I think we learned an important lesson today.

[galehar]

I just found out that monsters can attack through iron grates with the reaching feature of polearms, but a polearm-wielding player cannot reciprocate. I found out in the Haunted Forest ending of Crypt 5, which contains a cell that has two reapers that attack with their scythes through the bars of the grate. When I saw them attacking me through it today, I was rocking a 25-polearms merfolk with a +6/+7 bardiche, so I thought, "Cool! I can reach through iron grates?"

Turns out it doesn't work like that.

It probably will. I suggested to let firing, reaching and clouds go through grates and the idea was well received. It would make grates similar to deep water but you'd need dig to cross it instead of lev/swim/cling.

[tormodpwns]

After tens of games, I finally got a really good MuMo going. A MuMo of Nemelex after Lair and Orc on D:15 with a possible rF++++ (that's five sources!) and four sources of SInv. Tabbing his way through literally everything. Then I got banished by Sonja and promptly died because the new Abyss is a nightmare.

Another lesson learned: Lava Snakes are surprisingly and fatally powerful with their 3d10 ranged attack.

[SchwaWarrior]

Ooh! I have a tip for the new Abyss!

Since the walls and everything change positions every single turn, sometimes you can let yourself get surrounded on every side by walls (even steel ones!), and believe it or not, this is a fantastic opportunity to rest up if you were dangerously harmed while on the run from baddies everywhere.

I main Ashenzari, and I could see the enemies through the walls; the two times this surrounding thing happened to me (in the same Abyss run), the enemies did not crowd outside and wait for me. I assume they CAN, but they won't always. ^^ You don't know how long you have to rest there, and one of the times, Random Abyss Teleport kicked in and I wound up halfway across my "explored" map portion, but it's a "hell" of a lot better than nothing, no pun necessary. n_n

Also, it's not like I even need to say this, but: Levitation and Digging. Your two greatest best friends ever down in there. Especially since you can use Digging to force yourself to become trapped in safety after walls you just burrowed through close in behind you.

Oh, but when I finally did find the exit, steel walls appeared and completely surrounded it. I was waiting at that spot for a bit under 1k turns waiting for it to open back up, and thankfully nothing too horrible attacked me. A Smoke Demon and that's it, and a handy Wand of Cold killed it in one shot. I'm assuming you won't always be that lucky if that happens. If you're waiting, and Pit Fiends or whatever show up, just teleport out of there (it takes longer to work though) or run away otherwise and find your way back or to a new portal instead of pressing your luck. The last thing you want to do is rush. Caution is first priority.

[mageykun]

THERE ARE RUNE MIMICS.

This is absolutely fantastic. If it hasn't been done already, we need to implement an Orb mimic. And a whole new Zot:5 map with two (or more) completely separate orb chambers to best exploit this.

Regrettably, I was in the vaults when I discovered this, and I already had the rune. So I knew what it was right away. Interestingly, even if you know it's a mimic, you can't seem to kill it without triggering the trap. Dropped a firestorm right on it for fun- and it was completely unharmed!

[varsovie]

I don't know if it's a good or a bad comportment. I don't want to be forced to throw something on every object/stair just to see if it's a mimic.

[mageykun]

I don't know if it's a good or a bad comportment. I don't want to be forced to throw something on every object/stair just to see if it's a mimic.

You won't be. So far as I can tell, up until the mimic reveals itself, you can't hit it. So the throw test won't work, just like my spells couldn't hit the rune mimic till I walked up to it and let it reveal itself.

[galehar]

I don't know if it's a good or a bad comportment. I don't want to be forced to throw something on every object/stair just to see if it's a mimic.

It used to be like that. And it was terrible, so I changed mimics to make them immune to ranged attacks until discovered.

[Grimm]

It's possible to go up to a fully cleared level - namely V:7 - and, while trying on a shiny new suit of armour, get jumped by an ettin skeleton and killed before you have a chance to react.

