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ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Saturday, 4th July 2015, 12:30by radinms
i compared each damage of ranged weapon(large rock, javelin, tomahawk, triple crossbow, longbow) at fsim.
(Fighting20, Str20, Dex20, vs Hell sentinel - worst enemy at extended game)
the result
- at skill27: large rock >> steel javelin > +9 triple crossbow of holy wrath > steel tomahawk > +9 longbow of holy wrath
- at skill27, no ego: large rock >> javelin > tomahawk > +9 triple crossbow > +9 longbow
- at skill27, ego included and not included :
large rock (48.3) >> steel javelin (37.8) > +9 holy triple crossbow (31.9) > steel tomahawk (30.1) > javelin (29.1) > +9 holy longbow(26.5) > tomahawk(23.1) > +9 triple crossbow(18.2) > +9 longbow (15.1)
that result shows
- how good end game throwing is. normal javelin >= +9 triple crossbow(speed), steel javelin > +9 triple crossbow(holy)
- how good even tomahawk is. steel tomahawk > normal javelin, normal tomahawk >= +9 triple crossbow(velocity)
- conversely how bad not holy triple crossbow or longbow are. they are inferior to even normal tomahawk
- how great holy ego are. even holy longbow > normal tomahawk, and holy triple crossbow is top-tier ranged weapon except large rock and steel javelin
here is fsim data.
+9 holy triple crossbow
- Code:
Wielding: +9 triple crossbow of holy wrath with 30 bolts, Skill: Crossbows
Hell Sentinel: HD 19 AC 25 EV 3
Crossbows | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 19.9 | 126 | 91% | 18.2 | 230 | 0.43 | 7.9
1 | 19.8 | 114 | 90% | 18.0 | 225 | 0.44 | 8.0
2 | 21.0 | 121 | 90% | 19.0 | 220 | 0.45 | 8.6
3 | 21.1 | 120 | 91% | 19.4 | 215 | 0.47 | 9.0
4 | 21.2 | 153 | 90% | 19.3 | 210 | 0.48 | 9.2
5 | 21.3 | 123 | 91% | 19.5 | 205 | 0.49 | 9.5
6 | 21.7 | 129 | 91% | 19.9 | 200 | 0.50 | 9.9
7 | 22.6 | 129 | 91% | 20.6 | 195 | 0.51 | 10.6
8 | 23.6 | 122 | 92% | 21.7 | 190 | 0.53 | 11.4
9 | 24.0 | 140 | 91% | 22.1 | 185 | 0.54 | 11.9
10 | 24.4 | 126 | 90% | 22.2 | 180 | 0.56 | 12.3
11 | 24.9 | 140 | 92% | 22.9 | 175 | 0.57 | 13.1
12 | 25.6 | 145 | 92% | 23.6 | 170 | 0.59 | 13.9
13 | 26.2 | 165 | 92% | 24.4 | 165 | 0.61 | 14.8
14 | 25.9 | 144 | 91% | 23.7 | 160 | 0.62 | 14.8
15 | 26.7 | 154 | 91% | 24.5 | 155 | 0.64 | 15.8
16 | 28.1 | 169 | 92% | 25.9 | 150 | 0.67 | 17.3
17 | 28.6 | 159 | 92% | 26.4 | 145 | 0.69 | 18.2
18 | 28.5 | 160 | 91% | 26.2 | 140 | 0.71 | 18.7
19 | 28.7 | 154 | 92% | 26.5 | 135 | 0.74 | 19.6
20 | 29.8 | 186 | 92% | 27.5 | 130 | 0.77 | 21.2
21 | 30.9 | 193 | 91% | 28.2 | 125 | 0.80 | 22.6
22 | 30.4 | 178 | 91% | 27.8 | 120 | 0.83 | 23.2
23 | 31.7 | 165 | 92% | 29.4 | 115 | 0.87 | 25.6
24 | 32.6 | 184 | 92% | 30.1 | 110 | 0.91 | 27.3
25 | 33.7 | 211 | 91% | 30.7 | 105 | 0.95 | 29.3
26 | 33.1 | 229 | 91% | 30.4 | 100 | 1.00 | 30.4
27 | 34.3 | 210 | 93% | 31.9 | 100 | 1.00 | 31.9
+9 holy longbow
- Code:
Wielding: +9 longbow of holy wrath with 30 arrows, Skill: Bows
Hell Sentinel: HD 19 AC 25 EV 3
Bows | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 11.3 | 78 | 91% | 10.3 | 170 | 0.59 | 6.0
1 | 11.4 | 87 | 90% | 10.3 | 165 | 0.61 | 6.3
2 | 11.4 | 84 | 90% | 10.4 | 160 | 0.62 | 6.5
3 | 12.0 | 98 | 90% | 10.8 | 155 | 0.65 | 7.0
4 | 11.9 | 90 | 90% | 10.9 | 150 | 0.67 | 7.2
5 | 12.5 | 88 | 91% | 11.4 | 145 | 0.69 | 7.9
6 | 12.9 | 92 | 90% | 11.7 | 140 | 0.71 | 8.4
7 | 13.0 | 96 | 91% | 11.8 | 135 | 0.74 | 8.8
8 | 13.7 | 91 | 91% | 12.5 | 130 | 0.77 | 9.6
9 | 14.0 | 88 | 91% | 12.8 | 125 | 0.80 | 10.2
10 | 14.2 | 87 | 92% | 13.2 | 120 | 0.83 | 11.0
11 | 14.3 | 104 | 90% | 13.0 | 115 | 0.87 | 11.3
12 | 14.5 | 107 | 91% | 13.3 | 110 | 0.91 | 12.1
13 | 15.2 | 101 | 92% | 14.0 | 105 | 0.95 | 13.3
14 | 15.5 | 121 | 92% | 14.2 | 100 | 1.00 | 14.2
15 | 15.7 | 105 | 91% | 14.3 | 95 | 1.05 | 15.1
16 | 15.3 | 111 | 92% | 14.2 | 90 | 1.11 | 15.7
17 | 16.2 | 104 | 92% | 14.9 | 85 | 1.18 | 17.6
18 | 16.8 | 126 | 91% | 15.5 | 80 | 1.25 | 19.3
19 | 17.1 | 113 | 91% | 15.7 | 75 | 1.33 | 21.0
20 | 17.2 | 125 | 93% | 16.0 | 70 | 1.43 | 22.8
21 | 18.0 | 128 | 92% | 16.6 | 70 | 1.43 | 23.7
22 | 18.1 | 131 | 92% | 16.7 | 70 | 1.43 | 23.9
23 | 18.8 | 118 | 92% | 17.4 | 70 | 1.43 | 24.9
24 | 19.1 | 131 | 92% | 17.6 | 70 | 1.43 | 25.2
25 | 19.5 | 146 | 92% | 18.0 | 70 | 1.43 | 25.7
26 | 19.9 | 154 | 92% | 18.4 | 70 | 1.43 | 26.3
27 | 20.0 | 150 | 92% | 18.6 | 70 | 1.43 | 26.5
large rock
- Code:
Wielding: +0 blowgun with 30 large rocks, Skill: Throwing
Hell Sentinel: HD 19 AC 25 EV 3
