I think we learned an important lesson today.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Heroism will let you grab pretty much any weapon you need but are untrained in and use it to handle a specific situation. In my case, it was grabbing my only source of rElec, an artifact broad axe, and using it to kill Nikola.

[Pteriforever]

On topic: Summon Ugly Thing is really hard to get hungerless, but the alternative, Summon Demon, is extremely dangerous. I found this out after I was forced to run from my own summons one time too many.

...and spawns in a book with Abjuration? This is a great spell. If you spam it, you can also just retreat behind a wall of demons since most will be friendly. I usually don't even have the need to abjure.
Sun demons are much better than red ugly things, you get smiters, chaos spawns occasionally do cool things (paralysis...), ice devils are better than white ugly things, I prefer the spell overall. Of course you need to deal with the 4s but this spell offers much more than "speed 10 melee monsters with elemental damage" (not that Summon Ugly Thing is weak).
[quote]

Meh, I've found that it takes at least two casts of Abjuration to get rid of one.

I just still prefer Summon Ugly Thing because of its reliability. With Summon Demon, you have a chance to get something really cruddy and a chance to get a hostile one you need to get rid of.

[tormodpwns]

This was actually a really annoying YASD...

You know that one "beastly" Ice Cave map that spawns in the early Lair with the Frost Giant at the end? I remember the first time I saw the Frost Giant (on a DrGl of Okawaru) I nearly pissed my pants because I was about level 12. I managed to kill it no problem. Since then, I've killed the Frost Giant no less than 5 times, without any trouble ever...

And now this time, on one of my strongest characters to date (level 12 DgTr) for this point in the game, I met the Frost Giant again. I turned on Blade Hands, giving me 12base+16str/4+24dex/4+10ucskill = 32 base damage at 80% attack delay, along with a +0,+7 ring of slaying. I had full 92/92 HP (fighting skill was a tad low) and rather respectable 10/24/0 defenses. This Frost Giant will be a joke, I thought. I hit him once for near 0 damage, then he hit me once for about 40. Then I got two good hits on him, taking him to "severely wounded." Then he hit me again for about 50, taking me down to exactly 1/92 HP. At this point I was shocked, because I had never faced a challenge in this Ice Cave before. If I run, I thought, he will blast me with a bolt and I will surely die. Well, I'll just kill him in one more hit. But that hit did near 0 damage again, and I died... my first time dying to that easy Frost Giant. And on my most powerful character too no doubt.

[varsovie]

Patience is a virtue.

I saw an hydra in lair 3 with my venom mage/backstabber Naga of Chei.
Instead of using all my consumables to beat it, I managed to flee, and decided to continue dungeon instead.
The first foe I see has a fire branded demonblade.
With my ring of invis, the hydra won't last long.

Tormodpwns, you should had flee after the first hit. In crawl it's never good to be below 50% HP, and if you need *luck* to win a battle, consider this battle already lost.

[Wereox]

I always thought the whole "convert to Lugonu to get out of the Abyss" thing was a cool idea but never actually a good one, because nearly every god has wrath that's at least as dangerous as being in the Abyss and it's enormously unlikely that you end up Abyssed before you have a god. I finally found a time when it does pay off - I got Abyssed on D2 of an orb run, ran into an altar almost immediately, and devoutly followed Lugonu for about 100 turns of GTFO before Nemelex had time to whip out the Deck of Punishments. It was kinda cool to see the deal with the devil actually happen.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Stuff about Ice Caves...

There's a couple of nastier ones out there. One with an Ice Dragon at the end and, even worse, one with an Ice Fiend.

[tormodpwns]

Tormodpwns, you should had flee after the first hit. In crawl it's never good to be below 50% HP, and if you need *luck* to win a battle, consider this battle already lost.

Frost Giants throw Bolts of Cold. Continuing to fight was my best bet. Lesson learned: just because you can win easily with weaker characters, doesn't mean that you will win with a stronger character.

Stuff about Ice Caves...

There's a couple of nastier ones out there. One with an Ice Dragon at the end and, even worse, one with an Ice Fiend.

That one actually has TWO Ice Dragons. The Ice Fiend map comes later in the dungeon, so by that time a fiend is usually not a big deal. After all, it's only one, and if I remember correctly, there's plenty of corners to hide in so a melee character won't get tormented too much trying to run up and fight. The easiest map is probably the one with the 3's and 4's, with a necromancer in a room with 9 pieces of good loot, as long as you can deal with two ice statues at once.

