Doing extended without necromutation

[nordetsa]

I recall someone saying necromutation isn't really necessary for mages doing extended as the spell is really expensive (level 8 spell with TWO schools). And there are now quite a number of monsters with dispel undead now.

But then how would non-lich caster would fare in the extended? Just cast regeneration a lot? Doing Hell/Pan as a caster might be hard with all the monsters keep popping every few turns.

[Greyr]

In my experience Necromut is not needed to compete extended. Maybe its just me, but I think that spell is a bit overrated.

[celem]

I have never cast (or even memorised) necromutation.

Things you want instead: rN++/+++, Haste, Regeneration. I'd probably be looking for cBlink too. But torment isnt so scary that you are forced to learn a lvl8 spell to weather it. Hell effect spawns can be tricky sure, but they always are, I tend to avoid/dive regardless of the character.

edit: fwiw, i never have deity protection either. just gear up and go for it.

[partial]

TSO helps alot

[KoboldLord]

Hell and Pan really aren't too bad Torment-wise. Normally you're only going to see monsters that can cast it one or two at a time, and you can just kill them first. If you see more of them at once, you're probably looking at a vault of some sort, and in that case you can just avoid it or lure them off one-by-one. Torment isn't actually what kills you; it's all the other damage that happens that does the job, so if you can make sure you're not dealing with both at the same time you should be fine. A good reusable ranged attack is a good idea, and also you should make good use of corners to break line-of-sight.

Tomb is somewhat more troublesome, but there are a proliferation of stairwells to dance on so you can keep it to a minimum. Sometimes you might need to burn consumables to get out of a fight if you've danced a bunch of stuff to a new level but you've taken too much damage to be safe killing it. Those monsters will still be separated from the ones downstairs when you get back.

Necromutation is a particularly painful spell to train because there are no early- or mid-game builds that naturally make heavy use of both necromancy and transmutation. Once you finally get there, losing access to potions is a pretty severe drawback that is frequently going to be worse than just taking some damage.

[Sandman25]

My rules for Necromutation:
1) If you can learn Necromutation, do it. Training Armour/Dodging/Fighting from 20 to 27 will make you less powerful than Necromutation will and for characters with high Int the latter is often cheaper.
2) If you are Formicid, get Necromutation.
3) If you are with Cheibrodos, get Necromutation.
4) If you are going to ignore ranged attacks for some reason, get Necromutation.
5) If you are going to ignore all weapons for challenge conduct, get Necromutation (I've never tried the conduct in extended but this is what I would do).

My rules for games where I decided I don't want Necromutation:
1) Get Haste spell to grey, Even if you have wand/potion, the limited supply will prevent you from using it in some situations and it can be a fatal mistake. With many characters I cast Haste before entering a new Pan level, it can save life.
2) Get CBlink spell to 1%
3) Train Stealth all the way to 27
4) Don't get too attached to mutations from potions of beneficial mutation, you can eventually want to clear all your mutations due to Cacodemons/Neqoxecs and contamination from Haste.
5) Teleport early, with full HP and MP often. The weaker you are, the less dangerous should be that typical bad situation where you already want to teleport away.
6) Get Regeneration if you can. Fortunately it can be on gear also.
7) Get at least rN+. You don't want to lose 50% HP to Agony.

[bel]

Necromutation is really really expensive unfortunately. Apart from torment protection, it also helps with channeling.

But if you have hybridized decently, so that you don't use MP for all the monsters all the time, the benefits are usually not worth the XP getting it online. Haste/fog/invis are usually enough to handle most monsters that torment. I used to get it on all my blasters, but now I ... don't.

[Sandman25]

I have just tested in wiz mode.
DE, Fighting 20 (19728 skill points, Dodging 20 (9864), 179 HP (at XL 27).
Fighting 27 (42072), Dodging 27 (21036), 199 HP. So DE spent 33516 skill points to get 20 HP and several points in EV (with Dodging 27 DE has EV 35 with Dex 20 and robe, with Dodging 20 the same DE has EV 31).
Necromancy 20 (9864), Transmutations 20 (11730). With Int 35 and robe Necromutation is yellow at 4%. So DE spent 21594 skill points to be immune to Torment and to get Revivification.
33516 is 55% more than 21594.
Keeping in mind that it was optimal to get Revivification for cheap 9864 skill points, we got immunity to Torment for just 11730 skill points. Getting Necromutation is optimal for DE with Int 35.