Throwing | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 6.8 | 42 | 89% | 6.1 | 100 | 1.00 | 6.1
1 | 7.1 | 43 | 88% | 6.3 | 98 | 1.02 | 6.4
2 | 8.0 | 45 | 89% | 7.2 | 96 | 1.04 | 7.5
3 | 8.6 | 47 | 90% | 7.7 | 94 | 1.06 | 8.2
4 | 9.3 | 49 | 91% | 8.5 | 93 | 1.08 | 9.1
5 | 10.0 | 50 | 89% | 9.0 | 91 | 1.10 | 9.8
6 | 10.7 | 52 | 90% | 9.6 | 89 | 1.12 | 10.8
7 | 11.4 | 56 | 90% | 10.3 | 87 | 1.15 | 11.8
8 | 12.3 | 62 | 89% | 11.0 | 85 | 1.17 | 13.0
9 | 12.4 | 58 | 90% | 11.2 | 83 | 1.20 | 13.5
10 | 13.3 | 60 | 90% | 11.9 | 82 | 1.23 | 14.6
11 | 14.2 | 68 | 91% | 12.9 | 80 | 1.26 | 16.2
12 | 14.4 | 68 | 90% | 13.0 | 78 | 1.29 | 16.7
13 | 15.8 | 64 | 90% | 14.2 | 76 | 1.32 | 18.7
14 | 16.5 | 77 | 90% | 14.9 | 74 | 1.35 | 20.2
15 | 17.2 | 71 | 90% | 15.6 | 72 | 1.39 | 21.7
16 | 17.5 | 74 | 91% | 15.9 | 70 | 1.42 | 22.7
17 | 18.5 | 81 | 91% | 16.9 | 69 | 1.46 | 24.4
18 | 19.2 | 81 | 90% | 17.3 | 67 | 1.50 | 25.8
19 | 20.1 | 90 | 90% | 18.2 | 65 | 1.54 | 28.1
20 | 21.0 | 90 | 90% | 19.0 | 63 | 1.59 | 30.1
21 | 21.4 | 89 | 91% | 19.5 | 61 | 1.63 | 31.9
22 | 22.5 | 90 | 91% | 20.5 | 59 | 1.69 | 34.7
23 | 22.5 | 93 | 91% | 20.5 | 57 | 1.74 | 36.0
24 | 23.9 | 94 | 91% | 21.9 | 56 | 1.80 | 39.1
25 | 24.5 | 97 | 91% | 22.4 | 54 | 1.86 | 41.6
26 | 24.8 | 100 | 91% | 22.5 | 52 | 1.93 | 43.4
27 | 26.5 | 100 | 91% | 24.2 | 50 | 2.00 | 48.3
steel javelin
- Code:
Wielding: +0 blowgun with 30 steel javelins, Skill: Throwing
Hell Sentinel: HD 19 AC 25 EV 3
Throwing | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 2.8 | 25 | 89% | 2.5 | 100 | 1.00 | 2.5
1 | 3.3 | 30 | 89% | 3.0 | 98 | 1.02 | 3.0
2 | 3.9 | 32 | 88% | 3.5 | 96 | 1.04 | 3.6
3 | 4.3 | 32 | 89% | 3.8 | 94 | 1.06 | 4.1
4 | 4.7 | 33 | 89% | 4.2 | 93 | 1.08 | 4.5
5 | 5.3 | 37 | 89% | 4.8 | 91 | 1.10 | 5.2
6 | 5.9 | 40 | 90% | 5.3 | 89 | 1.12 | 6.0
7 | 6.8 | 40 | 90% | 6.1 | 87 | 1.15 | 7.1
8 | 7.2 | 42 | 89% | 6.5 | 85 | 1.17 | 7.6
9 | 7.7 | 45 | 89% | 6.9 | 83 | 1.20 | 8.3
10 | 8.6 | 47 | 91% | 7.8 | 81 | 1.23 | 9.6
11 | 9.4 | 51 | 90% | 8.5 | 80 | 1.26 | 10.6
12 | 9.7 | 54 | 90% | 8.8 | 78 | 1.28 | 11.3
13 | 10.7 | 55 | 90% | 9.6 | 76 | 1.32 | 12.7
14 | 11.4 | 56 | 91% | 10.4 | 74 | 1.35 | 14.0
15 | 11.9 | 59 | 90% | 10.8 | 72 | 1.38 | 15.0
16 | 12.4 | 57 | 90% | 11.2 | 70 | 1.42 | 16.0
17 | 13.5 | 60 | 90% | 12.2 | 69 | 1.46 | 17.7
18 | 14.0 | 63 | 91% | 12.7 | 67 | 1.50 | 19.0
19 | 14.9 | 70 | 91% | 13.6 | 65 | 1.54 | 21.0
20 | 15.6 | 67 | 90% | 14.1 | 63 | 1.59 | 22.3
21 | 16.4 | 69 | 90% | 14.9 | 61 | 1.64 | 24.5
22 | 17.2 | 73 | 91% | 15.7 | 59 | 1.69 | 26.6
23 | 18.2 | 74 | 91% | 16.6 | 58 | 1.74 | 28.6
24 | 18.5 | 78 | 91% | 16.9 | 56 | 1.80 | 30.1
25 | 19.2 | 79 | 90% | 17.4 | 54 | 1.86 | 32.3
26 | 20.7 | 84 | 91% | 18.9 | 52 | 1.93 | 36.4
27 | 20.7 | 91 | 91% | 18.9 | 50 | 2.00 | 37.8
steel tomahawk
- Code:
Wielding: +0 blowgun with 30 steel tomahawks, Skill: Throwing
Hell Sentinel: HD 19 AC 25 EV 3
Throwing | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 0.9 | 15 | 89% | 0.8 | 100 | 1.00 | 0.8
1 | 1.2 | 18 | 89% | 1.1 | 98 | 1.02 | 1.1
2 | 1.7 | 18 | 89% | 1.5 | 96 | 1.04 | 1.6
3 | 2.0 | 23 | 90% | 1.8 | 94 | 1.06 | 1.9
4 | 2.3 | 23 | 89% | 2.1 | 93 | 1.08 | 2.2
5 | 2.7 | 26 | 90% | 2.5 | 91 | 1.10 | 2.7
6 | 3.1 | 29 | 90% | 2.8 | 89 | 1.13 | 3.2
7 | 3.7 | 29 | 89% | 3.3 | 87 | 1.15 | 3.8
8 | 4.3 | 33 | 89% | 3.8 | 85 | 1.17 | 4.5
9 | 4.7 | 34 | 90% | 4.3 | 83 | 1.20 | 5.2
10 | 5.3 | 34 | 90% | 4.8 | 82 | 1.23 | 5.8
11 | 5.8 | 41 | 90% | 5.3 | 80 | 1.26 | 6.6
12 | 6.7 | 44 | 89% | 6.0 | 78 | 1.29 | 7.7
13 | 7.2 | 43 | 89% | 6.4 | 76 | 1.32 | 8.5
14 | 7.9 | 47 | 91% | 7.2 | 74 | 1.35 | 9.8
15 | 8.4 | 52 | 90% | 7.6 | 72 | 1.38 | 10.6
16 | 9.1 | 50 | 91% | 8.4 | 70 | 1.42 | 11.9
17 | 9.8 | 53 | 90% | 8.8 | 69 | 1.46 | 12.8
18 | 10.6 | 56 | 91% | 9.6 | 67 | 1.50 | 14.4
19 | 10.9 | 62 | 91% | 10.0 | 65 | 1.54 | 15.3
20 | 12.2 | 61 | 91% | 11.1 | 63 | 1.59 | 17.7
21 | 12.4 | 60 | 90% | 11.3 | 61 | 1.64 | 18.5
22 | 13.2 | 68 | 91% | 12.0 | 59 | 1.69 | 20.3
23 | 13.8 | 63 | 90% | 12.6 | 57 | 1.74 | 22.0
24 | 14.5 | 65 | 91% | 13.3 | 56 | 1.80 | 23.8
25 | 15.7 | 68 | 91% | 14.4 | 54 | 1.86 | 26.7
26 | 16.3 | 73 | 92% | 15.0 | 52 | 1.93 | 28.8
27 | 16.5 | 73 | 91% | 15.0 | 50 | 2.00 | 30.1
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Saturday, 4th July 2015, 13:00by mps
How does the comparison for large rock vs. arbalest w/ silver bolt at skill 18 look vs. OOF? (I agree triple xbow is bad in terms of xp efficiency, but the damage isn't imo.)
