Advise for playing vine stalkers

[WingedEspeon]

I recently started wanting to play vine stalkers. I'm wondering how I should change my strategy/tactics for playing a vine stalker, what roles the excel at, etc.

[Berder]

• Most importantly, healing potions and wands don't work on you. This means you have to be extra careful about buffing prior to a fight so you don't need to heal, and also about blinking or teleporting before your HP drops too low.
• You can use short blades better than any other race. A quickblade will remain a good weapon into the endgame due to VS bite. VS bite more often if they are attacking with a faster weapon.
• Makhleb is one way to compensate for no device healing, although VS can work well with any god.
• With some builds you can use the vine stalker MP recovery from biting to regain a lot of MP quickly, and then use the MP for spellcasting.
• Aside from that, VS plays like most other races. They also have spirit shield and fast regen but those do not have a major effect on your gameplay decisions.

[linear]

I did a VS run a couple weeks ago. Not as bad as octopode or naga, but very frustrating. VS aptitudes favor spellcasting, and some advice here recommended a hybrid approach with spells to damage/debuff at range and then closing for melee. Seemed logical. That's what I did as IE of Ely, and it ended up being quite weak. One person here said to go for heavy armor and strong melee right away, and in hindsight that would have been better.

Also, don't step inside Spider 4-5 or Zot without Sinv, or else ghost moths will devour you.

[tasonir]

Vine stalkers make excellent transmuters. Go melee, bite restores your mana (aka health) and you will regen extremely quickly. That -30% health doesn't hurt so much when you're in a form with +30 or +50% health. Add additional regeneration on top for bonus fun. Don't forget to train spellcasting for extra mana in the mid/late game. I didn't train much spellcasting (10) in the 3 rune game, but for the 15 rune run I had it up to 20. Necromancer is a good background to start with for the regeneration, and you get a good int score.

Unarmed is a high speed attack (5 aut). It won't keep up with a quick blade, of course, but quick blades are pretty hard to come by unless you're going with a gift god.

[nago]

Can't check now but I'm pretty sure forms disable their bite so actually tm is one of the worst choice for a VS.
Sure, bh doesn't block it, but I wouldn't suggest to anyone to play an hard background which also blocks race's strongest power (making it certainly quite shitty) until mid game

[Sandman25]

Regarding strategies, if you want to keep VS alive at least once in a time:
- stick to medium armour (heavy if you don't cast). Evasion alone isn't very reliable and it's better to take average beating all the time (because you can regenerate that) rather than get beaten heavily once (because you don't have HP to take heavy beating).
- train spellcasting or evocations early. Train fighting early. These additional HPs/MPs seriously help.
- choose god giving defense boosts. It helps a lot with rather crappy VS defense aptitudes. I highly suggest Okawaru for immediate heroism or Ashenzari if you can wait for boosts. Chei in theory should work, in practice didn't for me (and Chei is considered a challenge god by many people).
- check if you have critical consumables before engaging in tough fights. Since you cannot heal, you are particularly looking for scrolls of blinking, fear, strong wands and evocables. Also potions of magic! They are rich man's potions of heal wounds.

[xentronium]

IMO Chei and Zin are particularly good with vine stalkers.
The chance of your bite triggering is based on str+dex, and raising these stats enough means that you get a bite almost every attack.

[tasonir]

Can't check now but I'm pretty sure forms disable their bite so actually tm is one of the worst choice for a VS.
Sure, bh doesn't block it, but I wouldn't suggest to anyone to play an hard background which also blocks race's strongest power (making it certainly quite shitty) until mid game

I'll have to test this later but I'd be somewhat surprised if statue form disables bite; it doesn't disable constriction or similar aux attacks. Hydra/dragon form might, but those are mostly gimmick forms anyways, and not what I'd generally recommend. In 90% of transmuters, you want either blade hands or statue form.

[nago]

Gimmick form? What?

Dragon form is definitely stronger and better in practically any real circumstance than statue form and I would suggest the former for many tm both in 3 and 15 rune game - at least if they want to try something different from bh, because bh can win easily a 15 runes game - while sf is not terrible for like two or thee races\combo.
Hydra form may be worse in end-game/extended but it's still a single school spell which doesn't slow you against a double school which does so if I somehow was forced to use one in late game I'd still probably lean towards the former and not the latter-

[Berder]

Dragon form is definitely stronger and better in practically any real circumstance than statue form

Unless you have low AC and fight with a weapon (e.g. octopode). I've used statue form far more than dragon form. The extra resistances (rElec, rRot, partial rTorm, poison immunity) help too in specific circumstances.

VS bite happens 100% of the time when your str+dex is at least 49.

[tasonir]

Gimmick form? What?

Dragon form is definitely stronger and better in practically any real circumstance than statue form and I would suggest the former for many tm both in 3 and 15 rune game - at least if they want to try something different from bh, because bh can win easily a 15 runes game - while sf is not terrible for like two or thee races\combo.
Hydra form may be worse in end-game/extended but it's still a single school spell which doesn't slow you against a double school which does so if I somehow was forced to use one in late game I'd still probably lean towards the former and not the latter-

I prefer not dying to dealing 200% of the damage I need to kill things. Maybe I need to give dragon form another chance, but it doesn't leave you with much in the way of either AC or EV. A statue form character can easily pass the AC+EV > 60 check, and I usually pair it with chei to get that > 80. Dragon form will likely leave you somewhere around 40, unless you're doing something extreme. Sure, the damage is higher, and it's +50% hp instead of +30%, but when you're already adding +30% hp I don't think the extra +20% is that much of a gain. I would much rather not suddenly lose large chunks of hp. Also add 20-30 SH if you invest in a shield, and the defenses go even higher... My last game ended at 30/43/32 defenses, while not in statue form - didn't cast it for the escape. Statue form would have been around 44ac, same ev/sh. You don't take much damage at all, resist torment, and have bonus HP. Dragon form only does one of those things. Granted, you're slowed, but I don't find that tends to bother me much. Maybe it's the Chei synergy? Statue form certainly isn't as appealing if you don't have the stats for it....

[Sandman25]

Dragon Form is great vs OoF who does not care about your AC/EV that much. HP boost and extra damage are more important then.

[celem]

VS will steamroll everything really, its a lot of fun.

As said, fast weapons. If you really dont want shortblade then take fast versions of whatever you use. I did whip then dwhip because I found the vamp brands (and then elec dwhip for extended) All about the bite, its gotta go round the clock to fuel your manashield which compensates the poor HP.

Regen+ is an awesome intrinsic. VS regen like crazy, it ramps up as you level, stack egos and learn the spell if you can for truly insane levels of HP regen to go with your rapid bite.