[Sar]

Necromut blocks Borg and DDoor though

[Sandman25]

Necromut blocks Borg and DDoor though

Right, getting Necromutation is optimal for DE, this is not the same as having it always on. For example, quaffing potions and being ready to cast Death's Door/Revivification vs Lom Lobon is better than extra rC+ and some AC usually.

[Sphara]

Sandman: I have not cast the spell in ages. It is a good spell if used right but as said so many times, it is too expensive for huge majority of characters. And without it, training Controlled Blink to 1% is pretty much overpreparation imo (doesn't hurt but still eats loads of EXP).

My recommendation would be:

1) If you want to clear ziggurats, learn it.

[and into]

Uh, yeah, I'd generally get necromutation over getting skills, including even useful ones like fighting and dodging, to level 27, because that just becomes so expensive, but it is seldom the case that those are literally your only two options for skill training. The takeaway from your wizmode test is that going from 20 to 27 is extremely expensive, not that necromutation is inexpensive, nor that necromutation is necessarily a good thing to get. (I agree that late-game DEs can certainly pick it up if they want to, and that Revivification at the least, and probably death's door, are what you should prioritize first, assuming you have the Necronomicon and not some randart book with just necromutation in it.)

[Sandman25]

I am not sure why you are arguing. Necromutation is a great spell for some characters and I have just proved that Necromutation is cheap and optimal for DE with 35 Int.
CBlink at 1% is my personal preference, just yesterday I got 3 miscasts in a row for Phase Shift at 2% and unfortunately CBlink cannot be at 0% as far as I know.

[and into]

Yes, for a high intelligence character with wizardry and that already has high necromancy investment for other spells, it can actually be fairly cheap to pick up late game, and it can be worth getting for some characters even when it is not so cheap. What I object to is calling it "optimal," and in particular doing so on the basis of a comparison to getting dodging/fighting/etc. to level 27.

[Sandman25]

But it was optimal That DE didn't even have wizardry.

Edit. I took DEWz, learned beastly app., animate skeleton, flame tongue and set XL to 27. This is what I got:

  Code:

Health: 47/168     AC:  2    Str:  4    XL:     27
Magic:  16/52      EV: 25    Int: 22    God:    No God 0 (0)
Gold:   0          SH:  0    Dex: 13    Spells: 7 memorised, 43 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     (no weapon)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     a - +0 robe
rNeg   . . .     SustAb   .     (no shield)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     b - +0 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   .     (no cloak)
rCorr  .         Warding  .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (no boots)
MR     ++...                    (no amulet)
Stlth  ++........               (no ring)
                                w - ring of wizardry {wiz+, !d}

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: no striking features
a: no special abilities


You are on level 1 of the Dungeon.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 1 of its levels.

   Skills:
 + Level 16.0 Fighting
 + Level 21.5 Dodging
 - Level 2.4 Stealth
 + Level 23.2 Spellcasting
 + Level 20.0 Conjurations
   Level 1.1 Summonings
 + Level 21.4 Necromancy
   Level 1.1 Translocations
 + Level 20.0 Transmutations
 + Level 20.0 Fire Magic


You have 43 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Beastly Appendage     Trmt           50 (50)      0%          1    0
b - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      40 (40)      0%          1    0
c - Necromutation         Trmt/Necr      86 (200)     1%          8    339
d - Fire Storm            Conj/Fire      85 (200)     17%         9    489
u - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          0%          1    0
z - Magic Dart            Conj           25 (25)      0%          1    0
K - Borgnjor's Revivific  Necr           87 (200)     1%          8    339



Quite good character. Both Necromancy and Transmutation is overtrained, the XP should be put into Fire/Conj/Lajatang/Demon weapon. Also note it has starting attributes of DEWz, without +9 Int (from every 3rd level) and +6 Int (from every 4rd level).

Edit 2. With +15 Int Fire Storm gets to 7%.

[tabstorm]

The only things that are really a threat to kill you in extended are:

1. Archdemons
1a. Serpent of Hell
2. Hellfire
3. Ice Fiend melee without rC
4. Hell Sentinels

Torment itself won't kill you. You just want to limit your turns in view of torment users so you can keep your HP up in the event that something dangerous walks into view afterward, TSO and Makhleb help with this. This way, even if something dangerous does come onscreen, you are less likely to die before teleport goes off. The biggest threat is when a torment user and hellfire user are both onscreen, because you are at risk of dying in 2-3 turns. Necromutation is good if you have the experience and int for it, since it helps keep you out of panic situations. Like Sandman said, 2-3 more points of AC and EV won't help much since a lot of damage in extended ignores AC/EV anyway, and you likely have high AC/EV to begin with.

