Consumables and inventory management


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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 13:28

Consumables and inventory management

In all my games, I come to a point where inventory management becomes a thing. I'm pretty sure I tend to keep with me things that could easily be dropped, mainly consumables/wands.

When do you drop (if you ever pick) following items ? When do they become useless ?

Potions
  • Ambrosia : I use it in some situations early game, and sometimes to recover from lethal poison and save !curing, useless after Lair ?
  • Lignification : with low AC species (mainly Op), I benefit from the huge boost, I also use it when I find an early bee pack for rPois. Useless after Lair ?
Scrolls
  • Fear : I almost always forget to use it, it has a MR check. Is it still useful when monsters start to get some MR ? (past Lair)
  • Vulnerability : do you ever use those ?
Wands
  • Paralysis : MR check, I love it in Lair, but probably useless after Lair branches (good in Spider/Swamp imho)
  • Confusion : cf paralysis
  • Enslavement : cf paralysis
  • Slowing : cf paralysis
  • Polymorph : What is the check for it ? Probably not MR since we don't get the % in game.
    learndb wrote:polymorph[3/4]: Good targets for polymorph wand: killer bees, jellies, boggarts, harpies, electric eels, wasps, (very) ugly things, and well-equipped monsters (e.g. orc knights and hell knights).
    Useless after Orc ?
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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 13:57

Re: Consumables and inventory management

I generally stop collecting lignification after my AC gets to be around 20 and/or my equipment is good enough that merging it is a mistake. Ambrosia doesn't ever stop being useful.

Fear remains useful throughout the game because monsters as a whole never really start getting MR. Of course, if you happen to need to scare monsters that do have some MR, that's what vulnerability is for.

Once I've got a good selection of resources, I generally drop all but the one best hex wand I'm carrying. There's probably an argument for keeping more, but I tend to underuse them anyway.

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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 14:22

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Whenever I have 2 consumables that do essentially the same thing, I always wonder whether I should still carry both. (e.g. wand and potions of heal wounds, or wand and scrolls of teleport.)

Of course there are differences - most forms can't use wands, confusion disables scrolls and effectively wands, but unless I'm playing a transmuter or a mummy it seems to be relatively rare that the difference is relevant.

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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 14:49

Re: Consumables and inventory management

I tend to drop things that have mostly strategic uses, like Cure Mutation, Amnesia, EA/EW (if I'm not using them immediately.) If space is at a premium (i.e. I'm worshipping Nemelex), I also rarely bother carrying around things like Holy Word, Silence, and Immolation until I have a specific plan to use them in a tricky area. I always immediately drop any weaker conjuration wands (frost, flame and magic darts) once I'm past the early dungeon. I don't carry around many rings for swapping (which might be a bad idea on my part), as I never remember to swap them anyway. If I need a different ring/amulet for a particular area, I just Ctrl-F it when I need it.

I also generally drop books and Ctrl-F them as needed, unless I know I'm planning to learn a particular spell very soon. I also drop most perma-food (I try to keep at most one stack of 'slow' food and one stack of 'fast' food; usually rations and jerky/pizza.)

I never keep Ambrosia or Lignification, but that's mainly because I'm a bad player and have to find the right situation to use them. I also sometimes drop Berserk Rage, as I'm too scared to use it (it has gotten me killed before.) I use Fear a lot, though, especially early; by using it as one of my main escape tools early, I avoid using Blinking, keeping it available for later use against tougher enemies.

Nemelex is a funny case (have a Nemelex game going right now, in fact), as you not only need space for decks, but also want to carry lots of evocables to capitalize on your investment in Evocations. I try to address this by using my decks, wands and misc evocables as often as possible, with deck use even in maginally dangerous situations. I'm much more willing now to Deal Four in really tough situations, as I've yet to actually completely run out of decks, even with pretty heavy use. I do tend to accumulate (and sometimes leave behind) decks of Escape, since I prefer to just kill things and make escape unnecessary; I also find consumables are a lot more reliable for actually escaping, even when I Triple Draw to try to find a good escape option.

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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 15:03

Re: Consumables and inventory management

With about 15 evocations, haste + scroll of vulnerability + wand of polymorph (+ maybe blinking around to maintain a distance while you repeatedly zap him) is a nice and safe way to kill The Royal Jelly. He'll polymorph into something like a titan and can then be killed easily. Otherwise I don't use vuln/poly much.