If you add deity healing like makhleb this becomes a very tough character, if he then finds a vamp weapon you would impress me by getting him killed. My average 3 runer takes some 85k turns, my best around 70k. My VSFi is my highest ever score by some margin and took 15 in some 87k...its a juggernaut of awesome if you get the right gear on him and powerful in random junk

You need nothing else, everything will die. Didnt take conjurations, didnt invest in evoke, just batter everything to bits. You have built-in antimagic, which will even neutralise OoFs and leave them unable to mutate or cast, they just sit and watch as you chew them apart.

[Rast]

My experience with melee vine stalkers is that they are easy mode. Go short blades, get your quick blade gift, kill dudes, win.

The regen + spirit shield + vampiric bite (that works against everything, unlike actual vampiric weapons) more than makes up for the lower HP. The inability to heal from pots/wand is annoying, but can be worked around. You can also use potions of mana to heal with, though they're rare.

You definitely want to pump evocations harder than you normally would, both because it gives more effective HP and HP regen, and because the "vampiric" bite only applies to the mana part of your HP pool. Evocables in recent versions are awesome, so it's not wasted at all.

[and into]

VS do not particularly struggle to get AC and EV (certainly not to the extent octopode does) so statue form probably isn't too great for them, and even if it is, hanging your recommendation for a build on a spell that is not in the starting book and which is level 6 is pretty bad.

Spider form and ice form both suppress VS anti-magic bite, and so that is a very major point against VSTm.

[tasonir]

I merely said that 90% of transmuters want statue form or blade hands, which is my opinion and I realize there are people who like dragon form more than I do, but I don't think most transmuters should use it. I'd wager that blade hands is probably better for more characters than statue form is, but I'm also something of a defense-oriented player, so I use statue form somewhat more often. And I do 15 rune a fair amount of transmuters, which certainly favors statue. That said, I've had plenty of characters never find statue form and who stayed monks all the way to the end, like this one.

It's also usually a good idea to get blade hands going first, and then transition into statue form later, assuming you have access to both, because statue form is expensive. Rushing it can be tricky. Chei int does help to speed it up, as well as any wizardry sources you may have.

@sandman: I've never found orbs of fire that tough when you have rF:

  Code:

75907 | Zot:5    | Entered Level 5 of the Realm of Zot
 75961 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 75977 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76147 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 76154 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 76173 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76179 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76182 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76183 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76187 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76188 | Zot:5    | tasonir: ooo, nice 5 ! hit
 76189 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76190 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76196 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76207 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76214 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76224 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76230 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76347 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76351 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 76353 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76355 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 76359 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 76366 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 76374 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76376 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76378 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76382 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76384 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76389 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire
 76390 | Zot:5    | tasonir: Man that's a lot of orbs of fire
 76511 | Zot:5    | Got the Orb of Zot
 76558 | Zot:5    | Arrhythmia: seriously
 76572 | Zot:5    | Noticed an ancient lich
 76575 | Zot:5    | Noticed an orb of fire
 76578 | Zot:5    | Killed an ancient lich
 76581 | Zot:5    | Killed an orb of fire

Statue form does so much damage that you can often kill them in 2-3 hits, although bad rolls could extend that quite a bit, as we all know how much crawl loves to roll 0 for damage. Still, there are several entries in that log where an orb was killed 3 turns after being noticed. This is from my last MiTm^Chei, yavp here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=16214

[tasonir]

Can't check now but I'm pretty sure forms disable their bite so actually tm is one of the worst choice for a VS.
Sure, bh doesn't block it, but I wouldn't suggest to anyone to play an hard background which also blocks race's strongest power (making it certainly quite shitty) until mid game

This is false about the forms that actually matter:



Spider form, ice form are for losers (or octopodes).

[Sandman25]

tasonir
2-3 hits in statue form mean Orb of Fire can attack you 4-8 times (provided OoF is already adjacent) and every attack can deal up to 64 damage (fireball does 3d43 ignoring both EV and GDR)
See viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11907&p=166694#p166961 for some unlucky roll examples.

[and into]

I have very rarely used dragon form, myself, either. Blade hands has always been sufficient. Tm is kind of cool that way, you get all the transmutation spells you would ever need in your starting book. Other than that, pick up some support spells as they become available and pump UC/dodging/fighting. But then I also have never fought an orb of fire on D1.

Anyway, VSBe (unsurprising) going short blades (perhaps surprising or non-intuitive) is extremely strong. You get a chance to bite on every attack, so faster weapons become more appealing, and Trog is basically the only way to give good chances of a quick blade on a reasonable time line. Plus, you know, berserk and BiA and Trog's Hand.

[tasonir]

tasonir
2-3 hits in statue form mean Orb of Fire can attack you 4-8 times (provided OoF is already adjacent) and every attack can deal up to 64 damage (fireball does 3d43 ignoring both EV and GDR)
See viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11907&p=166694#p166961 for some unlucky roll examples.

3 hits in statue form ~ 30 aut, which means 4.5 attacks from an OOF, not 8. *

Given how crawl rolls damage, unlucky rolls are always possible, yet fairly rare. Worst case numbers are always huge - quicksilver dragons can two-turn nearly any character that encounters them (60 irresistable damage x 2 in one turn, then another 60 next turn). The average case is far, far lower than the worst possible, which is something that bothers me, but that's how it's always been. Also, they can attempt to mutate instead of deal damage, which lowers their average somewhat.

In my experience statue form will take them out rather quickly, assuming you can get up close. One pip of rF is okay, but if you have rF++ they become dramatically easy. I can't recall having trouble with single orbs of fire with rF++, but obviously if you have a larger group and have been fighting draconians, etc, it can go downhill. The log from my minotaur was one of the largest swarms of OOF's I've seen (killed 14 total, 12 on zot:5), and statue form handled them all with grace and ease. Certainly there was some luck involved, but average rolls against that character result in taking nearly no damage at all... About 40 ac/ev, 30 sh (I don't think you can block bolt or fireball?) rF++. Kill orbs in 3-4 rounds.

Pendantic mode: At 27 skill your attack delay is .5, which means .75 in statue form, but if you get the .1 from a shield, that's a final speed of .9. So you'll swing at 7, 8, or 9 aut. All are less than 1 turn. I round up to 1 turn because I usually have around 22-24 unarmed for zot:5, although if you take it all the way to 27 then it's a fair amount less.

[njvack]

You can dodge bolt of fire; fireball is a guaranteed hit.

[Sandman25]

Yes, I forgot in my calculations that UC will be maxed.

[and into]

This is getting wildly off-topic. (If you can get Tms to the point of the game in which you can have ~24 skill levels in unarmed combat, you do not need advice!)

@WingedEspeon: tasonir loves Unarmed Combat and is skilled at playing Tms, so the fact that *he* can succeed with VSTm does not mean that it is a strong combo overall. There are no particular "synergies" for VSTm, and at least a few meaningful conflicts. Give it a spin if you are curious but I would not sink a lot of time into it if your goal is to play a strong vine stalker background.