[Sandman25]

Also we forgot about Flay, Necromutation makes you immune to it too. I am playing non-transmutations OpFi of Qazlal at the moment and surprisingly I am much more scared of Flayed Ghosts than Hell Sentinels. Flay does not need LoF.

[nago]

But with Qzlol you can kill easily ghost with aa!

[Sandman25]

But with Qzlol you can kill easily ghost with aa!

Yes, I know, this is what I do because I don't have Necromutation. I tried to save piety killing them conventionally but it was too dangerous/stupid.

[Sphara]

I thought people do extended with other classes too (outside Deep Elves).

First and foremost, most characters never find the spell anyway. Well those who get Kiku, will. And those who are willing to pick Sif, may eventually.
So, if you're set up for it early in the game and you know what you're doing, it will help.

Otherwise it is not a goal to set up for you. Deep Elf who stays alive via conjuring, cannot wait for that spell like if it was granted. You want to train basically every goddamn other skill but Transmutations. And IF you do find the spell, it also requires substantial skill investment on invocations/evocations unless you're with Vehumet or TSO on certain levels. Or maybe using Makhleb and sublimation.

Getting not tormented in the extended is a huge deal, won't argue with that. If you can deal with the downsides, you have a wand of heal wounds and good reliable source of channeling, Necromutation is a good spell for you. And this was solely about conjurers.

Any melee/hybrid char has wasted 8 points of spell slots and huge amount of EXP, if one has lichform castable. No matter what the combo.

[xentronium]

The only things that are really a threat to kill you in extended are:

1. Archdemons
1a. Serpent of Hell
2. Hellfire
3. Ice Fiend melee without rC
4. Hell Sentinels

5. Shard shrikes packs.

[Turukano]

Any melee/hybrid char has wasted 8 points of spell slots and huge amount of EXP, if one has lichform castable. No matter what the combo.

Although I was speedrunning I went for lichform with my hybrid OgSk of Ash last year.

Yes, this was expensive in means of XP but I wouldn't say the spell slots were wasted. Killing greater mummies in tomb with a lichform ogre who casts silence and wields a GSC of flaming is at least as easy as doing tomb with Kiku.

I still think necromutation is nice for a hybrid in extended. Ash helps with skill boosts and clarity. If necromut was cheaper I'd recommend it for every hybrid or caster. Alas, it's a lev 8 spell...

[Sandman25]

Any player who lost a character in extended should seriously consider going for Necromutation next time.
I used Necromutation with lots of hybrids: DDEE of Makhleb, HEAM of Chei, NaVM of Chei, DEFE of Vehumet, MfIE of Ash, OpCj of Vehumet and even with melee FoMo of Chei.
I don't understand how it is possible to say "Getting not tormented in the extended is a huge deal, won't argue with that" and "Any melee/hybrid char has wasted 8 points of spell slots and huge amount of EXP, if one has lichform castable. No matter what the combo" in one message. Especially "No matter what the combo".

[Sphara]

Any melee/hybrid char has wasted 8 points of spell slots and huge amount of EXP, if one has lichform castable. No matter what the combo.

Although I was speedrunning I went for lichform with my hybrid OgSk of Ash last year.

Yes, this was expensive in means of XP but I wouldn't say the spell slots were wasted. Killing greater mummies in tomb with a lichform ogre who casts silence and wields a GSC of flaming is at least as easy as doing tomb with Kiku.

I still think necromutation is nice for a hybrid in extended. Ash helps with skill boosts and clarity. If necromut was cheaper I'd recommend it for every hybrid or caster. Alas, it's a lev 8 spell...

I think recommending it based on this game is a bit much. First of all, you play speedruns. Second, you got it castable coz you found lotsa experience potions from zigs (you did several halfway). Are you seriously recommending Necromutation for Ogre melee/hybrid IN GENERAL?

[Turukano]

Are you seriously recommending Necromutation for Ogre melee/hybrid IN GENERAL?

Did you read the last two sentences of my post?
If necromut was cheaper I'd recommend it for every hybrid or caster. Alas, it's a lev 8 spell...