  Code:

Message History

You continue taking off your +4 scale mail of fire resistance.
You finish taking off your +4 scale mail of fire resistance.
"Was it this warm in here before?"
You start putting on your armour.
You continue putting on your uncursed glowing chain mail.
The ettin skeleton barely misses you. The ettin skeleton closely misses you.
You continue putting on your uncursed glowing chain mail.
The ettin skeleton closely misses you. You furiously retaliate!
You headbutt the ettin skeleton! The ettin skeleton barely misses you.
You continue putting on your uncursed glowing chain mail.
The ettin skeleton hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The ettin skeleton closely misses you.
You continue putting on your uncursed glowing chain mail.
The ettin skeleton hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The ettin skeleton misses you.
You continue putting on your uncursed glowing chain mail.
The ettin skeleton hits you!
You die...

[Kate]

Not anymore! I think that commit was just a bit too late to make it into 0.10, though.

[mattlistener]

Octopode Wizard of Sif Muna with only his starting spellbook and the Book of Fire reaches Orc:4 and finds that it's not an open level. The interesting stuff is in a different region, and he lacks a source of digging. He explores stairways, finds a second "wrong" area of Orc:4, and finally finds the third stairwell into the "branch end" area of Orc:4, judging by the waves of ogres that begin pouring around the corner. He picks off a few, retreats upstairs, summons up a horde of imps, goes down again, and finds that three ogres start out adjacent to him. He makes it out again with a zero-range Mephitic Cloud - Potion of Curing combo, but it's clear that going down a third time risks instant death.

What to do? He could come back later, but he'd found a huge amount of gold in a bailey, and is really hoping for a jewelery shop on Orc:4 since he's getting to feel especially squishy.

Solution: go back to a "wrong" area of Orc:4 and throw a bunch of Fireballs against the wall. Upon returning to the stairs that had been swarmed with Ogres, no-one is in sight. Noise system ftw!

(The rest of the level is easily cleared with ranged attacks. All four stores turn out to be stocked with nothing an Octopode can use (and some boring weapons). Speciesists! Nevertheless he has gone on to clear Swamp and is still going...)

[Baine]

I definitely like this game and the never ending surprises it provides to my poor adventurers...

//Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
//Your buckler slows your rate of fire.
//G - a +0,+1 bow (weapon)
//Quivering y - 6 arrows of frost for bows.
//Your sun demon disappears in a puff of smoke!
A coloured vial drops from a hatch in the ceiling!
You are engulfed in poison gas.
You are poisoned.
You feel sick.

Gas bombing ftw!!

[Baine]

And one more!!
i just killed an Orc Wizard by reflecting its puff of frost with my +3 dwarven buckler of reflection!!

[FluidDynamite]

Spot the error in the following sentence:

"I'm down to 7 HP, but Edmund is also almost dead. I can kill him, as long as his next zapping of his wand of magic darts miss."

[Pteriforever]

Next to hydra is not the right place and time to drop rotten chunks.
Neither is it the best place and time to eat a meat ration.

[Pteriforever]

Staff of power isn't a good melee weapon.

[Grimm]

Next to hydra is not the right place and time to drop rotten chunks.
Neither is it the best place and time to eat a meat ration.

Location, location, location!

[SchwaWarrior]

I suddenly entered a room on D:11 filled with water, kobolds, treasure, and a Dragon, with me right next to the Dragon. They were all asleep. I decided, "I'm not dealing with this." I use my Teleport scroll. They all wake up. I use a Fear scroll. All the Kobolds run away but not the Dragon (who tramples me into the water with his first hit). I move away. I move away again. Teleportation kicks in. It sends me, what, eight squares away, diagonally from the Dragon. It fireballs me. I die in one hit from 90% health.