What to drop? Well, these can always be dropped:
books
completely useless items like potion of poison
scrolls of brand weapon
scrolls of enchant weapon
scrolls of enchant armour
potions of lignification (beyond very early game)
wands of flame, frost, magic darts, slowing, random effects (beyond the early game)
scrolls of noise/torment (unless undead) (and immo is sometimes useful, YMMV)
potion of cure mutation
potion of restore abilities
scroll of amnesia
potion of mutation
all food except for meat rations (or bread rations), plus fruits if you're using high hunger spells or abilities
wand of polymorph
scroll of vulnerability
brilliance/magic on a MiBe
berserk/might/silence on a DEFE

These can often be dropped:
with low evocations, any attack wand after mid lair, unless you want them for hydras
even the good direct damage wands like wand of fire eventually stop being worth carrying, even with high evocations. But keep disintegration
Scroll of holy word
potion of flight
potion of cancellation
scroll of immolation
stone of tremors (sucks unless you have nothing else)
items duplicated by wands - no need for potions of haste if you have a wand of hasting with plenty of charges. It might be worth carrying potions of hw in addition to a wand of hw, though. You could instead choose to drop the wand.
Ambrosia - could be useful for healing in abyss, but I haven't been in many situations where I've needed them
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Dis Charger

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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 15:18

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Berder wrote:With about 15 evocations, haste + scroll of vulnerability + wand of polymorph (+ maybe blinking around to maintain a distance while you repeatedly zap him) is a nice and safe way to kill The Royal Jelly. He'll polymorph into something like a titan and can then be killed easily. Otherwise I don't use vuln/poly much.

As I quoted, there's a nice list of monsters that can be easily polymorphed. I'm not sure of the relialibility of the TRJ secret tech : last time I tried it (15 Evo iirc), I always got the "resist with almost no effort" message... How many attemps to you usually need ?
learndb wrote:hex messages[1/1]: These tell you how likely any given attempt is to succeed to within a band of %s: resists with almost no effort. < 25%; easily resists. < 36%; resists. < 50%; resists with significant effort. < 64%; struggles to resist. < 75%; barely resists


Berder wrote:with low evocations, any attack wand after mid lair, unless you want them for hydras
even the good direct damage wands like wand of fire eventually stop being worth carrying, even with high evocations.

I quite disagree. I probably overtrain Evo on most char (almost all of them have ~10 Evo in Lair, 15 in Vaults), but fire/cold/draining do great job even in Vaults. Good positionning allow you to hit several targets. ?Immo + wand of fire is my goto for TRJ...

Lasty wrote:Fear remains useful throughout the game because monsters as a whole never really start getting MR. Of course, if you happen to need to scare monsters that do have some MR, that's what vulnerability is for.

I think that most Vaults/Dephts monsters have correct MR... and I often think that using ?vulnerability when you want to read ?fear after is more risky because of your own MR ! Be sure not to be banished/paralyzed before even reading ?fear !
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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 15:27

Re: Consumables and inventory management

mopl wrote:
Berder wrote:With about 15 evocations, haste + scroll of vulnerability + wand of polymorph (+ maybe blinking around to maintain a distance while you repeatedly zap him) is a nice and safe way to kill The Royal Jelly. He'll polymorph into something like a titan and can then be killed easily. Otherwise I don't use vuln/poly much.

As I quoted, there's a nice list of monsters that can be easily polymorphed. I'm not sure of the relialibility of the TRJ secret tech : last time I tried it (15 Evo iirc), I always got the "resist with almost no effort" message... How many attemps to you usually need ?

Usually like 5. I've killed TRJ 9 times that way. Once or twice I've had to flee, recharge my wand of poly and try again. One time I gave up and killed him in the corridor, but the other times were successful.

Berder wrote:with low evocations, any attack wand after mid lair, unless you want them for hydras
even the good direct damage wands like wand of fire eventually stop being worth carrying, even with high evocations.

I quite disagree. I probably overtrain Evo on most char (almost all of them have ~10 Evo in Lair, 15 in Vaults), but fire/cold/draining do great job even in Vaults. Good positionning allow you to hit several targets. ?Immo + wand of fire is my goto for TRJ...