In terms of more general strategy, I would say that you definitely want to incorporate melee as VS, because your anti-magic bite triggers on melee attacks and it is strong, and it gives you MP when you connect, which can be used for more spells, and also doubles for protection because you have innate magic shield.

Have you been having problems with VS? What have you been trying?

[Lasty]

As many have pointed out, VS is very strong as long as you make use of your bite. As such, here are things that are stronger on a VS:

* +Str/Dex effects, because your chance of biting on any given attack is (Str+Dex)/50.
* Fighting skill, because it increases your accuracy with your bite, and because you really need the extra HP.
* Spellcasting, Evo, and Invo skill, and +MP items, because your mana pool is also your health pool, and the bigger you make it the more you can heal with your bite.
* Attack speed, for more bites; don't overrate this too much, tho. Big weapons are still very good.

Magic is quite good for VS, particularly things you cast at the start of a fight before replentishing your magic with a bite attack; it also lets you get extra mileage out of Spellcasting skill. For those reasons, charms and summons in particular are especially good, tho pretty much all other magic can be useful as well. Being able to fill up your MP gauge to get more casts as well as more HP is very good.

VS dies when it gets into a situation where it cannot bite but can take damage, so be particularly wary of those situations and plan accordingly.

[tasonir]

A berserker who puts their level up stats into dex is the best way to play 90% of races but I'd be at too high of a risk of losing the game through Ctrl+Q, so I suppose I don't recommend it as much as its strength would suggest

I would suggest that on VS, a race crippled through low hp, playing the one background that has access to spells which give a fairly permanent boost to hp is a good synergy. Berserk does as well, but is a short duration with a slow afterwards, where as you can stay in forms indefinitely if you renew them. More than just AC+EV, HP is a critical defense and the one most lacking on VS - ice form, statue form, hydra form, dragon form take care of that. I tend to prefer statue, but hey, take your pick.

That said I absolutely agree that getting to high end forms will always remain an issue. Level 6 dual school spells that you have to actually find first are not something that will help you with the early game. This is imho the main mark against my transmuters - you won't start out overpowered.

[lifecoder]

* Spellcasting, Evo, and Invo skill, and +MP items, because your mana pool is also your health pool, and the bigger you make it the more you can heal with your bite.

Shouldn't there be 'or' like "Spellcasting or Evo or Invo"? If I get it right the final boost only take the highest one of those three skills, so no need to train other if you don't actually plan to use them.

[advil]

Edit: oops, I didn't notice that this was an old thread, sorry. I blame the weird thanks vs. message date bug. (Lifecoder: I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, it should be or.)

VS is very strong. For whatever reason I've ended played a bunch of unarmed VS, without transmuting, and they're still extremely strong, the bite is just so good. So worrying about forms is a bit of a red herring IMO, VS don't need them. In particular I have two wins that are VSMo of dith, hybrid unarmed + stabbing. First one was meleebug, and was an unstoppable powerhouse, the second I wanted to replicate the character without meleebug and it was still pretty unstoppable, just with a bit more normal start. So that's a combo that I'd recommend as fun. I think that focusing on short blades is likely even easier, VSGl of dith with shortblades would be great for example.

One tip I haven't seen here is that it's very easy to max out the regeneration rate when playing a VS, as I understand the math one regen item will do it on an XL12 VS, or two items before that. This is (again, only if I correctly understand the math, you never know with crawl) the equivalent of always having the spell running. I haven't found the hunger cost to be a problem.

Edit: this is probably all wrong, see below. But you can get very high regeneration on a VS.

[byrel]

Is there a regen max? TIL.

[advil]

Is there a regen max? TIL.

I actually didn't realize it when I was playing said vinestalkers but it looks to me like regen rate should max out at 1hp per 10aut. The regen spell should hit this max no matter what, and otherwise it takes a few items. (Or somewhere in the range of 500max HP according to wiki.)

Edit: you know, maybe I'm wrong about this (and was right before). The actual code is at https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/a893f3e28b079ccd03644fba9c6b34bbdfc8e98e/crawl-ref/source/player-reacts.cc#L1233. I don't fully understand how this works but if you can get your regeneration amount over 200 then you will definitely get 2hp per 10aut. It looks like the carryover is preserved to the next turn, too, so you don't lose regen points.

So then: the VS advice is, get as much regen as you can!

[byrel]

That sounds like a plan. I'm going to try for a TLA Vs with regen amulet and a vamp quickblade... Probably start Trog so I get an early quickblade and Trog's hand.

[Siegurt]

Is there a regen max? TIL.

I actually didn't realize it when I was playing said vinestalkers but it looks to me like regen rate should max out at 1hp per 10aut. The regen spell should hit this max no matter what, and otherwise it takes a few items. (Or somewhere in the range of 500max HP according to wiki.)

Edit: you know, maybe I'm wrong about this (and was right before). The actual code is at https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/a893f3e28b079ccd03644fba9c6b34bbdfc8e98e/crawl-ref/source/player-reacts.cc#L1233. I don't fully understand how this works but if you can get your regeneration amount over 200 then you will definitely get 2hp per 10aut. It looks like the carryover is preserved to the next turn, too, so you don't lose regen points.

So then: the VS advice is, get as much regen as you can!

Yes, you were incorrect, there is not a max.

[byrel]

And so the significantly suboptimal saga begins:

  Code:

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1882-g750edc8 (webtiles) character file.

pblur the Spry (Vine Stalker Berserker)            Turns: 27503, Time: 01:34:14

Health: 93/95      AC: 13    Str: 19    XL:     16   Next: 92%
Magic:  26/26      EV: 29    Int:  7    God:    Trog [******]
Gold:   1498       SH: 11    Dex: 27    Spells: 0 memorised, 15 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     F - +7 quick blade (vamp) {!w}
rCold  . . .     Clarity  +     t - +0 troll leather armour {regen}
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   .     V - +0 shield
rPois  .         Gourm    .     e - +1 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   +     n - +0 cloak
rCorr  .         Warding  .     I - +2 pair of gloves {archery}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     r - +1 pair of boots
MR     ++...                    s - amulet of clarity {Clar, !d}
Stlth  ++........               a - +5 ring of dexterity
                                H - ring of magical power {MP+9}

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: fangs 3, regeneration 3, magic shield, antimagic bite, no device heal 3, rot
immunity
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion


