MuXX of X

[pickled_heretic]

Okay, so I have played quite a bit in the past, but it's been a couple versions since I last played and I wanted to get into crawl again.

I have never ascended with a mummy, or a primary spellcaster, so I wanted to try one. I have done MuNe and after about half a dozen disappointing attempts (I couldn't even get past lair) I switched to IE for the overpowered starting book and managed to get to vaults. I was wearing 2 rings of ice which I knew at the time was basically just walking around with a loaded gun pointed at my face but the power boost to icicle was addicting and I couldn't take them off. I was really hoping to find FDA to help offset the ridiculous rF--- that I was walking around with. Well, one thing leads to another, and after falling down a pit I got blasted by a fire giant and died. Big surprise, right?

But seriously, how do you play this character? I was worshiping Sif Muna, so I had a good access to books and spells, but I felt like I had to take big, stupid risks to get anything done (like wearing two rings of ice). Will post morgue later. Is mummy supposed to be a challenge race or am I just retarded?

[Sar]

Mummy is the worst race in the game, yes.

[Sandman25]

When I was trying to win a Mu I tried different backgrounds and found that Cj was the easiest, -2 aptitudes are not that bad when you are training only 1 skill and kill monsters from distance with endless MP from Sif Muna. I haven't tried the build with Vehumet, probably it is even better.

[pickled_heretic]

Yeah, I wanted to have fun with the infinite mana from channel and no hunger, but it doesn't do much to stop the terrible drawbacks of being a Mu.

I will give Cj a try. it sounds a lot better than anything I tried so far.

[Sar]

MuNe is actually really good IME if you go Kiku.

[njvack]

Yeah, remember you get plenty of torment and that you and your zombie buddies are unaffected by it.

[Sar]

I checked the morgue and I actually used Torment 4 times total. 164 uses of Kiku's delivery, though.

[le_nerd]

I have played a few Mu of Gozag (with later abandonment for Ash). That works reasonably well; no piety decay goes great with your non-existent food clock. You not only get access to healing but all the other buffs (might haste agil etc) and you get the first equipment boost reasonably early.

[xentronium]

MuBe!

[Berder]

I won my first 3 mummies: MuWn^Trog, MuAE^Gozag, MuVM^Vehumet. Poison immunity is nice early on. Other than that you just have to be a more focused character due to the bad aptitudes (eg skip gods that require invocations and maybe don't take evo either), and play carefully.

[Sprucery]

I'm currently playing a MuVM of Kiku (2 runes, on Depths:2). In the early game it's very nice when you can cast mephitic clouds all over the place. Likewise toxic radiance is convenient as Mu.

[dowan]

I had an easy time with a MuGl of Oka, oddly enough. Just a mummy with a sword, at some point I'm pretty sure I grabbed some easy spells, but I just played it the same way I'd play any other Gl.

Whatever you choose, I think the trick is to focus your training a little more than usual, and don't be afraid to fall back and rest.

[Sar]

MuBe is actually very far from the worst Mu.

[pickled_heretic]

I play lots of melee characters, and most of my successful ascents converge on some kind of hybridish utility type who mainly just beats stuff with a stick of some kind. I wanted to play a character whose primary form of killing stuff comes from spells, I guess that's my definition of a "spellcaster" character. I am not above using an enhancer or a sharp stick to kill trash but I have played lots of melee centric characters and I want something new.

I don't really enjoy the Ne playstyle, I think that's why I had a hard time with him. Frankly I didn't really like the IE playstyle either but I know it works because I've done it with other characters.

[dowan]

Well, you could always play a MuFE or MuCj for fairly straightforward spellcaster play. Or a MuSu if you don't mind being bored.

[tasonir]

I played a lot of mummy death knights, having yred early was nice. Obviously you can't start as a death knight anymore, but you could still take yred. Having so many allies meant it didn't matter as much if I was behind the power curve. That said, I still died.

