Lets talk about defenses

[ajon]

So, I have been trying to go with high AC characters lately. Usually end up with 40-50 AC and 20 EV.

I have been considering trying some lighter armor approaches but I'm not sure what are considered good or balanced scores? If you have 30AC and 30EV is this easily winnable or if it better to have at least one of them in the 40s?

Basically, what are some decent ways to build defenses and the pros and cons to that build.

[rchandra]

Just pulled up my last halfling win, 21/36 defenses in +2 leather. More is always better. I generally just try to maximise my total AC/EV with AC being preferred to EV by a little.

This 15-rune KoHe in PDA had 53/40 (and 17 slaying plus captain's cutless) ... just use what you find as best you can.

If you have lots of str, generally get heavy armour, if you have lots of dex and no str, you'll be looking for more dodging skill and good leather or light dragon armours.

[Wahaha]

If ac+ev adds up to 50 that should be good enough to win. 30/30 is easily winnable.

[tedric]

The most general advice I have heard, that seems to make sense, is along the lines of "Go with whatever body armour gives you the highest combined AC+EV, and when the total is equivalent, go with the higher AC." Of course the "optimal" choice will also depend on species armor slot restrictions, aptitudes, size, etc. But in general high-AC/low-EV defenses are more reliable because even though you get hit more often, you take less damage per hit. Whereas with high-EV/low-AC, you get hit less, but when a blow does land it frakking hurts.

It is also true that HP is your best defense, so don't neglect to train Fighting. And when you're not clanking around in heavy armour, a little Stealth skill goes a long way.

From my experience 30/30 should be quite winnable. If you're struggling, the advice that will help is pretty much the same as the advice that will improve one's play in general -- especially if you're used to high-AC melee-focused builds that haven't required you to take much advantage of spells and other tools. There are spells that can boost AC temporarily, like Ozo's Armour and Stoneskin, which are relatively low-level so you should be able to get them castable even on species with poor apts (and note that "castable" does not mean 1% failure). If you are in the habit of using Enchant Armour scrolls to pump up your body armour, start by putting them into your aux armour slots instead (starting with hat/gloves/boots, then cloak, and only then body armour -- because the rarer armour types are less likely to be replaced later on). If you find a buckler and have a hand free, wear it and train 5 levels of Shields as soon as you can spare the skill points (even if you end up with a 2-handed weapon later, the investment is small and the extra defenses are welcome; but don't use ?EA unless your other slots are fully enchanted). Use evokables/ranged/conjurations to damage enemies from afar. Prepare to use more consumables, and more thoughtfully, than you might on a tank-y berzerker type. Try not fight where more than one enemy can damage you. Etc.

[mps]

The rule of thumb that you want to maximize AC + EV is right. The marginal value of AC is greater when your AC is low, like less than 15 or so. When both AC and EV are high, a point of EV is better than a point of AC. Exactly how this works seems to be pretty complicated and the details probably aren't hugely important.

As a strategic matter, it seems that heavy armor melee builds are fastest and most straightforward to win (this is reflected in high scores in recent versions). Melee and light armor with moderate AC and high EV gives you more access to magic, which is interesting/fun, but I'm not sure it's actually better from the perspective of optimal play.

[Brannock]

As a strategic matter, it seems that heavy armor melee builds are fastest and most straightforward to win (this is reflected in high scores in recent versions).

That is correct.

Melee and light armor with moderate AC and high EV gives you more access to magic, which is interesting/fun, but I'm not sure it's actually better from the perspective of optimal play.

It is not.

[Bloax]

The rule of thumb that you want to maximize AC + EV is right. The marginal value of AC is greater when your AC is low, like less than 15 or so. When both AC and EV are high, a point of EV is better than a point of AC. Exactly how this works seems to be pretty complicated and the details probably aren't hugely important.

This is likely related to AC being rolled as (1dAC)-1 with GDR coming in somehow that I couldn't be bothered to read while skimming the code, while EV is rolled as the average of two (1d(EV*2))-1 rolls.

Melee and light armor with moderate AC and high EV gives you more access to magic, which is interesting/fun, but I'm not sure it's actually better from the perspective of optimal play.

It is not.

The explanation behind this is that melee is really, really good and the spells that will help you out the most in melee - shit like song of slaying, regeneration and spectral weapon - are all low-level spells that don't take too much investment. The only notable exception would be phase shift, as getting a level 5 spell online would be rather difficult with a non-chei meleeguy.

Spoiler: show

crossbows are still better than melee, but since ranged is not fun due to tab getting all leaky and dangerous online we'll just pretend it doesn't exist