You are on level 1 of the Swamp.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are full.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 28 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 3007 gold pieces.
You have spent 1509 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 F - a +7 vampiric quick blade (weapon) {!w}
   (You acquired it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
Armour
 e - a +1 hat (worn)
   (You took it off Gastronok on level 11 of the Dungeon)
 n - a +0 cloak (worn)
   (You took it off Crazy Yiuf on level 2 of the Dungeon)
 r - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
   (You found it on level 3 of the Dungeon)
 t - a +0 troll leather armour (worn) {regen}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Swamp)
 I - a +2 pair of gloves of archery (worn)
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 V - a +0 shield (worn)
   (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)
Rods
 g - a +2 rod of ignition (12/12) {!a}
   (You acquired it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
Jewellery
 a - a +5 ring of dexterity (right hand)
   (You found it on level 5 of the Lair of Beasts)
 b - an uncursed ring of protection from fire {rF+, !d}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 p - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion {rCorr, !d}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)
 s - an amulet of clarity (around neck) {Clar, !d}
   (You found it on level 15 of the Dungeon)
 w - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand {Gourm, !d}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Dungeon)
 E - an uncursed ring of teleportation {+/*tele, !d}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
 H - a ring of magical power (left hand) {MP+9}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 W - an uncursed ring of stealth {Stlth+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Lair of Beasts)
 Y - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation {rMut, !d}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)
 Z - a +3 ring of protection
   (You found it on level 1 of the Swamp)
Magical devices
 m - a wand of teleportation (2)
   (You found it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 v - a wand of lightning
   (You found it on level 13 of the Dungeon)
 J - a wand of cold
   (You found it on level 6 of the Dungeon)
 L - a wand of fireball
   (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)
 O - a wand of invisibility (4)
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
 Q - a wand of draining
   (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)
Scrolls
 d - 2 scrolls of magic mapping {!r}
 f - 4 scrolls of recharging
 h - 2 scrolls of fog
 i - 4 scrolls of immolation {!r}
 k - 9 scrolls of teleportation
 o - 6 scrolls of blinking {!r}
 y - 2 scrolls of fear
 B - 8 scrolls of remove curse
 D - 8 scrolls of identify
 U - a scroll of vulnerability {!r!r}
 X - 2 scrolls of holy word {!r}
Potions
 q - 7 potions of might
 u - 10 potions of curing
 z - 3 potions of invisibility
 A - 2 potions of haste
 G - 2 potions of resistance
 K - 4 potions of lignification {!q}
 M - 3 potions of cancellation
 N - 2 potions of brilliance
 P - 3 potions of agility
 T - 2 potions of flight
Miscellaneous
 R - an ornate deck of changes {Fortitude}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)
Comestibles
 c - 6 bread rations {@e1}
 l - 3 chunks of flesh {@w0}
 x - 12 meat rations {@e2}
 C - 64 fruits
 S - 2 slices of pizza


   Skills:
 - Level 15.2 Fighting
 - Level 14.0 Short Blades
 - Level 7.3 Armour
 - Level 16.0 Dodging
 + Level 4.2 Shields


You have 15 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:6            Lair (8/8) D:10
  Swamp (1/4) Lair:4       Spider (0/4) Lair:6        Slime (0/6) Lair:6
    Orc (4/4) D:11            Elf (0/3) Orc:3        Vaults (0/5) D:13
 Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
The Shining One

Shops:
D:12 (**?(   Orc:1 !   Orc:2 :   Orc:4 [%[*

Portals:
Hell: Lair:8


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have razor-sharp teeth.
You regenerate.
When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves.
Your bite disrupts and absorbs the magic of your enemies.
Potions and wands cannot restore your health.
You are immune to rotting.


Message History

You hit the thorn hunter. You bite the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter's magic leaks into the air.
You drain its magic.
You puncture the thorn hunter!
You bite the thorn hunter, but do no damage.
The thorn hunter completely misses you. You block the thorn hunter's attack.
You hit the thorn hunter but do no damage.
You bite the thorn hunter, but do no damage.
You hit the thorn hunter. Your bite misses the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter misses you. The thorn hunter completely misses you.
You puncture the thorn hunter!
You bite the thorn hunter, but do no damage.
You hit the thorn hunter but do no damage.
Your bite misses the thorn hunter. The thorn hunter hits you.
The thorn hunter completely misses you.
You take 5 damage, and have 90/95 hp. You now have 25/26 mp.
You hit the thorn hunter. You bite the thorn hunter!
The thorn hunter's magic leaks into the air.
You drain its magic. You feel invigorated.
You puncture the thorn hunter! Your bite misses the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter fires a volley of thorns at you.
The volley of thorns misses you.
You hit the thorn hunter but do no damage.
MP restored: 26
You puncture the thorn hunter! You bite the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter's magic leaks into the air.
You drain its magic. The thorn hunter barely misses you.
You block the thorn hunter's attack.
You hit the thorn hunter.
You bite the thorn hunter, but do no damage.
You hit the thorn hunter. Your bite misses the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter hits you. The thorn hunter misses you.
You now have 25/26 mp.
You hit the thorn hunter.
You bite the thorn hunter, but do no damage.
You hit the thorn hunter but do no damage.
The thorn hunter barely misses you. The thorn hunter hits you.
You hit the thorn hunter but do no damage.
You bite the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter's magic leaks into the air.
You drain its magic. You feel invigorated.
You take 3 damage, and have 88/95 hp.
MP restored: 26
You hit the thorn hunter.
You bite the thorn hunter, but do no damage.
You block the thorn hunter's attack. The thorn hunter barely misses you.
You hit the thorn hunter.
You closely miss the thorn hunter. You bite the thorn hunter!
The thorn hunter's magic leaks into the air.
You drain its magic.
You hit the thorn hunter but do no damage.
The thorn hunter barely misses you. The thorn hunter hits you!
You take 12 damage, and have 77/95 hp. You now have 22/26 mp.
You hit the thorn hunter but do no damage.
You bite the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter's magic leaks into the air.
You drain its magic. You feel invigorated.
You hit the thorn hunter but do no damage.
Your bite misses the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter hits you but does no damage.
The thorn hunter misses you.
You hit the thorn hunter. You bite the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter's magic leaks into the air.
You drain its magic. You feel invigorated.
MP restored: 26
You hit the thorn hunter but do no damage.
Your bite misses the thorn hunter. The thorn hunter completely misses you.
You block the thorn hunter's attack.
You hit the thorn hunter. Your bite misses the thorn hunter.
You closely miss the thorn hunter. The thorn hunter misses you.
You block the thorn hunter's attack.
You hit the thorn hunter. You bite the thorn hunter.
The thorn hunter's magic leaks into the air.
You drain its magic.
You destroy the thorn hunter!
Your Shields skill increases to level 4!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
No target in view!
You regained 2 hp, and now have 82/95 hp.
You regained 2 hp, and now have 87/95 hp.
You enter the shallow water.
Moving in this stuff is going to be slow.
You regained 2 hp, and now have 90/95 hp.
You regained 2 hp, and now have 93/95 hp.

