How do you build Warpers?


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Slime Squisher

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Post Sunday, 25th January 2015, 19:58

How do you build Warpers?

I enjoy playing Nagas, and Warpers are one of their recommended backgrounds. However, unless I am sublimely lucky with drops, I will normally splat between D:5 and somewhere in Lair. Clearly I'm doing something wrong, probably with the skills.

I know they are hybrids, but how should I think of Warpers? Sort of Enchanters ? Gladiators but with an escape? Skalds but with Tloc? Arcane Marksmen but with Tloc? (if AM w/Tloc, why for Pete's sake do they start with melee?)
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Barkeep

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Post Sunday, 25th January 2015, 20:00

Re: How do you build Warpers?

Fighters/Gladiators that have a book, with less strength and more int. (So yes, like skalds pretty much.)


EDIT:

To be more helpful: Picking up shroud of golubria and blink are the most helpful. Teleport Other is handy too, but YMMV, I find it skippable if I pick up a couple of decent hex wands before too late. Passage is a lot of fun and helpful but shouldn't be a priority in my experience, ditto with portal projectile, unless you have some unusually good luck by finding a really good launcher and enough ammo.

I'd begin by playing it like a gladiator, essentially, but then getting a couple of levels in charms once that has become cheap, so shroud is better. But I have the most success when I focus more on "physical" skills, getting just enough magic for blink and shroud to be decent. (Which will make apportation okay for the time too.)

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Dis Charger

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Post Monday, 26th January 2015, 08:40

Re: How do you build Warpers?

Am I the only one who finds that your "dolphin" pic totally look like a shark ? ;-)

PProj is cheap and you can use it with some Throwing, don't bother with a launcher if you find some tomahawks/javelins
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 27th January 2015, 20:33

Re: How do you build Warpers?

IMO, play a warper like a gladiator with blink. Don't bother training magic or throwing for a long time, just train mostly your weapon skill, and in second place your fighting skill, and in third place armor/dodging whichever you are basing your defense around. Once you've reached lair and are able to kill everything (possible exception of hydras), then it's time to branch out, either more magic or more throwing.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 27th January 2015, 23:41

Re: How do you build Warpers?

I think part of my problem is that I've felt like Warpers should be ranged, instead of melee, especially since most of their skills help keep distance between you and the things. While it's good for Melee guys to have an escape, but Shroud is the only thing in the book that directly helps in Melee. Apportation gets things so you don't have to get in melee range; Blink moves you randomly (mostly *away*), Tele Other is Duh, and Portal, among other things, lets you set up a killzone in a more open space (if you are ranged).

What do y'all think about the Warper book synergizing better with ranged than melee?
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Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 28th January 2015, 00:06

Re: How do you build Warpers?

Tele Other does not seem to be particularly slanted towards ranged characters; I've always viewed it as the get away from me, creep! spell for use on uniques and out-of-depth monsters.

CTele isn't in the Warper book anymore, is it? That used to be the pièce de résistance of the Warper book for me, like Battlesphere for the Conjuror book, or Slave for the Enchanter book.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Wednesday, 28th January 2015, 13:44

Re: How do you build Warpers?

My best run so far has been with a HeWr, which I was fully planning on developing as a ranged character until I got handed a +4 Triple Sword of Holy Wrath and a +2 Triple Sword of Freezing on L1 and just gave up on the whole bow idea to dump xp into Long Blades.

Splatted on V1 when I couldn't kill a Deep Elf Demonologist fast enough to get rid of the summoned Executioner that was chewing me up :x

But +1 on playing them as a Gladiator with a book. I don't raise TLoc much past 3 or 4 early on depending on the armor I find, just enough to keep Blink reliable and Shroud castable.

CTele is not in the starting book.

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Post Wednesday, 28th January 2015, 14:49

Re: How do you build Warpers?

I found Wr is a good background for melee Na, it partially solves slowness problem. Teleport Other + Brilliance saved my life after getting shafted down 3 levels, Passage of Golubria is useful later to get closer to ranged monsters in the open, Blink helps not to get surrounded and Shroud of Golubria helps to deal with low defenses early game.
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Slime Squisher

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Post Wednesday, 28th January 2015, 15:54

Re: How do you build Warpers?

dolphin wrote:I think part of my problem is that I've felt like Warpers should be ranged, instead of melee, especially since most of their skills help keep distance between you and the things. While it's good for Melee guys to have an escape, but Shroud is the only thing in the book that directly helps in Melee. Apportation gets things so you don't have to get in melee range; Blink moves you randomly (mostly *away*), Tele Other is Duh, and Portal, among other things, lets you set up a killzone in a more open space (if you are ranged).