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Saturday, 4th July 2015, 14:49by MainiacJoe
Considering 0.16 and trunk, in which versions is armor evasion penalty also added as delay? IIRC it was removed for UC in trunk but I'm not sure about throwing. IMO this has been the counterbalance to the greatly increased damage for throwing that comes from (base + skill level).
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Saturday, 4th July 2015, 16:52by Pollen_Golem
radinms wrote:the result
...- at skill27, ego included and not included :
large rock (48.3) >> steel javelin (37.8) > +9 holy triple crossbow (31.9) > steel tomahawk (30.1) > javelin (29.1) > +9 holy longbow(26.5) > tomahawk(23.1) > +9 triple crossbow(18.2) > +9 longbow (15.1)
Wow, that is just so unbalanced. I am speechless.
mps wrote: (I agree triple xbow is bad in terms of xp efficiency, but the damage isn't imo.)
+9 holy triple (good luck getting that!) is about as good as a plain javelin, vs a high-AC demon. You call that good damage? You can even wear a shield and stat/resist-stick while throwing.
Edit: please run a test for plain thrown rocks versus Hell Sentinels.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Saturday, 4th July 2015, 22:00by Berder
I'm amazed by how powerful tomahawks are in the late game, considering they're so terrible at 0 sill (worse than slinging stones). I'd like to see how a +9 greatsling compares vs these.
A triple xbow does have one advantage over throwing, namely a much greater prevalence of ammo.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Sunday, 5th July 2015, 04:38by radinms
this comparison and fsim were biased(vs hell sentinel, skill 27), so next time i will compare the damage at skill20, vs stone giant, OoF for 3 runes.
Pollen_Golem, what is plain thrown rocks?? i only know "large rock". small rock exists??
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Sunday, 5th July 2015, 04:54by Pollen_Golem
radinms, I meant "stones", the most common missile in the game. They can be used as ammo for slings. Their base damage is 2/3 as much as that of tomahawks.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Sunday, 5th July 2015, 05:15by radinms
ok, i understand.
next i will try +9 great sling(holy) + sling bullet. (It is equivalent to +9 scimitar(holy).)
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Sunday, 5th July 2015, 06:22by Siegurt
Pollen_Golem wrote:radinms, I meant "stones", the most common missile in the game. They can be used as ammo for slings. Their base damage is 2/3 as much as that of tomahawks.
Also note that thrown stones get 1/2 as much benefit (damage wise) from the throwing skill, which makes them pretty much awful past a certain point.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 04:38by radinms
here is +9 great sling(holy).
not garbage. but very weak so you shouldn't bless sling.
- Code:
Attack: Human Monk vs. Hell Sentinel (4000 rounds) (2015/07/06/13:35:32)
Human Monk: XL 22 Str 20 Int 11 Dex 20
Wielding: +9 greatsling of holy wrath with 30 sling bullets, Skill: Slings
Hell Sentinel: HD 19 AC 25 EV 3
Slings | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 8.1 | 67 | 90% | 7.4 | 140 | 0.71 | 5.3
1 | 8.2 | 75 | 90% | 7.4 | 135 | 0.74 | 5.5
2 | 8.1 | 73 | 90% | 7.3 | 130 | 0.77 | 5.6
3 | 8.3 | 67 | 90% | 7.6 | 125 | 0.80 | 6.1
4 | 8.7 | 70 | 89% | 7.8 | 120 | 0.83 | 6.5
5 | 8.7 | 70 | 90% | 7.9 | 115 | 0.87 | 6.9
6 | 9.1 | 73 | 91% | 8.3 | 110 | 0.91 | 7.5
7 | 9.4 | 75 | 91% | 8.6 | 105 | 0.95 | 8.2
8 | 9.6 | 79 | 91% | 8.7 | 100 | 1.00 | 8.7
9 | 9.8 | 71 | 91% | 9.0 | 95 | 1.05 | 9.4
10 | 10.2 | 82 | 91% | 9.4 | 90 | 1.11 | 10.4
11 | 10.0 | 86 | 92% | 9.2 | 85 | 1.18 | 10.8
12 | 10.5 | 75 | 91% | 9.6 | 80 | 1.25 | 12.0
13 | 10.7 | 81 | 91% | 9.8 | 75 | 1.34 | 13.1
14 | 10.8 | 91 | 91% | 9.9 | 70 | 1.43 | 14.2
15 | 11.5 | 90 | 91% | 10.5 | 70 | 1.43 | 15.0
16 | 11.8 | 91 | 91% | 10.8 | 70 | 1.43 | 15.4
17 | 11.8 | 100 | 91% | 10.8 | 70 | 1.43 | 15.4
18 | 11.9 | 88 | 91% | 11.0 | 70 | 1.43 | 15.7
19 | 11.9 | 94 | 91% | 10.9 | 70 | 1.43 | 15.5
20 | 12.2 | 99 | 92% | 11.3 | 70 | 1.43 | 16.2
21 | 13.3 | 99 | 91% | 12.2 | 70 | 1.43 | 17.4
22 | 13.3 | 95 | 92% | 12.3 | 70 | 1.43 | 17.5
23 | 12.9 | 106 | 91% | 11.9 | 70 | 1.43 | 16.9
24 | 13.9 | 118 | 91% | 12.8 | 70 | 1.43 | 18.2
25 | 13.5 | 93 | 92% | 12.5 | 70 | 1.43 | 17.8
26 | 14.1 | 121 | 92% | 13.1 | 70 | 1.43 | 18.7
27 | 14.8 | 102 | 92% | 13.6 | 70 | 1.43 | 19.5
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 04:49by radinms
here is vs OoF data.