..≈≈≈≈≈≈.♣♣≈.≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈..
..≈≈≈≈≈≈.≈.†≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈..≈
≈...≈≈≈≈.[≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈≈...≈
≈...≈≈≈≈..≈≈≈≈..§.≈♣♣♣
.≈≈≈≈≈≈≈..≈≈≈...≈♣♣♣
.§≈≈≈.≈≈≈.≈≈≈≈.≈♣♣
..≈≈..≈≈≈≈≈≈≈....♣
....≈.......≈♣.≈.♣
 ....♣≈@.≈♣♣♣♣♣≈♣♣
 .≈.♣♣≈...♣    ♣♣
 ♣♣♣ ♣♣..≈♣
      ♣♣♣≈≈.
        ≈≈≈..
        ♣..≈♣♣
         ♣♣♣♣


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  Gastronok (D:11)
  2 thorn hunters (Swamp:1)
  Roxanne (D:15)
  A frost giant (IceCv)
  The ghost of gilsham the Cleaver, a powerful FoFi (Lair:7)
  Azrael (Orc:4)
  3 dire elephants (Lair:8)
  3 vault guards (D:13)
  Josephine (Lair:6)
  A rakshasa (D:15)
  2 tengu warriors
  2 hydras
  A centaur warrior (D:13)
  5 death yaks
  An ogre mage (D:15)
  An alligator (Swamp:1)
  5 orc high priests (Orc:4)
  A skeletal warrior (D:15)
  A sun demon (Lair:8)
  3 unseen horrors
  4 wizards
  7 hill giants
  3 necromancers
  3 orc knights (Orc:4)
  5 ugly things
  A stone giant zombie (D:15)
  A phantasmal warrior (D:15)
  3 griffons
  3 cyclopes
  2 centaur zombies
  A sixfirhy (Lair:8)
  18 elephants
  A toenail golem (Volcano)
  4 gargoyles
  A fire giant skeleton (D:15)
  A smoke demon (Volcano)
  3 black mambas
  19 spiny frogs
  4 orange demons (Lair:8)
  2 fire drakes (Lair:8)
  11 komodo dragons
  A yaktaur zombie (D:15)
  A red devil (Volcano)
  A tengu conjurer (D:14)
  A guardian mummy (D:15)
  15 polar bears
  A harpy zombie (D:15)
  18 blink frogs
  3 blue devils (Lair:8)
  3 two-headed ogres
  14 slime creatures
  A hornet zombie (D:14)
  3 trolls
  Grinder (D:3)
  A boulder beetle (Lair:5)
  3 deep elf magi
  A trapdoor spider (D:13)
  An ice dragon skeleton (D:15)
  3 shadows
  A spriggan (Swamp:1)
  4 wraiths
  18 humans (D:13)
  4 wyverns
  3 fire elementals (Orc:4)
  100 yaks
  8 vampire mosquitoes
  A steam dragon (D:9)
  2 basilisks
  2 hungry ghosts
  A fire bat (Volcano)
  26 wolves
  12 hippogriffs
  15 swamp worms
  2 wargs (D:9)
  A mottled dragon (D:15)
  Edmund (D:5)
  6 hell hounds
  32 orc warriors
  2 black bears
  23 water moccasins
  2 swamp drakes (Swamp:1)
  3 ice beasts
  9 porcupines
  7 necrophages
  2 wasps
  14 ogres
  An eye of draining (D:14)
  4 sky beasts
  13 centaurs
  17 crocodiles
  A phantom (D:11)
  5 big kobolds
  18 giant frogs
  A wyvern zombie (D:14)
  2 gnoll sergeants
  2 scorpions
  16 wights
  6 killer bees (D:11)
  A wyvern skeleton (D:14)
  6 electric eels
  A vampire bat (D:6)
  3 hounds
  30 orc wizards
  3 crimson imps
  4 lava snakes (Volcano)
  Crazy Yiuf (D:2)
  5 centaur skeletons
  A giant frog zombie (D:12)
  7 jellies
  35 orc priests
  3 giant frog skeletons
  Jessica (D:15)
  7 iguanas
  Natasha (thrice) (D:2)
  6 hell rats (Lair:6)
  A quasit (D:6)
  11 sheep
  13 worker ants
  2 hound skeletons
  A hound zombie (D:8)
  3 mummies (D:12)
  17 gnolls
  19 adders
  31 river rats
  6 shadow imps
  2 oozes
  5 adder skeletons
  9 worms
  5 giant geckos
  183 orcs
  15 bats
  A bat skeleton (D:6)
  3 bat zombies (D:6)
  6 giant cockroaches
  6 goblins
  6 hobgoblins
  15 jackals
  A giant cockroach zombie (D:3)
  A giant gecko skeleton (D:4)
  2 giant newts
  2 jackal skeletons
  30 kobolds
  5 quokkas
  10 rats
  3 plants
1124 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  2 orc knights (Orc:4)
  A slime creature (D:12)
  A hellwing (Lair:8)
  A red devil (Lair:8)
  2 blink frogs (Lair:5)
  A deep elf mage (D:12)
  An ogre (D:12)
  6 orc warriors (Orc:4)
  3 killer bees (D:12)
  5 orc priests (Orc:4)
  2 orcs (Orc:4)
25 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  2 orcs (Orc:4)
  3 briar patches (Swamp:1)
  23 fungi
  11 plants
39 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1188 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | pblur the Vine Stalker Berserker began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 2/2
   102 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Short Blades
   153 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 11/16 MP: 3/3
   455 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 15/19 MP: 4/4
   833 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Short Blades
   897 | D:2      | Acquired Trog's second power
   917 | D:2      | Noticed Natasha
   925 | D:2      | Killed Natasha
   925 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 16/23 MP: 3/5
  1056 | D:2      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  1119 | D:2      | Noticed Natasha
  1126 | D:2      | Killed Natasha
  1133 | D:2      | Noticed Natasha
  1149 | D:2      | Killed Natasha
  1149 | D:2      | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
  1431 | D:2      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  1438 | D:2      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  1438 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 27/27 MP: 6/6
  1723 | D:3      | Gained mutation: You heal very quickly. [Vine Stalker growth]
  1723 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/32 MP: 5/7
  1736 | D:3      | Reached skill level 6 in Short Blades
  1811 | D:3      | Noticed Grinder
  1863 | D:3      | Paralysed by Grinder for 4 turns
  1875 | D:3      | Killed Grinder
  1875 | D:3      | Reached skill level 7 in Short Blades
  1875 | D:3      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 26/35 MP: 8/8
  2189 | D:3      | Noticed a hippogriff
  2198 | D:3      | Killed a hippogriff
  2718 | D:4      | Reached skill level 8 in Short Blades
  2739 | D:4      | HP: 9/35 [orc priest/divine providence (9)]
  2886 | D:4      | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
  3200 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3228 | D:5      | Gained mutation: You have razor-sharp teeth. [Vine Stalker growth]
  3228 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 31/39 MP: 9/9
  3275 | D:5      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  3357 | D:5      | Acquired Trog's third power
  3357 | D:5      | Reached skill level 9 in Short Blades
  3505 | D:5      | Noticed a moth of wrath
  3508 | D:5      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  3691 | D:5      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  3706 | D:5      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  3838 | D:5      | Noticed Edmund
  3855 | D:5      | Killed Edmund
  3865 | D:5      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  3908 | D:5      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  4248 | D:6      | Found a shadowy altar of Dithmenos.
  4341 | D:6      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  4361 | D:6      | Reached skill level 10 in Short Blades
  4465 | D:6      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  4724 | D:7      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  4789 | D:7      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  4921 | D:7      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 43/43 MP: 10/10
  5061 | D:7      | Reached skill level 3 in Fighting
  5061 | D:7      | Reached skill level 2 in Dodging
  5476 | D:7      | Reached skill level 3 in Dodging
  5707 | D:8      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  5724 | D:8      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  5811 | D:8      | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
  5967 | D:8      | HP: 12/46 [electric eel/bolt of electricity (6)]
  6137 | D:8      | Reached skill level 4 in Dodging
  6412 | D:8      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  6488 | D:8      | Received a gift from Trog
  6925 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  6931 | D:9      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 44/53 MP: 9/11
  6969 | D:9      | HP: 16/53 [steam dragon (2)]
  6976 | D:9      | Reached skill level 6 in Fighting
  6978 | D:9      | HP: 17/53 [hippogriff (2)]
  7143 | D:9      | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
  7214 | D:9      | Reached skill level 7 in Fighting
  7528 | D:9      | Noticed a hill giant
  7537 | D:9      | Killed a hill giant
