-5AC for +5 Slaying?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Thursday, 19th March 2015, 23:11

-5AC for +5 Slaying?

What do you think:
  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16.0-16-g311141a (console) character file.

Seigurt the Unseen (Vine Stalker Berserker)        Turns: 54610, Time: 07:08:32

Health: 128/128    AC: 26    Str: 21    XL:     23   Next: 49%
Magic:  35/35      EV: 32    Int:  9    God:    Trog [******]
Gold:   1380       SH: 15    Dex: 23    Spells: 0 memorised, 22 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     a - +9 quick blade (venom)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     O - +5 ring mail of Darkness {rPois rF+ rCorr}
rNeg   . . .     SustAb   .     L - +0 shield {reflect}
rPois  +         Gourm    .     I - +2 helmet {SInv}
rElec  .         Spirit   +     n - +2 cloak {rC+}
rCorr  +         Warding  .     c - +2 pair of gloves {archery}
rMut   .         Stasis   .     K - +2 pair of boots
MR     ++...                    T - amulet of faith
Stlth  +++++++...               g - +3 ring of slaying
                                Z - ring of Shaolin {EV+8}

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely stealthy
A: fangs 3, clever 1, regeneration 3, screaming 1, magic shield, antimagic bite,
no device heal 3, rot immunity
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion
}: 3/15 runes: decaying, slimy, gossamer


You are on level 5 of the Vaults.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are very full.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 50 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Bailey, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 5432 gold pieces.
You have spent 4052 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +9 quick blade of venom (weapon)
 b - a +8 blowgun
 R - a +9 antimagic quick blade
Missiles
 d - 17 curare-tipped needles
 l - 6 needles of sleeping
 m - 3 needles of confusion
 t - 5 throwing nets
 u - 77 poisoned needles
 v - 16 needles of paralysis
 C - 9 javelins of penetration
 F - 7 steel javelins (quivered)
Armour
 c - a +2 pair of gloves of archery (worn)
 k - the cursed -3 helmet of Amorality {rC+ Slay+5}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+5).
   It protects you from cold.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 n - a +2 cloak of cold resistance (worn)
 I - a +2 helmet of see invisible (worn)
 K - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 L - a +0 shield of reflection (worn)
 O - the +5 ring mail of Darkness (worn) {rPois rF+ rCorr}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from poison.
   It protects you from acid and corrosion.
Rods
 x - a +5 rod of shadows (11/11)
   (You took it off a minotaur in a labyrinth)
 A - a +1 rod of the swarm (12/12)
   (You took it off a hill giant on level 14 of the Dungeon)
 S - a +5 rod of destruction (14/14)
   (You took it off a deep elf knight on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
Jewellery
 f - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 g - a +3 ring of slaying (right hand)
 q - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 T - an amulet of faith (around neck)
 Z - the ring of Shaolin (left hand) {EV+8}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+8).
Magical devices
 p - a wand of digging (13)
 G - a wand of hasting (7)
 M - a wand of disintegration (9)
 V - a wand of enslavement (13)
Scrolls
 r - 18 scrolls of teleportation
 s - a scroll of silence
 B - 6 scrolls of fog
 E - 3 scrolls of blinking
 N - 11 scrolls of identify
 P - a scroll of magic mapping
 W - 21 scrolls of remove curse
Potions
 o - 2 potions of might
 D - 9 potions of resistance
 Q - 3 potions of cancellation
 U - 5 potions of magic
 X - 2 potions of curing
Miscellaneous
 e - a legendary deck of summoning {the Crusade, drawn: 1}
 h - a phantom mirror
 y - a lamp of fire
 z - a stone of tremors
 H - a fan of gales
 J - a sack of spiders
 Y - a phial of floods
Comestibles
 i - 38 royal jellies
 j - 58 fruits
 w - 12 bread rations


   Skills:
 + Level 16.1 Fighting
 - Level 10.0 Short Blades
 - Level 15.0 Throwing
 - Level 12.1 Armour
 + Level 13.4 Dodging
 + Level 19.4 Stealth
 - Level 15.0 Shields
 + Level 10.1 Evocations


You have 22 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (14/15)            Temple (0/1) D:4            Lair (8/8) D:11
  Swamp (5/5) Lair:3       Spider (5/5) Lair:4        Slime (6/6) Lair:7
    Orc (4/4) D:10            Elf (3/3) Orc:4        Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2   

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Fedhas
Okawaru
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Yredelemnul
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:6 ??   D:10 [   Orc:4 =[(*   Elf:2 %=?!   Vaults:1 **([[   Vaults:4 (

Portals:
Trove: Vaults:1 (give +2 gold dragon armour)

Annotations:
Lair:7 exclusion: oklob plant
Elf:2 3 runed doors


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have razor-sharp teeth.
You regenerate.
When hurt, damage is shared between your health and your magic reserves.
Your bite disrupts and absorbs the magic of your enemies.
Potions and wands cannot restore your health.
You are immune to rotting.
Your mind is acute. (Int +2)
You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes.


Message History

You see here a bolt.
Your water elemental disappears in a puff of smoke!
Unknown command.
You see here 16 steel sling bullets.
Your water elemental disappears in a puff of smoke!
d - 17 curare-tipped needles (gained 7)
Your pack is full.
You see here a potion of flight.
You see here a fine helmet.
Drop what? 52/52 slots (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop 5 silver javelins.
k - a fine helmet
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Identify which item? (\ to view known items) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
As you read the scroll of identify, it crumbles to dust.
k - the cursed -3 helmet of Amorality {rC+ Slay+5}
Char dumped successfully.
Save game and exit?
[Y]es or [N]o only, please.
Save game and exit?