The mummy I actually won was a hunter with bows + maces, eventually using a velocity longbow/flaming great mace. Not sure if training two weapons on a mummy is really great advice, but it did work for me. Okawaru with +5 all skills certainly helps a ton when your weapons aren't at min delay, though.

[Hurkyl]

MuWz is rough in the first few dungeon floors due to low spell power for Magic Dart and multischool spells, but with Sif, becomes amazing in the later early game, due to your ability to spam clouds with reckless abandon, and you still have Blink as a last resort should your clouds fail to prevent a dangerous opponent from reaching you.

Of course, this only works if you play defensively; make sure everything in sight that is even remotely dangerous is either confused or blocked by flame clouds (or both!), keep your MP high by opting to channel during fights rather than after, and so forth.

[Sar]

I'm not sure I can recommend MuWz of Sif. I find Wz to be a really hard start compared to other offensive spellcasters, and Sif won't gift you new books for a terribly long time.

[Hurkyl]

... which is why I take advantage of the defensive strength. In my estimation, MuCj has an easier time getting to, say, the 4th floor, but once you're there, MuWz has an easier time making it to Lair. And while clouds can get you through Lair, IIRC Sif usually starts offering books around upper lair if you're focusing on magic. But you can do more dungeon and/or orc if you're doubting your ability to deal with fast/poison-immune monsters.

[Sar]

Every time I hear that "X is good if you play carefully/defensively" wrt Crawl I just automatically translate it as "X is bad/weak", sorry.

And focusing on magic exclusively massively cripples most characters, which is another reason I dislike Sif on weakish chars.

Compare to Kiku who will just give you piety for killing things and will gift you some extremely useful stuff at *, or to Veh who accepts kills as well and will start gifting offensive spells early too (no guarantee they'll be good or suitable, but the amount he gifts means at least some of them likely will).

[Berder]

Every time I hear that "X is good if you play carefully/defensively" wrt Crawl I just automatically translate it as "X is bad/weak", sorry.

Every time I hear that "X is bad/weak" wrt Crawl I just automatically translate it to "X is a worthy challenge to prove your strength."

[Sar]

that's really cute and all, but I want to point out that the point of this thread is to help our friend pickled_heretic to win his first Mummy and not to brag about how good we are at Crawl (well, you are, I'm nothing special really)

[Sandman25]

... which is why I take advantage of the defensive strength. In my estimation, MuCj has an easier time getting to, say, the 4th floor, but once you're there, MuWz has an easier time making it to Lair. And while clouds can get you through Lair, IIRC Sif usually starts offering books around upper lair if you're focusing on magic. But you can do more dungeon and/or orc if you're doubting your ability to deal with fast/poison-immune monsters.

Wz needs to hybridize early, Cj can reach Vaults with nothing but starting book. Especially easy if playing defensively and retreating after the smallest sign of danger.

[Berder]

I wouldn't recommend a MuWz^sif. If I were playing a MuWz I'd take vehumet to get good early damage spells in time for lair. Also, hybridizing is a risky strategy as Mu due to the aptitudes.

Ashenzari is good for mummies in general due to the clarity and skill boost, which counteract the two main disadvantages of being a mummy.

[Sar]

I don't know about Ash tbh, the main problem with Ash is obviously that Ash is kind of useless until mid-Lair or so and I can see that part of the game being hard even on a good mummy.

[Elystan]

I don't know about Ash tbh, the main problem with Ash is obviously that Ash is kind of useless until mid-Lair or so and I can see that part of the game being hard even on a good mummy.

Having played a ton of ash characters I'd say this really depends on whether you find a D:2 altar or a D:7 altar. The clarity and see invis can make a large difference if you get them in reasonable time. Most gods are doing nothing for you below 3* piety anyhow.

[Sar]

I never thought clarity or sinv were significant perks of Ash (not to brag, but I won over 16 Ash chars and it is probably my favourite god). Obviously clarity is more desirable for mummies than it is for every other race (and by "more desirable" I mean "desirable at all apart from edge cases").