  7537 | D:9      | Reached skill level 8 in Fighting
  7537 | D:9      | Reached skill level 7 in Dodging
  7828 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  7864 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 35/60 MP: 10/12
  7925 | D:9      | Reached skill level 2 in Armour
  7960 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
  8300 | D:10     | Reached skill level 3 in Armour
  8394 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
  8404 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
  8404 | D:10     | Reached skill level 9 in Fighting
  8564 | D:10     | Noticed a tengu warrior
  8584 | D:10     | Killed a tengu warrior
  8584 | D:10     | Reached skill level 4 in Armour
  8661 | D:10     | Received a gift from Trog
  8841 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
  9040 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 11 in Short Blades
  9393 | Lair:1   | Gained mutation: You regenerate. [Vine Stalker growth]
  9393 | Lair:1   | Reached XP level 12. HP: 50/67 MP: 3/13
  9692 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 12 in Short Blades
 10654 | Lair:3   | Received a gift from Trog
 11173 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 13 in Short Blades
 11675 | Lair:4   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 11897 | Lair:5   | HP: 21/67 [blink frog (10)]
 12206 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 14 in Short Blades
 12697 | Lair:5   | Identified a scroll of acquirement
 12920 | Lair:5   | HP: 16/100 [boulder beetle (24)]
 12923 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 8 in Dodging
 13256 | Lair:6   | Noticed Josephine
 13271 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 13281 | Lair:5   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 72/72 MP: 14/14
 13455 | Lair:6   | Killed Josephine
 13826 | Lair:6   | Got a slimy ring mail
 13837 | Lair:6   | Identified the +0 ring mail "Qity" {rN+ Str+12 Int-5 Slay-5} (You acquired it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 13969 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 13982 | Lair:6   | Killed a death yak
 14002 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 14003 | Lair:6   | Noticed a death yak
 14023 | Lair:6   | Killed a death yak
 14023 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 9 in Dodging
 14033 | Lair:6   | Killed a death yak
 14095 | Lair:6   | Reached skill level 11 in Fighting
 14159 | Lair:6   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 14169 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Trog
 14464 | Lair:6   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 15381 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 15394 | Lair:7   | Received a gift from Trog
 15400 | Lair:7   | Got a steaming dagger {god gift}
 15403 | Lair:7   | Identified the +8 dagger of Trauma {venom, *Confuse Int+6} (Trog gifted it to you on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
 15531 | Lair:7   | Reached skill level 12 in Fighting
 15627 | Lair:7   | Noticed gilsham's ghost (powerful FoFi)
 15647 | Lair:7   | Killed gilsham's ghost
 15647 | Lair:7   | Reached XP level 14. HP: 80/80 MP: 15/15
 16018 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 16415 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 11 in Dodging
 16607 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 13 in Fighting
 16958 | Lair:8   | Found a burning altar of Makhleb.
 17147 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 17230 | Lair:8   | Found a gateway to Hell.
 17377 | Lair:8   | HP: 26/82 [dire elephant (20)]
 17380 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 12 in Dodging
 17506 | Lair:5   | Noticed a death yak
 17527 | Lair:5   | Killed a death yak
 17839 | D:11     | Noticed Gastronok
 17852 | D:11     | Killed Gastronok
 18058 | D:11     | Reached XP level 15. HP: 86/86 MP: 16/16
 18097 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
 18223 | D:11     | Reached skill level 13 in Dodging
 18516 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 18628 | Orc:1    | Found Ohurchui's Distillery.
 18638 | Orc:1    | Bought a potion of resistance for 110 gold pieces
 18659 | Orc:1    | Found a frozen archway.
 18711 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 18906 | IceCv    | Reached skill level 14 in Dodging
 18948 | IceCv    | Received a gift from Trog
 19222 | IceCv    | Noticed a frost giant
 19261 | IceCv    | Killed a frost giant
 19283 | IceCv    | Reached skill level 15 in Dodging
 19324 | IceCv    | Got a transparent whip
 19325 | IceCv    | Identified the +4 whip "Kuni" {drain, rN+} (You found it in an ice cave)
 20053 | Orc:2    | Found Keloss's Book Shoppe.
 20190 | Orc:3    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 20194 | Orc:3    | Found a dark tunnel.
 20201 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 20209 | Volcano  | Entered a volcano
 20321 | Volcano  | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
 21066 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 21402 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 21480 | Orc:4    | Noticed Azrael
 21631 | Orc:4    | Killed Azrael
 21856 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 21876 | Orc:4    | HP: 21/86 [orc priest/divine providence (11)]
 21894 | Orc:4    | Got an ichor-stained battleaxe {god gift}
 21897 | Orc:4    | Identified the +8 battleaxe of Quamab {chop, rPois rC+ Dex-2 Stlth+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 22205 | Orc:4    | Reached skill level 16 in Dodging
 22252 | Orc:4    | Found Tupawnur's Food Shop.
 22255 | Orc:4    | Found Eprupn's Armour Boutique.
 22256 | Orc:4    | Found Ivusop's Armour Shop.
 22257 | Orc:4    | Found Faet's Assorted Antiques.
 22263 | Orc:4    | Bought a tubular moonstone ring for 160 gold pieces
 22316 | Orc:4    | Bought a +2 pair of gloves of archery for 279 gold pieces
 22708 | D:12     | Received a gift from Trog
 22798 | D:12     | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 22912 | D:12     | Found Wakhla's Assorted Antiques.
 22952 | D:12     | Found Efotre's Assorted Antiques.
 22960 | D:12     | Bought a fizzy dark potion for 24 gold pieces
 22967 | D:12     | Found Osa Rudgh's Weapon Shop.
 23282 | D:12     | Found Nefufu's Magic Scroll Emporium.
 23667 | D:12     | Found Usaymugg's Antique Weapon Shoppe.
 23808 | D:12     | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 936 gold pieces
 23810 | D:12     | Identified a +2 rod of ignition (12/12) (You acquired it on level 12 of the Dungeon)
 23857 | D:13     | Reached XP level 16. HP: 90/92 MP: 17/17
 23976 | D:13     | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
 24320 | D:13     | Reached skill level 14 in Fighting
 24415 | D:13     | Reached skill level 6 in Armour
 24430 | D:13     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 25524 | D:14     | Received a gift from Trog
 25648 | D:15     | Entered Level 15 of the Dungeon
 25772 | D:15     | Found a staircase to the Depths.
 25942 | D:15     | Noticed Roxanne
 25962 | D:15     | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 26052 | D:15     | Killed Roxanne
 26052 | D:15     | Reached skill level 7 in Armour
 26078 | D:15     | Identified Roxanne's Collected Works on Transformation (You took it off Roxanne on level 15 of the Dungeon)
 26093 | D:15     | Got a transparent robe
 26104 | D:15     | Identified the +1 robe of Sin {+Inv rElec rF- rC+} (You found it on level 15 of the Dungeon)
 26516 | D:15     | Noticed Jessica
 26530 | D:15     | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
 26532 | D:15     | Killed Jessica
 26537 | D:15     | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
 26996 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 27021 | Swamp:1  | Reached skill level 2 in Shields
 27024 | Swamp:1  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 27199 | Swamp:1  | Killed a thorn hunter
 27258 | Swamp:1  | Reached skill level 3 in Shields
 27380 | Swamp:1  | Received a gift from Trog
 27456 | Swamp:1  | Noticed a thorn hunter
 27493 | Swamp:1  | Killed a thorn hunter
 27493 | Swamp:1  | Reached skill level 4 in Shields


