The Tavern

Hi.
When to raise Str or dex?
I assume that dextery is to all evasion based characters (INCLUDING CHARACTERS USING AXES AND/OR ANY WEAPON "BETTER FOR THE STRONG"), right?
Strenght is to all AC/non-evasive characters like Trolls/Ogrescharacter who uses "heavy" armor, right?

If you're casting spells ever at all, Int (unless you have below 8 in Str/Dex, or need to raise Str a bit for casting in heavy armour). Otherwise yeah, Dex for EV characters and Str for AC ones, and as you said, the weapon Str/Dex weighting doesn't really matter as it's currently implemented, and you can safely ignore it.

As it was explained to me in the chatroom the first time I asked:

Strength doesn't matter unless you have trouble carrying things.
Dex doesn't matter unless it's at about 40 and you're a spriggan/halfling.
Int does everything relating to spellcasting, so if you ever cast spells, focus almost entirely on int.

Hmmm.. This is bad.
Something about the stats will change in 0.8? Seems it need to be changed...

Yeah the stats are kinda meh. In my opinion, dex should do more for evasion than it does, and strength should do more for damage than it does. At least that way you'd have the trifecta; as it stands, you've got magicians that focus on int, hybrids that focus on int, stabbers that focus on int and dex, and you get almost nothing for specializing in damage. I think the last figure I saw was maybe 1% more damage per strength point? Compared to the fact that just a few more int and you can go from fair to very good on a decent spell.

(Stabbers should focus on just int too).

I personally feel that str should play more of a role in reducing penalties for wearing heavier armors/shields. It seems as it currently stands hybrids just focus on int. Skill should only be able to reduce penalties to a point, without a minimum str requirement certain armors/shields just shouldn't be viable to any character caster or not. You could also make AC a bit more powerful again, but have str play a bigger role (therefore sacrificing some int/dex)

chrysalis wrote:I personally feel that str should play more of a role in reducing penalties for wearing heavier armors/shields. It seems as it currently stands hybrids just focus on int. Skill should only be able to reduce penalties to a point, without a minimum str requirement certain armors/shields just shouldn't be viable to any character caster or not. You could also make AC a bit more powerful again, but have str play a bigger role (therefore sacrificing some int/dex)

Strength play an important role in not getting a worst penalty when wearing heavy armour (you need str>3*EVP). The latest idea we had is to increase the focus on the armour skill, not on the str. You won't be able to overcome the armour penalty just with int and magical skills. You'll need armour skill. I think the strength requirement for armour are enough. I'd rather boost its role on damage.

galehar wrote:
chrysalis wrote: I'd rather boost its role on damage.

I think that would be nice. Especially for STR-weighted weapons and Unarmed.

galehar wrote:
chrysalis wrote:I personally feel that str should play more of a role in reducing penalties for wearing heavier armors/shields. It seems as it currently stands hybrids just focus on int. Skill should only be able to reduce penalties to a point, without a minimum str requirement certain armors/shields just shouldn't be viable to any character caster or not. You could also make AC a bit more powerful again, but have str play a bigger role (therefore sacrificing some int/dex)

Strength play an important role in not getting a worst penalty when wearing heavy armour (you need str>3*EVP). The latest idea we had is to increase the focus on the armour skill, not on the str. You won't be able to overcome the armour penalty just with int and magical skills. You'll need armour skill. I think the strength requirement for armour are enough. I'd rather boost its role on damage.

That's another thing that's kinda broken, heavy armor. The penalties make it just not very useful.

szanth wrote:That's another thing that's kinda broken, heavy armor. The penalties make it just not very useful.

This comment is just stupid. First, it is completely wrong, but I won't go into the details, at it is off-topic. If you want to talk about armour penalties, do so in the game design forum. But try to do it in an intelligent and constructive way. Second, saying that it is "another thing that's kinda broken" is offensive to all the people contributing their free time to create this game.

galehar wrote:
szanth wrote:That's another thing that's kinda broken, heavy armor. The penalties make it just not very useful.

This comment is just stupid. First, it is completely wrong, but I won't go into the details, at it is off-topic. If you want to talk about armour penalties, do so in the game design forum. But try to do it in an intelligent and constructive way. Second, saying that it is "another thing that's kinda broken" is offensive to all the people contributing their free time to create this game.

We're talking about stats, and inevitably that leads to what stats do in relation to armor. He mentioned armor, and I responded.

It's not -wrong-. When using anything other than light armor is considered 'hard mode', it means it's not working properly. I'm sorry your feelings got hurt when I told you what I thought and what's been said a million times in the IRC room.

szanth stop living in 0.7land; 0.8land is where it's at. Heavy armour is currently quite good.

For starless, strength contributes significantly to unarmed damage, but only while in forms that use it: dragon form (form base damage: 20+str), statue form (12+str), and blade hands (12+str/4+dex/4).

this is quite irrelevant, but STR also contributes to the damage of the player ghost you leave behind when you die; it gets bonus damage of 0.25 x STR

szanth wrote:
That's another thing that's kinda broken, heavy armor. The penalties make it just not very useful.

oh and i was aware that "broken" in game-discussing terms means ridiculously powerful? not ridiculously weak/useless

MrMisterMonkey wrote:szanth stop living in 0.7land; 0.8land is where it's at. Heavy armour is currently quite good.

For starless, strength contributes significantly to unarmed damage, but only while in forms that use it: dragon form (form base damage: 20+str), statue form (12+str), and blade hands (12+str/4+dex/4).

-_- This may be true, but .8's not even done yet. S'because of that that I haven't gone out and re-researched everything that sucked in .7, since I'm still waiting on the final version.

My opinion has always been that Strength and Dex should have a very high impact on Unarmed Combat damage, while UC skill should have a high impact on attack speed/to-hit. IIRC, as of now UC damage is effected only by UC skill. THis really makes no sense to me since the punch of a Spriggan with 10 strength should not be doing as much base damage as the punch of an ogre at 30 strength.

I'm really surprised to be reading some of this stuff. I just assumed Str would massively increase damage for any melee attack, at least for big weapons.

Glad to know though that Int offers the biggest bang for the buck for any spellcasting class.

Yeah imagine my disappointment. I had to be told like fifty times by a bunch of different people that, no, seriously, strength doesn't really help with damage at all, and dex only barely helps with dodging, and only when you have a huge dodging skill.

I guess that's why I mostly play spellcasters now.

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