that results show
-at skill 18, almost same except longbow
-at skill 20, silver javelin is slightly more powerful
-at skill 27, silver javelin is top-tier
+9 arbalest of velocity(silver bolt)
- Code:
Troll Monk: XL 15 Str 20 Int 10 Dex 20
Wielding: +9 arbalest of velocity with 30 silver bolts, Skill: Crossbows
orb of fire: HD 30 AC 20 EV 20
Crossbows | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 18.4 | 82 | 55% | 10.2 | 190 | 0.53 | 5.4
1 | 18.6 | 93 | 53% | 10.0 | 185 | 0.54 | 5.4
2 | 19.2 | 78 | 55% | 10.6 | 180 | 0.56 | 5.9
3 | 19.6 | 89 | 56% | 11.1 | 175 | 0.57 | 6.3
4 | 19.6 | 84 | 56% | 11.1 | 170 | 0.59 | 6.5
5 | 20.4 | 90 | 57% | 11.6 | 165 | 0.61 | 7.1
6 | 21.1 | 98 | 58% | 12.3 | 160 | 0.62 | 7.7
7 | 21.6 | 101 | 57% | 12.5 | 155 | 0.65 | 8.1
8 | 20.7 | 95 | 59% | 12.3 | 150 | 0.67 | 8.2
9 | 21.3 | 106 | 60% | 12.9 | 145 | 0.69 | 8.9
10 | 22.4 | 95 | 59% | 13.4 | 140 | 0.71 | 9.6
11 | 23.4 | 102 | 59% | 13.9 | 135 | 0.74 | 10.3
12 | 22.6 | 110 | 59% | 13.4 | 130 | 0.77 | 10.3
13 | 25.0 | 105 | 62% | 15.6 | 125 | 0.80 | 12.5
14 | 24.6 | 114 | 63% | 15.7 | 120 | 0.83 | 13.1
15 | 24.4 | 101 | 59% | 14.6 | 115 | 0.87 | 12.7
16 | 24.5 | 120 | 61% | 15.1 | 110 | 0.91 | 13.7
17 | 25.2 | 113 | 63% | 15.9 | 105 | 0.95 | 15.2
18 | 27.2 | 115 | 62% | 17.0 | 100 | 1.00 | 17.0
19 | 26.7 | 125 | 63% | 16.9 | 100 | 1.00 | 16.9
20 | 27.3 | 127 | 62% | 17.0 | 100 | 1.00 | 17.0
21 | 28.0 | 139 | 63% | 17.8 | 100 | 1.00 | 17.8
22 | 29.7 | 125 | 63% | 18.7 | 100 | 1.00 | 18.7
23 | 29.6 | 137 | 62% | 18.5 | 100 | 1.00 | 18.5
24 | 29.8 | 135 | 64% | 19.1 | 100 | 1.00 | 19.1
25 | 30.1 | 137 | 64% | 19.4 | 100 | 1.00 | 19.4
26 | 31.0 | 139 | 64% | 19.9 | 100 | 1.00 | 19.9
27 | 31.7 | 143 | 64% | 20.6 | 100 | 1.00 | 20.6
-----------------------------------
+9 triple crossbow of velocity ( silver bolt)
- Code:
Attack: Human Monk vs. orb of fire (4000 rounds) (2015/07/06/13:47:01)
Human Monk: XL 22 Str 20 Int 11 Dex 20
Wielding: +9 triple crossbow of velocity with 30 silver bolts, Skill: Crossbows
orb of fire: HD 30 AC 20 EV 20
Crossbows | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 23.9 | 108 | 52% | 12.4 | 230 | 0.43 | 5.4
1 | 24.3 | 103 | 53% | 13.1 | 225 | 0.44 | 5.8
2 | 24.8 | 102 | 53% | 13.2 | 220 | 0.45 | 6.0
3 | 25.8 | 102 | 54% | 14.0 | 215 | 0.47 | 6.5
4 | 26.0 | 106 | 56% | 14.7 | 210 | 0.48 | 7.0
5 | 26.9 | 106 | 55% | 14.9 | 205 | 0.49 | 7.3
6 | 27.1 | 120 | 56% | 15.4 | 200 | 0.50 | 7.7
7 | 27.1 | 114 | 57% | 15.7 | 195 | 0.51 | 8.0
8 | 27.6 | 115 | 57% | 15.8 | 190 | 0.53 | 8.3
9 | 28.7 | 115 | 58% | 16.7 | 185 | 0.54 | 9.0
10 | 30.5 | 138 | 58% | 17.8 | 180 | 0.56 | 9.9
11 | 31.2 | 120 | 57% | 18.0 | 175 | 0.57 | 10.3
12 | 30.6 | 126 | 58% | 18.0 | 170 | 0.59 | 10.6
13 | 31.4 | 128 | 60% | 19.1 | 165 | 0.61 | 11.6
14 | 32.4 | 145 | 59% | 19.3 | 160 | 0.62 | 12.0
15 | 32.7 | 141 | 60% | 19.7 | 155 | 0.65 | 12.7
16 | 33.2 | 141 | 61% | 20.3 | 150 | 0.67 | 13.5
17 | 33.6 | 160 | 59% | 20.1 | 145 | 0.69 | 13.8
18 | 34.7 | 147 | 61% | 21.2 | 140 | 0.71 | 15.2
19 | 34.1 | 147 | 61% | 21.1 | 135 | 0.74 | 15.6
20 | 35.6 | 156 | 62% | 22.3 | 130 | 0.77 | 17.2
21 | 36.3 | 155 | 60% | 22.0 | 125 | 0.80 | 17.6
22 | 37.9 | 180 | 61% | 23.5 | 120 | 0.83 | 19.5
23 | 38.9 | 158 | 61% | 23.8 | 115 | 0.87 | 20.7
24 | 38.9 | 160 | 64% | 25.0 | 110 | 0.91 | 22.7
25 | 41.0 | 176 | 61% | 25.3 | 105 | 0.95 | 24.1
26 | 39.6 | 158 | 63% | 25.2 | 100 | 1.00 | 25.2
27 | 41.9 | 193 | 61% | 25.8 | 100 | 1.00 | 25.8
large rock
- Code:
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1384-gaabe8e5
Attack: Troll Monk vs. orb of fire (4000 rounds) (2015/07/06/12:58:50)
Troll Monk: XL 16 Str 20 Int 10 Dex 20
Wielding: +0 blowgun with 30 large rocks, Skill: Throwing
orb of fire: HD 30 AC 20 EV 20
Throwing | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 7.9 | 40 | 44% | 3.5 | 100 | 1.00 | 3.5
1 | 8.6 | 41 | 45% | 3.9 | 98 | 1.02 | 3.9
2 | 9.2 | 44 | 47% | 4.4 | 96 | 1.04 | 4.5
3 | 9.7 | 48 | 47% | 4.6 | 94 | 1.06 | 4.9
4 | 10.5 | 50 | 48% | 5.1 | 93 | 1.08 | 5.5
5 | 11.7 | 51 | 48% | 5.7 | 91 | 1.10 | 6.3
6 | 11.7 | 50 | 48% | 5.6 | 89 | 1.12 | 6.3
