I think we learned an important lesson today.

[varsovie]

In trunk,

Sigmund too have a reaching weapon. ><

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Have what is necessary, plus something else.

Is that from a fortune cookie?

I like fortune-mod, so my style looks like it in some moments.

[Confidence Interval]

Have what is necessary, plus something else.

Is that from a fortune cookie?

I like fortune-mod, so my style looks like it in some moments.

I think from now on I will make my decisions in Crawl by casting the I Ching.

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Is that from a fortune cookie?

I like fortune-mod, so my style looks like it in some moments.

I think from now on I will make my decisions in Crawl by casting the I Ching.

By making your character cast...

[Grimm]

I think from now on I will make my decisions in Crawl by casting the I Ching.

Six at the top means:
The great prince issues commands,
Founds states, vests families with fiefs.
Inferior people should not be employed.

[Confidence Interval]

I think from now on I will make my decisions in Crawl by casting the I Ching.

Six at the top means:
The great prince issues commands,
Founds states, vests families with fiefs.
Inferior people should not be employed.

One can only usefully interpret the I Ching in light of the specific situation about which one sought guidance, not in the abstract.

Having said that, this one sounds like it's to do with being an Orc Priest and recruiting followers - amiright?

[Grimm]

Ah so.

[Grimm]

Shields of reflection will reflect Boris's orbs of destruction back at him.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Bread Rations are more useful than Meat Rations.

[A spy]

Shields of reflection will reflect Boris's orbs of destruction back at him.

Twice in a row. No need to even lift a finger !

[TwilightPhoenix]

  Code:

 46959 | D:14     | Cast into the Abyss (Sonja)
 46959 | Abyss    | Entered The Abyss
 47034 | Abyss    | Got an abyssal rune of Zot

Sometimes, the Abyss is disturbingly generous.

[Confidence Interval]

Giant spores can kill you outright when you're at full health, even if your previous experience suggests they will just do some damage and confuse you.

[ElectricAlbatross]

Here's one for Real Life:

No sequence of events that begins with you thinking "I'll play Crawl for ten minutes before I go to class" ends with you getting to class on time (if at all).

[bobross419]

Here's one for Real Life:

No sequence of events that begins with you thinking "I'll play Crawl for ten minutes before I go to class" ends with you getting to class on time (if at all).

Its funny that I posted a very, very similar thing with very different results earlier today:

I love it when I have 10 minutes before work and go clear all of snake. All hail the mighty TrBe of TAB!

[joellercoaster]

When you stash your scrolls in Lair:6 to fight a Fire Drake, for Xom's sake pick them up again.

That way, when Rupert leaps out from behind a rock on Lair:7 and starts beating you over the head with an anti-magic triple sword (no, really!), and you go, "OK, time to read that scroll of blinking so I don't die"... you actually have that scroll of blinking. So you don't die.

:headdesk:

[Stormfox]

When you stash your scrolls in Lair:6 to fight a Fire Drake, for Xom's sake pick them up again.

Likewise, if you drop most of your potions before going into an ice cave, pick them back up once you get back out...

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

It does not matter how much you want to play. You do not need to play. You do not need to win here. You do not need to spend a lot of time here.
If you feel that you can make something better, something more interesting, something more useful, you do not need to play here just because your Ogre Chaos Knight of Cheibriados is waiting for you. He isn't. It is your memory about him that is waiting -- waiting for his disappearance, be it a failure or an ascension.

[joellercoaster]

^^ That's deep.

[pratamawirya]

MyOtheHedgeFox of Deep Thinking.

[Grimm]

In Soviet Russia, Crawl players are philosophers.

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

Because between the battles, I think: "Gosh, I spent almost four hours! What was I doing?!"

Skipping this question might be quite painful later on.

[TwilightPhoenix]

When you stash your scrolls in Lair:6 to fight a Fire Drake, for Xom's sake pick them up again.

Likewise, if you drop most of your potions before going into an ice cave, pick them back up once you get back out...

