AK: Which Weapon to Distort

[Sandman25]

I would never distort a quick blade myself, since for one finding a quick blade is unlikely to happen before ****** and you should always make the distortion weapon when you have the piety to do so without delay, barring complete garbage weapon drops. (As I said upthread, though, I can see the argument for distortion on a fast polearm, because the reaching helps with blink travel time and works well with spectral weapon if you have it.) However, I've specced a few people who have used distortion quick blades (not as Lugonu followers) against zot monsters. What I can say from direct observation is that it's considerably weaker than a battleaxe, the damage is bad, and the blinking and teleportation is dangerous because you're not actually killing things, you're just hoping for banishment.

What? A weapon with 20 skill levels is more powerful than a weapon with 8 skill levels? Devs should fix the bug, please report it. Seriously, you should stop arguing about things which you have not used in your games. You are probably playing OP characters, that's why you don't see value in distortion. When you are fighting 200% HP OoF as short/long blades Sp, distortion is clearly superior to everything you can use. It is an extreme example of course but it should make it obvious how distortion can be extremely good. Also you should not care about blinking that much, it is optimal to have some powerful way to kill things at distance.

[Hurkyl]

Maybe I should take a completely different tack. I have a +9 vorpal great mace. Should I put distortion on it? Why?

For reference, here are the fsim numbers, for hill and stone giant:

+9 great mace of distortion: 28.9 and 24.5
+9 great mace of crushing: 27.7 and 22.9

Alternatively, I have a +9 vorpal great mace and a +9 great mace of distortion. Should I ever use the distortion one? When? Why?

[mps]

Distortion damage does not check AC and there's banishment, so I would prefer distortion to crushing on a Lugonu character. (I would not apply distortion to a weapon that's already +9, though. If I had a +9 vorpal great mace, I would keep it as an alternate, probably rebrand it, but I'm sure that's not really what you're asking.)

@sandman25, I do appreciate distortion. I'm not interested in weird counterfactuals where OOFs have double hp or w/e. In actual crawl, banishing OOFs with distortion is essentially never your best option for an Sp. Just use shadow creatures or sth.

e: re: why use distortion vs. other brands, sometimes you don't want to banish things or teleport them. E.g. in lair, where you want the xp and you don't need help killing the monsters. Or when the monster would become more dangerous at range. On Lugonu dudes, I usually use a distortion branded weapon and another decent weapon as an alt when I don't want any weirdness happening. Sometimes the alt is an xbow, in which case I use distortion for melee exclusively and shoot at things that blink or teleport.

[Sandman25]

@sandman25, I do appreciate distortion. I'm not interested in weird counterfactuals where OOFs have double hp or w/e. In actual crawl, banishing OOFs with distortion is essentially never your best option for an Sp. Just use shadow creatures or sth.

This is why I suggested you to try distortion in practice. I used distortion in normal games too, banishing OoF is really great, especially for Sp. I don't like Shadow Creatures in Zot 5 by the way.

[mps]

You like short blade distortion banishment on OOFs... but you don't like Shadow Creatures on Zot 5... ? I think you should try shadow creatures on zot 5 with new box of beasts.

[Hurkyl]

Distortion damage does not check AC

Damage is damage.

I would prefer distortion to crushing on a Lugonu character.

So you just got through telling me all the horrors of blinking and teleporting ruining your damage. Why does that suddenly not matter anymore?

[Sandman25]

You like short blade distortion banishment on OOFs... but you don't like Shadow Creatures on Zot 5... ? I think you should try shadow creatures on zot 5 with new box of beasts.

I don't like to be berserked or to fight berserking Orb Guardians etc. I have never used new box of beasts and this is why I am saying nothing about it.

[mps]

Distortion damage does not check AC

Damage is damage.

I would prefer distortion to crushing on a Lugonu character.

So you just got through telling me all the horrors of blinking and teleporting ruining your damage. Why does that suddenly not matter anymore?

I've explained this thoroughly and carefully enough to my satisfaction.

@sandman25: When was the last time you got berserked by a summoned moth of wrath? I have not seen this happen in trunk. Berserked orb guardians are annoying, but on the other hand, berserked shadow creature dragons and box of beasts creatures are p good.

[Hurkyl]

I've explained this thoroughly and carefully enough to my satisfaction.

If you say so. Looks pretty much just like the things I've been saying that were apparently totally wrong (e.g. if you think you can't afford to blink something, you shouldn't be using a distortion weapon), except that you're missing an account of why doing drastically less dps isn't crippling.

[Sandman25]

@sandman25: When was the last time you got berserked by a summoned moth of wrath? I have not seen this happen in trunk. Berserked orb guardians are annoying, but on the other hand, berserked shadow creature dragons and box of beasts creatures are p good.

I don't remember, as a good player I am learning from my mistakes so I stopped using Shadow Creatures in Zot 5 long time ago.
I don't care about increasing my killing power if it increases my chance to die with some bad luck. I am a patient player who does not mind to use luring on Zot 5 as much as on D:1.

[mps]

I've explained this thoroughly and carefully enough to my satisfaction.

If you say so. Looks pretty much just like the things I've been saying that were apparently totally wrong (e.g. if you think you can't afford to blink something, you shouldn't be using a distortion weapon), except that you're missing an account of why doing drastically less dps isn't crippling.

God...

Let's try this one more time.

Distortion dps with heavy weapon: Good.

Distortion dps with quick blade: Bad.

[Hurkyl]

I've explained this thoroughly and carefully enough to my satisfaction.

If you say so. Looks pretty much just like the things I've been saying that were apparently totally wrong (e.g. if you think you can't afford to blink something, you shouldn't be using a distortion weapon), except that you're missing an account of why doing drastically less dps isn't crippling.

God...

Let's try this one more time.

Distortion dps with heavy weapon: Good.

Distortion dps with quick blade: Bad.

Which doesn't matter because, by the way you're measuring it:

Dps with heavy weapon that is not distortion: Excellent.

(and only matters when it is actually a relevant measure)

[radinms]

the point of distortion is banishment and teleport. not dmg.


of course dmg is awesome, but it is not essencial.


distortion quick blade: obvioulsy *awesome*
distortion great mace: obviously *annoying*
distortion battleaxe: ok if you don't want to be surrounded but unintentionally surrounded