I think we learned an important lesson today.

[SchwaWarrior]

I got killed by Nikola the other night, but I would have survived if I had put on my Ring of Teleport Control, as I had the Blink spell. I didn't think to equip it as the only combo I thought was good with it was Ring of Teleport Control + Ring of Teleportation, and I didn't want to give up my +4 to Dexterity from the other ring. But when I mused over it later, I realized it would have been just fine with my Blink spell. That's what I learned from the experience.

And as far as the new Abyss goes, seriously, get Levitation and you're good. I mean there are things in there that will kill you, but as far as navigating the terrain goes, Levitation makes it about a billion times less stressful.

In the Icecave, if you see the light blue square after you decimate all of the ice beasts, DONT TOUCH IT. No matter how curious you are. It will only make you sad.

I've never seen a light blue square in the Ice Cave after an Ice Beast battle, and now I'm horribly curious. ;.; What happened with it?

[KoboldLord]

I've never seen a light blue square in the Ice Cave after an Ice Beast battle, and now I'm horribly curious. ;.; What happened with it?

It's like a teleport trap, but it takes you to a particular location instead of picking a location at random or allowing you to control your teleport. There's a few vaults that have one of these. Anyway, once you've killed all the monsters in the entry, you're supposed to use this thing to get to the room with the loot. Which also has more and tougher monsters, of course.

[rebthor]

Frederick fires iron bolt as hard as Cerebov, 3d36.

[Blade]

I didn't want to give up my +4 to Dexterity from the other ring.

...why not? +4 dex is very mediocre, and even if it was a randart ring of +everything, being alive is better than being dead.

[TehDruid]

Apparently, using LRD on a wall that keeps you away from the treasures in Elf is bound to draw a lot of attention.

[Sphara]

Entered Crypt:1 (swifted and DMSL) without rF and rN and landed on curse skulls exclusion area with Margery's band awoke... BANG! Instant torment and bolt of fire took 100HPs leaving me with about 50 left. I thought I was stupid immediatly climbing up the stairs (because I could have been killed with one fireball) instead of using my scrolls of blinking. However, it turned out later that the only area I could have blinked to was next to Khufu's band.
Lesson? When you think that you clear the first levels of crypt with just spamming dispel undead can lead into a situation where sheer luck saves your scrawny ass.

[SchwaWarrior]

...why not? +4 dex is very mediocre, and even if it was a randart ring of +everything, being alive is better than being dead.

Low stats make me sad is why. :'(

So in general then, are Resistance rings like rF and rC and whatnot typically wiser to wear than Stat+ rings? I thought +4 to any stat would be awesome because it'd normally take ten levels to get there the natural way, but then again I don't know what any of the algorithms mean when stats are calculated for stuff, I just know that "more = gooder" so I try to whore them up and maybe I shouldn't, I dunno x_x ugh

[crate]

...why not? +4 dex is very mediocre, and even if it was a randart ring of +everything, being alive is better than being dead.

Low stats make me sad is why. :'(

So in general then, are Resistance rings like rF and rC and whatnot typically wiser to wear than Stat+ rings? I thought +4 to any stat would be awesome because it'd normally take ten levels to get there the natural way, but then again I don't know what any of the algorithms mean when stats are calculated for stuff, I just know that "more = gooder" so I try to whore them up and maybe I shouldn't, I dunno x_x ugh

+4 to int/str/dex is usually not terribly important. Then again, for most enemies rF+ or rC+ is completely irrelevant as well, so if the +dex ring was giving you some EV or if you were a stabber it's ok to walk around with it on.

However, you should (unless you are with Ashenzari) be willing to swap rings around often, since it is fast to do so. So in your case, if you get into a situation that looks like it might call for running for your life, you should swap in the ctele ring right away--because semicontrolled blink is extremely good at letting you not die.

[KoboldLord]

...why not? +4 dex is very mediocre, and even if it was a randart ring of +everything, being alive is better than being dead.

Low stats make me sad is why. :'(

So in general then, are Resistance rings like rF and rC and whatnot typically wiser to wear than Stat+ rings? I thought +4 to any stat would be awesome because it'd normally take ten levels to get there the natural way, but then again I don't know what any of the algorithms mean when stats are calculated for stuff, I just know that "more = gooder" so I try to whore them up and maybe I shouldn't, I dunno x_x ugh

The ring of teleport control is freaking insanely overpowered. With the Blink spell or an artefact with +Blink on it, you get a one-action get-out-of-death-free card that is almost guaranteed to work against almost all enemies in the game. Yaktaurs pop out of nowhere, dropping you into red hp? ZOOOOP! Interrupt Mennas, Mara, and Boris having one of their little tea parties, and now they're after you? ZOOOOP! Tormented five times in one turn? ZOOOOP! One single semi-controlled Blink has a reasonable chance to carry you off the edge of LOS to the target you're trying to escape, at which point there's no monster in the game that can continue to attack you. You can reliably outrun Hasted executioners while you're waiting for your teleport to kick in. It's just nuts.