Better yet, bring them in with you and leave them just inside. That way if you get the snot beaten out of you, get massively stat drained, horrible mutations, or what have you, those potions are within easy reach without having to abandon the cave.

[Grimm]

At least until the devs decide that items can be destroyed while lying on the floor.

[TwilightPhoenix]

That's called Jiyva.

[Blade]

Or Ring of Flames.

[ilpalazzo]

Running away from a fire crab through a tunnel - you won't get very far away.

Also: you might just put that scroll of blinking to use right away - it's the first scroll that will burn to crisp anyway on the first glimpse of fire

[TehDruid]

I actually learned this yesterday, but NEVER EVER EVER ENGAGE THAT CHICK WITH THE COMPANY OF HELL KNIGHTS ON A MUMMY FIGHTER THAT'S BEEN GOING GREAT BUT STILL HAS AN x in FIRE RESISTANCE. NEVER! One hellfire/or whatever it was, got me from 135 health to 35. I put on a ring of fire resist but it was too late, I died by her demon trident of flaming in 1-2 turns.

[SchwaWarrior]

Here's what I learned today.

65033 Blaster the Disarmer (level 14, -25/91 HPs)
Began as a High Elf Conjurer on Oct 15, 2011.
Was a High Priest of Ashenzari.
Killed from afar by Frederick (60 damage)
... with an iron shot

... on Level 4 of the Snake Pit.
The game lasted 03:11:24 (29843 turns).

Iron Shot.

Oh my God, Iron Shot.

Never again. Never. >____<;;; I am NEVER dealing with Iron Shot again, least not blatantly on purpose.

F#CKING SIXTY DAMAGE MAN

WHAT THE HECK

[Un67]

Problem: Iron Shot. Solution: Learn Iron Shot.

[AtT]

I actually learned this yesterday, but NEVER EVER EVER ENGAGE THAT CHICK WITH THE COMPANY OF HELL KNIGHTS ON A MUMMY FIGHTER THAT'S BEEN GOING GREAT BUT STILL HAS AN x in FIRE RESISTANCE. NEVER! One hellfire/or whatever it was, got me from 135 health to 35. I put on a ring of fire resist but it was too late, I died by her demon trident of flaming in 1-2 turns.

Hellfire is unresistable even rFire+++ would not have helped that. Immune monsters have rHellfire+.

[Tiber]

Problem: Iron Shot. Solution: Learn Iron Shot.

Problem: Powerful caster. Solution: Silence.

[Un67]

Problem: Iron Shot. Solution: Learn Iron Shot.

Problem: Powerful caster. Solution: Silence.

Problem: Player was a Conjurator. Solution: Shouldn't use Silence.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Problem: Iron Shot. Solution: Run away.

[Un67]

Problem: TwilightPheonix is probably correct. Solution: Use his solution instead.

[SchwaWarrior]

Problem: Player was a Conjurator. Solution: Shouldn't use Silence.

More like a Battle-Conjurer. I had more ranks in Staves (using a Latajang of Pain) than in any of the magic schools, 14 Strength and 21 Intelligence and Dexterity. I tried to kill Frederick by poisoning him en masse with Poisonous Cloud, and I had poison resistance so I PROBABLY would have won if I Poisonous Clouded him at closer range and then tried to melee him to death. Instead I tried to run away and have a shootout (it's apparently instinct for me to avoid getting in melee range to "dangerous monsters" like the plague, which is stupid and I should curb that habit), and he healed off the poison damage enough to take me out with his powerful spells and finished me off with Iron Shot.

Thinking back, yeah, melee would have won it. >_<

I also learned that a +1+1 Latajang of Pain with zero ranks in Staves is still TONS better in EVERY WAY than a +8+1 Vampiric ShortSword with 14 ranks in Short Blades. I'm so glad I made the switch; I don't even think I would have made it as far as Frederick if I stuck to my ShortSword the whole time. (Luckily Ashenzari worshippers can afford to switch Weapon categories late in the game using Skill Transfer. I've decided Ashenzari's my favorite deity and I play him with Conjurer every time I can.)