[Sphara]

Are you seriously recommending Necromutation for Ogre melee/hybrid IN GENERAL?

Did you read the last two sentences of my post?
If necromut was cheaper I'd recommend it for every hybrid or caster. Alas, it's a lev 8 spell...

It is still level 8 spell so talk to the developers to make it easier to recommend.

[Sandman25]

Speaking about torment. I have just got an Ice Fiend and 2 Tormentors from hell effect, I didn't even know it is possible. Almost died (they survived 2 invocations of Disaster Area, they were adjacent to me and to a wall, also I had about 50% HP when they appeared). That would be trivial with Necromutation.

[tabstorm]

I believe that disaster area tries to avoid hitting you when you invoke it. Since they are adjacent, it will not be very effective. Why is disaster area even allowed to damage you at all? I don't know.

[pickled_heretic]

Rather than saying "you can't die from torment, only X" I think it's more accurate to say that you die from having your HP completely depleted and torment does a damn fine job at depleting HP even if it can't deal the final blow...

[bcadren]

I've used Necromutation in -most- my wins. I pretty well think it's necessary FOR TOMB. Hell it's a good idea, but not necessary. Crypt, it's not a bad idea. Pan, I prefer to use it vs. Gloorx Vloq, myself; some people say it's a bad idea because of dispel undead, but I think it's better to take that than get slowed by Miasma and Tormented. (up to 75 damage that ignores AC is basically Hellfire and could technically kill most characters in 3-4 hits; but is more usually 7-8 hits to kill); plus he's likely to waste turns with P.Arrow, etc.

[gammafunk]

Disaster area doesn't hit the player, and I don't understand "Why is disaster area even allowed to damage you at all? I don't know." at all as a rhetorical question. That's precisely what it doesn't do.

It uses upheaval explosions which are radius 1 or 2, depending on invocations, and for choosing the explosion centers it favors closer squares and squares with monsters. Monsters 1 or 2 tiles away can't be the center of an explosion, but they're still likely to be hit by explosions at the higher-weighted tiles a bit further away from the player. A more ideal system might just weight each explosion by what's caught in the radius for the weighting-by-monster component.

[Sandman25]

That was a small room like this:

  Code:

#####
....#
..@2#
..12#
#####

where 1 was Ice Fiend and 2 were Tormentors. Disaster slightly wounded them both times as far as I remember. Or maybe they were just wounded by passive clouds and Disaster cannot deal damage to monsters in such position.

[duvessa]

Disaster area doesn't hit the player, and I don't understand "Why is disaster area even allowed to damage you at all? I don't know." at all as a rhetorical question. That's precisely what it doesn't do.

I think he meant "Why does disaster area avoid you, instead of just hitting you and not doing damage?" Like shock serpent explosion on allied monsters if that's still in.

[Sprucery]

I've used Necromutation in -most- my wins. I pretty well think it's necessary FOR TOMB.

Not if you're with Kiku. Also you can't use it if you're with Trog, Fedhas (rare but has been done) or any of the good gods. So I don't think it can be called necessary.

[Pollen_Golem]

Tomb isn't that hard - rN+++ is plenty enough.

[Sandman25]

Tomb is trivial with Haste and Silence, holy weapon helps a lot and it cannot be used with Necromutation. Even with Qazlal it is easy not to fight more than 3 Greater Mummies simultaneously and they are silenced.
New rotting mechanic makes Tomb more enjoyable, you no longer need to think about quaffing potions of curing during fights.

[Berder]

Necromutation is really good in extended - provided you can reasonably get it. It's not required, but it does make the game a lot easier. I'd get it on necromancers and deep elves, at least.

(Although on a mage, maybe I'd prioritize getting a level 9 spell over getting necromutation)

[celem]

Also we forgot about Flay[....]Flay does not need LoF.

Thats a damn good point. I find flay at least as scary as torment, partly because im more likely to run into flay than torment in a 3-rune and I generally find im more likely to meet flay as part of a mixed group than torment as part of such a group. (since neither is particularly threatening in and of itself). Flay is more scary because its targeted on you, it doesnt even have the dubious benefit of also battering whatever living hostiles are on-screen. Did not know necromut protected against flay, i'd be perhaps a little more likely to pick it up in a future run now.