In an entire 15-Rune game of Crawl, you are unlikely to find two artifact rings that are both better than a plain old vanilla ring of teleport control. The ring of teleport control is comparable to an artifact ring that gives all the resistances. All of them. At once. To compare to it, your ring of +dex would probably need to put your dex up at around 72.

As it happens, the only effect that dexterity has that is actually useful for most characters is the impact it has on your EV stat. +4 to dex probably gave you a 1 or 2-point bump to EV, which means it is functionally equivalent to a ring of evasion with that plus. Not useless, but not all that great either.

[tormodpwns]

Mennas with 28 EV and a large shield will avoid every Slimify attack (is he even considered living?!). And he will drop your 160 HP 15/29/0 Ogre to 0 HP in 5 turns.

[SchwaWarrior]

The ring of teleport control is freaking insanely overpowered. With the Blink spell or an artefact with +Blink on it, you get a one-action get-out-of-death-free card that is almost guaranteed to work against almost all enemies in the game. Yaktaurs pop out of nowhere, dropping you into red hp? ZOOOOP! Interrupt Mennas, Mara, and Boris having one of their little tea parties, and now they're after you? ZOOOOP! Tormented five times in one turn? ZOOOOP! One single semi-controlled Blink has a reasonable chance to carry you off the edge of LOS to the target you're trying to escape, at which point there's no monster in the game that can continue to attack you. You can reliably outrun Hasted executioners while you're waiting for your teleport to kick in. It's just nuts.

In an entire 15-Rune game of Crawl, you are unlikely to find two artifact rings that are both better than a plain old vanilla ring of teleport control. The ring of teleport control is comparable to an artifact ring that gives all the resistances. All of them. At once. To compare to it, your ring of +dex would probably need to put your dex up at around 72.

So if I were proposing to my girlfriend one day, I should propose with a Ring of Teleport Control instead of a diamond ring, because they're that good and she's guaranteed to say yes? Sweet, thanks for the tips. ^^

Also, it's never been "ZOOOOP" when I warp around, it's usually "Zzhip" or "Vwip". Glad to know I've been doing it wrong, thanks again for showing me the right way

[TehDruid]

Or, you could get her a diamond ring of teleport control. Bitches love diamond rings of teleport control.

[Stormfox]

Never mind the ring of teleport control, I think she would much rather have the mythical ring of teleport OTHER control. So that even if you try to disappear, she'll be in charge of where you pop out.

[rebthor]

The ring of teleport control is freaking insanely overpowered. With the Blink spell or an artefact with +Blink on it, you get a one-action get-out-of-death-free card that is almost guaranteed to work against almost all enemies in the game. Yaktaurs pop out of nowhere, dropping you into red hp? ZOOOOP! Interrupt Mennas, Mara, and Boris having one of their little tea parties, and now they're after you? ZOOOOP! Tormented five times in one turn? ZOOOOP! One single semi-controlled Blink has a reasonable chance to carry you off the edge of LOS to the target you're trying to escape, at which point there's no monster in the game that can continue to attack you. You can reliably outrun Hasted executioners while you're waiting for your teleport to kick in. It's just nuts.

In an entire 15-Rune game of Crawl, you are unlikely to find two artifact rings that are both better than a plain old vanilla ring of teleport control. The ring of teleport control is comparable to an artifact ring that gives all the resistances. All of them. At once. To compare to it, your ring of +dex would probably need to put your dex up at around 72.

So if I were proposing to my girlfriend one day, I should propose with a Ring of Teleport Control instead of a diamond ring, because they're that good and she's guaranteed to say yes? Sweet, thanks for the tips. ^^

Also, it's never been "ZOOOOP" when I warp around, it's usually "Zzhip" or "Vwip". Glad to know I've been doing it wrong, thanks again for showing me the right way

I thought it was "BAMPF!"

[SchwaWarrior]

I thought it was "BAMPF!"

Maybe it depends. Because when I haphazardly put on a Cursed Ring of Teleportation, every time it warps me I go "Boink".

If Orcs are involved, it's "Boink, oh hi!"