After vaults is about when the attack wands start to get less useful. They have such limited charges that if you rely on them they'll all get used up pretty quick, anyway, usually by vaults. Once you have phial/lamp/fan, those are usually better evocable options than a wand.
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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 16:15

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Berder wrote:What to drop? Well, these can always be dropped:
potions of lignification (beyond very early game)
wands of flame, frost, magic darts, slowing, random effects (beyond the early game)
scrolls of noise
wand of polymorph
scroll of vulnerability
berserk/might/silence on a DEFE


I disagree with these. Lignification is very strong for many characters through the end of the Lair branches. Low-level attack wands lose their usefulness fairly fast but can still take down a hydra. Noise I mostly drop, but can be useful to break mesmerization in Shoals. Polymorph is useful for the many low-MR, equipped enemies you run into, and vulnerability can make most enemies low-MR, both of which you illustrate in your Royal Jelly example. Berserk/Might/Silence are all very useful on a DEFE unless you go for the "can't touch filthy weapons" glass-cannon challenge condition.

Berder wrote:These can often be dropped:
with low evocations, any attack wand after mid lair, unless you want them for hydras
even the good direct damage wands like wand of fire eventually stop being worth carrying, even with high evocations. But keep disintegration
Scroll of holy word
potion of cancellation
scroll of immolation
stone of tremors (sucks unless you have nothing else)
Ambrosia - could be useful for healing in abyss, but I haven't been in many situations where I've needed them


I strongly disagree with these. Attack wands do reasonable damage and allow you to reach targets you might not be able to otherwise reach throughout a full three-rune game; advising people to drop them by mid-Lair is really bad advice. Scroll of holy word isn't often useful, but when it is it can be a life-saver, particularly in regions with liches. Potion of cancellation removes a variety of dangerous statuses like slow, mark, petrifying, dimensional anchor, etc. Scroll of immolation really depends on the character -- sometimes they represent the best (or even only) way to get out of a bad situation; generally I'll start dropping these late game once I have enough other tools. Stone of tremors is definitely the worst elemental evoker, but it's far from useless, and now that evokers stack it's less often that you want to ditch them. Ambrosia allows for incredibly quick mp/hp recovery between encounters, which comes up fairly often, and early in the game heals you fast enough to outpace most sources of incoming damage.

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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 16:32

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Are you kidding me- you want to be lignified inthe end of a lair branch?? Surrounded by merfolk javelineers, maybe? Sounds like a fun way to suicide. Lack of tele/blink/walking is hardly ever worth the frankly mediocre defenses from treeform, beyond the early game.

It sounds like you never drop items if you disagree with my entire list. I'd like to see your list of consumables you usually drop. Unless you have an inventory size of 104, you have to drop stuff when your inventory fills up. Maybe you misinterpreted me as saying to always drop all these items regardless of inventory space. Obviously it's only necessary to drop items if your inventory is packed, and it's a good idea to look at any of the items on my list as candidates.

Again, I'd like to see your list.
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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 18:00

Re: Consumables and inventory management

This is why I don't talk to you on IRC anymore. It should go without saying that I'm not advocating "charge into a giant mass of reaching monsters and drink lig derp derp hooray." Treeform has significant benefits, and it can turn a variety of dangerous situations into trivial ones.

Equally obviously, you can't carry every possibly-useful item, but you can carry an awful lot, and if you drop strategic items and obviously-obsolete wands when under inventory pressure, it's not hard to find room for the many actually-useful items that you advocate dropping, now that evokers stack.

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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 18:09

Re: Consumables and inventory management

in all honestly you pretty much dont have to drop items unless you worship Nemelex or use ranged combat

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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 18:26

Re: Consumables and inventory management

If you don't want to talk to me, don't. Don't simultaneously talk to me and complain about how you don't want to talk to me. You initiated this argument, not me.

Any time you use treeform you're stuck that way for a long time while any number of dangerous monsters attracted by the noise can wander around, find and kill you. It's just not smart unless you are having an early dungeon emergency. Even if you do it on a cleared level, more monsters could spawn and find you, and there would be nothing you could do to escape.

You may have a point about the elemental evocables stacking now. Personally, I usually didn't carry more than one or two of them anyway since those of a given type recharge one at a time. But yes, it could free up a few inventory slots.
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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 19:11

Re: Consumables and inventory management

I didn't initiate an argument, I disagreed with your advice and offered what I thought was more accurate advice on the same topic. You initiated an argument by responding with an angry tone and a deliberately exaggerated mischaracterization of what I wrote. I didn't point out how unpleasant it is to be in a conversation with you until you chose to make the conversation unpleasant.