7 | 12.7 | 57 | 49% | 6.2 | 87 | 1.15 | 7.2
8 | 13.8 | 58 | 49% | 6.9 | 85 | 1.18 | 8.1
9 | 14.1 | 56 | 50% | 7.2 | 83 | 1.20 | 8.6
10 | 15.0 | 67 | 49% | 7.4 | 82 | 1.23 | 9.0
11 | 16.0 | 69 | 51% | 8.3 | 80 | 1.26 | 10.4
12 | 16.2 | 61 | 51% | 8.3 | 78 | 1.28 | 10.6
13 | 17.1 | 71 | 52% | 9.0 | 76 | 1.32 | 11.9
14 | 17.8 | 70 | 52% | 9.4 | 74 | 1.35 | 12.6
15 | 19.1 | 74 | 53% | 10.1 | 72 | 1.38 | 14.1
16 | 19.4 | 71 | 55% | 10.8 | 70 | 1.42 | 15.5
17 | 20.3 | 77 | 54% | 11.1 | 69 | 1.46 | 16.0
18 | 21.2 | 75 | 55% | 11.8 | 67 | 1.50 | 17.7
19 | 22.7 | 83 | 56% | 12.9 | 65 | 1.54 | 19.9
20 | 23.2 | 82 | 54% | 12.8 | 63 | 1.59 | 20.2
21 | 22.9 | 83 | 55% | 12.7 | 61 | 1.64 | 20.8
22 | 24.3 | 86 | 57% | 13.9 | 59 | 1.69 | 23.5
23 | 25.1 | 97 | 56% | 14.2 | 57 | 1.74 | 24.9
24 | 25.9 | 99 | 56% | 14.7 | 56 | 1.80 | 26.2
25 | 26.3 | 90 | 56% | 14.9 | 54 | 1.87 | 27.5
26 | 26.9 | 97 | 57% | 15.5 | 52 | 1.93 | 29.9
27 | 27.4 | 99 | 57% | 15.6 | 50 | 2.00 | 31.3
silver javelin
- Code:
Troll Monk: XL 16 Str 20 Int 10 Dex 20
Wielding: +0 blowgun with 30 silver javelins, Skill: Throwing
orb of fire: HD 30 AC 20 EV 20
Throwing | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 3.7 | 36 | 45% | 1.7 | 100 | 1.00 | 1.7
1 | 4.1 | 36 | 45% | 1.9 | 98 | 1.02 | 1.9
2 | 5.0 | 40 | 47% | 2.3 | 96 | 1.04 | 2.4
3 | 5.8 | 47 | 46% | 2.7 | 94 | 1.06 | 2.8
4 | 6.7 | 49 | 48% | 3.2 | 93 | 1.08 | 3.5
5 | 7.5 | 56 | 49% | 3.7 | 91 | 1.10 | 4.1
6 | 8.8 | 54 | 48% | 4.3 | 89 | 1.13 | 4.8
7 | 9.8 | 59 | 49% | 4.8 | 87 | 1.15 | 5.5
8 | 11.0 | 64 | 50% | 5.5 | 85 | 1.17 | 6.5
9 | 11.9 | 68 | 50% | 6.0 | 83 | 1.20 | 7.2
10 | 14.1 | 75 | 50% | 7.1 | 82 | 1.23 | 8.6
11 | 14.8 | 71 | 50% | 7.5 | 80 | 1.26 | 9.4
12 | 15.9 | 87 | 51% | 8.3 | 78 | 1.28 | 10.6
13 | 17.0 | 80 | 52% | 8.8 | 76 | 1.31 | 11.6
14 | 18.9 | 85 | 53% | 10.1 | 74 | 1.35 | 13.7
15 | 19.3 | 89 | 53% | 10.4 | 72 | 1.38 | 14.5
16 | 21.3 | 91 | 55% | 11.8 | 70 | 1.42 | 16.9
17 | 23.0 | 101 | 55% | 12.8 | 69 | 1.46 | 18.5
18 | 23.6 | 103 | 53% | 12.6 | 67 | 1.50 | 18.8
19 | 24.4 | 105 | 56% | 13.7 | 65 | 1.54 | 21.1
20 | 25.3 | 113 | 55% | 14.1 | 63 | 1.59 | 22.4
21 | 27.2 | 120 | 55% | 15.0 | 61 | 1.64 | 24.6
22 | 28.0 | 112 | 56% | 15.7 | 59 | 1.69 | 26.7
23 | 30.3 | 124 | 56% | 17.2 | 57 | 1.74 | 30.2
24 | 31.2 | 119 | 56% | 17.6 | 56 | 1.80 | 31.5
25 | 32.3 | 127 | 56% | 18.3 | 54 | 1.86 | 33.9
26 | 34.7 | 136 | 58% | 20.2 | 52 | 1.93 | 38.8
27 | 35.5 | 147 | 58% | 20.6 | 50 | 2.00 | 41.2
+9 longbow(velocity) (arrow of frost)
- Code:
Human Monk: XL 22 Str 20 Int 11 Dex 20
Wielding: +9 longbow of velocity with 30 arrows of frost, Skill: Bows
orb of fire: HD 30 AC 20 EV 20
Bows | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 10.0 | 49 | 53% | 5.3 | 170 | 0.59 | 3.1
1 | 10.0 | 53 | 52% | 5.2 | 165 | 0.61 | 3.1
2 | 10.4 | 58 | 54% | 5.6 | 160 | 0.62 | 3.5
3 | 10.4 | 55 | 55% | 5.8 | 155 | 0.64 | 3.7
4 | 10.6 | 55 | 54% | 5.7 | 150 | 0.67 | 3.8
5 | 11.1 | 62 | 56% | 6.2 | 145 | 0.69 | 4.3
6 | 11.4 | 55 | 57% | 6.5 | 140 | 0.71 | 4.7
7 | 11.5 | 57 | 55% | 6.4 | 135 | 0.74 | 4.7
8 | 11.7 | 59 | 55% | 6.5 | 130 | 0.77 | 5.0
9 | 11.8 | 51 | 57% | 6.8 | 125 | 0.80 | 5.4
10 | 12.5 | 60 | 58% | 7.3 | 120 | 0.83 | 6.1
11 | 12.5 | 65 | 59% | 7.4 | 115 | 0.87 | 6.5
12 | 12.9 | 70 | 58% | 7.6 | 110 | 0.91 | 6.9
13 | 13.0 | 61 | 58% | 7.7 | 105 | 0.95 | 7.3
14 | 13.4 | 68 | 59% | 8.0 | 100 | 1.00 | 8.0
15 | 13.1 | 68 | 58% | 7.6 | 95 | 1.05 | 8.0
16 | 13.7 | 69 | 60% | 8.3 | 90 | 1.11 | 9.2
17 | 14.2 | 72 | 59% | 8.5 | 85 | 1.18 | 10.0
18 | 14.9 | 72 | 60% | 8.9 | 80 | 1.25 | 11.2
19 | 14.7 | 73 | 59% | 8.8 | 75 | 1.33 | 11.8
20 | 14.8 | 76 | 61% | 9.1 | 70 | 1.43 | 13.0
21 | 15.6 | 76 | 62% | 9.8 | 70 | 1.43 | 14.0
22 | 15.7 | 74 | 62% | 9.8 | 70 | 1.43 | 14.0
23 | 15.8 | 81 | 62% | 9.9 | 70 | 1.43 | 14.1
24 | 16.3 | 87 | 63% | 10.4 | 70 | 1.43 | 14.8
25 | 16.6 | 86 | 62% | 10.4 | 70 | 1.43 | 14.9
26 | 17.0 | 94 | 63% | 10.7 | 70 | 1.43 | 15.3
27 | 17.4 | 97 | 63% | 11.1 | 70 | 1.43 | 15.8
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 05:02by radinms
here is vs stone giant.
