MR goal

[Sandman25]

Is it intentional that normal MR species can be so easily paralyzed/banished/marked?

My MfGl found 2 potions of exp and is wearing a ring of protection from magic, XL 22 is quite high for Vaults and still I have the following chances:
27% - marked by Vault Sentinel
12% - paralyzed by Sphynx
10% - banished by Deep Elf Sorcerer
8% - banished by Deep Elf Demonologist
8% - paralyzed by Great Orb of Eyes
6% - banished by Ogre Magi/Wizard/
6% - paralyzed by Vampire Knight
4% - paralyzed by Orc Sorcerer

Those are not uniques, it's basically almost impossible to avoid them and I cleared all "safe" branches, only Vaults/Depths/Elf is an option and they are full of those monsters.

[PleasingFungus]

Looks fine to me. These monsters are intended to be threats, and a ring of mr isn't intended to be a ring of magic immunity. You'll probably want to use special weapons and tactics to deal with these dangerous enemies, which seems good to me.

[Sandman25]

Looks fine to me. These monsters are intended to be threats, and a ring of mr isn't intended to be a ring of magic immunity. You'll probably want to use special weapons and tactics to deal with these dangerous enemies, which seems good to me.

Thank you. I have just found another ring of MR in Depths and at least I can no longer be banished at XL 23. 2 rings of MR become ring of immunity to banishment. Though it means I cannot have rF+/rC+, looks like interesting choice indeed.

[onget]

I think the monster of MR-based attack (paralyse, banishment) is too powerful.

In most cases, that you will be paralyzed / banished is worse than a bolt of fire / fireball without rF.

One of paralyse / banishment will cause death, but it does not have to die by a single bolt of fire / fireball.

If you do not have the additional MR, you will be paralyzed / banished in 30-50%.

Bolt of fire / fireball without rF of most of the monsters will give you a damage of 30-40.

Paralyse / banished is immediately lethal situation.

bolt of fire / fireball without rF is a painful, but not fatal situation immediately.

It is not enough additional MR+ is for most of paralyse / banishment monster.
They will immediately fatal situation you in the still high probability.

For most of the fire attack monsters with the exception of OoF and panlord rF+ it is sufficient.

Paralyse / banishment monsters emerged from an early game, it is very common in the vault / elf / depth.

rF+ in not enough fire attack monsters (OoF / panlord) will only appear in the zot / pan / orbrun.

[Sandman25]

Without MR ring, XL 22 Mf.

62% - marked by Vault Sentinel
39% - paralyzed by Sphinx
36% - banished by Deep Elf Sorcerer
32% - banished by Deep Elf Demonologist
32% - paralyzed by Great Orb of Eyes
28% - banished by Ogre Magi/Wizard/
29% - paralyzed by Vampire Knight
25% - paralyzed by Orc Sorcerer

And yes, I had a Ko without any MR, that was really awful.

Edit. viewtopic.php?f=12&t=8078&p=109609#p109298

  Code:

30785 | D:14     | Paralysed by Rupert for 7 turns
36714 | Vaults:1 | Paralysed by a sphinx for 7 turns
38699 | Vaults:2 | Paralysed by a great orb of eyes for 7 turns

[and into]

I think it is absolutely good that LOF remains important in at least some situations, for some enemies, even if you have very high AC, EV, and/or HP.

There are other design problems with banishment and paralysis. Some have been addressed with the latter (chain paralysis is no longer possible, though I can't recall how long of an immunity you get, and perhaps it could be longer), but the former still has the major issue that you can and often will be sent to the abyss long after it has ceased to be a meaningful threat to your character.

But the fundamental idea is that hostile enchantments can put you in dangerous positions even on a high-level minotaur with 30 AC and 20 EV and 200+ HP, and this is definitely a good feature in the game. The question is, exactly which types of hostile enchantments are appropriate, and where, and I don't think there's an easy answer to that. (Obviously it isn't good to have too many separate effects causing feature bloat, either.)

[Sprucery]

Yeah, it would be kind of pointless if monsters had those kinds of special attacks and everyone was immune to them by the time they encountered said monsters. The fact that you have to decide whether to wear a MR+ ring (or armour) instead of something else makes the game more interesting.

[onget]

MR in the vault/depth is the most top priority resistance.(except Fo)

[nago]

Only to me mark success seems excessively high in comparison of other hex, especially considering its from a monster usually fought earlier of most of the other listed?

I knew from experience that it is extremely punishing - but that also forces the player to boring and degenerate tactics, like killing each sentinel outside Los or luring to a staircase to let mark expire upstairs - at least with char unable to kill them in a turn or disable somehow

[duvessa]

Only to me mark success seems excessively high in comparison of other hex

That's because it is. They all get different power modifiers and stuff.