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There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  the royal jelly (Slime:6)
  Sojobo (Vaults:4)
  Mara (Swamp:4)
  Frederick (Vaults:4)
  Arachne (Spider:5)
  A bone dragon (Swamp:5)
  A lich (Vaults:4)
  A tentacled monstrosity (Vaults:5)
  A Hell Sentinel (Elf:3)
  2 deep elf blademasters (Elf:3)
  A titan (Vaults:5)
  11 acid blobs
  2 deep elf master archers (Elf:3)
  A Shadow Fiend (Elf:3)
  An acid blob (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  4 tengu reavers
  3 shadow dragons (Vaults:5)
  An ancient champion (Vaults:4)
  Kirke (Swamp:5)
  3 thorn hunters
  8 azure jellies
  3 frost giants
  Donald (Elf:1)
  Wiglaf (Spider:5)
  2 fire giants
  13 vault wardens
  3 deep elf sorcerers
  2 draconian knights (Vaults:4)
  Aizul (Swamp:4)
  4 ghost moths (Spider:5)
  2 orc warlords (Orc:4)
  Gastronok (D:12)
  5 emperor scorpions
  Jorgrun (Swamp:2)
  4 very ugly things
  The ghost of ShopKeeper the Impaler, a powerful MfGl of Yredelemnul (Orc:4)
  A spriggan defender (Vaults:4)
  11 ironheart preservers
  A war gargoyle (Vaults:5)
  9 stone giants
  2 rakshasas (Vaults:1)
  6 deep elf demonologists
  Azrael (Elf:3)
  6 ettins (Vaults:5)
  7 deep elf annihilators
  2 death oozes (Slime:6)
  Snorg (Orc:2)
  6 yaktaur captains
  A blizzard demon (Elf:3)
  6 deep elf death magi
  The ghost of LukarsButtSlave the Devastator, a powerful DEAs of Vehumet (Lair:5)
  5 great orbs of eyes
  Josephine (D:11)
  2 deep elf high priests (Elf:3)
  A minotaur (Lab)
  17 vault guards
  An ice dragon (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  An ice dragon (Vaults:3)
  3 ghost crabs
  Nessos (Orc:3)
  2 catoblepae (D:14)
  Erica (Lair:8)
  9 alligators
  13 hydras
  7 centaur warriors
  8 ogre magi
  A deep troll earth mage (Vaults:2)
  3 dancing weapons
  9 death yaks
  4 deep troll shamans
  A sun demon (Elf:3)
  Nergalle (Orc:3)
  A soul eater (Elf:3)
  2 orc high priests
  A fire crab (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  10 skeletal warriors (Vaults:2)
  2 hell knights
  2 fire crabs
  15 deep elf knights
  A storm dragon skeleton (Vaults:2)
  10 hill giants
  3 ice devils (IceCv)
  2 spriggan druids
  19 deep trolls
  9 deep elf summoners
  Erolcha (D:12)
  An unseen horror (D:13)
  8 swamp dragons
  2 ice statues (IceCv)
  A lindwurm (Swamp:5)
  30 orc knights
  A lindwurm (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  4 shambling mangroves
  2 flayed ghosts
  A giant orange brain (Vaults:2)
  3 necromancers
  A spectral hydra (Swamp:5)
  2 griffons
  2 wolf spider zombies (Spider:2)
  24 ugly things
  24 wolf spiders
  3 wizards
  3 phantasmal warriors
  A mana viper (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  15 ironbrand convokers
  18 orb spiders
  2 shining eyes (Slime:6)
  12 deep elf conjurers
  11 hornets
  2 sphinx skeletons (Vaults:2)
  2 salamanders (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  A stone giant zombie (Vaults:1)
  6 orc sorcerers
  A moth of wrath (Spider:4)
  5 human skeletons
  A black mamba (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  3 black mambas
  5 cyclopes
  A moth of wrath (shapeshifter) (Elf:1)
  A manticore (Swamp:5)
  20 spiny frogs
  2 stone giant skeletons
  13 elephants
  A frost giant skeleton (Vaults:2)
  An orange demon (Elf:3)
  Joseph (Orc:3)
  17 vault sentinels
  4 torpor snails
  4 eyes of devastation
  An efreet (D:14)
  25 yaktaurs
  3 swamp worm zombies (Swamp:5)
  3 hellwings (Elf:3)
  A fire drake (shapeshifter) (Elf:2)
  19 demonic crawlers
  5 kobold demonologists
  A komodo dragon (shapeshifter) (Vaults:3)
  10 komodo dragons
  A red devil (Elf:3)
  14 deep elf priests
  3 hydra zombies (Swamp:5)
  3 fire drakes
  14 two-headed ogres
  26 jumping spiders
  3 freezing wraiths
  Sonja (Orc:2)
  8 polar bears (Lair:8)
  8 giant leeches
  Grinder (D:5)
  10 ravens
  17 blink frogs
  7 bog bodies
  8 blue devils (IceCv)
  8 trolls
  A wind drake (shapeshifter) (Vaults:1)
  3 raiju (Lair:8)
  2 spectral swamp dragons (Swamp:5)
  56 slime creatures
  12 baby alligators
  4 boulder beetles
  28 trapdoor spiders
  5 alligator zombies (Swamp:5)
  4 basilisks
  A centaur simulacrum (D:14)
  2 ettin skeletons (Vaults:2)
  45 redbacks
  16 tarantellas
  A ynoxinul (Elf:3)
  A redback (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  3 spriggans
  6 wraiths
  A hungry ghost (D:14)
  A spriggan (shapeshifter) (D:13)
  26 yaks
  Eustachio (D:10)
  37 deep elf magi
  2 mottled dragons
  A human simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  2 fire elementals (Elf:3)
  9 hippogriffs
  4 hogs (Swamp:5)
  A shadow (D:13)
  Grum (D:8)
  A wyvern (Lair:5)
  30 vampire mosquitoes
  2 neqoxecs
  2 steam dragons
  25 wolves
  3 golden eyes (Slime:6)
  34 deep elf fighters
  A spectral spiny frog (Swamp:5)
  25 swamp worms
  Edmund (D:6)
  Menkaure (D:7)
  15 wargs
  28 water moccasins
  70 orc warriors
  9 hell hounds
  23 insubstantial wisps
  12 ice beasts
  A spectral snapping turtle (Swamp:5)
  11 swamp drakes
  14 porcupines
  2 small abominations
  An eye of draining (shapeshifter) (Vaults:4)
  A slave (D:5)
  10 wasps
  29 spiders
  4 eyes of draining (Slime:6)
  12 black bears (Lair:8)
  3 swamp dragon zombies (Swamp:5)
  4 phantoms (Swamp:5)
  An ettin simulacrum (Vaults:1)
  45 ogres
  21 centaurs
  13 crocodiles
  A boring beetle (shapeshifter) (Vaults:2)
  2 sky beasts
  A brain worm (D:14)
  2 boring beetles
  21 giant frogs
  2 big kobolds (Vaults:1)
  A gnoll sergeant (D:9)
  2 wyvern skeletons (D:12)
  9 scorpions
  16 wights
  5 electric eels
  6 crimson imps
  29 killer bees
  4 giant frog zombies
  A spectral centaur (Swamp:5)
  20 jellies
  4 goliath beetles
  A wasp zombie (D:10)
  Crazy Yiuf (D:2)
  28 orc priests
  2 giant frog skeletons
  12 hell rats
  33 hounds
  14 iguanas
  38 orc wizards
  3 polar bear simulacra (Lair:2)
  A centaur skeleton (D:12)
  10 worker ants
  4 spectral swamp drakes (Swamp:5)
  2 yak simulacra (Lair:2)
  20 sheep
  3 wolf simulacra (Lair:2)
  A worker ant zombie (D:6)
  A hound skeleton (D:7)
  3 hound zombies
  4 gnolls
  56 river rats
  29 adders
  3 shadow imps
  2 swamp drake zombies (Swamp:5)
  8 white imps (IceCv)
  8 worms
  7 ufetubi
  2 adder zombies
  2 adder skeletons
  9 oozes
  An ooze (shapeshifter) (Vaults:5)
  180 orcs
  16 bats
  2 bat skeletons
  4 giant cockroaches
  34 goblins
  25 hobgoblins
  18 jackals
  23 kobolds
  18 quokkas
  3 ball pythons
  8 giant geckos
  7 giant newts
  A giant spore (D:6)