that result shows
-velocity+elemental combo is awesome
-throwing is awesome
+9 arbalest of velocity(bolt of frost)
- Code:
Attack: Human Monk vs. stone giant (4000 rounds)
Human Monk: XL 22 Str 20 Int 11 Dex 20
Wielding: +9 arbalest of velocity with 30 bolts of frost, Skill: Crossbows
stone giant: HD 16 AC 12 EV 2
Crossbows | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 18.9 | 70 | 93% | 17.7 | 190 | 0.53 | 9.3
1 | 18.9 | 70 | 92% | 17.6 | 185 | 0.54 | 9.5
2 | 19.0 | 73 | 93% | 17.8 | 180 | 0.56 | 9.9
3 | 19.2 | 77 | 93% | 17.9 | 175 | 0.57 | 10.2
4 | 19.9 | 79 | 93% | 18.7 | 170 | 0.59 | 11.0
5 | 19.8 | 80 | 93% | 18.5 | 165 | 0.61 | 11.2
6 | 20.1 | 82 | 93% | 18.9 | 160 | 0.62 | 11.8
7 | 20.8 | 82 | 92% | 19.4 | 155 | 0.65 | 12.5
8 | 21.2 | 101 | 94% | 20.0 | 150 | 0.67 | 13.3
9 | 21.8 | 78 | 93% | 20.4 | 145 | 0.69 | 14.1
10 | 22.0 | 86 | 93% | 20.7 | 140 | 0.71 | 14.8
11 | 22.3 | 101 | 93% | 20.9 | 135 | 0.74 | 15.5
12 | 22.5 | 81 | 93% | 21.1 | 130 | 0.77 | 16.2
13 | 23.0 | 96 | 93% | 21.6 | 125 | 0.80 | 17.3
14 | 23.4 | 102 | 94% | 22.1 | 120 | 0.83 | 18.4
15 | 24.1 | 108 | 94% | 22.7 | 115 | 0.87 | 19.7
16 | 23.9 | 100 | 93% | 22.4 | 110 | 0.91 | 20.3
17 | 24.7 | 103 | 93% | 23.1 | 105 | 0.95 | 22.0
18 | 25.3 | 118 | 94% | 24.0 | 100 | 1.00 | 24.0
19 | 25.0 | 95 | 94% | 23.7 | 100 | 1.00 | 23.7
20 | 26.3 | 112 | 93% | 24.7 | 100 | 1.00 | 24.7
21 | 25.9 | 102 | 93% | 24.3 | 100 | 1.00 | 24.3
22 | 26.5 | 123 | 93% | 24.7 | 100 | 1.00 | 24.7
23 | 26.9 | 131 | 93% | 25.2 | 100 | 1.00 | 25.2
24 | 26.7 | 106 | 93% | 25.1 | 100 | 1.00 | 25.1
25 | 27.7 | 115 | 94% | 26.2 | 100 | 1.00 | 26.2
26 | 28.4 | 115 | 94% | 26.7 | 100 | 1.00 | 26.7
27 | 28.7 | 115 | 94% | 27.1 | 100 | 1.00 | 27.1
+9 longbow of velocity( arrow of frost)
- Code:
Human Monk: XL 21 Str 20 Int 11 Dex 20
Wielding: +9 longbow of velocity with 30 arrows of frost, Skill: Bows
stone giant: HD 16 AC 12 EV 2
Bows | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 15.8 | 65 | 92% | 14.6 | 170 | 0.59 | 8.6
1 | 15.5 | 63 | 93% | 14.5 | 165 | 0.61 | 8.8
2 | 15.8 | 66 | 93% | 14.8 | 160 | 0.62 | 9.2
3 | 16.3 | 77 | 93% | 15.3 | 155 | 0.65 | 9.8
4 | 16.7 | 64 | 93% | 15.5 | 150 | 0.67 | 10.4
5 | 16.6 | 69 | 92% | 15.4 | 145 | 0.69 | 10.6
6 | 16.9 | 70 | 93% | 15.7 | 140 | 0.71 | 11.2
7 | 17.5 | 66 | 93% | 16.3 | 135 | 0.74 | 12.1
8 | 17.5 | 71 | 93% | 16.4 | 130 | 0.77 | 12.6
9 | 17.9 | 77 | 94% | 16.8 | 125 | 0.80 | 13.4
10 | 18.2 | 74 | 94% | 17.2 | 120 | 0.83 | 14.3
11 | 18.2 | 86 | 93% | 17.0 | 115 | 0.87 | 14.8
12 | 19.1 | 72 | 93% | 17.8 | 110 | 0.91 | 16.2
13 | 19.1 | 76 | 93% | 17.8 | 105 | 0.95 | 17.0
14 | 19.4 | 81 | 94% | 18.3 | 100 | 1.00 | 18.3
15 | 19.5 | 82 | 93% | 18.1 | 95 | 1.05 | 19.1
16 | 20.4 | 85 | 94% | 19.2 | 90 | 1.11 | 21.3
17 | 20.5 | 78 | 93% | 19.3 | 85 | 1.18 | 22.6
18 | 20.9 | 86 | 93% | 19.5 | 80 | 1.25 | 24.4
19 | 21.3 | 86 | 93% | 20.0 | 75 | 1.34 | 26.6
20 | 21.2 | 84 | 93% | 19.8 | 70 | 1.43 | 28.3
21 | 21.7 | 89 | 93% | 20.4 | 70 | 1.43 | 29.1
22 | 22.3 | 92 | 93% | 20.9 | 70 | 1.43 | 29.8
23 | 22.4 | 96 | 93% | 20.9 | 70 | 1.43 | 29.9
24 | 22.6 | 111 | 93% | 21.1 | 70 | 1.43 | 30.2
25 | 22.9 | 85 | 94% | 21.6 | 70 | 1.43 | 30.8
26 | 23.8 | 99 | 94% | 22.4 | 70 | 1.43 | 32.0
27 | 23.4 | 93 | 94% | 22.0 | 70 | 1.43 | 31.4
steel tomahawk
- Code:
Human Monk: XL 22 Str 20 Int 11 Dex 20
Wielding: +0 blowgun with 30 steel tomahawks, Skill: Throwing
stone giant: HD 16 AC 12 EV 2
Throwing | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 2.0 | 16 | 91% | 1.8 | 100 | 1.00 | 1.8
1 | 2.5 | 18 | 92% | 2.3 | 98 | 1.02 | 2.3
2 | 3.2 | 21 | 91% | 2.9 | 96 | 1.04 | 3.0
3 | 3.7 | 24 | 92% | 3.4 | 94 | 1.06 | 3.7
4 | 4.4 | 23 | 92% | 4.0 | 93 | 1.08 | 4.3
5 | 5.3 | 27 | 92% | 4.9 | 91 | 1.10 | 5.3
6 | 5.6 | 28 | 92% | 5.2 | 89 | 1.13 | 5.9
7 | 6.5 | 31 | 92% | 6.0 | 87 | 1.15 | 6.9
8 | 7.0 | 34 | 92% | 6.5 | 85 | 1.18 | 7.6
9 | 7.7 | 38 | 93% | 7.2 | 83 | 1.20 | 8.7
10 | 8.6 | 38 | 92% | 8.0 | 82 | 1.23 | 9.7
11 | 9.1 | 39 | 92% | 8.4 | 80 | 1.25 | 10.5
12 | 10.2 | 43 | 92% | 9.4 | 78 | 1.29 | 12.1
13 | 11.1 | 42 | 93% | 10.4 | 76 | 1.32 | 13.7
14 | 11.8 | 49 | 93% | 11.0 | 74 | 1.35 | 14.9
15 | 12.5 | 47 | 93% | 11.6 | 72 | 1.39 | 16.1
16 | 13.4 | 49 | 93% | 12.5 | 70 | 1.42 | 17.9
17 | 13.6 | 56 | 93% | 12.7 | 69 | 1.46 | 18.3
18 | 15.1 | 57 | 93% | 14.2 | 67 | 1.50 | 21.1
19 | 15.5 | 56 | 94% | 14.6 | 65 | 1.54 | 22.5
20 | 16.4 | 57 | 92% | 15.2 | 63 | 1.59 | 24.2
21 | 16.9 | 64 | 93% | 15.8 | 61 | 1.64 | 25.9