What do y'all think about the Warper book synergizing better with ranged than melee?


I kind of agree with this.

Portal of Golubria(?) is actually great for stabbers, can be used as a makeshift shadowstep. For regular fighters, its basically a weird cBlink I guess.

Warpers get a lot in the way of tactical escape and engagement options but pretty much no extra muscle at all.
I would get rid of Blink in their starting book (portal is very interesting, and with blink it doesn't shine as much. It and teleport other should be enough to avoidspecific threats. Blink is very effective, but very boring and very easy to come by - books, mutations, items) and replace it with something that gives them a bit more mmph.


And about the ranged thing... Apportation, portal projectile and blink are low level spells, so the fact they are from a different school doesn't mean they are not a good fit for arcane marksmen. Probably better than Enslavement or Corona. Maybe too good

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 28th January 2015, 16:49

Re: How do you build Warpers?

Blink is the best spell in Wr book, removing it would be a significant nerf.

Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 28th January 2015, 16:51

Re: How do you build Warpers?

Sandman25 wrote:Blink is the best spell in Wr book, removing it would be a significant nerf.

yeah, blink is boring, but it's the biggest advantage wr has, since it's a very reliable escape early game and easy to cast
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Slime Squisher

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Post Wednesday, 28th January 2015, 17:13

Re: How do you build Warpers?

DrKe wrote:
Sandman25 wrote:Blink is the best spell in Wr book, removing it would be a significant nerf.

yeah, blink is boring, but it's the biggest advantage wr has, since it's a very reliable escape early game and easy to cast


Well, maybe Passage could be made a level 3 spell?

I feel that having both Blink and Passage is a bit redundant, and out of the two Passage is definitely more interesting.

If removing Blink is a nerf to an already weak background we could brainstorm a little on how to make the rest of the spells more interesting. I think they are in quite a bad state right now.

For example, I feel Apportation is there because its the only level 1 spell that kind of fits. It doesn't have use early on other than taking gold over deep water or teleport traps, which is meaningless as flight is widely available and stasis often is.

Blink is great but boring.

Teleport other should be irresistible except in extreme cases. Casting power and monster HD should determine how long it takes to act, deterministically. The monster vanishes instantly if you do well, it can take hundred of turns if you don't and it will fail if he is just too much for you. Dont make the player waste turns on casting something that won't even kill or damage the thing

Passage of Golubria is great and interesting, maybe a bit expensive. Not because 4 MP is a lot but because of the spell slots it takes. It should also work differently under -cTele instead of just not working, maybe just create one very short lived portal anywhere in LOS

Shroud of Golubria is decent but a bit clunky. Would be nice if it worked like Repel Missiles (and they could be exclusive)

Portal Projectile is great though I am not sure if it belongs in this background

Snake Sneak

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Post Wednesday, 28th January 2015, 17:22

Re: How do you build Warpers?

Pereza0 wrote:Shroud of Golubria is decent but a bit clunky. Would be nice if it worked like Repel Missiles (and they could be exclusive)

this is actually a pretty cool idea, the exclusive part

i don't really like casting shroud constantly but i wouldn't want it getting the rmsl treatment to have 2 no-brainer permaspells to cast

it's worth noting that skald also gets shroud which kinda sucks for warper as it's quite thematic for them
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Spider Stomper

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Post Thursday, 29th January 2015, 00:04

Re: How do you build Warpers?

Blink + a sling + oka should get you through most of the game.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Thursday, 29th January 2015, 00:32

Re: How do you build Warpers?

dirtywick wrote:Blink + a sling + oka should get you through most of the game.

Why a sling?

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 29th January 2015, 00:35

Re: How do you build Warpers?

Because you can use it effectively on D:1 (Bows and crossbows are harder to make work in the early game, as your supply of arrows and bolts is limited)
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Halls Hopper

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Post Thursday, 29th January 2015, 00:43

Re: How do you build Warpers?

Siegurt wrote:Because you can use it effectively on D:1 (Bows and crossbows are harder to make work in the early game, as your supply of arrows and bolts is limited)

Really? I've never had a problem with starting with a bow. It's D:1 - just lift a shortsword from a hobgoblin and stab things. (unless you're playing a race that dies to a stiff breeze, of course, but then you have a host of different problems, like why you aren't going for a stabbing build)

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