  A jackal skeleton (D:6)
  2 jackal zombies
  19 rats
  3 river rat simulacra (Lair:2)
  3 spectral orcs
  14 ballistomycetes
  2 butterflies
  2 fungi
  4 plants
2336 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  An acid blob (Slime:6)
  An azure jelly (Slime:6)
  8 vault guards (Vaults:5)
  A great orb of eyes (Vaults:1)
  A hill giant (D:10)
  Pikel (D:5)
  A phantasmal warrior (Vaults:4)
  5 elephants (Lair:4)
  A yaktaur (Vaults:2)
  A queen bee (D:9)
  2 blink frogs (Lair:4)
  A redback (Spider:3)
  A vampire mosquito (Vaults:3)
  2 orc warriors
  11 killer bees (D:9)
  A crimson imp (D:5)
  An orc priest (D:10)
  A mummy (D:9)
  A river rat (Lair:4)
  An adder (D:5)
  An adder skeleton (D:5)
  4 orcs
48 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A stone giant (Slime:6)
  A deep elf knight (Elf:2)
  An unseen horror (Slime:5)
  A hill giant (Slime:6)
  An orb spider (Spider:3)
  3 manticores
  An efreet (Slime:5)
  A troll (Slime:6)
  A hydra zombie (Swamp:5)
  A tarantella (Spider:3)
  5 yaks (Spider:3)
  2 humans (Swamp:5)
  5 insubstantial wisps (Swamp:5)
  A mottled dragon (Vaults:1)
  A spider (Vaults:3)
  A lost soul (Vaults:5)
  3 killer bees
  A jelly (Spider:3)
  2 worker ants
  3 ufetubi (IceCv)
  A giant spore (D:11)
  2 fungi (Lair:8)
  5 plants (Lair:8)
  8 toadstools (Swamp:3)
52 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 2436 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Seigurt, the Vine Stalker Berserker, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 11/11 MP: 1/1
    48 | D:1      | Reached skill level 3 in Short Blades
    76 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 14/16 MP: 3/3
    95 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
   387 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 19/19 MP: 4/4
   389 | D:1      | Acquired Trog's second power
  1099 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 23/23 MP: 5/5
  1369 | D:2      | Noticed Crazy Yiuf
  1376 | D:2      | Killed Crazy Yiuf
  1376 | D:2      | Reached skill level 4 in Short Blades
  1560 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 24/27 MP: 7/7
  1993 | D:3      | Found an iron altar of Okawaru.
  2722 | D:3      | Acquired Trog's third power
  2964 | D:4      | Gained mutation: You heal very quickly. [vine stalker growth]
  2964 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 32/32 MP: 8/8
  3345 | D:4      | Noticed an ogre
  3411 | D:4      | Killed an ogre
  3555 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Stealth
  3647 | D:4      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  3994 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4028 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Short Blades
  4028 | D:5      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 36/36 MP: 9/9
  4031 | D:5      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  4369 | D:5      | Noticed Grinder
  4396 | D:5      | Killed Grinder
  4427 | D:5      | Gained mutation: You have razor-sharp teeth. [vine stalker growth]
  4427 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 42/42 MP: 11/11
  4727 | D:5      | Noticed Pikel
  4744 | D:5      | Killed Pikel
  4805 | D:5      | Found a deep blue altar of Sif Muna.
  4805 | D:5      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  4812 | D:5      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  5376 | D:6      | Found Sielicvu's Magic Scroll Boutique.
  5380 | D:6      | Reached skill level 6 in Short Blades
  5383 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  5394 | D:6      | Bought a scroll of identify for 30 gold pieces
  5395 | D:6      | Gained mutation: Your mind is acute. (Int +2) [potion of beneficial mutation]
  5432 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  5628 | D:6      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  5729 | D:6      | Noticed Edmund
  5739 | D:6      | Killed Edmund
  5739 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 47/47 MP: 12/12
  6241 | D:6      | Reached skill level 7 in Short Blades
  6300 | D:6      | Found Doimij's Magic Scroll Shop.
  6303 | D:6      | Bought a scroll of identify for 20 gold pieces
  6304 | D:6      | Bought a scroll of identify for 20 gold pieces
  6304 | D:6      | Bought a scroll of fog for 20 gold pieces
  6304 | D:6      | Bought a scroll of torment for 75 gold pieces
  6507 | D:7      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  6604 | D:7      | Found a sacrificial altar of Ru.
  6666 | D:7      | Noticed Menkaure
  6671 | D:7      | Killed Menkaure
  6831 | D:7      | Received a gift from Trog
  7145 | D:7      | Reached skill level 8 in Short Blades
  7424 | D:8      | Received a gift from Trog
  7652 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 44/51 MP: 14/14
  7673 | D:8      | Reached skill level 1 in Evocations
  7692 | D:8      | Noticed Grum
  7717 | D:8      | Killed Grum
  8154 | D:8      | Received a gift from Trog
  8401 | D:9      | Reached skill level 5 in Throwing
  8403 | D:9      | Reached skill level 9 in Short Blades
  8970 | D:10     | Entered Level 10 of the Dungeon
  9144 | D:10     | Received a gift from Trog
  9201 | D:10     | Found a staircase to the Orcish Mines.
  9301 | D:10     | Found Mnuipaoca's Antique Armour Boutique.
  9313 | D:10     | Bought a pair of boots for 126 gold pieces
  9378 | D:10     | Reached skill level 1 in Shields
  9426 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
  9451 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
  9451 | D:10     | Reached XP level 11. HP: 47/56 MP: 18/18
  9488 | D:10     | Got an ichor-stained chain mail
  9515 | D:9      | Identified the +8 chain mail "Pyzaotau" {Int+4 Dex+2} (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)
  9941 | D:10     | Noticed Eustachio
  9956 | D:10     | Killed Eustachio
 10307 | D:10     | Noticed a hill giant
 10356 | D:10     | Killed a hill giant
 10401 | D:10     | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 10593 | D:11     | Noticed Josephine
 10628 | D:11     | Killed Josephine
 10628 | D:11     | Reached skill level 10 in Short Blades
 10811 | D:11     | Received a gift from Trog
 10815 | D:11     | Got a faintly glowing broad axe {god gift}
 10816 | D:11     | Identified the +9 broad axe "Frie" {freeze, MR+ Str+2 Dex+7} (Trog gifted it to you on level 11 of the Dungeon)
 10818 | D:11     | Upgraded the game from 0.16.0-6-gad6103a to 0.16.0-8-gd9ae3a8