Never mind the ring of teleport control, I think she would much rather have the mythical ring of teleport OTHER control. So that even if you try to disappear, she'll be in charge of where you pop out.

I dunno, man, she already has a seemingly endless supply of Scrolls of Fear and Potions of Berserk Rage, seriously she seems to have a new supply every month. No need for her to be overkill.

EDIT: Holy crap. >_< I just learned a new one, guys.

Do not fight freaking Necromancers if they show up on D:8. Bolt of Fire for 44 damage = one hit death at full health. Do Not Want.

Maybe this is one of those "Crawl actively tries to kill you if you have better stuff" scenarios. I had +1 Boots of Running before I even reached the Temple, Ashenzari on D:2, and I had even gone toe to toe with Grinder on D:4 and killed him, which felt fantastic. Then, bwoop, door opens, oh look a Necromancer and two Simulcariums, let's use Mephitic Cloud! *it wakes up and cats Bolt of Fire and ends my game in one turn* WHAT. WHY. WHYYYY WHY. ;_;

[SchwaWarrior]

*double post because I need a life*

How did Crawl kill me again today? Snake Pit 5, Naga Warrior all by himself.

Lesson learned: Bring Blink with you, whether it's Scrolls or a spell, any time you're going into areas with Constrict-toting enemies. It was my own fault for going in without either one; I had used them all up earlier and I really should have either stocked up in shops somewhere or combed a different area such as Elven Halls or the Shoals until I saved up a couple scrolls or found a Book of Wizardry/Party Tricks for the actual spell. Ah well.

By the way, Psyche's Dagger of Chaos is wonderful with high Stabbing skill! Consider this a second lesson; Chaos's tendancy to Confuse or Paralyze even poison-resistant monsters (that ignore my Mephitic Cloud) has FANTASTIC synergy with high Stabbing skill. Two-shotting an Ettin, in melee, with a CASTER, is just too epic. (Admittedly I lucked out that time because the second hit was "Space warps horribly" Distortion, but still!) In fact I might even start playing Sludge Elf for the high Stabbing just to try and replicate that strategy.

[Jabberwocky]

*double post because I need a life*

How did Crawl kill me again today? Snake Pit 5, Naga Warrior all by himself.

Lesson learned: Bring Blink with you, whether it's Scrolls or a spell, any time you're going into areas with Constrict-toting enemies. It was my own fault for going in without either one; I had used them all up earlier and I really should have either stocked up in shops somewhere or combed a different area such as Elven Halls or the Shoals until I saved up a couple scrolls or found a Book of Wizardry/Party Tricks for the actual spell. Ah well.

By the way, Psyche's Dagger of Chaos is wonderful with high Stabbing skill! Consider this a second lesson; Chaos's tendancy to Confuse or Paralyze even poison-resistant monsters (that ignore my Mephitic Cloud) has FANTASTIC synergy with high Stabbing skill. Two-shotting an Ettin, in melee, with a CASTER, is just too epic. (Admittedly I lucked out that time because the second hit was "Space warps horribly" Distortion, but still!) In fact I might even start playing Sludge Elf for the high Stabbing just to try and replicate that strategy.

Have fun when that chaos dagger 'zerks a stone giant and it one shots you. Chaos can be fun and work for a while, and it can kill you. It's random

[Jeremiah]

The only problem with the teleport control ring is that the places where you are most likely to need it are the places it doesn't work. (Elf:5, Zot:5, final Hell levels etc.)

[phonix]

Saint Roka with 2 orc priests as an escort is guaranteed death if you dont have blink and 60 hp.

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Treat each unique as a boss enemy with a plasma gun / BFG 9000. Pause the game and think the strategy through.

[Blade]

Treat each unique as a boss enemy with a plasma gun / BFG 9000. Pause the game and think the strategy through.

or do what I do and hold tab

[Jabberwocky]

Treat each unique as a boss enemy with a plasma gun / BFG 9000. Pause the game and think the strategy through.

or do what I do and hold tab

ouch

[Raptorraging]

Been playing some Naga Enchanters. Ensorcelled Hibernation is great , but remember that when they get next to you you're probably screwed. Er, that is ogres.

[Tiber]

Saint Roka with 2 orc priests as an escort is guaranteed death if you dont have blink and 60 hp.

Depending on distance, there's a scroll of fog and/or a scroll of silence. If going with silence, just remember to read any accompanying scrolls first.

[Jabberwocky]

OCS are very dangerous for felids to try to destroy because you can't wands of disintegration on them.