Solution: Don't use shafts for no good reason. This completely retarded death was not only the fault of the asshole-teleport scroll; if I would have used the stairs like a good boy to get to that part I probably could have just lured the dragon away and circled around or whatever, without having to rely on that scroll which... might or might not have arbitrarily happy birthday'd my poor Conjurer. @_@ I'm too astounded to be furious.

[mattlistener]

Ring of Flames in Shoals is awesome because the massive plumes of steam everywhere block LOS and let you pick things off as you get glimpses of them.

Ring of Flames in Shoals is hazardous because the individual flames are continually getting extinguished by water, leaving holes for Ice spells to get through and freeze your sorry rC-- ass.

[Stormfox]

It probably will. I suggested to let firing, reaching and clouds go through grates and the idea was well received. It would make grates similar to deep water but you'd need dig to cross it instead of lev/swim/cling.

Would lightning ground out on them if you (or a monster) tried to fire it through?

[mumra]

I definitely like this game and the never ending surprises it provides to my poor adventurers...

//Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
//Your buckler slows your rate of fire.
//G - a +0,+1 bow (weapon)
//Quivering y - 6 arrows of frost for bows.
//Your sun demon disappears in a puff of smoke!
A coloured vial drops from a hatch in the ceiling!
You are engulfed in poison gas.
You are poisoned.
You feel sick.

Gas bombing ftw!!

Heehee That was my work. Some people didn't like them ...

[tormodpwns]

Since the walls and everything change positions every single turn, sometimes you can let yourself get surrounded on every side by walls (even steel ones!), and believe it or not, this is a fantastic opportunity to rest up if you were dangerously harmed while on the run from baddies everywhere.

I've gotten this protection before, but the walls have always moved away too soon. Only able to heal up 20 or so HP before I'm revealed again.

[TwilightPhoenix]

To defeat Roxanne, all you need is an amulet of Stasis and a bunch of rocks. Sling optional.

[rebthor]

To defeat Roxanne, all you need is an amulet of Stasis and a bunch of rocks. Sling optional.

Statues in general are so annoying because some explode with 1 disintegration and others [Roxanne, archer statue] are not affected. That was a shock the first time I zapped her with a disint and she just shrugged it off. She didn't shrug off the LRDs as easily though.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Yeah, but Roxanne is not dangerous nor annoying at all if you stay at max LOS, since her only spell she can hit you with is to blink you closer, which Stasis prevents (never tried cTele). So you're free to stone/dart/magic dart/whatever her to death.

Now if you do for whatever reason get close, I strongly recommend getting away before you take a crystal spear to the face.

[SchwaWarrior]

I melee'd Roxanne to death. With my spellcaster. Summon Scorpions used twice before the fight and a Potion of Agility quaffed, using a +4 Elven Short Sword of Distortion. (And no, she didn't get Abyss'd.) I was so stoked.

And yes, I did take a Crystal Spear to the face for close to half my HP meter. It probably helped that I was wearing the +8 AC Ring of Robustness and a +4 Scale Mail.

Hey, don't look at me funny just because I use my spellcasters like THAT! It's "innovative"!

[Southpaw]

Roxanne is not that difficult to deal with. If you're "blink-proof" (stasis) she's trivial free XP, and if not you can just ignore her until you are. I haven't had a melee guy yet have an issue with just blinking right next to her and holding in TAB until she dies (still not a recommended course of action)

[TwilightPhoenix]

I tried that with a FeBe once. One shot landed and I was teleporting to another part of a level by taking a detour through kitty heaven.

[Mankeli]

Roxanne is not that difficult to deal with. If you're "blink-proof" (stasis) she's trivial free XP, and if not you can just ignore her until you are. I haven't had a melee guy yet have an issue with just blinking right next to her and holding in TAB until she dies (still not a recommended course of action)

I think the other guy was talking about a spellcaster. And I also think that generally speaking, and especially for a spellcaster, no monster with crystal spear is "trivial free XP" if you get in crystal spear range.