 11317 | D:11     | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 11497 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 11510 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 12064 | D:11     | Noticed a hill giant
 12089 | D:11     | Killed a hill giant
 12089 | D:11     | Gained mutation: You regenerate. [vine stalker growth]
 12089 | D:11     | Reached XP level 12. HP: 51/63 MP: 21/21
 12154 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 12335 | Lair:1   | You fall through a shaft!
 12358 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Shields
 12444 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Trog
 12459 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Evocations
 12806 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
 12882 | Lair:2   | Received a gift from Trog
 13544 | Lair:1   | Got a silken robe
 13592 | D:11     | Identified the +1 robe of Clyiseb {rN+ Str-3 Int+5} (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)
 14016 | Lair:3   | Noticed a four-headed hydra
 14020 | Lair:3   | Killed a four-headed hydra
 14141 | Lair:3   | Received a gift from Trog
 14186 | Lair:3   | Reached XP level 13. HP: 71/71 MP: 10/23
 14315 | Lair:3   | Found a staircase to the Swamp.
 14568 | Lair:3   | Reached skill level 10 in Fighting
 14971 | Lair:4   | Found a frozen archway.
 15003 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Trog
 15015 | IceCv    | Entered an ice cave
 15513 | Lair:4   | Reached skill level 10 in Stealth
 15604 | Lair:4   | Found a dark tunnel.
 15614 | Volcano  | Entered a volcano
 15637 | Volcano  | Received a gift from Trog
 15750 | Volcano  | Reached XP level 14. HP: 77/77 MP: 8/24
 15986 | Lair:4   | Found a hole to the Spider Nest.
 16091 | Lair:4   | Received a gift from Trog
 17307 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 17325 | Lair:5   | Noticed LukarsButtSlave's ghost (powerful DEAs)
 17344 | Lair:5   | Killed LukarsButtSlave's ghost
 17344 | Lair:5   | Reached skill level 11 in Stealth
 17652 | Lair:5   | Received a gift from Trog
 18165 | Lair:6   | Reached XP level 15. HP: 77/80 MP: 8/25
 18757 | Lair:6   | Received a gift from Trog
 18760 | Lair:6   | Got a brightly glowing rapier {god gift}
 18761 | Lair:6   | Identified the +13 rapier "Tryebleo" {drain, *Rage rElec rPois rN+ Stlth+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)
 18762 | Lair:6   | Wheeeeeeee
 19120 | Lair:7   | Got an ichor-stained scale mail
 19146 | Lair:7   | Identified the +4 scale mail of Grace {+Blink rPois rF- Str+3 SInv} (You found it on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)
 19300 | Lair:7   | Found a blossoming altar of Fedhas.
 19367 | Lair:7   | Found a staircase to the Slime Pits.
 19394 | Lair:7   | Found a viscous altar of Jiyva.
 19775 | Lair:8   | Entered Level 8 of the Lair of Beasts
 19811 | Lair:8   | Reached skill level 12 in Stealth
 19948 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 20291 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 20460 | Lair:8   | Noticed Erica
 20622 | Lair:8   | Killed Erica
 20935 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 21155 | Lair:8   | Received a gift from Trog
 21971 | D:10     | Bought a spiked buckler for 266 gold pieces
 21981 | D:10     | Identified the +1 buckler of Makhleb's Approval {Dex+2} (You bought it in a shop on level 10 of the Dungeon)
 22009 | Orc:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Orcish Mines
 22210 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 22240 | Orc:1    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 22316 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 22537 | Orc:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 22720 | Orc:2    | Noticed Snorg
 22734 | Orc:2    | Killed Snorg
 22829 | Orc:2    | Noticed Sonja
 22840 | Orc:2    | Killed Sonja
 22976 | Orc:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 23013 | Orc:2    | Found a flagged portal.
 23042 | Bailey   | Entered a bailey
 23227 | Bailey   | Reached XP level 16. HP: 83/86 MP: 26/28
 23336 | Bailey   | Received a gift from Trog
 23343 | Bailey   | Got a pair of bloodstained boots
 23354 | Bailey   | Identified the cursed +0 pair of boots "Ridain" {rC- rN+ Str+2} (You found it in a bailey)
 23899 | Orc:3    | Noticed Nessos
 23899 | Orc:3    | Noticed Nergalle
 23924 | Orc:3    | Killed Nessos
 23932 | Orc:3    | Killed Nergalle
 24173 | Orc:3    | Noticed Joseph
 24183 | Orc:3    | Killed Joseph
 24304 | Orc:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 24420 | Orc:4    | Entered Level 4 of the Orcish Mines
 24438 | Orc:4    | Noticed ShopKeeper's ghost (powerful MfGl)
 24473 | Orc:4    | Killed ShopKeeper's ghost
 24480 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 24519 | Orc:4    | Found a labyrinth entrance.
 24541 | Lab      | Entered a labyrinth
 24913 | Lab      | Identified a +4 rod of shadows (9/9) (You took it off a minotaur in a labyrinth)
 25258 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 25650 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 25719 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 25770 | Orc:4    | Found Dara's General Store.
 25825 | Orc:4    | Received a gift from Trog
 25901 | Orc:4    | Found a staircase to the Elven Halls.
 25906 | Orc:4    | Found Smacil's Antique Armour Shoppe.
 25936 | Orc:4    | Found Wuef's Jewellery Shoppe.
 25957 | Orc:4    | Found Bopatocs' Antique Weapon Shoppe.
 25981 | Orc:4    | Bought a pair of embroidered gloves for 121 gold pieces
 26004 | Orc:4    | Bought an encrusted ring mail for 243 gold pieces
 26014 | Orc:4    | Identified the +5 ring mail of Darkness {rPois rF+ rCorr} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 26015 | Orc:4    | Bought a helmet for 121 gold pieces
 26026 | Orc:4    | Bought a thick robe for 153 gold pieces
 26036 | Orc:4    | Identified the +2 robe of Divine Intervention {+Fly MP+9} (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)
 26077 | Orc:4    | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 75 gold pieces
 26108 | Orc:4    | Bought a +3 ring of slaying for 630 gold pieces
 26108 | Orc:4    | Bought an uncursed amulet of resist mutation for 560 gold pieces
 26265 | Orc:4    | Found a roughly hewn altar of Beogh.
 26572 | D:6      | Bought a scroll of enchant armour for 112 gold pieces
 26573 | D:6      | Upgraded the game from 0.16.0-8-gd9ae3a8 to 0.16.0-11-gd45b091
 26638 | D:12     | Noticed Gastronok
 26650 | D:12     | Killed Gastronok
 26892 | D:12     | Received a gift from Trog
 27123 | D:12     | Noticed Erolcha
 27135 | D:12     | Killed Erolcha
 27676 | D:13     | Reached skill level 10 in Dodging