I always thought the whole "convert to Lugonu to get out of the Abyss" thing was a cool idea but never actually a good one, because nearly every god has wrath that's at least as dangerous as being in the Abyss and it's enormously unlikely that you end up Abyssed before you have a god. I finally found a time when it does pay off - I got Abyssed on D2 of an orb run, ran into an altar almost immediately, and devoutly followed Lugonu for about 100 turns of GTFO before Nemelex had time to whip out the Deck of Punishments. It was kinda cool to see the deal with the devil actually happen.

Well, I had a MuFE of Vehumet in the Abyss, and I died. I had found a Lugonu altar in the Abyss earlier. Now I realize that I probably should have converted, left the Abyss, and then just dealt with Vehumet wrath (the worst punishment is Banishment but that's obviously a joke with Lugonu).

[varsovie]

Tormodpwns, you should had flee after the first hit. In crawl it's never good to be below 50% HP, and if you need *luck* to win a battle, consider this battle already lost.

Frost Giants throw Bolts of Cold. Continuing to fight was my best bet. Lesson learned: just because you can win easily with weaker characters, doesn't mean that you will win with a stronger character.

I didn't meant to flee, but maybe use the precious charge of disentegration wand, quaff the potion of speed, resistance, invisible or might, start a teleport...

The easiest map is probably the one with the 3's and 4's, with a necromancer in a room with 9 pieces of good loot, as long as you can deal with two ice statues at once.

Even easier if you manage to teleport at the end and do it "backward", this way the corners are with you, not against you (or you may skip these statues...).
Anyway I avoid the Ice cave now, because I found it to be too dangerous.

[banei]

Never play low HP, armour hating race. That evade will fail at some point.
Umm... not sure if this counts as a lesson

[Kerslake]

If you see lava in the Realm of Zot, run. Not just because an Orb of Fire is awake and the one beside it is sleeping, but because there's more beyond your field of vision. You can't see them, but they are there, and it is Zot.

[tormodpwns]

If you can't find any downstairs in Zot, be prepared to find them bunched together in a smallish room... filled with Oklobs, Burning Bushes, OCS's, and Ice Statues. Like Zot Defense except they're fighting YOU.

Even easier if you manage to teleport at the end and do it "backward", this way the corners are with you, not against you (or you may skip these statues...).
Anyway I avoid the Ice cave now, because I found it to be too dangerous.

Hm, I actually find Ice Cave to be my favorite side map! Probably because it's the one that I find the most. I find Spider's Nests to be extremely difficult. On an unrelated note, I found a brand new sewer map today: start in a room with 5 bats and a pool of deep water, then enter a horizontal hallway that branches into an up and down hallway. In the lower hallway is a crocodile (quite OOD at that point!), and the upper hallway leads to an exit. If you get past the crocodile you go to a room with 7 decent-mediocre items.

[Stormfox]

I found a brand new sewer map today: start in a room with 5 bats and a pool of deep water, then enter a horizontal hallway that branches into an up and down hallway. In the lower hallway is a crocodile (quite OOD at that point!)

Just think how bad it would be if the urban legend had been taken literally and there was an alligator in that sewer.

[jejorda2]

I've always found a potion of berserk rage by itself in that sewer. I forget whether it's by the exit or right at the branching hallway.

[tormodpwns]

There's a lone potion by the exit, so that's probably it. I was playing a mummy at the time, so...

[One-Eyed Jack]

Gastronok's airstike can do 38 damage even if you have reasonable AC.

[varsovie]

Gastronok's airstike can do 38 damage even if you have reasonable AC.

He can do it twice in a row...

[Tutankham]

Don't use Passwall on the Shoals unless you are one hundred percent, absolutely no doubt about it _sure_ that there is no deep water on the other side of the wall.

[CommanderC]

Don't use Passwall on the Shoals unless you are one hundred percent, absolutely no doubt about it _sure_ that there is no deep water on the other side of the wall.

Not true. The game will cancel the action, if there is lava/deep water on the other side.