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |    71 |    95 |   518 |   506 |       |       ||  1190
       Rapier            |       |       |       |   438 |       |       ||   438
       Quick blade       |       |       |       |    55 |  2412 |   875 ||  3342
Invok: Berserk           |       |     1 |     1 |     9 |    10 |     2 ||    23
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |       |     1 |     2 |     5 |     3 ||    11
       Trog's Hand       |       |       |     1 |     5 |    15 |     5 ||    26
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |       |     1 |     6 |       ||     7
  Use: Scroll            |     1 |     1 |    16 |    13 |    11 |     5 ||    47
       Potion            |       |       |     2 |     1 |     1 |       ||     4
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Invisible         |       |       |       |     7 |       |       ||     7
       Distracted        |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 ||     3
  Eat: Chunk             |       |     4 |    42 |    35 |    50 |    11 ||   142

Table legend:
 A = Turns spent in this place as a percentage of turns spent in the
     entire game.
 B = Non-inter-level travel turns spent in this place as a percentage of
     non-inter-level travel turns spent in the entire game.
 C = Inter-level travel turns spent in this place as a percentage of
     turns spent in this place.
 D = Turns resting spent in this place as a percentage of non-inter-level
     travel turns spent in this place.
 E = Turns spent auto-exploring this place as a percentage of
     non-inter-level travel turns spent in this place.
 F = Non-inter-level travel turns spent in this place divided by the
     number of levels of this place that you've seen.

                   A       B       C       D       E               F
               +-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+----------------------
         Total | 100.0 | 100.0 |   0.3 |   1.7 |   4.2 |         560.9
       Dungeon |  49.1 |  49.1 |   0.3 |   1.6 |   4.9 |         550.8
          Lair |  29.4 |  29.4 |   0.2 |   2.5 |   3.4 |         619.2
         Swamp |   2.2 |   2.2 |   0.0 |   2.1 |   2.1 |         377.0
  Orcish Mines |  13.4 |  13.4 |   0.7 |   0.9 |   5.0 |         563.2
      Ice Cave |   4.4 |   4.5 |   0.0 |   1.1 |   0.4 |         749.0
       Volcano |   1.4 |   1.4 |   0.0 |   0.9 |   1.3 |         231.0
               +-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+----------------------

Table legend:
 A = Kills in this place as a percentage of kills in entire the game.
 B = Kills by you in this place as a percentage of kills by you in
     the entire game.
 C = Kills by friends in this place as a percentage of kills by
     friends in the entire game.
 D = Other kills in this place as a percentage of other kills in the
     entire game.
 E = Experience gained in this place as a percentage of experience
     gained in the entire game.
 F = Experience gained in this place divided by the number of levels of
     this place that you have seen.

                   A       B       C       D       E               F
               +-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+----------------------
         Total | 100.0 | 100.0 | 100.0 |  -nan | 100.0 |        5915.3
       Dungeon |  45.5 |  46.0 |  24.0 |  -nan |  39.3 |        4650.2
          Lair |  26.6 |  26.8 |  16.0 |  -nan |  38.4 |        8516.5
         Swamp |   1.6 |   1.6 |   0.0 |  -nan |   4.7 |        8427.0
  Orcish Mines |  21.6 |  20.7 |  60.0 |  -nan |   9.7 |        4286.5
      Ice Cave |   4.1 |   4.2 |   0.0 |  -nan |   7.0 |       12346.0
       Volcano |   0.7 |   0.7 |   0.0 |  -nan |   0.9 |        1654.0
               +-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+----------------------


Currently I have 220+ regen with trog's hand on, so it's 2 per movement most of the time, and better than 0.67 per swing of my quick blade. When I get an amulet of regen, I'll be up to 0.8 regen per QB swing, and 265 regen. I would need to have 300 HP to up that to 1 regen per QB hit.

On the other hand... I also have that vampiric QB and the vampiric bite and general MP regen to keep me going.