 28719 | Lair:3   | Received a gift from Trog
 28763 | Spider:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Spider Nest
 29306 | Spider:1 | Upgraded the game from 0.16.0-11-gd45b091 to 0.16.0-15-gaae3e8d
 29433 | Spider:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 29942 | Spider:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 30279 | Spider:3 | Reached XP level 17. HP: 53/93 MP: 17/29
 30588 | Spider:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 30588 | Spider:3 | Reached skill level 10 in Shields
 30655 | Spider:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 30782 | Spider:3 | Got a faintly glowing leather armour
 30793 | Spider:3 | Identified the +3 leather armour "Miaxzoac" {rCorr MP+9 Str+4} (You found it on level 3 of the Spider Nest)
 31582 | Spider:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 31824 | Spider:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Spider Nest
 31947 | Spider:5 | Noticed Wiglaf
 31973 | Spider:5 | Killed Wiglaf
 32332 | Spider:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 32635 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 13 in Shields
 32674 | Spider:5 | Noticed Arachne
 32686 | Spider:5 | Killed Arachne
 32699 | Spider:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 32962 | Spider:5 | Reached XP level 18. HP: 95/98 MP: 30/30
 33005 | Spider:5 | Reached skill level 14 in Shields
 33042 | Spider:5 | Got a gossamer rune of Zot
 33328 | Swamp:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Swamp
 33456 | Swamp:1  | Received a gift from Trog
 34112 | Swamp:2  | Noticed Jorgrun
 34135 | Swamp:2  | Killed Jorgrun
 34801 | Swamp:3  | Reached skill level 15 in Shields
 34838 | Swamp:3  | Received a gift from Trog
 35031 | Swamp:3  | Received a gift from Trog
 35038 | Swamp:3  | Got a crude dagger {god gift}
 35039 | Swamp:3  | Identified the +13 dagger of Wounding {drain, Dex+4} (Trog gifted it to you on level 3 of the Swamp)
 35835 | Swamp:4  | Noticed Mara
 35848 | Swamp:4  | Killed Mara
 35848 | Swamp:4  | Reached skill level 10 in Throwing
 35971 | Swamp:4  | Received a gift from Trog
 36022 | Swamp:4  | Noticed Aizul
 36070 | Swamp:4  | Killed Aizul
 36212 | Swamp:5  | Entered Level 5 of the Swamp
 36690 | Swamp:5  | Reached XP level 19. HP: 103/103 MP: 32/32
 37032 | Swamp:5  | Received a gift from Trog
 37267 | Swamp:5  | Noticed Kirke
 37321 | Swamp:5  | Killed Kirke
 37437 | Swamp:5  | Noticed a bone dragon
 37492 | Swamp:5  | Killed a bone dragon
 37546 | Swamp:5  | Got a decaying rune of Zot
 37933 | D:14     | Found a gate to the Vaults.
 38487 | D:14     | Received a gift from Trog
 39066 | D:14     | Received a gift from Trog
 39177 | D:14     | Reached skill level 10 in Evocations
 39217 | D:14     | Identified a +1 rod of the swarm (8/12) (You took it off a hill giant on level 14 of the Dungeon)
 39240 | Vaults:1 | Entered Level 1 of the Vaults
 39604 | Vaults:1 | Found Shriptae's Assorted Antiques.
 39608 | Vaults:1 | Bought a shiny glass ring for 175 gold pieces
 39719 | Vaults:1 | Found Sunwell's Weapon Boutique.
 39725 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 39821 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 39876 | Vaults:1 | Found Yduw's Antique Armour Emporium.
 39885 | Vaults:1 | Bought a pair of embroidered gloves for 157 gold pieces
 39898 | Vaults:1 | Bought a glowing helmet for 157 gold pieces
 39909 | Vaults:1 | Bought an encrusted ring mail for 315 gold pieces
 39919 | Vaults:1 | Identified the +9 ring mail of Servitude {Contam rElec MR+ Str+6 Slay-5} (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Vaults)
 40329 | Vaults:1 | Found Blatt's Antique Armour Boutique.
 40400 | Vaults:1 | Found a portal to a secret trove of treasure.
 40695 | Vaults:1 | Found Rouwin Rawah's Assorted Antiques.
 41267 | Vaults:1 | Received a gift from Trog
 41874 | Vaults:2 | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
 41928 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 41970 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 41992 | Vaults:2 | Reached XP level 20. HP: 96/110 MP: 29/33
 42339 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 42363 | Vaults:2 | Got an iridescent short sword {god gift}
 42364 | Vaults:2 | Identified the +8 short sword of the Hawk {flame, *Rage +Blink +Inv} (Trog gifted it to you on level 2 of the Vaults)
 42404 | Vaults:2 | Got a crude robe
 42415 | Vaults:2 | Identified the +1 robe of Honour {MR+ Int+5 Stlth-} (You found it on level 2 of the Vaults)
 42802 | Vaults:2 | Found a staircase to the Crypt.
 42952 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 43199 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 43834 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 44110 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 44495 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 44538 | Vaults:3 | Received a gift from Trog
 44645 | Vaults:3 | Reached XP level 21. HP: 112/116 MP: 34/34
 45166 | Vaults:4 | Found Cheaff's Weapon Shoppe.
 45537 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Sojobo
 45538 | Vaults:4 | Noticed Frederick
 45539 | Vaults:4 | Killed Sojobo
 45575 | Vaults:4 | Killed Frederick
 45854 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 45873 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 15 in Fighting
 45873 | Vaults:4 | Reached skill level 15 in Stealth
 46175 | Vaults:4 | Received a gift from Trog
 46851 | Elf:1    | Entered Level 1 of the Elven Halls
 47043 | Elf:1    | Noticed Donald
 47065 | Elf:1    | Killed Donald
 47117 | Elf:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 47411 | Elf:1    | Received a gift from Trog
 47637 | Elf:2    | Found Ipad's Magic Scroll Emporium.
 47644 | Elf:2    | Bought a scroll of acquirement for 676 gold pieces
 47652 | Elf:2    | Got a heavily runed helmet
 47663 | Elf:2    | Identified the +0 helmet of Xom's Condemnation {rPois} (You acquired it on level 2 of the Elven Halls)
 47681 | Elf:2    | Found Ahia's Distillery.
 47819 | Elf:2    | Found Igguutof's Jewellery Shop.
 47831 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 47947 | Elf:2    | Found Reoryger's Food Shoppe.
 47965 | Elf:2    | Reached skill level 16 in Stealth
 47979 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 48031 | Elf:2    | Received a gift from Trog
 48090 | Elf:2    | Got a crude ring mail
 48091 | Elf:2    | Identified the +0 ring mail of Distant Shores {MR+ Dex+4} (You found it on level 2 of the Elven Halls)
 48201 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 48202 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 48205 | Elf:2    | Found a runed gate.