[KoboldLord]

Sometimes in Shoals and the Abyss water will not be there when you initiate the spell, but it will be once the spell resolves. Automatic failure is only checked at the beginning, so if your destination tile turns into a deadly tile, too bad for you.

[Tutankham]

Not true. The game will cancel the action, if there is lava/deep water on the other side.

So I probably made up this morgue file.

  Code:

             Began as a Spriggan Earth Elementalist on Feb 6, 2012.
             Was the Champion of Ashenzari.
             Drowned
             ... on Level 5 of the Shoals.
             The game lasted 07:54:48 (63803 turns).

...

Message History

...

There is some shallow water here.
There is an open door, spattered with blood here.
Things that are here:
a +6,+1 trident of reaching; a +0 robe
You see here a staff of wizardry.
Casting: Stone Arrow
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Which direction?
You begin to meditate on the wall. You continue meditating on the rock.
You continue meditating on the rock.
You finish merging with the rock.
You fall into the water!
You try to escape, but your burden drags you down!
You drown...
You die...

≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈   ≈≈≈
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈ ≈
≈≈#####≈≈≈≈≈≈≈ ≈≈
≈##...##≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈
.#.....#≈≈≈≈≈≈..≈
.').|..#≈≈≈...  ≈
.#.....#≈≈≈.#
.##)).##≈≈≈#*,,
..#####≈@≈.#,{ ,
..≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈.#,
.≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈.# {,
.≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈## {,*
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈.####*
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈..≈≈≈
≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈
≈≈≈...≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈
)###...≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈

[CommanderC]

Sorry Tutankham, I wasn't aware of this bug. I think you should report it.

https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/main_page.php

[Jabberwocky]

Just because you annihilated the guards at the entrance to vault 8 does not mean the rest of the level will be easy.

[tormodpwns]

Just because you annihilated the guards at the entrance to vault 8 does not mean the rest of the level will be easy.

The guards are literally the easiest part.

[Luckymoose]

That the last few characters have all died from poison in the Lair, which until yesterday had never happened to me before. Too many bees.

[Pteriforever]

I find the best way to deal with bees is Summon Ice Beast. They hit pretty hard and have rPois.

Scroll of immolation can't kill trees, but wand of lightning can.

[tormodpwns]

@ Luckymoose

If you see a large rectangular room with a door in the Lair, don't open it if you're not ready for mass bees/J's (jellies, brown oozes, even azure jellies).

[Pteriforever]

@ Luckymoose

If you see a large rectangular room with a door in the Lair, don't open it if you're not ready for mass bees/J's (jellies, brown oozes, even azure jellies).

You think that's bad? I found a vault with ACID BLOBS.

[KoboldLord]

The best part is when one of the Lair jelly rooms is next to one of those vaults with a dozen or more visible shaft traps. Not only it that particular level a no-go area until much later in the game, enough of the jellies will hit the shafts so that every other Lair level will start out seeded with a few already awake and wandering top-end jellies for you to race for the floor trash.

[tormodpwns]

I had no idea Kirke summoned VERY ugly things... I got mobbed by them on D:15. After I died I went to look them up on the database and apparently they're speed 11, so I could have just easily ran away... rest in peace my beloved TrEE.

[Pteriforever]

I had no idea Kirke summoned VERY ugly things... I got mobbed by them on D:15. After I died I went to look them up on the database and apparently they're speed 11, so I could have just easily ran away... rest in peace my beloved TrEE.

Summon Ugly Thing has a chance of producing very ugly things based on spellpower, so it's possible. It's the main reason why I like to continue to push Summ after it's got a 1% fail rate.

[Jabberwocky]

Even on D:26, big hordes of higher level orcs can be dangerous.

[tormodpwns]

I had no idea Kirke summoned VERY ugly things... I got mobbed by them on D:15. After I died I went to look them up on the database and apparently they're speed 11, so I could have just easily ran away... rest in peace my beloved TrEE.

Summon Ugly Thing has a chance of producing very ugly things based on spellpower, so it's possible. It's the main reason why I like to continue to push Summ after it's got a 1% fail rate.

Kirks spit out 3 of them, and I thought they were just regular ugly. Tabbed my way to death. Lesson learned, Kirke is a threat even if you have high MR.

[SinCosTan]

A single misclick while fighting TRJ as a melee character will spell your doom, no matter how amazingly powerful you are. Basic movement becomes a struggle when you're caught up in the heat of things.