[Un67]

^ Mmm, I'm not so sure about that. If he could kill you with Iron Shot at long range, there's a good chance he could have done the same at short range. You might have had more luck, say, blinking away and reading a scroll of fog, and then skipping the level. No shame in running away without gunning away

[SchwaWarrior]

^ Mmm, I'm not so sure about that. If he could kill you with Iron Shot at long range, there's a good chance he could have done the same at short range. You might have had more luck, say, blinking away and reading a scroll of fog, and then skipping the level. No shame in running away without gunning away

I know when I should run. This wasn't one of those times. It was a good death, he put up a solid fight, I almost got him, but in the end he simply out-played me. I can take a loss like that like a man.

I encountered Mara earlier on in the Snake Pit, by the way. Within the first three moves I realized what I was going up against (she had multiple clones of herself AND a summoned Player Ghost of me) and I was like, "Okay, no. Just, no. Just no." I got my ass out of there immediately. I analyzed the threats at hand and realized there was no way I could fight her with my abilities the way they were.

When I met Frederick I didn't even know it was him; my Astral Vision ability was detecting a high-level monster stationary behind a cut-off portion of the dungeon. I cast Scry and it let me see him through the walls; he was asleep. I calculated a spot to use a Digging Wand that would give me the best movement advantage to fight (meaning a long tunnel with an escape route, to maximize Poisonous Cloud's potential), woke him up with a Mephitic Cloud (which didn't work; realized right then confusion wasn't going to cut it), lured him into the tunnel and caught him with Poisonous Cloud. What I DIDN'T expect was for him to heal himself multiple times and make it to the end of the tunnel (where I was running) with 3/4 of his health left. I was in melee range of him but he had a Demon Whip, and two hits did more damage than I thought, so I kind of freaked out and used Blink to try and have a shootout with him. This was a mistake, because his magic was better than mine and he could dish out a ton more damage with Mystic Blast and Iron Shot than I could with Lightning Bolt or even Poisonous Cloud.

Next time? I think I'll just Drain the bastard. Make him more susceptible to Confusion and whatnot. (Dammit, I had a 9 in Necromancy that I trained up to make my Latajang's Pain effect stronger! I should have gone back to my Stash and learned Bolt of Draining from the spellbook I left there.)

I think my problem is I get too caught up in the moment. X'D

[Un67]

Don't forget, "almost getting him" is functionally equivalent to "not getting him at all". It was still probably worth fleeing, no point leaving it to luck. (If only I could practice what I preach )

[SchwaWarrior]

Don't forget, "almost getting him" is functionally equivalent to "not getting him at all". It was still probably worth fleeing, no point leaving it to luck. (If only I could practice what I preach )

Perhaps, but what matters is whether or not I learn from my mistakes.

And I have, too. I just played a run where I swapped out a Dagger of Venom early on for Yiuf's Quarterstaff of Chaos and I got MUCH farther than I normally do, even though High Elves have a better affinity for Short Blades than Staves.

It remains to be seen whether or not I learned anything about fighting powerful casters like Frederick, but I definitely learned something about weapons!

Oh and I learned something else. If you're a caster and you find a Medium Shield, it's worth using it for a short while to get Shield Skill up to at least 1 (Magic Dart can still be cast at Very Good, and that's all you really need early-on, long as you stay away from Orc Wizards and Priests and certain uniques). Then, when you reach the Hive, disable all skills and turn on only Shields (even if you're not wearing it) and by the time you clear the Hive you'll have like 10 Shield skill. Yes, it trains even if you're not using it. After that you can wield your Shield and most of your penalty will be cancelled out; keep going until Shield Skill 15 and now you've got a powerful defensive item you can cast perfectly well from behind! It helps to know this because you don't always get a forgiving Buckler to go with, even from a Scroll of Acquirement.

[KoboldLord]

Perhaps, but what matters is whether or not I learn from my mistakes.

If the lesson you think you learned is that you should've charged into melee with an opponent that knows a spell that will kill you in two hits, then I'm afraid you likely haven't learned from your mistake. Frederick is not a centaur, and he'll happily use Iron Shot in melee. The only reasonably safe method of beating him, other than leaving and coming back later, would be to clear the surrounding area, quaff a potion of speed, and kite him around a large barrier while making him walk through constant Poisonous Clouds.