 48267 | Elf:3    | Entered Level 3 of the Elven Halls
 48436 | Elf:3    | Noticed Azrael
 48465 | Elf:3    | Killed Azrael
 48506 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 49542 | Elf:3    | Got a glittering ivory ring
 49543 | Elf:3    | Identified the ring of Ifog {Wiz +Fly Stlth+} (You took it off a deep elf knight on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 49942 | Elf:3    | Reached skill level 17 in Stealth
 49942 | Elf:3    | Reached XP level 22. HP: 123/123 MP: 34/34
 49983 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 50107 | Elf:3    | Identified a +5 rod of destruction (14/14) (You took it off a deep elf knight on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 50173 | Elf:3    | Received a gift from Trog
 50343 | Elf:3    | Identified a +4 rod of destruction (14/14) (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)
 50364 | Elf:3    | Upgraded the game from 0.16.0-15-gaae3e8d to 0.16.0-16-g311141a
 51460 | Slime:1  | Entered Level 1 of the Pits of Slime
 51634 | Slime:6  | Entered Level 6 of the Pits of Slime
 51656 | Slime:6  | Received a gift from Trog
 51686 | Slime:6  | Got a fine short sword {god gift}
 51687 | Slime:6  | Identified the +7 short sword "Fiysy" {pierce, Stlth+} (Trog gifted it to you on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)
 51839 | Slime:6  | Reached skill level 18 in Stealth
 52115 | Slime:6  | Noticed the royal jelly
 52140 | Slime:6  | Killed the royal jelly
 52274 | Slime:6  | Gained mutation: You occasionally shout uncontrollably at your foes. [a shining eye]
 52451 | Slime:6  | Got a slimy rune of Zot
 52552 | Slime:6  | Got a faintly humming robe
 52553 | Slime:6  | Identified the +1 robe of Xomonnich {rN+} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)
 52576 | Slime:6  | Got a brightly glowing short sword
 52577 | Slime:6  | Identified the +5 short sword "String" {pierce, rPois rC+ Int+4} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)
 52617 | Slime:6  | Got a fine amethyst amulet
 52618 | Slime:6  | Identified the amulet "Egroitut" {Spirit Str-4 Int+5 Dex+4 SInv} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)
 52649 | Slime:6  | Got an encrusted cloak
 52660 | Slime:6  | Identified the -2 cloak "Buhyddoili" {MP+9 Dex+3} (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)
 53176 | Vaults:2 | Received a gift from Trog
 53293 | Vaults:5 | Entered Level 5 of the Vaults
 53406 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 53499 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 53637 | Vaults:5 | Reached XP level 23. HP: 128/128 MP: 35/35
 53789 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 53961 | Vaults:5 | Reached skill level 19 in Stealth
 54160 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 54272 | Vaults:5 | Reached skill level 15 in Throwing
 54523 | Vaults:5 | Received a gift from Trog
 54608 | Vaults:5 | Got a fine helmet
 54609 | Vaults:5 | Identified the cursed -3 helmet of Amorality {rC+ Slay+5} (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Short sword       |    94 |   148 |   256 |    85 |       |       |       |       ||   583
       Rapier            |       |       |       |   123 |    21 |       |       |       ||   144
       Dagger            |       |       |       |   795 |       |     4 |       |       ||   799
       Unarmed           |       |       |       |     3 |       |       |       |       ||     3
       Quick blade       |       |       |       |     5 |   993 |  1628 |  1838 |   762 ||  5226
       Blowgun           |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |       |    22 |    71 |   140 |   169 |    42 |     4 ||   448
       Greatsling        |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       |       ||     2
Throw: Stone             |    28 |   173 |   113 |   262 |   494 |       |       |       ||  1070
       Throwing net      |     2 |       |       |     1 |       |       |     4 |       ||     7
       Tomahawk          |       |       |       |     3 |    34 |   421 |   263 |       ||   721
       Javelin           |       |       |       |       |     5 |    23 |   174 |    55 ||   257
Invok: Berserk           |     2 |     2 |     3 |     3 |     2 |     1 |     2 |     1 ||    16
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |     1 |       |     1 |     3 |     5 |     5 |     4 ||    19
       Brothers in Arms  |       |       |     1 |     4 |     1 |       |     2 |     4 ||    12
       Trog's Hand       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |     4 |     5 ||    11
 Abil: Evoke Flight      |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       ||     1
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     2 |     3 |     8 |     5 |     4 |     4 ||    26
       Rod               |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |     8 |     6 ||    16
       Phantom mirror    |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Lamp of fire      |       |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       ||     3
       Deck              |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |     2 |    14 |     6 |    13 |    13 |    16 |    13 |    11 ||    88
       Potion            |       |       |     5 |     2 |     1 |     9 |     1 |     1 ||    19
 Stab: Sleeping          |       |     4 |     7 |     4 |     8 |    53 |    34 |    15 ||   125
       Distracted        |       |     1 |       |     1 |     7 |     4 |    11 |     6 ||    30
       Paralysed         |       |       |     1 |       |     1 |       |     1 |       ||     3
       Held in net/web   |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       |       ||     1
       Invisible         |       |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       ||     2
  Eat: Pizza             |     1 |       |     2 |       |     1 |     2 |     2 |       ||     8
       Chunk             |       |     3 |       |       |     3 |     2 |       |       ||     8
       Bread ration      |       |     2 |     2 |       |     1 |       |     2 |     3 ||    10
       Beef jerky        |       |     1 |       |       |     2 |     2 |     1 |       ||     6
       Meat ration       |       |       |     1 |     5 |     3 |     7 |     6 |     2 ||    24
       Fruit             |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |     1 |     2 ||     4
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |       |     1 |       |       |       ||     1