@Disaster Area

Monsters 1 or 2 tiles away can't be the center of an explosion, but they're still likely to be hit by explosions at the higher-weighted tiles a bit further away from the player.

I often found this ability able to annihilate monsters adjacent to me. I guess it was big radius upheavals centering further out and winging them (I've never fired disaster without at least 20 evo). While I noticed this during my Qaz runs I actually thought this was bolts reflecting off walls and then detonating closer than they otherwise would. Disaster area is awesome if you can control the reflection, you can turn it into a mega-glaciate with little hassle (its perfect for 1-shotting slime:6 if you can hone it down to 90-degrees or so using the vault walls). I was just about ready to believe that there was a minimum bolt-path length rather than a minimum distance from the character, but gammafunk is a name i'd trust to have some handle on the implementation of it. (and im not source-diving myself to check)

[dowan]

You don't need necromut for extended, I've won a few 15 rune games without it, which indisputably proves it's not necessary.
It's certainly nice to have torment immunity available, and hungerless channeling is always nice.

I think necromut is both wildy overrated, and quite underrated at the same time, by different groups. It's a huge XP investment, and the tmut is probably a waste of XP for 90% of characters.

[mps]

I wouldn't say necromutation is overrated (among players I regularly spectate and chat with, necromutation is rarely used in extended or otherwise). The interest in necromutation among newer players is a product of the wiki's exaggeration of the dangers of torment and overselling of the spell itself ("necromutation is a game changer" because . . . food) imo.

[Rast]

Having this spell is a game-changer. No hunger means that you can play like a mummy (but with the aptitudes and stats of your race), as long as you recast the spell once in awhile. Spam your big spells, wear rings of regeneration and abuse Sif Muna's channeling; the hunger won't affect your living form as long as you do it all as a lich.

Oh badwiki, why must you be so bad?

[bel]

What is bad about badwiki? Necromutation does allow you to spam channeling. It is indeed a game changer. It is just very expensive, so it might not be worth it. Fire storm is also a game changer, and it might still not be worth to get it.

[Sar]

I died due to Necromut at least 3 times!

[Bart]

Torment's deadliness might not be obvious because of delayed occurrence. Torment forces to fight with lowered health, especially when regeneration is poor and when it combines with other hell effects. While good player might know when to escape / hide, unskilled players do not evaluate risks adequately and torment can easily put a player into deadly situations. Granted, heavy torment combined with other environmental risks is not very common, but torment immunity cuts down the risk to zero.

Most of the time player can easily regenerate lost HPs between battles, but... but what if he did not need to regenerate them? Torment immunity is also convenient. Having tormentors (plus some additional threat) in LoS normally requires more complex strategies. Necromutation overall makes extended more smooth and forgiving; cuts game length both in terms of turns (not speaking here of effort to get the spell castable) and real time (less retreating, simpler fighting).

Also, following benefits of necromutation have not been stressed sufficiently yet:
- rN+++ and thus drain immunity without any items. Drain efficiently counters benefits from skill train, so one might as well invest experience points in necromutation and avoid the problem entirely.
- significant MR bonus.
- mutation immunity. Maybe teleportitis is not often, but it is something I definitely do not want to get.
Even if all these are easily accessible, they will occupy slots that could be used for other reasons... if that is not an issue, necromutation is probably redundant. From my experience, that's the case of maybe 10% of the games. A comfort granted by the spell can hardly be matched otherwise, only god protection coming to my mind at the moment.

Source: a person who won 15-runners ~80 times and most of these wins involved the use of necromutation. Laziness and overcautious playing? Maybe. Comfort and safety? Sure.

[Sandman25]

Torment immunity is simply convenient.

I wouldn't call it simply convenient. When I found Serpent of Hell on Geh:7 after killing some Tormentors/Briemstone Fiends and teleported about 7 times spamming wand of heal wound like crazy, I was 100% sure I would be dead without Necromutation. Death's Door would not be safe enough because of hell effects. Revivification does not help much when you have 2-3 Briemstone Fiends in LoS or when 2 Tormentors and one Ice Fiend spawn adjacent to you and you are at 50% HP when it happens.
Necromutation guarantees your DE/HE/etc. cannot die in one turn from full HP when you have 1 Tormentor and some normal monsters (or hellfire). Tormentor can torment you twice in 10 auts. Being safe vs losing 58% HP (with rN+++!) in one turn to a single monster is not convenience, it's really great.

