Thrown weapon mechanics

[WingedEspeon]

How does the damage formula for thrown weapons differ from melee with a weapon or ranged with bows/xbows? How viable is it to use throwing as your primary damage output?

[njvack]

I don't know the formula, but it's entirely viable to go throwing instead of other ranged options, as long as you're big enough to huck javelins. Large rocks are even better. I'd probably always back it up with good melee, just because otherwise you'll run out of ammo.

[Sandman25]

Throwing is very similar to UC: 10 aut at skill level 0, 5 aut as skill level 27. Winning with pure thrower is impossible/viable/easy depending on species.

[tasonir]

Throwing is very similar to UC: 10 aut at skill level 0, 5 aut as skill level 27. Winning with pure thrower is impossible/viable/easy depending on species.

To go one step further, it's also the same in that damage is base + skill level, where unarmed has a base of 3 damage (plus claws * 2). For throwing I think javelins are 8 or 10, large rocks are 20, stones are 0 or 2...I believe they list the damage in game if you examine them, I just haven't checked in ages.

You can go more or less pure throwing and not run out of ammo if you pick an ammo god, probably trog (does okawaru give ammo?), on probably an ogre.

[Sprucery]

(does okawaru give ammo?)

Yes, Okawaru is fine for a ranged combatant.

[WingedEspeon]

To go one step further, it's also the same in that damage is base + skill level, where unarmed has a base of 3 damage (plus claws * 2). For throwing I think javelins are 8 or 10, large rocks are 20, stones are 0 or 2...I believe they list the damage in game if you examine them, I just haven't checked in ages.

The ammo list the base damage and stones are 2, I checked. So with 27 throwing, stones work as base damage 29 unbranded unechanted weapons? Does throwing skill apply to thrown pizza?

[Jeremiah]

I think there is some kind of stepdown for stones only.

[dowan]

Does throwing skill apply to thrown pizza?

Sadly, no. Only non-awkwardly thrown items. So I am pretty sure that also means large rocks don't use throwing skill if you're not a troll or ogre, even though you can throw them (only 1 tile though)

[Siegurt]

To go one step further, it's also the same in that damage is base + skill level, where unarmed has a base of 3 damage (plus claws * 2). For throwing I think javelins are 8 or 10, large rocks are 20, stones are 0 or 2...I believe they list the damage in game if you examine them, I just haven't checked in ages.

The ammo list the base damage and stones are 2, I checked. So with 27 throwing, stones work as base damage 29 unbranded unechanted weapons? Does throwing skill apply to thrown pizza?

Stones only get half bonus from throwing skill (so at 27 skill it's base damage is 15) Pizza (And other non-throwing weapons) get no bonus from the throwing skill

[njvack]

Does this mean that awkwardly throwing a large rock is actually a good attack against adjacent early-game enemies?

[WingedEspeon]

Does this mean that awkwardly throwing a large rock is actually a good attack against adjacent early-game enemies?

probably.

Also after getting an near pure throwing DEBe partway thought vaults (character in progress, I haven't died) I think an ogre going near pure/ pure throwing may be more viable than an ogre with a giant spiked club.

[Sandman25]

Just tested in wizmode. Large rocks deal 0 damage without slaying for MiBe.

[radinms]

"Throw Tomahawks" is top-tier magic.

[WingedEspeon]

"Throw Tomahawks" is top-tier magic.

But not as good as the level 9 spell "Throw Javelins"

On a more serious note, 3 more questions:

a. How does Shadow mimic work with thrown weapons?

b. If even +2 UC is too strong to let into the game, why are there species with +3! Throwing?

c. How do I do fSim with throwing?

[radinms]

"Throw Large Rocks" is a Lv19 spell huh.

[Sandman25]

On a more serious note, 3 more questions:

a. How does Shadow mimic work with thrown weapons?

b. If even +2 UC is too strong to let into the game, why are there species with +3! Throwing?

c. How do I do fSim with throwing?

1.

  Code:

You throw a large rock {=f}.
The large rock {=f} hits the stone giant!!(damage 35)
The stone giant is severely wounded.
Your shadow throws a large rock.
The large rock hits the stone giant!!!(damage 66)
You kill the stone giant!

2. Because there are easy species, average species and hard species.

3. Use launcher.

[Rast]

b. If even +2 UC is too strong to let into the game, why are there species with +3! Throwing?

Those species don't get to throw good missiles.

[and into]

I am pretty sure the fact that there isn't a species with +2 UC apt has nothing to do with balance concerns. +2 UC apt would not be overpowered, and in fact a species with +2 UC and no claws would be much worse for UC than either ghouls or trolls.

Basically, as I see it, the species that like UC have been given claws instead of +2 or +3 aptitudes, and that makes sense, given that claws are more helpful than good apts, particularly in the early game, where UC really needs the support.

[Lasty]

A problem with very high UC is that the race effectively does not have a weapon choice -- the choice is "use UC or use nothing". Throwing at least requires you to obtain something to throw, making it less certain. That said, part of the reason may also be that throwing was rebalanced to be significantly better at a certain point and throwing aptitudes were not changed at that time.

[dowan]

A problem with very high UC is that the race effectively does not have a weapon choice -- the choice is "use UC or use nothing". Throwing at least requires you to obtain something to throw, making it less certain. That said, part of the reason may also be that throwing was rebalanced to be significantly better at a certain point and throwing aptitudes were not changed at that time.

Well... the problem with that argument is that there are species with high weapon apts. Why is the logic suddenly different when it's UC?

Not that I'm saying there needs to be a high UC apt race, just that I don't get this particular argument against it.

[jejorda2]

If you find a quickblade of electrocution/pain, or a triple sword of speed/holy/flaming before you find a trident on a MfSk, you might decide to pick up the weapon because there might not be a bardiche in the whole game. (Or because those are great weapons.)

If you have +2 UC, you know you have a high base damage weapon for the endgame.