And the gods I mentioned as recommended do quite a bit more than Ash at ***. I actually don't remember what's Veh *** perks are, but Kiku at *** gifts you your second book already, a book with Agony and Dispel and Animate Dead (and/or Simulacrum IIRC)! Not to mention both of these gods aren't a pain in the ass to get piety with.

[Sandman25]

I'm nothing special really

I won over 16 Ash chars

Contradicting paragraphs detected

[Sar]

Those were strong characters mostly so I didn't really need gods until Lair.

I know it might sounds strange when I'm saying that Ash isn't a very strong god and also say I like Ash the most. This isn't because I view Ash runs as some kind of a challenge - I just like the flexibility Ash provides and adapting to what I find.

[Sandman25]

Come on, winning 16 Ash characters is something special.

[Sar]

It's just a question of playing a lot? However, let's not go off-topic, please.

[tabstorm]

Don't walk around with negative resists, especially not rF---.

Mummies are the worst race in DCSS and are in a special tier of badness along with Nagas.
For a Mummy mage I would use Vehumet so that I can cast good spells sooner and kill enemies quickly. For a melee mummy you should choose a god that gives good offensive abilities quickly to help you overcome being gimped by -2 apts. Hybrid-type starts with mummies are even worse than usual.

[Rast]

I thought rF--- is no worse than rF-, except that it's easier to fix.

[tabstorm]

That is why you should avoid walking around with it.

[pickled_heretic]

I ascended with more than one naga, at least one worshiping chei, and I think mummies are a special kind of bad beyond nagas or any other race. Great advice and entertaining posts so far. Re: rf--- is dumb, well yeah I knew for sure, but I figured I might as well embrace it until I can get fda, which i still didn't have on vaults 4... I should have adapted but I was getting frustrated with the character anyway.

[Berder]

Mummies are a challenge race but they have some advantages. The ability to wear any armor mean they can become much more durable than many races that have limited armour slots. Once you've got that going it's basically like playing a standard fighter, albeit with rF- and trouble with confusion.

[linear]

Does lack of hunger give a fighter Mummy any significant advantages over other races? If you must play a Mummy, then I can believe melee would be a good route with only a few skills to train. But if you want to play melee, would Mummy give you some good angle?

They can't berserk. The wiki lists regen gear, spell hunger, evoc hunger, vampiric weapons. Sif's channel energy might be a little useful to bring spirit shield up between fights. Fedhas has good food-powered abilities, but he won't accept undead. There's a slight edge with Trog, Gozag, and any other god that makes you give up corpses - but there's a decent supply of permafood to fuel plain fighters anyway.

Evoc hunger seems like the most significant plus for a melee Mummy, except for that -1 aptitude.

[Berder]

Actually, all my mummy wins were ranged. My MuWn used a longbow with Trog, my MuAE used air magic plus rods, and my MuVM was a pure blaster caster.

[kroki]

sword & board mube was my only Mu win and it was easy, too. your first priority should be to nullify the rF- so you can stop running away from every orc wizard. trog gifts should happen around lair and after your first big weapon its more or less smooth sailing.

0 skill slings/javelins, wands will help you through the game. you save a lot of inventory slots since you cant drink potions. fill those with ranged weapons and evocables. avoid putting any exp into ranged skills before your first solid weapon gift, least trogs decided to shower you with ammunition.

[Zargon]

Here's my ascension with a MuWz: Click. It was my first online win.

I picked Mu for the hungerless casting and undead immunities (and for the challenge), Wz for the high starting intelligence, and Sif for the free mana. I would probably have picked Ash in retrospect for the skill boost and clarity and a staff of energy for mana replenishment, but there you go.

