Are bows underpowered in the late game?

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Halls Hopper

Posts: 76

Joined: Tuesday, 16th September 2014, 15:52

Post Wednesday, 24th June 2015, 15:28

Are bows underpowered in the late game?

I've been trying for a while to beat the game with a CeHu using bows, but damage from arrows feels underwhelming. It's fine for much of the dungeon when I can use hit and run tactics, and I find I can get to the Vaults pretty easily, but it still takes 6-7 shots to kill vault monsters with 20+ Bows skill and a +5ish branded Long Bow. When it's time to clear V:5 I just can't kill things quickly enough before I get swarmed and there's nowhere to retreat.

Can anyone say that bow damage keeps up with monster defenses at the end of a 3-rune game? Any tips?

Typically I go Oka for the ammo, but this game I'm attempting Yred for the powerful summons, and the plan is to hopefully find Portal Projectile so I can kill the threats while my summons clean up the rest.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Wednesday, 24th June 2015, 15:40

Re: Are bows underpowered in the late game?

Vault monsters have good HP/AC, not many melee characters can kill them in 2-3 hits. At least longbows take 6 auts per attack unlike most melee weapons. If you have no slaying, longbows are weak vs high AC monsters (Cursed Skull, OoF).
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Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Wednesday, 24th June 2015, 15:57

Re: Are bows underpowered in the late game?

Does !might affect ranged now?

But yeah, vaults nasties are nasty and that's V:5's trick. If you can, keep moving and luring dudes so you have as few dangerous monsters knowing where you are at once, and manage noise with the walls as much as you can. I believe arrows make noise where they hit (and more when they deal more damage, assuming ranged noise works like melee noise) so be aware of where your targets are when you're shooting.
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Tomb Titivator

Posts: 886

Joined: Saturday, 3rd January 2015, 22:34

Post Wednesday, 24th June 2015, 15:59

Re: Are bows underpowered in the late game?

re: vaults:5, on your first turn down the stairs, walk diagonally toward the vault guards, then walk between two of them, then head for one of the corridors. Blink if you have to.

You should be able to establish a reasonable position to shoot everything down from the corridor. Maybe use immolation to thin out the initial rush. Once you've done that, use your speed and position to keep the number of monsters you're dealing with at once small.

Yred isn't going to give you the kind of help you want on v:5, I don't think. Oka is a good choice for this kind of char. By that stage of the game, I'm surprised you haven't been gifted a pretty solid bow, but in any case with Oka, you've got finesse and no buddies blocking your shots.
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Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1694

Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34

Post Wednesday, 24th June 2015, 17:01

Re: Are bows underpowered in the late game?

From what I've seen, bows are certainly viable throughout the 3 rune game (I'd expect they're viable through the whole game) but at times they do feel a little weak. However, part of that is because they feel slow, due to animations and aiming and what not, so you overlook the fact that with a good melee weapon you might kill them faster in real time, but in game time they're fairly comparable.

I do prefer crossbows though, as they pack a little extra punch, which helps get through AC, plus they're more accurate, which is a big help early on. Plus penetration ammo and brand exist for crossbows, which is great (although there is the one artifact longbow with penetration)

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Wednesday, 24th June 2015, 17:45

Re: Are bows underpowered in the late game?

Longbows have the same stats as glaives and battleaxes, both perfectly reasonable weapons; unlike those weapons they normally can't receive the elec or vampiric brands, but also unlike those weapons they can have both vorpal and flaming or freezing at the same time, thanks to the weird way branded arrows work. Further, while vampiric and elec are rare, vorpal + branded ammo is not. Longbows are perfectly viable for any length of game.

Shoals Surfer

Posts: 300

Joined: Thursday, 1st May 2014, 13:13

Post Wednesday, 24th June 2015, 17:59

Re: Are bows underpowered in the late game?

Investing more than 20 in bows is a mistake, mindelay is at 20. Even before that point, you should train up melee to a decent level.

Tartarus Sorceror

Posts: 1694

Joined: Tuesday, 31st March 2015, 20:34

Post Wednesday, 24th June 2015, 18:57

Re: Are bows underpowered in the late game?

Why train melee to a decent level? I mean, I always do, because it makes it faster to tab the popcorn, but there's enough ammo to support just using a bow. Of course, DMSL enemies like wind drakes and spriggan air elementalists are going to be annoying, but still, a longbow has the same base damage as a battleaxe or eveningstar, both perfectly viable weapons with only 1 range instead of full LOS range.

It is silly to invest more than required for min-delay, as usual.


Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2162

Joined: Tuesday, 3rd February 2015, 22:05

Post Wednesday, 24th June 2015, 18:59

Re: Are bows underpowered in the late game?

Another difference is that you can use spectral weapon on a melee weapon. But yeah, you can just use longbow to even hit adjacent monsters.

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