I have never died due to Necromutation, but I am sure I would die with some of those characters without Necromutation.

Edit. Training Armour/Dodging/Fighting after skill level 20 or so is simply convenience.

[Bart]

Torment immunity is simply convenient.

I wouldn't call it simply convenient.

Call it a bad wording. I rephrased original post, as it's both convenient and of course increasing survivability.

Speaking of deaths caused by Necromutation, I can remember at least two of them. Once I could survive, were I able to cast Borg (although without Borg I would be dead anyway). The second was really amusing and completely unexpected - I stepped onto Zot trap in Tomb:2, which confused me and teleported into the middle room (which I skipped earlier by shattering Tomb:1 level). Confusion lasted so long that even necromut didn't save me from all smites.

[Sandman25]

Speaking of deaths caused by Necromutation, I can remember at least two of them. Once I could survive, were I able to cast Borg (although without Borg I would be dead anyway). The second was really amusing and completely unexpected - I stepped onto Zot trap in Tomb:2, which confused me and teleported into the middle room (which I skipped earlier by shattering Tomb:1 level). Confusion lasted so long that even necromut didn't save me from all smites.

What caused the first death, 4+ Briemstone Fiends/Hell Sentinels/Hellions?
I don't remember using Necromutation without clarity, basically having Clarity is a prerequisite for even considering Necromutation for me.
I usually play expecting the worst possible actions from monsters, this is why I value Necromutation so much. If the monsters don't act in a perfect (for them) way, I am pleasantly surprised and feel lucky.

[Lasty]

A lot of the posts in this thread seem to be interpreting nordetsa as saying "deep elf" instead of "caster". They also seem to be interpreting, "But then how would non-lich caster would fare in the extended?" as "Tell me why necromutation is great, even though it's implied that I already think it's good."

To address the initial post directly, the answers are:
1) heavy offense -- you can't get tormented by monsters that you've already killed;
2) good tactics and positioning and LOS-manipulation -- limit how many monsters have access to you and make sure the ones that do have access are where you want them to be;
3) Have a good recovery/escape plan for when you get tormented or can't use 1) and 2) to avoid the likelihood of being tormented.

More generally, "casters" don't have anything different to fear from torment than any other sort of character. Often they have less, since "caster" generally is taken to mean a focus on conjurations and spellpower. All the same tactics that "non-casters" use are valid, along with the possibility that you have very powerful long-range nukes that can take out even groups of tormenting monsters in 1-2 shots without worrying about positioning much.

As Bart says, Necromutation is a convenience, not a necessity; as Sar says, it can get you killed; as Sandman25 admits, it's expensive, even for a character set up as an extreme example of a "caster" that uses Necromutation. If you already have the spell castable for whatever reason, it can serve a purpose, but it's by no means necessary. People play the game in a wide variety of ways: for example, Sandman25 feels that the extended game would frequently kill him the way he plays unless he makes use of Necromutation; by contrast, I've never found it particularly useful except in one game where a remarkably small number of curing potions generated and where I was doing Tomb and getting lots of rot curses, and even then it was more convenience than necessity -- I had already done all four hells and all 5 pan runes and one level of Tomb before getting Necromutation.

[Sandman25]

Let me list how I play casters when I don't go for Necromutation.
1) Tornado is the best spell in Hell, it attacks all hell spawns and is very mana efficient. Every caster should have a holy/vorpal weapon at this point and use it to save mana. When you are at full MP, use Tornado. When you are at full HP, use weapon.
2) Find and use staff of energy and/or crystal ball of energy. When there are no monsters in LoS, you should stop immediately and restore HP/MP (regeneration spell, channeling).
3) Train axes if you got a holy battleaxe, it helps a lot. This is very unlikely loot though, so lajatang of speed or eudemon blade/sacred scourge are excellent too.
4) If you feel weak vs torment/hellfire, consider diving Pan to get to holy pan floor. It always has demonic rune.
5) Always train Stealth.
6) If you are using noisy spell like Fire Storm, always retreat after spending 30-50% mana assuming you don't have dangerous monsters which should be killed now. Retreating with weak monsters in LoS is fine, you will kill them with weapon 1-2 screens away from Fire Storm area.
7) Get Controlled Blink, you can land into very bad places in Pan so 1-2 Controlled Blinks and then running away can be the optimal way of "fighting" there.
8) Don't enter extended without castable Haste.

[Sandman25]

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