This helm:
  Code:
the cursed -3 helmet of Amorality {rC+ Slay+5}

is the thing in question...

My AC isn't terribly high to begin with (Although I think there are a couple options regarding that I could employ to mitigate that, none of them are super exciting though, I'd have to try on some blue plate or chain mails, or use "the +8 chain mail "Pyzaotau" {Int+4 Dex+2}")
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Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1337

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Post Thursday, 19th March 2015, 23:26

Re: -5AC for +5 Slaying?

You are a VS using a quickblade with the sum of your str/dex being 44, which means that your bite should trigger on 44 out of 49 attacks.

Slaying would be worth much, much more than 5 measly AC.

If you want the raw numbers, then here's how fsim looks like against a yak without the 5 slaying:
  Code:
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     13.2 |     39 |      80% |  10.6 |    30  |  3.33 |     35.4
Defending:      7.9 |     18 |      59% |   4.7 |   100  |  1.00 |      4.7

and here's with:
  Code:
           AvHitDam | MaxDam | Accuracy | AvDam | AvTime | AvSpeed | AvEffDam
Attacking:     17.6 |     48 |      82% |  14.5 |    30  |  3.33 |     48.4
Defending:      7.9 |     18 |      57% |   4.6 |   100  |  1.00 |      4.6

that's an enormous difference and it would be silly to wuss out on it just because you'll take a little bit of extra damage that your bite will likely replenish anyhow.
Last edited by Bloax on Thursday, 19th March 2015, 23:29, edited 1 time in total.
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

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Abyss Ambulator

Posts: 1182

Joined: Tuesday, 13th September 2011, 20:34

Post Thursday, 19th March 2015, 23:26

Re: -5AC for +5 Slaying?