[SchwaWarrior]

Have fun when that chaos dagger 'zerks a stone giant and it one shots you. Chaos can be fun and work for a while, and it can kill you. It's random

Correct, which is why the moment I see a beefier opponent like that, I resort to Plan B: FIREBALL FIREBALL FIREBALL

Or actually that's technically Plan A in the late-game and Plan B tends to be the Dagger; I use the Chaos Dagger combined with Mephitic Cloud anyway, for the bonus to Stabbing damage, and if it's confused and beserked at the same time at least I have a couple turns to say "Okay, NO." and teleport the George Clooney away from there.

If I weren't playing something with a 10 STR I'd probably use a beefier weapon anyway and wouldn't have to do that. ^^ I mean my High Elf Conjurer can use Long Blades decently if they're Elven, but I still lose quite a bit of potential damage because of the weapon weighting. Really my only choice to do any reliable, heavy damage are my spells, in true Conjurer fashion.

[KoboldLord]

Another rare, but fun result possible from attacking with a chaos weapon is that you can die instantly. I'm not even kidding; it has happened online and the logs have been posted to this very message board.

[nicolae]

Another rare, but fun result possible from attacking with a chaos weapon is that you can die instantly. I'm not even kidding; it has happened online and the logs have been posted to this very message board.

Is this a side effect of some other effect, or is it just straight-up "The chaos weapon kills you! You die..."

[BlackSheep]

It can cause high-level miscast effects which can deal large amounts of damage.

[Corey]

I hate this game.
Just got shot my GhAK (doing very well for my noobish experience, CL9 at D:9, i had just found Lair Entrance) by a "holycrapwhatthehellnonoNO!!" 17 damage Crossbow-Trap.

[Jabberwocky]

I hate this game.
Just got shot my GhAK (doing very well for my noobish experience, CL9 at D:9, i had just found Lair Entrance) by a "holycrapwhatthehellnonoNO!!" 17 damage Crossbow-Trap.

Why were you exploring at a depth where there are nasty traps with very low health?

[Corey]

i was not exploring, i was breaking LOS from a nasty bunch of orc wizards/priests
And i wasn't actually aware of the damage output of a bolt trap, neither of the possibility of stepping on one ^^

[SchwaWarrior]

Strength has nothing to do with this whatsoever.

Isn't Dagger damage 100% weighted on Dexterity?

[mageykun]

Strength has nothing to do with this whatsoever.

Isn't Dagger damage 100% weighted on Dexterity?

Str/dex weighting on weapon damage is pretty negligible. Str matters for carrying capacity and mitigating heavy armor penalties. Dex helps with evasion and shields.

[mageykun]

  Code:

The purple draconian knight gestures wildly while chanting.
The purple draconian knight casts a spell and a mottled draconian corpse floats close.
The purple draconian knight picks up the mottled draconian corpse and starts butchering it.
[...]
The purple draconian knight is severely wounded.
The purple draconian knight mumbles some strange words.
The purple draconian knight holds a chunk of flesh high, and a cloud of icy vapour forms.
The vapour coalesces into ice likenesses of mottled draconians.


What.

Monsters can cast simulacrum?

Draconians will butcher each other to do so? And they're smart enough to stand at the edge of LOS, let the rest of the pack melee me, then apport the corpses of the fallen to manufacture reinforcements?

This is all kinds of awesome.

[Stormfox]

then apport the corpses of the fallen to manufacture reinforcements?

This is all kinds of awesome. :lol:

Fedhas's decomposition of all corpses in LOS has just gotten that much more useful.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Do they pick up and butcher the corpse immediately after apporting or does it take a turn? If the latter... summon spores!

[SchwaWarrior]

Or the Corpse Rot spell. Honestly I've never used that (the only necromancy magic I ever use are Regenerate, Fulsome Distillation, and SELDOMLY Bolt of Draining because it's a Conjuration), but when I think about it, it'd have its uses in such a crowded battle site where things are getting killed left and right. Same applies to those square rooms filled with 50 Kobolds or Orcs or BEEEEEES, too.

[SchwaWarrior]

A fully dexterity-weighted weapon still uses (Str+Dex)/2 for the damage multiplier...and the damage multiplier is rather small. You are better off disregarding the effects of strength/dexterity on damage and accuracy entirely unless you are in dragon form (and even then it's only for strength) - it's just too small to be something that should affect your decisions.

And on that note, bucklers get a SH bonus from dexterity, shields from (Str+Dex)/2, and large shields from strength. Again, not large enough that you are likely to care about it.