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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 19:27

Re: Consumables and inventory management

mopl wrote:
  • Ambrosia : I use it in some situations early game, and sometimes to recover from lethal poison and save !curing, useless after Lair ?
  • Lignification : with low AC species (mainly Op), I benefit from the huge boost, I also use it when I find an early bee pack for rPois. Useless after Lair ?


I always pick up Ambrosia since I discovered it. I don't know why it's defaulted to not get picked up.

I stop drinking and using Lignification once I get high AC + high HP (if drinking it would hinder me rather than help me).

mopl wrote:
  • Fear : I almost always forget to use it, it has a MR check. Is it still useful when monsters start to get some MR ? (past Lair)
  • Vulnerability : do you ever use those ?


I always pick up and use Fear. I always keep some on me. Not sure when / if it stops working.
I have only used Vulnerability so I can Wand of Polymorph the The Royal Jelly. I could probably think of some other cases, but I don't really know. I guess if I came up against a really powerful non-spellcaster. Probably NOT good to use against a spellcaster who can hit you before you can hit them. I can't really speak for it, though.

mopl wrote:
  • Paralysis : MR check, I love it in Lair, but probably useless after Lair branches (good in Spider/Swamp imho)
  • Confusion : cf paralysis
  • Enslavement : cf paralysis
  • Slowing : cf paralysis
  • Polymorph : What is the check for it ? Probably not MR since we don't get the % in game.
    learndb wrote:polymorph[3/4]: Good targets for polymorph wand: killer bees, jellies, boggarts, harpies, electric eels, wasps, (very) ugly things, and well-equipped monsters (e.g. orc knights and hell knights).
    Useless after Orc ?


I only carry one wand of a type at a time, max.

I only carry two wands total of combo Enslavement/Paralysis/Confusion at a time. All three have sort of the same result. I have had tough times getting them to work nicely, but they are good early.

I stop carrying Slowing when I get powerful wands and I need inventory.

I carry Polymorph in case I come up against something I don't have +Resist for, like an electric eel or a sky beast; does the job well against invisible enemies. Works well in conjunction with Scroll of Vulnerability. Not useful against tough creatures because you don't want them accidentally getting stronger; great to force-drop equipment; not great when they become a dragon/titan.
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Post Wednesday, 31st December 2014, 20:06

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Lasty, perhaps I overreacted; looking back, I see that you didn't actually disagree with every single item I listed, but only with a selective majority of them. I thought you were just busting my balls but maybe you were interested in specific points.

If you want to talk about the specific items you cited, I'm game.
I disagree with these. Lignification is very strong for many characters through the end of the Lair branches. Low-level attack wands lose their usefulness fairly fast but can still take down a hydra. Noise I mostly drop, but can be useful to break mesmerization in Shoals. Polymorph is useful for the many low-MR, equipped enemies you run into, and vulnerability can make most enemies low-MR, both of which you illustrate in your Royal Jelly example. Berserk/Might/Silence are all very useful on a DEFE unless you go for the "can't touch filthy weapons" glass-cannon challenge condition.

You know my thoughts on lignification. Noise could be useful in shoals except that usually I find a wand of lightning which does the same thing and has more shots. Nothing about dropping an item says you can't come back for it later, when it's time to do shoals. Personally, I don't use polymorph much except for TRJ, but yes that is a strategic option one could exploit. However, confusion or paralysis is usually at least as good, if you're facing an enemy whose MR you can overcome, so I usually carry that instead. Vuln is so rare that I usually save it for TRJ instead of using it up on earlier enemies, so I don't carry it.

Berserk/might/silence are all theoretically useful on a DEFE. However, berserk should only be used if you are quite confident you can overcome all opponents in melee while berserked, which is rarely the case with a DEFE by the time you're worrying about too many inventory items. Even for most berserkers, berserk should be used less as the game advances through vaults and depths, due to the danger. Silence is very rare, and useful even more rarely, because in a time of danger it cuts off many options for escape and damage dealing, especially for a DEFE. It's not that it's useless, it's that the inventory slot could be better used for, say, a blowgun. Nothing stops you from picking silence up again when it's time to face the aliches in zot5. Might is more generally useful on a DEFE, but most of my mages haven't had that much occasion for might. It's not that they don't fight with melee, it's that they prefer to melee the weaker enemies where buffing is not necessary. So with me, on focused mages, might tends to eventually get bumped in favor of other items.