22 | 17.6 | 64 | 93% | 16.4 | 59 | 1.69 | 27.9
23 | 18.5 | 69 | 93% | 17.4 | 57 | 1.74 | 30.6
24 | 18.9 | 69 | 93% | 17.7 | 56 | 1.79 | 31.6
25 | 20.4 | 73 | 93% | 19.1 | 54 | 1.86 | 35.3
26 | 20.9 | 74 | 93% | 19.5 | 52 | 1.93 | 37.5
27 | 22.1 | 76 | 93% | 20.7 | 50 | 2.00 | 41.4
steel javelin
- Code:
Attack: Human Monk vs. stone giant (4000 rounds) (2015/07/06/13:33:47)
Human Monk: XL 22 Str 20 Int 11 Dex 20
Wielding: +0 blowgun with 30 steel javelins, Skill: Throwing
stone giant: HD 16 AC 12 EV 2
Throwing | AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
0 | 5.3 | 27 | 92% | 4.9 | 100 | 1.00 | 4.9
1 | 6.0 | 31 | 92% | 5.5 | 98 | 1.02 | 5.6
2 | 6.5 | 32 | 92% | 6.1 | 96 | 1.04 | 6.3
3 | 7.2 | 36 | 92% | 6.7 | 94 | 1.06 | 7.1
4 | 8.0 | 34 | 92% | 7.4 | 93 | 1.08 | 8.0
5 | 8.9 | 37 | 92% | 8.2 | 91 | 1.10 | 9.1
6 | 9.1 | 40 | 92% | 8.4 | 89 | 1.13 | 9.5
7 | 10.6 | 44 | 93% | 9.8 | 87 | 1.15 | 11.3
8 | 11.0 | 44 | 92% | 10.2 | 85 | 1.17 | 12.0
9 | 12.0 | 47 | 93% | 11.2 | 83 | 1.20 | 13.5
10 | 12.4 | 50 | 92% | 11.5 | 81 | 1.23 | 14.2
11 | 13.2 | 51 | 92% | 12.2 | 80 | 1.26 | 15.3
12 | 14.0 | 51 | 93% | 13.0 | 78 | 1.29 | 16.7
13 | 14.9 | 54 | 93% | 13.9 | 76 | 1.32 | 18.3
14 | 15.7 | 59 | 93% | 14.7 | 74 | 1.35 | 19.9
15 | 16.6 | 62 | 92% | 15.3 | 72 | 1.39 | 21.2
16 | 16.8 | 61 | 93% | 15.8 | 70 | 1.42 | 22.5
17 | 17.8 | 63 | 93% | 16.6 | 69 | 1.46 | 24.1
18 | 18.8 | 69 | 92% | 17.4 | 67 | 1.50 | 26.0
19 | 19.5 | 69 | 93% | 18.3 | 65 | 1.54 | 28.1
20 | 20.1 | 70 | 92% | 18.7 | 63 | 1.59 | 29.7
21 | 21.0 | 73 | 93% | 19.6 | 61 | 1.64 | 32.1
22 | 22.1 | 72 | 93% | 20.6 | 59 | 1.69 | 34.9
23 | 22.7 | 78 | 93% | 21.2 | 57 | 1.74 | 37.2
24 | 23.2 | 80 | 92% | 21.5 | 56 | 1.80 | 38.5
25 | 24.0 | 80 | 94% | 22.7 | 54 | 1.86 | 42.0
26 | 25.5 | 88 | 93% | 23.9 | 52 | 1.93 | 46.0
27 | 25.9 | 87 | 93% | 24.2 | 50 | 2.00 | 48.4
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 08:34by Jeremiah
AFAIK, plain arrows would be better than arrows of frost vs OOF, since elemental ammo damage is completely resistible and OOF have rC+
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 09:11by Berder
Jeremiah wrote:AFAIK, plain arrows would be better than arrows of frost vs OOF, since elemental ammo damage is completely resistible and OOF have rC+
That was changed. Arrows of frost deal the same plain damage that plain arrows do, plus a little extra cold damage on top of that.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 10:41by bel
I didn't check these numbers thoroughly, but it seems messed up to me that throwing stuff would be stronger than using launchers. I am ignoring large rocks because they are a special case.
I know that there is a tradeoff (throwing is worse at low skill and better at high skill), but it seems absurd to me that something which doesn't take time to equip and doesn't preclude the use of a shield would be so powerful even at high skill.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 12:34by mps
Thanks for the numbers. So throwing is clearly a better choice than crossbows for Trog and Oka dudes. I'll have to pay more attention to javelin drops in the future on other guys.
e: I'm surprised javelin damage holds up so well against xbow, since xbow base damage is considerably higher. The point is that xbows fire much more slowly and somehow the extra damage doesn't help get through the AC of OOFs as much relative to javelins as I thought it would. I agree with bel that it seems broken that throwing damage is so much better than the alternatives, considering the other mechanical advantages throwing has. I guess it's worth noting that some species can't throw javelins, though.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 13:34by byrel
You run into the same problem as unarmed vs weapon users. Barring absurd finds, a hybrid unarmed character will output way more melee damage than any weapon. It just takes a massive investment into skills to get there. The early game is the hardest part of the game, barring a few special levels (V:5, Z:3, previously the hells for some characters (C'Blink might change that)). The fact that unarmed and throwing suck fairly bad until you sink 14+skill points in really does compensate for their higher late-game performance. (Blowguns sharing the throwing skill are a valid argument against this, but that's a bit of an awkward case. Noone wants a separate blowgun skill (that was bad), but it sharing with throwing might make throwing a bit too strong.)