[SchwaWarrior]

If the lesson you think you learned is that you should've charged into melee with an opponent that knows a spell that will kill you in two hits, then I'm afraid you likely haven't learned from your mistake. Frederick is not a centaur, and he'll happily use Iron Shot in melee. The only reasonably safe method of beating him, other than leaving and coming back later, would be to clear the surrounding area, quaff a potion of speed, and kite him around a large barrier while making him walk through constant Poisonous Clouds.

My logic was that killing him swiftly in a few hits would have stopped him from deciding to use Iron Shot multiple times. The guy knew multiple spells, for example Mystic Blast, and at close range he seemed to prefer his Demon Whip over casting, so the less turns he had to decide to use Iron Shot, the more likely a victory would've been. My running away, prolonging the fight, and giving him plenty of extra chances to cast Iron Shot, was a bad idea.

Anyway I dislike the use of terms such as "the only reasonably safe method", because there are an infinite number of solutions to any situation, both in Crawl and in real-life. One of my mottos is "What box?". If/when I prove you wrong about Frederick, I'll let you know, don't worry.

[KoboldLord]

My logic was that killing him swiftly in a few hits

You had no reasonable expectation that this was possible. Unless you left off some useful attack, you had some air magic spells and a lajatang of pain (with necromancy of only 9) to work with. None of these would chip through Frederick's fat sack of hp anywhere near fast enough to be less than suicidal, unless you can can do it while hanging outside of his effective range.

[SchwaWarrior]

You had no reasonable expectation that this was possible. Unless you left off some useful attack, you had some air magic spells and a lajatang of pain (with necromancy of only 9) to work with. None of these would chip through Frederick's fat sack of hp anywhere near fast enough to be less than suicidal, unless you can can do it while hanging outside of his effective range.

Like I said, I'll let you know when/if I prove you wrong. ^^

[AtT]

You might consider getting stealth up to around 8ish on your casters so that if you do end up walking up to Fredrick, he likely won't notice you. Then you can simply leave without engaging if you're not in an ideal fighting situation. Remember when hybridizing not to spread yourself too thin and be kind of mediocre at everything. Frederick can be easy if you wait until you have a safe path and full mana, most casters can have poisonous cloud by the time they run into Frederick, and you can simply place the cloud in front of him barely hitting him and retreat. When is about to get out of the cloud, place another covering the most possible unclouded squares in your path of retreat. Do this a few times and he won't get to hit you. If you don't have the appropriate resistances/spells or are not at full hp/mp for an engagement simply don't make it unless absolutely necessary. Don't forget scrolls and and wands that fire over water makes LOS blocking steam (saved me in swamp)

[joellercoaster]

So yeah - I don't normally bother, but, killing Dowan first then just waiting out Duvessa's one-off berserk? Super duper much easier

[joellercoaster]

Also:

Trampling monsters can't move you around when you stand directly between them!

Yes, this is actually useful

[cerebovssquire]

I actually learned this yesterday, but NEVER EVER EVER ENGAGE THAT CHICK WITH THE COMPANY OF HELL KNIGHTS ON A MUMMY FIGHTER THAT'S BEEN GOING GREAT BUT STILL HAS AN x in FIRE RESISTANCE. NEVER! One hellfire/or whatever it was, got me from 135 health to 35. I put on a ring of fire resist but it was too late, I died by her demon trident of flaming in 1-2 turns.

Hellfire is unresistable even rFire+++ would not have helped that. Immune monsters have rHellfire+.

Luckily Margery doesn't have Hellfire, but Fireball and Bolt of Fire.
Plus, Hellfire isn't affected by rF-.

[TwilightPhoenix]

Speaking of Dowan and Duvessa, I might have said this somewhere before, but enslaving Duvessa and ordering her to kill Dowan is hilarious.

[varsovie]

An altar of Jiyva on D3...

run away!