[mageykun]

Okay, I've learned a few lessons exploring the new abyss:

• There are now arrows of chaos.
• Shops can spawn in the abyss.
• There is such a thing a a closed shop. (Friggen Rng teasing me...)
• Octopodes are apparently abyss dwelling horror-terrors. They really are squiddles, after all. XD

[Southpaw]

Roxanne is not that difficult to deal with. If you're "blink-proof" (stasis) she's trivial free XP, and if not you can just ignore her until you are. I haven't had a melee guy yet have an issue with just blinking right next to her and holding in TAB until she dies (still not a recommended course of action)

I think the other guy was talking about a spellcaster. And I also think that generally speaking, and especially for a spellcaster, no monster with crystal spear is "trivial free XP" if you get in crystal spear range.

Yes, you are 100% correct. That's why I said if you're blink-proof its trivial - because it's 100% your fault if you get into LCS range of an immobile enemy who is surrounded by a travel-excluded region. If you aren't blink-proof you should probably take a moment to remember that Crawl doesn't require you kill every enemy when you first encounter them.

[mageykun]

Lesson for today:

Some absolutely horrid person broke stair connectivity in the hells. As in- the same downstairs won't necessarily take you to the same place twice.

This makes establishing a quick path to rush down to floor 7 several times somewhat more difficult.

(Seriously, the creative little ways people keep thinking of to make the game more interesting and challenging amaze me. Discovering each new nasty trick is half the fun!)

[Kate]

Lesson for today:

Some absolutely horrid person broke stair connectivity in the hells. As in- the same downstairs won't necessarily take you to the same place twice.

This makes establishing a quick path to rush down to floor 7 several times somewhat more difficult.

(Seriously, the creative little ways people keep thinking of to make the game more interesting and challenging amaze me. Discovering each new nasty trick is half the fun!)

I think that was an accidental change, in fact. But it turned out to be cool so nobody fixed it.

[pratamawirya]

Lesson for today:

Some absolutely horrid person broke stair connectivity in the hells. As in- the same downstairs won't necessarily take you to the same place twice.

This makes establishing a quick path to rush down to floor 7 several times somewhat more difficult.

(Seriously, the creative little ways people keep thinking of to make the game more interesting and challenging amaze me. Discovering each new nasty trick is half the fun!)

I think that was an accidental change, in fact. But it turned out to be cool so nobody fixed it.

Since when is this?

[galehar]

Lesson for today:

Some absolutely horrid person broke stair connectivity in the hells. As in- the same downstairs won't necessarily take you to the same place twice.

This makes establishing a quick path to rush down to floor 7 several times somewhat more difficult.

(Seriously, the creative little ways people keep thinking of to make the game more interesting and challenging amaze me. Discovering each new nasty trick is half the fun!)

Seems to work fine here. Although I did change how hatches destinations are randomized, so if you had explored a hell branch before the change, all the destinations are changed after the game upgrade. But the new destinations are static, a downstairs always takes you to the same place each time.

[mageykun]

I'm playing 0.10 stable, not trunk, so I don't think that's it.

Allow me to be a little more clear on what happens. Let's pick a branch, say Tar because it's easier. Go from the vestibule to Tar:1. Now go in and out a few times. You'll appear in the same location each time. Fine. Now go down a few floors, establish a path. Then leave Tar. Enter again. Surprise! You're probably not in the same place you entered Tar:1 originally. If you jump back and forth between the vestibule though, you'll keep using the new entry spot (so you can't start scum for the entry closest to a downstairs). Now go down and try and follow your path. Some of the time you're going to appear on different up [s]staircases[/s] portals than you did when you went down originally. If you exit to the vestibule (from Tar:2 or lower), and check Tar:1 again, you'll find the entry point has been randomized again. Assuming there are 3 upstairs on each floor, you only have a 1/3 chance of finding yourself in the 'right' place each trip through.