I strongly disagree with these. Attack wands do reasonable damage and allow you to reach targets you might not be able to otherwise reach throughout a full three-rune game; advising people to drop them by mid-Lair is really bad advice. Scroll of holy word isn't often useful, but when it is it can be a life-saver, particularly in regions with liches. Potion of cancellation removes a variety of dangerous statuses like slow, mark, petrifying, dimensional anchor, etc. Scroll of immolation really depends on the character -- sometimes they represent the best (or even only) way to get out of a bad situation; generally I'll start dropping these late game once I have enough other tools. Stone of tremors is definitely the worst elemental evoker, but it's far from useless, and now that evokers stack it's less often that you want to ditch them. Ambrosia allows for incredibly quick mp/hp recovery between encounters, which comes up fairly often, and early in the game heals you fast enough to outpace most sources of incoming damage.

I didn't advise people to drop attack wands by mid-lair, I said to do so if you aren't going to be training evocations. With high evocations, I later clarified that by the end of vaults is when they tend to lose their punch compared to other evocable items, not mid-lair. At 0 evocations, it's usually just a waste of a turn to use an attack wand in lair branches and beyond.

The items in this section were those that I said can "often" be dropped. They're all useful in some situations, so you don't want to drop them unless you're cramped for space and need to make compromises. But that happens. Would I rather carry a ring of fire resistance, or these potions of cancellation? I'll take the rF+. How about this ID'd legendary deck of escape, or this scroll of immolation? Escape please.

- Why would you be cramped for space? Well, maybe you're carrying a blowgun and curare/poison needles, or some throwing ammo, or several different weapons that have different resistances or damage types which you switch between. Maybe you found a few good rods, or a few different magical staves. Maybe you have a ring of teleportation or amulet of rMut that you aren't wearing, in case you get abyssed. Maybe you do have evocations and are using attack wands (for now). Maybe you want to keep a few inventory slots open so autopickup works without annoying you during autoexplore. I suspect the real difference between us is that you carry fewer of these non-consumables than I do. But the case can be made for their usefulness.
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Post Friday, 2nd January 2015, 04:14

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Berder wrote:potions of lignification (beyond very early game)

Wrong!
Just found Ice Cave portal. There was 1 (one) Ice Fiend. My char's level was 14 or 15, not sure.
On the first turn in LOS of Ice Fiend he use Torment!
I'ts not a problem if you have lichform, and it IS a problem, if you haven't and there are a dozen of simulacras besides Ice Fiend.
Tree Form has Torment immunity, friend.
I drunk it, and "open him like a pillow" or something like that. )
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Post Friday, 2nd January 2015, 09:01

Re: Consumables and inventory management

GlassGo wrote:
Berder wrote:potions of lignification (beyond very early game)

Wrong!
Just found Ice Cave portal. There was 1 (one) Ice Fiend. My char's level was 14 or 15, not sure.
On the first turn in LOS of Ice Fiend he use Torment!
I'ts not a problem if you have lichform, and it IS a problem, if you haven't and there are a dozen of simulacras besides Ice Fiend.
Tree Form has Torment immunity, friend.
I drunk it, and "open him like a pillow" or something like that. )

And what if you weren't able to kill all the simulacra and the ice fiend without moving? You would have died. And how could you know beforehand whether you were able to do that, or not? It's a huge gamble.

In that situation it would be better to lure away and kill the simulacra a few at a time. Only fight the ice fiend when conditions are ideal and it's just you and him. And be aware that at XL 14 or 15, an ice fiend is a supreme threat, treeform or no. His melee alone might take half your HP in a turn. It would be safer to stay out of treeform so you retain the ability to use a scroll of blinking to get away from him if the fight starts to turn sour. Or safer still simply to avoid him and not complete the cave. Or you could dig behind him, maybe lure him away in another direction, and steal the loot without killing him.
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Post Friday, 2nd January 2015, 09:44

Re: Consumables and inventory management

GlassGo wrote:
Berder wrote:potions of lignification (beyond very early game)

Wrong!
Just found Ice Cave portal. There was 1 (one) Ice Fiend. My char's level was 14 or 15, not sure.
On the first turn in LOS of Ice Fiend he use Torment!
I'ts not a problem if you have lichform, and it IS a problem, if you haven't and there are a dozen of simulacras besides Ice Fiend.
Tree Form has Torment immunity, friend.
I drunk it, and "open him like a pillow" or something like that. )

Yes, I love melding my rC and positioning ability in front of a bunch of monsters with high HD and af_cold too!