After a lot of screw-ups, I found that the secret for dealing with mummy craptitudes is to get conjurations to about 4 or so early on (for magic dart), and then get 1 skill level in all the spell schools else in your starting spellbook (poison, translocations, summoning, air, charms) whilst keeping conjurations focussed. Keep this up, picking up cheap skills here and there (e.g. a buckler and 2 shields skill is v. useful) until you hit 5% or better fail rate for your starting spells. Avoid anything that could confuse / flame you like the plague, Then get a little spellcasting for the mana pool, spell success and spell points. When you find necromancy books, use the same training strategy, but with necromancy focused instead of conjurations. Eventually I found agony / bolt of draining / bolt of fire (plus the spell boosts at xl13 and xl26) to be an awesome combination for living enemies, and dispel undead for undead ones (didn't bother with demonic in the end). Hungerless OOD + hungerlessly waiting for dudes to hit permateleports while camped on the stairs turned Zot:5 into a !xp, as did dispel undead (+being undead) for the tomb and crypt. I could have easily pushed for more runes, but I couldn't face doing it all again if things went pear-shaped , so I just took the win.

Enjoy...

[Sandman25]

Mummies are a challenge race but they have some advantages. The ability to wear any armor mean they can become much more durable than many races that have limited armour slots. Once you've got that going it's basically like playing a standard fighter, albeit with rF- and trouble with confusion.

Wearing heaviest armour with Fi is not a no-brainer for some species. When you are weak and vulnerable you may be interested in wearing a robe and training Stealth early, this is what I usually do with Na, for example. It does not work for Mu because of bad aptitudes. Other species in heavy armour (or just Op) who are noticed by something extremely bad can quaff might/haste/invisibility/heal wound and win/escape, Mu is quite different from other standard fighters.

PS. I cannot decide which is harder: Op, Mu or Fe, everything is too easy with optimal play unless there is some bad luck.

[Sprucery]

PS. I cannot decide which is harder: Op, Mu or Fe

Well, there probably isn't any race categorically harder than all others. It all depends on circumstances...

[Berder]

PS. I cannot decide which is harder: Op, Mu or Fe, everything is too easy with optimal play unless there is some bad luck.

Op is harder ime. Fe is one of the most death-resistant races with optimal play.

[njvack]

MuWz was really strong (well, boring) way back in the day, back when you could choose summoning and there was no summon cap. You could kill everything with spammals, later imps, and meph stuff your imps were killing. Canines would even take care of unseen horrors. You'd worship Sif and kill everything with infinite summons.

So a lot of the "MuWz is strong" advice is probably because once, it was.

[Sandman25]

Op is harder ime.

Well, maybe you should win a Mu without powerful ranged attack first to get more info? Like MuMo with UC.

[Sar]

Once you've got that going it's basically like playing a standard fighter, albeit with rF- and trouble with confusion.

also without might, agility, potions of haste and heal wounds, but with dispel undead and holy wrath vulnerabilies...

[Sandman25]

Also later there is a problem with potion of cancellation and Regeneration spell. Mark or petrification is not fun at all.

[Berder]

Op is harder ime.

Well, maybe you should win a Mu without powerful ranged attack first to get more info? Like MuMo with UC.

I played a local MuMo and got to d:10 and the lair entrance easily enough, first try. I seem to have good luck with mummies, or maybe it's that the lack of food pressure helps me play more safely. Poison immunity is pretty helpful in d1-10.

[Sandman25]

I played a local MuMo and got to d:10 and the lair entrance easily enough, first try. I seem to have good luck with mummies, or maybe it's that the lack of food pressure helps me play more safely. Poison immunity is pretty helpful in d1-10.

Several days ago I played a local OpFi and got to d:10 and the lair entrance easily enough, first try. I seem to have good luck with Op, or maybe it's that the lack of vulnerability to fire helps me to play more safely. Constriction is pretty helpful in d1-10.

[pickled_heretic]

Was doing pretty well with a Cj last night, but a rupert near a staircase in the lair fus ro dah'ed my mummified brain right out of my head a moment before he berserked and smacked me with his holy wrath great mace. (or maybe it was fire? either way it was pretty much a one-shot)

It's just a matter of not getting skunked by really stupid rng now. I've not really used the Cj starting book much but it's at least killy enough to keep me going without being tedious like with summoning or (to a lesser extent) necromancy.