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 13:58by radinms
if you start at Be or Fi, you don't need ranged combat at early game(except fragile race like ogre).
you can use normal weapon and can train throwing for late game.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 15:13by byrel
You could also just raise your melee weapon to 14, and then raise unarmed to 27 for lategame if you're so inclined. It'll give you tremendous power in the late game. But in the end, there's usually better things to spend your XP on the raising a weapon skill to 27 (for non troglodytes at least). Ranged weapons are somewhat more flexible, so it's a bit more worth to max them for late game. But when that's competing with getting haste castable in plate... It's a hard sell.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 15:26by radinms
byrel wrote: Ranged weapons are somewhat more flexible, so it's a bit more worth to max them for late game. But when that's competing with getting haste castable in plate... It's a hard sell.
this is throwing maxed out centaur that weared plate armour and cast haste
http://lazy-life.ddo.jp:8080/morgue/rad ... 011708.txt
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Monday, 6th July 2015, 16:29by byrel
I was discussing a 3-rune game; you can do whatever you want in a 15-runer, as there's way too much XP.
Edit: You're also wearing +9 int and wizardry. Most characters don't find loot that allows them to do that (unless they get lucky in a 15-rune, or they Zig.) It's not a very representative example.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Tuesday, 7th July 2015, 13:22by MainiacJoe
mps wrote:e: I'm surprised javelin damage holds up so well against xbow, since xbow base damage is considerably higher. The point is that xbows fire much more slowly and somehow the extra damage doesn't help get through the AC of OOFs as much relative to javelins as I thought it would.
This is why I'd like to repeat my question from far above of whether armour EVP is added as extra delay to throwing (and/or UC). If it still is, this might balance throwing against crossbows, because perhaps then you need to invest XP in both Throwing and Armour skills vs. Crossbows skill only to get parity in damage /aut.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Wednesday, 8th July 2015, 08:31by svendre
I think the real sell for crossbows is that it's possible to find a penetration branded artifact weapon. Without doing the math, I think it can be fairly safely said that one of these will outperform throwing overall, granted it would take luck to find - but less so if you are worshipping Oka which would be fairly normal for a hunter.
The next point, which applies to large rocks at least is that they can fail at long range whereas the launcher can always hit a target at maximum distance.
Finally, there is velocity + a branded ammo. If you consider the branding to add just some damage on top, that isn't taking into account that you can shoot whatever brand you have at specific targets with weaknesses to various brands, thus further increasing the launcher based weapon damage (ie: shoot an arrow of flame at an ice beast, etc.)
The counterpoints:
The biggest draw for throwing for me is that it allows you to use a shield and you never need to spend time swapping between a launcher and a melee weapon, rod, staff or whatever else you want to keep handy. It seems to me that the large rocks should require two hands to throw, but they don't even require one free hand. It's like thrown weapons just shoot out of your eyeballs, or something
In fact, you can enjoy wielding the first screwball artifact -8 club {rF++, rC++, rPois, Str+4} with it's skill trained to 0 and a large shield and whoopie.
Portal projectile can mitigate the range issue of large rocks, and more accurate smite targeting can a good thing to have anyways.
-- that all being said, I still find ranged weapons annoying late game... when you can just thump something with an eveningstar or firestorm it and be done with the issue quicker with less run-around and whiff.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Wednesday, 8th July 2015, 11:29by radinms
I still find ranged weapons annoying late game... when you can just thump something with an eveningstar or firestorm it and be done with the issue quicker with less run-around and whiff.
I still find conjuration like firestorm annoying late game...if you spend the xp on throwing, you can easily kill pack of hell sentinels
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Wednesday, 8th July 2015, 13:26by mps
re: launchers vs. throwing, 1- vs. 2-handedness, etc... In reality, you just shouldn't have to switch weapons to fire missiles from a launcher -- this is ridiculously bad/clunky. Launchers should just have an equipment slot. The damage numbers in this thread establish that there would not be a balance problem with that, except with Ash, which as I've mentioned many times elsewhere is an unspeakably badly designed god.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Wednesday, 8th July 2015, 15:07by byrel
I fail to understand how a launcher slot would be badly balanced with Ash. If you curse your launcher, you get launcher skill boost. Cursing your main weapon gives you a throwing skill boost.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Wednesday, 8th July 2015, 15:17by mps
I don't think it would be badly balanced. I just think it would be differently balanced and people who think Ash is a beautiful instance of game design but are nevertheless influential in crawl development might be finicky about it.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Wednesday, 8th July 2015, 15:21by byrel
As someone who enjoys Ash (but wants just a little bit more reliability in the curse minigame) I can't really see the problem with adding a launcher slot. Yes, it takes away one of ash's disadvantages, but as these numbers demonstrate it wasn't that big of a downside in practice (with the exception of blowgun-needles; I'd buy it if they said a blowgun wasn't a launcher, as that does pose some balance issues. They're a lot more similar to rods than other launchers in playstyle and strategy.)
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Wednesday, 8th July 2015, 16:19by tasonir
bel wrote:I didn't check these numbers thoroughly, but it seems messed up to me that throwing stuff would be stronger than using launchers. I am ignoring large rocks because they are a special case.
I know that there is a tradeoff (throwing is worse at low skill and better at high skill), but it seems absurd to me that something which doesn't take time to equip and doesn't preclude the use of a shield would be so powerful even at high skill.
Congratulations, you've discovered that unarmed is the best weapon! Ok, sure, javelins are basically claws 3 (3.5 to be precise) but still, unarmed gets very strong at high levels too...
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Wednesday, 8th July 2015, 16:26by tasonir
MainiacJoe wrote:mps wrote:e: I'm surprised javelin damage holds up so well against xbow, since xbow base damage is considerably higher. The point is that xbows fire much more slowly and somehow the extra damage doesn't help get through the AC of OOFs as much relative to javelins as I thought it would.
This is why I'd like to repeat my question from far above of whether armour EVP is added as extra delay to throwing (and/or UC). If it still is, this might balance throwing against crossbows, because perhaps then you need to invest XP in both Throwing and Armour skills vs. Crossbows skill only to get parity in damage /aut.
This added delay was removed. Even before it was removed, it wasn't that big of a deal - you could get rid of it fairly easily for most armors. Wearing plate on D:1 would certainly impact you, but you could wear scale mail on d:1 with no penalty, and eventually when you trained some armor skill, the plate had no penalty either. In somewhat more extreme cases, I had
CPA naga monks with no penalty due to having 35 str and ~22 armor skill. Basically the penalty could always be removed, it just slowed you down if you went to heavy armor early on. It was mostly a penalty to unspoiled players who didn't know how to manage the formula.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Wednesday, 8th July 2015, 19:20by Lasty
Jeremiah wrote:elemental ammo damage is completely resistible
This is no longer true. Elemental brands on ranged weapons now work the same as on melee weapons, aside from the way launcher and ammo brands can interact.
More generally, yes, throwing is completely nuts right now. It'll get rebalanced when time allows.
Re: ranged damage comparison - for late game -
Posted:
Friday, 10th July 2015, 14:25by WingedEspeon
mps wrote:How does the comparison for large rock vs. arbalest w/ silver bolt at skill 18 look vs. OOF? (I agree triple xbow is bad in terms of xp efficiency, but the damage isn't imo.)
Acidently hit thank. Silver vs a mutator will average (almost) the same damage of HW vs holy vunerable. I wonder how these calculations change at 27 fighting, which you can get rather easily twords the end of extended depending on your species.