Now, personally, I think this is a pretty cool addition. My traditional hell strategy is to establish the quickest path to floor:7 so you can exit to the vestibule for healing, and then rush back down to get back in the action with minimal hell effects. But the whole theme of the hells seems to be to mess with us- to make normal modes of operation harder. That's what hell effects are! So having the downstairs connect randomly to different up portals each journey down is a good mechanical fit. Plus it fits thematically- wouldn't you expect normal laws of space and geography to be warped in hell?

So... if you have fixed this in trunk galehar, think about reimplementing it. Even if it was broke by accident, it's a pretty interesting addition.

[BlackSheep]

I agree that this is probably how it should work. Otherwise, as you said, you can plot out the shortest path to the bottom, heal up in the vestibule, then charge back down without taking any detours.

[galehar]

So... if you have fixed this in trunk galehar, think about reimplementing it. Even if it was broke by accident, it's a pretty interesting addition.

Actually, what I did has nothing to do with it since I changed hatches behaviour, and Hell use normal stone downstairs. So I don't know what's causing it and it's probably the same in trunk.

[Jabberwocky]

Don't forget that Neqoxeci drain Int. as well as mutate you. This can kill a early banished berserker, even if you berserk and kill it.

[Stormfox]

So... if you have fixed this in trunk galehar, think about reimplementing it. Even if it was broke by accident, it's a pretty interesting addition. :)

Actually, what I did has nothing to do with it since I changed hatches behaviour, and Hell use normal stone downstairs. So I don't know what's causing it and it's probably the same in trunk.

Here's a vote for not trying too hard to fix it (or, even better, figure out what's causing it and note it so that someone doesn't inadvertently fix it).

[tormodpwns]

AGAIN, lost a character to the new Abyss where it would have survived the old one. Gets me every time, I've never escaped from the Abyss ever since it changed. A lesson learned in this game as well: Slimify is NOT a 100% get-out-of-jail-free card. If you were depending on slimes and you miss your next attack, then you're screwed

[mumra]

If you drop all your scrolls in a volcano to tackle a fire spitting statue,
remember to pick them up afterwards.

[Grimm]

AGAIN, lost a character to the new Abyss where it would have survived the old one. Gets me every time, I've never escaped from the Abyss ever since it changed.

My experience is exactly the opposite of this: I almost always escape the new Abyss, and almost never escaped the old one. I play MiBe^T.

[Raptorraging]

Never underestimate early game giant worms. Those things can hit real hard, or at least in the newest trunk they can.

[Zicher]

Never underestimate early game giant worms. Those things can hit real hard, or at least in the newest trunk they can.

They always did. Then again, they also always were really easy to run from.

[XuaXua]

If you drop all your scrolls in a volcano to tackle a fire spitting statue,
remember to pick them up afterwards.

PROTIP: drop them outside the volcano portal, before you even enter it.
Same for potions (except resistance and some healing) for ice portals.

[Raptorraging]

In the Icecave, if you see the light blue square after you decimate all of the ice beasts, DONT TOUCH IT. No matter how curious you are. It will only make you sad.

[mumra]

If you drop all your scrolls in a volcano to tackle a fire spitting statue,
remember to pick them up afterwards.

PROTIP: drop them outside the volcano portal, before you even enter it.
Same for potions (except resistance and some healing) for ice portals.

I'm not sure exactly how much real time elapsed between me pressing '>' and realising I'd forgotten to drop my scrolls first. Let's just say it was an extremely miniscule amount of time.

Luckily it turned out to be the only volcano (possibly a new one?) that wasn't simply a death trap of fire and lava. It was actually quite pleasant. I didn't lose any scrolls until the room at the end with the fire spitter. I'd managed to pick up most of the loot without it even waking up - then it started firing out me and I lost one scroll, so I ran outside the room and dropped the rest, went back in to get the rest of the loot ... it was some time later back in Lair when I realised my scrolls inventory was looking somewhat bare. I can tell you I was kicking myself!