, morgue file)

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2011, 07:58

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

This one had imps, simulacra and freezing wraiths - these latter were the worst - then one ice statue at the end. I rushed it foolishly and got pinned by some summons. Even my flaming broad axe (tip of the visor to Okawaru) couldn't save my by then well-refrigerated bacon.
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Zot Zealot

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2011, 12:23

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

absolutego wrote:and sometimes a frost giant


I just teleportitis'ed my way straight into a room with a frost giant and his little gang of polar bears. And wolves. Always the wolves.

Fortunately, I got to leave the same way I came in! Then I stayed gone.

This then turned out to be a valuable lesson when the same Lair floor generated a Spider Nest portal. I didn't even go inside, just kept right on walking...
I am sure I played flawflessly. This was an utmost unfair death. -- gorbeh
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Zot Zealot

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2011, 15:48

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

2. Simulacra are vulnerable to Dispel Undead :)
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Barkeep

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2011, 19:14

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

'z' and 'a' are right next to each other. This does not mean that 'zd' (Animate Dead) do anything remotely similar to 'ad' (Summon Greater Servant).
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Thursday, 14th April 2011, 19:57

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

^Yeah, invoker / spellcasters can be a deathtrap for the unwary. There's nothing quite like activating the wrong spell or ability in a critical situation, just because you couldn't remember the difference between z and a.

My lesson for the day: Ossuaries are a paladins best friend. They're a piety bonanza!

Edit:

An Additional lesson: the Shinning One may disprove of your using poisoned weapons, but He's got nothing against you leading pesky ogres over needle traps. ;)

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 15th April 2011, 08:17

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

If you test a wand on a queen bee, and that wand turns out to be a wand of polymorph, one of the things that queen bee might turn into is a guardian serpent.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 15th April 2011, 09:15

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

They are now putting necromancers in Ice Caves, which is hardly fair, as you are all togged up for cold combat and these necromancers come throwing fire at you, with predictable results.

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Post Friday, 15th April 2011, 18:28

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Just tried Ash for the first time. The important lesson:

Do not convert ALL of your remove curse scrolls. You'll need a couple to upgrade your equipment...
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Blades Runner

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Post Friday, 15th April 2011, 22:39

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

When you draw Orb of Electrocution from a legendary Deck of Destruction, it can deal 105 damage to you even if you target something 2 squares away. The Wiki suggests 100 HP is safe. It is wrong.

Halls Hopper

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Post Saturday, 16th April 2011, 06:19

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

the abyss rune is far easier than the vault 8 rune. I didn't even see a single 1 all my time there, just lots of skeletal warriors.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Saturday, 16th April 2011, 15:21

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Hunters are so, so, sooooo hosed when beserked. Shoot my crossbow? Too beserk. Swap to axe? Too beserk. Wands? Spells? Just use your speed to run to the place where it's most convenient for the monsters to butcher your passed out not-yet-corpse.

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Post Sunday, 17th April 2011, 05:46

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

ctrl-f does not find trees or fungi

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6393

Joined: Friday, 17th December 2010, 18:17

Post Sunday, 17th April 2011, 06:25

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

If you are in the bailey with the big central lake with towers at the corners, please do not forget that there are teleport traps in the centers of the towers, because if you do forget, you will step on one, be teleported into the central death chamber, and lose your pretty awesome character.

Temple Termagant

Posts: 5

Joined: Saturday, 16th April 2011, 16:14

Post Sunday, 17th April 2011, 08:00

Re: I think we learned an important lesson today.

Well, that Death Yak is NOT a goat !

For this message the author Artan has received thanks:
joellercoaster
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