  Code:

/**
 * What value do monsters multiply their hd with to get spellpower, for the
 * given spell?
 *
 * XXX: everything except SPELL_CONFUSION_GAZE could be trivially exported to
 * data.
 *
 * @param spell     The spell in question.
 * @param random    Whether to randomize powers for weird spells.
 *                  If false, the average value is used.
 * @return          A multiplier to HD for spellpower.
 *                  Value may exceed 200.
 */
static int _mons_power_hd_factor(spell_type spell, bool random)
{
    switch (spell)
    {
        case SPELL_CONFUSION_GAZE:
            if (random)
                return 5 * (2 + random2(3)) * ENCH_POW_FACTOR;
            return 5 * (2 + 1) * ENCH_POW_FACTOR;

        case SPELL_CAUSE_FEAR:
            return 18 * ENCH_POW_FACTOR;

        case SPELL_SENTINEL_MARK:
            return 16 * ENCH_POW_FACTOR;

        case SPELL_IGNITE_POISON_SINGLE:
            return 12 * ENCH_POW_FACTOR;

        case SPELL_SAP_MAGIC:
        case SPELL_MESMERISE:
            return 10 * ENCH_POW_FACTOR;

        case SPELL_MASS_CONFUSION:
            return 8 * ENCH_POW_FACTOR;

        case SPELL_SLEEP:
        case SPELL_AGONY:
        case SPELL_STRIP_RESISTANCE:
        case SPELL_VIRULENCE:
        case SPELL_DRAIN_MAGIC:
        case SPELL_DIMENSION_ANCHOR:
            return 6 * ENCH_POW_FACTOR;
        case SPELL_ABJURATION:
            return 20;

        case SPELL_OLGREBS_TOXIC_RADIANCE:
        case SPELL_FULMINANT_PRISM:
            return 8;

        case SPELL_LRD:
        case SPELL_MONSTROUS_MENAGERIE:
        case SPELL_BATTLESPHERE:
        case SPELL_SPECTRAL_WEAPON:
        case SPELL_IGNITE_POISON:
        case SPELL_IOOD:
        case SPELL_CONJURE_FLAME:
        case SPELL_SINGULARITY:
            return 6;

        case SPELL_OZOCUBUS_REFRIGERATION:
        case SPELL_SUMMON_DRAGON:
        case SPELL_SUMMON_HYDRA:
            return 5;

        case SPELL_CHAIN_LIGHTNING:
        case SPELL_CHAIN_OF_CHAOS:
            return 4;

        case SPELL_DRAIN_LIFE:
            return 1;

        default:
            return 12;
    }
}

Notice how sentinel's mark is one of the highest things on here (also cause fear which is funny because it's the most bafflingly pointless monster spell ever)
It happens for player hexes too! Did you know that Mass Confusion and Slow have different power calculations from other hexes?

[and into]

Knew about mass confusion, but not about slow. Huh.

[Sandman25]

Fo is afraid of Vaults the most IMHO, it cannot teleport when marked and cannot dig a killhole there.

I would happily use a racial ability to get both Frail 1 and MR 1 especially on EV-based species like Ko, too bad we can do nothing when MR item doesn't spawn in game.

[tasonir]

My general guideline is I want two sources of MR for a 3 or 4 MR per level race, one MR for a 5 MR per level race (nagas, VS and mummies), and probably don't need any for a 6 or 7 MR race (deep dwarves, felid, draconians, spriggans). Early on a 6/7 MR race I'll still wear one MR if it's convenient, until I level up a bit more. Anything not those 7 races, double MR all the way. Once you're already 27 on a 4 MR race, you could go down to 1 MR, but eh, I usually don't bother. Hopefully the MR per level wiki page isn't too terribly out of date: if these numbers have changed, I am not responsible for your dead characters

[Lasty]

This is turning into an advice thread, so I'm going to move it to that forum.

For what it's worth, I've become much less paranoid about MR over the last few months, generally doing Vaults, Depths, and Zot with MR at + or ++. It's definitely safer to have more, of course, but having less just means playing significantly more defensively against creatures that can hex you. I get marked relatively often, but generally wait it out up a set of stairs if my character isn't strong enough to kill off all the stuff that's awake.

[Magipi]

The funniest thing is that sentinel's mark is relatively recent stuff, and Sap magic is even more recent. And whoever it was who coded these, he (she? they?) decided to complicate the already overcomplicated code instead of simplifying it. Very weird.

[MainiacJoe]

May I ask where you are getting those percentages of the success of monster attacks? I don't know how to get that sort of feedback during a game and would grateful to learn.

[jejorda2]

x, highlight the enemy, v, choose the spell from the list.