[spillover]

Hey, did you know your own Orbs of Destruction could miss their target, circle back around, and kill you seemingly out of pure spite? I love you too, crawl.

[TehDruid]

Hey, did you know your own Orbs of Destruction could miss their target, circle back around, and kill you seemingly out of pure spite? I love you too, crawl.

Heat seeking missiles?

One funny thing I noticed while fooling around in Wizard mode is you can block Orbs of Destruction with a shield. And I guess you can also reflect them back at the attacker.

[TehDruid]

I just ran an Arena match - Mara v Cerebov. Guess who won.

[Jabberwocky]

I just ran an Arena match - Mara v Cerebov. Guess who won.

I'm guessing Mara won.

[Pteriforever]

Even if you bulldozed Elf:4, Elf:5 WILL kill you. Full of banishers and people with crazy conjurations. Don't go there.

[TehDruid]

I'm currently playing a Felid Fighter of Makhleb that left him for Jiyva at L:8. I'm at 30k turns with the slimy rune. I'm having a blast with the ring of Vitality, amulet of the four winds and ring of robustness atm (also got ring of shadows... lol). When suddenly Maud pops up. The following is reason enough for me to ask the devs to allow a standard Jiyva altar in early D. Honestly, it's a very very fun god.

Jiyva is awesome.png (10.65 KiB) Viewed 13086 times

Besides being totally creepy, Jyiva is awesome. Also, slimifying hydras to acid blobs ftw.

[Grimm]

Felid of Jivya? That'd be a Jellicle Cat.

[TehDruid]

Felids work very well with Jiyva, since their MAXHP is terrible so when you get hit you get high tier jellies come out of you. I can't even think how many times an Acid blob, Death ooze or Azure Jelly saved my ass today. At some point Frederic took almost 80% of my max hp away with a single spell, which caused somewhere around 4 Death oozes to spawn.

The poor cat is dead now. I got the Swamp rune without a prob and then went on to try the Snake one, but that Snake Pit was brutal. There was Aizul at some point who was kicking my ass and I literally couldn't do a thing, even with haste on (and I had 15 UC and 10+ fighting). I probably should have spammed Slimify on any dangerous thing and get the rune then go for the orb or something. I had Swiftness+Haste online but I died tabbing an Iron troll that had some orc priest support behind him. I must set the HP threshold to stop auto-combat at 50% instead of the 25% that it is by default. Fragile races don't even get a chance to retreat.

[C4Sale]

Turns out if you zap a wand of teleportation while you're already preparing to teleport, it can or always cancels the teleport rather than speeding up when it kicks in. (it can happen in the abyss at least, idk if it's different other places)

My lv 18 Minotaur Hunter got waylaid by a tormentor and a couple of smoke demons in the abyss. Despite zapping my telewand at the very beginning, it didn't kick until I was already in the red. Of course, I land right in some more danger in the form of a blizzard demon. I immediately zap a charge, and move a couple turns before I'm in the center of a freezing cloud.

I've got about 10 HP left and maybe the teleport would have kicked the next turn, but since that was my only hope by then, I figured I'd try zapping my wand again to see if that would help me out.

It didn't, lol.

[BlackSheep]

A second teleport from any source always cancels the first.

[varsovie]

Can it be used to pass over teleport trap?

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

It is not so new.

However, humans appear to be interesting comparing to most other specialized races.
When you play as a human, you really need to be ready to use everything. Even those puny wands of magic darts and slowing you were always throwing away.
Even if you are a wizard.

[Tutankham]

Can it be used to pass over teleport trap?

No, the teleport trap causes instantaneous teleportation (function you_teleport_now()). The source code that check for cancelation of a delayed teleoprt is only called if another delayed teleport is cast (function you_teleport()).

[Zicher]

Reading YAVP posts can be helpful in a joyous matter.
Reading YASD posts can be helpful much, much more.

EDIT: _Writing_ both of those can be helpful even for others .

[Daydreamer]

An amulet of stasis blocks finesse. I hadn't even considered that.

[cerebovssquire]

When you play as a human, you really need to be ready to use everything. Even those puny wands of magic darts and slowing you were always throwing away.
Even if you are a wizard.

Crappy items don't suddenly become non-crappy when you play a different strong race.