Portal behavior

[GlassGo]

Sorry, no time look through 10 pages filled with links on word "portal".

What happaned if i leave floor where timed portal is (Volcano) to get and equip my rF+ gear, and then return?
The portal will be closed?

[Confidence Interval]

Yes. You only get one chance at that and if you leave you can't return.

[GlassGo]

I mean, not Volcano, but floor in Lair, where the portal to Volcano is.

[Confidence Interval]

Sorry, I misread. The portal is timed so it depends on how long you take. After a while it will close and you won't be able to get in so it depends on how far away your things are. If you have even one pip of rF already I would suggest going in as you are. With no rF it's a bit more of a gamble.

[GlassGo]

Well, i have 2 rF+ already, but i want to be sure i can walk on lava. )
Thank for answer, and, maybe worth it to add this info on wiki?

[Confidence Interval]

You can only cross lava by flying, as far as I know. rF++ is more than enough for volcano - just remember to drop your scrolls before you enter if you don't to risk having them all burned up.

[indspenceable]

Volcanos can be dangerous no matter how much rF you have. I've met hell knights there.

[and into]

Drop scrolls that won't help you and excess scrolls but it is probably a good idea to have your escape consumables on hand when entering a possibly dangerous area. Rf++ is going to help a lot but as indspenceable pointed out, there's also substantial physical damage threats in addition to fire, so don't let your guard down. If you feel the character is pretty strong and you already have some fire resistance, it is probably worth giving the volcano a shot, though.

[GlassGo]

Well, this time I met two portals at one floor.
What is their behavior? If I dive in one - another will be lost?

[tedric]

Probably, again it depends how long you take in the first portal. I have definitely had floors where I was able to complete an easy portal and still get to the entrance of the second in time, but it's rare.

[xentronium]

If there are 2 portals on a level, there are some things to consider based on what knowledge you have.
If you have magic mapping you can usually differentiate portals based on the terrain adjacent to them.

1. Volcanos: lava tiles nearby. These are quick to finish, so you should usually do them first. Loot is generally poorer.
2. Ice caves: icy ground tiles nearby. These can take a while, but the loot is excellent.
3. Labyrinth: no special tiles nearby. Can also take a while to finish, loot is also excellent.

Note that labyrinth portals time out more quickly than others, so when in doubt I'd say the order should be Volcano->Lab->ice cave.

[KoboldLord]

You have around 600~900 turns for each portal these days, with some variation depending on portal type. Labyrinths used to be a whole lot faster than the other kinds, but now they're faster but not nearly as much faster. If you magic map immediately and book it to the nearest portal, it is still possible to get both portals on a single level, but if you get bogged down fighting or resting on the way to one or the other portal, or within the first portal's level, you may not be in time for the second one. Getting both should be considered exceptional good luck. Portal timers no longer slow down when you're off-level. Timed bazaars should usually be taken first because they're especially likely to be lucrative and you are guaranteed to be able to rifle through their contents without wasting too many turns on the other timer, but in all other cases you're looking at a judgment call involving probable risk, probable reward, and the probable time investment. If you check the ice cave first on a double portal level and get an ice fiend version, for instance, you can march right back out and go to the other portal instead.

Generally speaking, you aren't expected to need much in the way of resistances or gear for portal vaults. A pip of resistance is nice, but generally they're supposed to spawn before you can expect to have reliable resistances. I would definitely take a pip if I had one, but nobody could be reasonably expected to have two or three pips by this point. Most of the cloud hazards can be mostly avoided if you recognize their pattern, and the monsters can frequently kill you even if you do have the relevant resistance.

The recommendation above to drop scrolls is no longer current, if anybody is wondering about that. It was posted in 2013. Now you can use potions of resistance and haste in ice caves and scrolls of fog or blinking in volcanoes with no problem, and you probably should do so.

[GlassGo]

Well, I did a wrong choice (before read your answer). Labyrinth was 2 tiles from me, but I decide to go Ice Cave (on the other side of floor), because I thought timer ticks while you are in another portal, and Labyrinth may delay you for a long time.
Thanks anyway.

[and into]

I'd only add that wands of digging and/or disintegration are really helpful in many portal vaults, particularly ice caves.

[tedric]

one of my most gleeful crawl memories is from the first time i ran an ice cave as an EE and realized that in addition to using LRD to chisel out shortcuts/killholes, it was full of ice statues/ice beasts/simulacra that I could pop like -- well, frozen popcorn

[nilsbloodaxe]

Well, I did a wrong choice (before read your answer). Labyrinth was 2 tiles from me, but I decide to go Ice Cave (on the other side of floor), because I thought timer ticks while you are in another portal, and Labyrinth may delay you for a long time.
Thanks anyway.

I think you read that wrong. Once you know a portal exists, its timer starts, and continues to count down at the same rate regardless of where you are (If I am reading the post correctly, it used to be slower if you were off-level).

[GlassGo]

Yeah, as I said - I made wrong choice. ) But Labyrinth can be really a huge waste of time.

[notcluie]

s/can be/is always

[njvack]

I'd only add that wands of digging and/or disintegration are really helpful in many portal vaults, particularly ice caves.

... and if you've mapped the level, they can be helpful in getting from one portal to the other very fast.

[Sar]

@notcluie: I had some really fast labs and some really long ones.

[xentronium]

Any way to look up average number of turns it takes to figure out a labyrinth?