Generally a small hit to AC for a decent bonus to slaying is worth it on quick blade wielding, EV focused builds. You've still got enough backup AC to fill in the gaps as well.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6454

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Post Friday, 20th March 2015, 00:17

Re: -5AC for +5 Slaying?

Well, the reason I even debate it is I *know* that 0 slaying (or even better 3 slaying from my ring) is enough damage to finish the game with a +9 quickblade and VS bite, however 20ish AC seems to get me into trouble a lot, I do much better when my AC is closer to 30. (Particularly in Vaults:5 where I am now, clusters without good choke points and all)

I do realize that +5 slaying is really a large addition to my damage output, and 5 AC isn't a huge addition to my defense, I'm just not convinced I really need the slaying.

I think I'll poke around through the dropped blue body armours and see if there's one that both gives me rF+ and is at least some more AC (With 20 str I can certainly wear heavier body armour than ring mail and still do ok)

I guess technically I could swap out the slaying ring for a rF ring and the body armour for some just better-enchanted body armour or something, and still come out ahead, but I like the idea of getting 8 total slaying on a VS.
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Barkeep

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Joined: Tuesday, 11th January 2011, 12:28

Post Friday, 20th March 2015, 01:00

Re: -5AC for +5 Slaying?

Bloax wrote:If you want the raw numbers, then here's how fsim looks like against a yak without the 5 slaying:

Also that yak is gonna have a hell of a time getting a spell off.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 20th March 2015, 02:46

Re: -5AC for +5 Slaying?

Well I also think yaks might be extinct in my game, or at least irrelevant.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 20th March 2015, 12:54

Re: -5AC for +5 Slaying?

On a VS, I would not hesitate for even an instant before choosing the +5 slaying helmet, no matter what my AC is. Adding a quickblade to the mix just makes things absurd. The extra value from the +5 slaying is really hard to overstate.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Friday, 20th March 2015, 14:10

Re: -5AC for +5 Slaying?

Siegurt wrote:Well, the reason I even debate it is I *know* that 0 slaying (or even better 3 slaying from my ring) is enough damage to finish the game with a +9 quickblade and VS bite, however 20ish AC seems to get me into trouble a lot, I do much better when my AC is closer to 30. (Particularly in Vaults:5 where I am now, clusters without good choke points and all)

You aren't relying only on AC. With the slaying helmet you have 21 / 36 / 15 defenses which is really good. Even without any AC it would be enough. You can get somewhat of a choke point in V:5 by just immediately going to the very edge where there are width 2 corridors, away from the corners so fewer enemies hear you. That's the easiest way to do V:5.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 20th March 2015, 15:08

Re: -5AC for +5 Slaying?

Berder wrote:
Siegurt wrote:Well, the reason I even debate it is I *know* that 0 slaying (or even better 3 slaying from my ring) is enough damage to finish the game with a +9 quickblade and VS bite, however 20ish AC seems to get me into trouble a lot, I do much better when my AC is closer to 30. (Particularly in Vaults:5 where I am now, clusters without good choke points and all)

You aren't relying only on AC. With the slaying helmet you have 21 / 36 / 15 defenses which is really good. You can get somewhat of a choke point in V:5 by just immediately going to the very edge where there are width 2 corridors, away from the corners so fewer enemies hear you. That's the easiest way to do V:5.


That's not what I meant by "choke point". Yes, I use the corridors on the edge, I have cleared the current iteration V:5 dozens and dozens of times. I think I've only died in V:5 once in .14/.15/.16 (When did we get the open-cornered V:5 vaults again?) By "choke point" I meant "place where only one enemy can attack me at a time" which as I said is rare or nonexistent in V:5.

I'm occasinoably being attacked by 2-4 creatures at a time on the edge (Well, 4 is rare, usually it's 2 or 3, sometimes with a titan in the back airstriking me for a worst-case scenario) obviously I try to draw 1 creature out at a time, but high monster density means sometimes pulling 2-5 (And of course I fight the welcome party in the corridors, which is always a large chunk of critters at once) 20/30/15 is more than enough for any single V:5 creature, obviously, it's the occasional rare cluster of multiple creatures where I start to get chunks of HPs removed with the lower ACs. Since VS don't have any direct healing I prefer to keep my hps higher than I would with another race. Of course VS's excellent regen helps with this until and unless the amount of incoming damage starts exceeding my ability to regenerate it.

When I said "trouble" I meant "situations where I have to use some sort of consumable and/or piety to win" and I also meant "I tend to get into those sorts of situations much less frequently with defenses around 30/30/15 than with 20/30/15"

EV roughly as good as AC at reducing the average damage done (Yes depending on how much you have and what sort of critter is beating on you) and yes, I have good EV right now, but AC (well, and in particular heavier body armour) is better at reducing the *burst* damage done, that is to say, AC is better at preventing the worst-case scenario, EV doesn't do anything to make damage less spikey, just less frequent. That's usually a very good thing for VS, more time between hits means more time to regen for VS, which is why I tend to favor EV-heavier builds for VS (That and the fact that stealth/shortblades go well with their bites for a low XP investment, and shortblades mean shields for me, which means even more advantage for regen-in-combat)

However, I'd slightly prefer to have both numbers around 30 for approaching the end (or post) game than have 20ish AC and 35-40ish EV.

That doesn't mean this small (and relatively minor in terms of game-effect) preference isn't worth the 5 slaying bonus, but it *is* worth taking a few minutes to rummage through the glowing body armours in the game looking for one that would get me closer to what I consider a "safer" zone in terms of AC for the depths and zot (I haven't decided how much if any of extended I'll do, probably abyss at least, stealthy VS probably have an easier time with the Abyss than with V:5, but I didn't feel like backtracking for it), particularly considering I have the strength to use a heavier armour without sacrificing more than 1-2 points of EV, and haven't been neglecting my armour skill (You'll note it's only slightly below my dodging)
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