[agentgt]

Here is what I found works exceedingly well for VS (which isn't really saying much since VS seem to do well regardless):

* In my opinion Zin is the best VS god (which includes an occasional swap out for tso for weapon and certain branches).
* I don't think a two handed weapon is worth it for VS so you should train shields guilt free
* You apparently cannot die if you have mana left... something to remember.
* I don't think attack magic is good for VS
* Stealth seems to be good for VS since taking on a bunch of enemies is fairly dangerous given low HP.. also stabbing.
* You might want to do human branches over animal branches first. Spider has been pretty awful for my VS'.
* VS in my opinion are one of the strongest extended game species.... consider doing tomb or tartarus before or instead of slime.

You want to attack fast so I find either UC, sblades and whips worthwhile. Sblades stack particularly well with zin and then switch to eudemon blade later.

[Sar]

One-handers like lajatangs can be pretty good. Attack magic can be pretty good. Unarmed isn't actually very fast for a solid part of the game. I'm not sure why'd you ever call VS extra-good in extended though, they don't really have any special protection against torment and hellfire?

[byrel]

Probably just because antimagic is good in extended.

[Sar]

I guess.

[agentgt]

One-handers like lajatangs can be pretty good. Attack magic can be pretty good. Unarmed isn't actually very fast for a solid part of the game. I'm not sure why'd you ever call VS extra-good in extended though, they don't really have any special protection against torment and hellfire?

Antimagic. Also there is a god that replenishes HP and MP. I was shocked how powerful TSO is with VS.

I would probably not pick UC with VS unless I started with Oka. UC is actually very fast with Oka.

Sar have you actually tried VS in tomb? Its unbelievable how good that species is at trashing mummies.

[Sar]

Apparently I did 15-rune a VS once. I don't really consider Tomb to be terribly hard, though. Well, not the hardest part of the postend, anyway.

[agentgt]

Apparently I did 15-rune a VS once. I don't really consider Tomb to be terribly hard, though. Well, not the hardest part of the postend, anyway.

That is a very good *fast* lajatang with TSO and you had zero conjurations.
Lasty apparently also chose Zin for his VS 15 rune (and did some random summoning defensive magic... I guess if your calling that attack magic... your right). I also find it amusing that he dropped his primary weapons before winning so we can't see what he really used to kill most things (based on his stabbing I'm guessing a sblade).

In fact I had hard time finding a good reasonable turn count 15 rune win heavy on conjurations for VS. I'm not saying it can't be done (VS is a strong species). I just don't think its as easy biting and reciting

[Sar]

Well I also won a Vine Stalker Necromancer and a Vine Stalker Conjurer, only 3 runes though - I almost never did postend back then. The turncounts are awful but all my turncounts are.

[nago]

I never played VS in extended, but I find them excellent with offensive magic: you cast until you need\want\mp are depleted, then you bite until you want and restart the process.

Certainly, you need to be more careful than usual about how and when you spend mp, as a VS with low mp is quite vulnerable - but they also regain them back very quickly, so it isn't really dangerous as long as you don't cast in the very wrong moment.

[Lasty]

Lasty apparently also chose Zin for his VS 15 rune (and did some random summoning defensive magic... I guess if your calling that attack magic... your right). I also find it amusing that he dropped his primary weapons before winning so we can't see what he really used to kill most things (based on his stabbing I'm guessing a sblade).

  Code:

Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Dagger            |   142 |   278 |   291 |   873 |  1542 |  1620 |  1911 |  1592 |       ||  8249
       Unarmed           |       |       |       |       |       |    42 |       |   108 |       ||   150
       Quick blade       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |   254 |  8489 ||  8743
 Fire: Blowgun           |     3 |     9 |    87 |    30 |    28 |       |       |       |       ||   157
       Sling             |       |       |    42 |     7 |       |       |       |       |       ||    49
       Longbow           |       |       |       |       |     5 |       |       |       |       ||     5
Throw: Dart              |       |     6 |       |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     6
 Cast: Abjuration        |       |       |       |       |     3 |     7 |     2 |     1 |     2 ||    15
       Apportation       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |     5 ||     6
       Shadow Creatures  |       |       |       |       |       |    18 |    18 |     7 |     9 ||    52
       Monstrous Menager |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     8 |    16 |    38 ||    64
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     4 |    13 |    12 ||    30
       Ozocubu's Armour  |       |       |       |       |       |       |     5 |    32 |     2 ||    39
       Blink             |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     6 |    23 ||    30
       Flight            |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     1 |    58 ||    60
       Haste             |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    26 ||    26
       Cure Poison       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     8 ||     8
       Stoneskin         |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     5 ||     5
       Control Teleport  |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
       Summon Butterflie |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     3 ||     3
       Bolt of Cold      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
       Summon Guardian G |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1

Looks like I was using a quickblade. I don't recall the brand. It looks like I toyed with switching to a great sword given this and the 14.8 levels of long blades: Identified the +8,+7 great sword of Eternal Vigilance {speed, rElec rC++ SInv} (You found it on level 4 of the Depths)

[tasonir]

I have a reasonably good score with VSNe (http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 041904.txt), and I'd call them downright excellent in extended. The reason is primarily regeneration. As there's damage that goes through ac and ev, you can't always sit at 90+% life, so how fast you regenerate life is a key issue. VS base regeneration, plus their ability to share it with their mana, and finally restore their mana, adds up to a lot of effective healing. They tend to take less from torment due to a smaller hp pool, although to really abuse their strengths in extended, use statue form as I did.

I picked Ne to get regeneration from the start of the game, and stacked it with VS base regen throughout the entire game.

[agentgt]

Yeah I agree on the regen for extended. I'm not sure why I made a big deal about the antimagic when it really is the regen for the most part (and the other reasons you mentioned).

I did VSCK http://crawl.berotato.org/crawl/morgue/ ... 142540.txt . It was pretty shitty VS hi-score and I would imagine yermak or someone is going to gaffle it from me. Part of the problem with non-chei short blade is the massive turn count it creates (especially quickblades) since it takes longer (turn wise) to kill stuff.

[tasonir]

Yeah it's hard to get a high score with a quick blade, unless you're primarily stabbing with it. Chei will help shorten average combat time over the long run for any weapon, but unarmed gets the largest boost in certain forms. Yermak is incredible with short blade speedruns, but I don't think he does much melee with them. I haven't gone over too many of his morgues in that kind of detail, though.

And for the record the bite damage/antimagic effect is a strong secondary reason why they're strong, but I consider the regen/mana shield/mana restore from bite is the primary reason. Some of my favorite demonspawn characters had the mana shield facet, it's very good.

[radinms]

should nerf VS's melee.

the mechanics of VS is very interesting... cast magic, no mp, attack, mp drain, cast magic, ....this mechanics is obviously op.

but now melee of VS is absurdly powerful. quick blade+antimagic bite allows mindless tabstorm. it's very very very op. so not fun.