[ZipZipskins]

@notcluie: I had some really fast labs and some really long ones.

also sometimes they give you excellent stuff. other times they don't. basically if you feel like doing a maze for the possibility of sweet things you should do them. recommendations against labyrinths are generally from people who either are so skilled at the game that they don't feel like doing something tedious to increase their odds of winning, or from people who think they ought to be that skilled, I've found.

[Sar]

Labs on average have absolutely amazing loot.

[daggaz]

I dont know, labyrinth definitely used to have awesome loot, these days (sometime in one of the last couple updates) it seems like it's much more of a crap shoot. Somewhat less loot and definitely less chance of superb items.

I still do it every time tho, because its easy and usually very fast. If you are very unlucky and dont have digging, labyrinth can take a while, but often you can get to the center in under a minute real time.

[mopl]

I dont know, labyrinth definitely used to have awesome loot, these days (sometime in one of the last couple updates) it seems like it's much more of a crap shoot. Somewhat less loot and definitely less chance of superb items.

Clustering illusion

[Sprucery]

I don't understand. Have I been exceptionally lucky or am I just an amazing Lab solver? I honestly don't remember a single time in modern Crawl when a Lab has taken me a long time to finish. Also, the loot seems good enough. Lab is in fact one of my favourite portal branches. Occasionally the minotaur gives an interesting fight if the Lab is early.

[dornbeast]

I don't understand. Have I been exceptionally lucky or am I just an amazing Lab solver?

Yes.

[duvessa]

Labs don't take a long time absolutely, but they sure feel like it considering that they consist of nothing but manual exploration, something that the game automates everywhere else and explicitly calls "tedious" in the tutorial.

[mopl]

Labs can have awesome loot, for sure...

  Code:

k - a +7 triple sword of holy wrath.
You found it in a labyrinth.

[GlassGo]

Labyrinth becomes more interesting - I found there something like island in lava, where a few potions, scrolls and rings are.

[damiac]

If you changed labyrinths to instead be a 3 wide hallway with you at one end, and the minotaur and the escape at the edge of LOS, and charge some permafood for entry, it would functionally be pretty much the same. Nobody starves to death in labyrinths, and I don't think a whole lot of people die to the monsters that can spawn. The exploration is, as duvessa pointed out, nothing but an exercise in tedium, and in fact the the real trade in labyrinths is the players real time for some pretty good loot.

[crate]

I have no regrets about removing labyrinths from my crawl games.

[Piginabag]

I've had characters (ok fine, octopodes) that had a hell of a time killing the monsters in labyrinths, especially the minotaur. But the loot is potentially fantastic; got a orange crystal plate armor the from one other day (obviously not for the octopode). Labyrinths seem to love handing out jewelry and rods, and occasionally artifacts.

[damiac]

But wouldn't the labyrinth be much more interesting if the whole maze aspect was removed, and instead it was something more like a mini linesprint?

Of course, the name 'labyrinth' wouldn't be so appropriate anymore... but flavor < gameplay. You could just make the hallway from clear stone, and have a maze visible outside if it's important that there be a maze.

I mean, you see people saying 'I hate labs, they're so boring, and I get stuck in them for a long time sometimes'. And you see other people saying 'I find labs really easy to solve quickly'. What I have never seen as far as I can recall is someone saying 'Solving the labyrinth mazes is a lot of fun to me'.

[Siegurt]

Solving the labyrinth mazes is a lot of fun to me.

I've said this before, and I don't think I'm the only one.

[damiac]

Fair enough. I will say that I personally don't enjoy walking through the maze, but I do enjoy killing the minotaur and grabbing his loot. So I'd be fine with skipping the whole maze part. But it doesn't really detract much from the game for me, so if other people get enjoyment out of it, I wouldn't want to take it away from them.

[McGeekster]

Every time somebody said "lab" I thought "Wizlab", then I realized you all meant "Labyrinth". That took me longer to figure out than solving the damn maze itself.

[Rumbleguts]

Solving the labyrinth mazes is a lot of fun to me.

I've said this before, and I don't think I'm the only one.

I enjoy it too, and I enjoy recognizing that the boss fight is coming and buffing up, and then I enjoy slaughtering the Minotaur. And I love the loot. And I love being an EE in a lab. and I love having either a wand of digging or disintegration in a lab. And even without those I enjoy solving the lab. I love the entertaining exits to the abyss and hungry ghosts and discharged dig wands next to trapped skeletons.

I don't love it when I see four or five vaults in a lab; it makes the vaults feel less special.

[duvessa]

Solving the labyrinth mazes is a lot of fun to me.

I've said this before, and I don't think I'm the only one.

I don't think people enjoying manual exploration is a good reason to remove autoexplore and the map.

[Sprucery]

I don't think people enjoying manual exploration is a good reason to remove autoexplore and the map.

I think it's perfectly fine to have special places like Labyrinth and Abyss.

[damiac]

Well, labyrinths in particular are optional, although I would argue it's typically optimal play to go into labyrinths, as they're typically easy. So completing labyrinths, for people who find them tedious, is an optimal but tedious task, which does sort of go against the design philosophy.

The abyss isn't totally optional, it's quite possible to end up there just by autoexploring into a zot trap or banisher, so it's a much worse offender in that regard.

[GlassGo]

So, which branch can get a portal?
I noted that I never got portal in Tomb e.g. but got it in Crypt.
Never found anything about it on wiki, or just overlooked that.

[crate]

at least it's not sokoban

edit: um probably looking through the learndb entries for the portals will answer your questions.