Actually this is very good information! Thank you. Considering my HECj usually plays with 10 STR and over 21 DEX, it might make more of a difference than you'd think for me-- perhaps the difference itself is small, but over the course of the game it can add up.

By the way, last game I played (which was the very first one I ever won), I was using a Medium Shield with 14 STR and 22 DEX, and 14.6 levels in Shield skill, and that gave me a 31 in my SH stat. I've never gotten it so high before, so from now on when I play casters my goal is to get a Medium Shield up and running at full potential. Since I also had 26 AC and 32 EV, it REALLY helped me survive the ascent; the only things that remained extremely dangerous for me were Tentacled Monstrosities (which Constrict, shooting your EV down to nothing until you break free with Blink) and Hellfire which never misses (I had one level of Fire Res, I guess most people recommend two or higher), and Torment from Tormentors.

I like to call this setup a "War Mage", who can hold her own in melee as she can in magic. ^^ I'm not one to care much for optimization. I go for badassery. Heck, you personally told me before that I could "never win that way", and yet I have my first YAVP up as of two days ago! It feels amazingly satisfying knowing I beat you, just so you know.

Also carrying capacity is only for convenience, it's not actually useful.

Speak for yourself, dood! My poor elf girlie was CONSTANTLY Burdened last game. I had to make LOTS of return-trips to my Stash in Lair:1 just to drop off my extra stuff I didn't need yet! If that hadn't been an issue I probably wouldn't have upped STR to 14 with the extra points I was given every third level-up.

Near the end of the game I was almost scrambling to use up my Wands just so I could drop them once they had 0 charges. ;_;

[SchwaWarrior]

Ah yes. But I still took it as fightin' words.

And you're right about the scrolls and potions, but I get all paranoid and think "What if I need them!? D:" and some end up getting destroyed because of it. I try to store stuff at my stash like spellbooks and a couple backup healing potions/scrolls of teleport, because I know I'll use the ones I have and I don't want them to get destroyed, but even so I still suffer from it.

If I were a Unique in Crawl I'd probably be Agnes. A battle princess, hoarding excess treasures.

[Silentwolf]

Never never trust an enslaved Kobold.

Demonstration (playing OpAr facing two kobolds and a hobgoblin. The hobgob is already meleeing me, the two kobolds are in the center of the room. One of the kobolds is throwing exploding darts, so i use Wand of Enslavement on it)

Attack! Your kobold throws an exploding dart.
The exploding dart hits the kobold. The exploding dart explodes!
The explosion of dart fragments engulfs the kobold.
The kobold dies!

So far so good. Let's finish the hobgob.

You sock the hobgoblin but do no damage.
You constrict the hobgoblin.
The hobgoblin is lightly wounded.

Your kobold yells, "Run! I'll cover you!" (well thanks buddy...)
Your kobold throws an exploding dart. The exploding dart hits the hobgoblin. (What??? nonono!!!!)
The exploding dart explodes!
The explosion of dart fragments engulfs the hobgoblin.
You die...

Oh well

[SchwaWarrior]

Silentwolf, you should definitely have enslaved the Hobgoblin instead, have it attack the exploding-dart-throwing Kobold as you run away. Chances are they would have killed it and you could have come back when the two Kobolds were much less of a threat in another corridor or behind a corner or something.

[Jeremiah]

It's entirely possible to go an entire game without ever finding some of the most basic items.

(Just found my first ring of protection from fire in Cerebov's vault, after getting all dungeon + Pan runes. Still haven't found clarity, teleportation or teleport control...)

[Blade]

It's likely, in fact, that you will be missing important basic items by the time you get to extended.

(Teleport control isn't exactly basic, though. iirc it's one of the rarest pieces of jewellery, and certainly one of the best)

[mageykun]

Today's discovery:

Passwall, Dig, Ash and stabbing make for an unbelievably awesome combination.

Ash lets you see things that need stabbing though walls. Passwall gets you through the wall and into stabbing range without giving the monsters a turn to even roll to spot you. And if there's no good space outside the room to pass through to the specific square you want? You can dig a tunnel around the room and pass in there.

Check and mate.

[Blade]

On ##crawl today:

  Code:

[13:20] <|amethyst> ZRN:  each time you take damage, you have a 1/8 chance to reduce the poison duration by 1
[13:20] <|amethyst> ZRN:  1/3 chance if you are at 1 HP


Turns out all my narrow escapes weren't a coincidence after all.

[Grimm]

shield of reflection + orb spiders = a sweet feeling of contenment in the belly