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Post Friday, 2nd January 2015, 14:25

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Using treeform against an ice fiend or simulacra isn't as suicidal as it sounds, though it would certainly be preferable to escape and deal with them one at a time (or not at all) if possible.

At XL 14, treeform has 27 AC, more if you have some form of bonus AC. Since ice fiends need to deal at least 1 damage with their melee to inflict extra ice damage, they have about a 1/5 chance of doing any damage on any given attack that hits you. If you also have a non-melded form of rC+ to lower the damage potential of bolt of cold, the total damage risk from the ice fiend is . . . well, still non-trivial, but no longer absolutely terrifying. If, for some reason, you are unlikely to be able to escape the situation, treeform will increase your odds of survival.

Of course, the iron troll simulacra and golden dragon simulacra which also exist in that vault have higher base damage, and their chance of getting massive bonus ice damage against you is significantly higher, making it more dangerous to be tethered near them, unless you have some way to prevent them from reaching you (a line of conjured flames, say).

Also, you could drink cancellation as soon as the ice fiend is dead and then walk away from the simulacra.

For this message the author Lasty has received thanks: 2
GlassGo, Sar

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Post Tuesday, 6th January 2015, 10:02

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Berder wrote:And what if you weren't able to kill all the simulacra and the ice fiend without moving? You would have died. And how could you know beforehand whether you were able to do that, or not? It's a huge gamble.

Absolutely wrong.
It's not a gamble in any meaning.
I was able to kill simulacra on the way to final chamber with Ice Fiend, if not - I wasn't able to get there.

It would be safer to stay out of treeform so you retain the ability to use a scroll of blinking to get away from him if the fight starts to turn sour.

Absolute bullshit.
It would be safer to get 2-3 Torment, complete with Bolt of Cold did you say?
You can run from Totment you said? From Bolt of Cold did you say?

Or safer still simply to avoid him and not complete the cave. Or you could dig behind him, maybe lure him away in another direction, and steal the loot without killing him.

This is not required if you have !lignification.

notcluie wrote:Yes, I love melding my rC and positioning ability in front of a bunch of monsters with high HD and af_cold too!

In that situation it sounds like "Yes, I love to get Torment in the face every turn". I can congratulate you on this.

Lasty wrote:Using treeform against an ice fiend or simulacra isn't as suicidal as it sounds, though it would certainly be preferable to escape and deal with them one at a time (or not at all) if possible.

Thanks! Pointless objection for objection was beginning to annoy me.
It was my DsCK, with glaive of chaos. With innate rCold. Even at 1\2 of HP I easily finished Ice Fiend.
English is NOT my native language.

Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 6th January 2015, 11:53

Re: Consumables and inventory management

GlassGo wrote:It's not a gamble in any meaning.
I was able to kill simulacra on the way to final chamber with Ice Fiend, if not - I wasn't able to get there.

This is strange reasoning. If you were facing similar numbers of simulacra before the final chamber, it sounds like you weren't properly luring enemies. Anyway, the final chamber is a difficult fight for almost any character at that XL. You said you lost half your HP even before the fiend got to you; a few bad rolls, or somewhat more dangerous simulacra in the mix, and you would have died before the fiend got to you. You were very lucky that you didn't die.
streaks: 5 fifteen rune octopodes. 15 diverse chars. 13 random chars. 24 NaWn^gozag.
251 total wins Berder hyperborean + misc
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Post Tuesday, 6th January 2015, 12:05

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Lasty wrote:Also, you could drink cancellation as soon as the ice fiend is dead and then walk away from the simulacra.


Gonna go out on a ...limb :D here, and mention that trees cant quaff potions? Or did they change that..

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Tuesday, 6th January 2015, 12:18

Re: Consumables and inventory management

GlassGo wrote:It was my DsCK, with glaive of chaos. With innate rCold. Even at 1\2 of HP I easily finished Ice Fiend.


Did you really voluntarily lignified yourself, before hitting a Ice Fiend with a Glaive of Chaos?
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

Dungeon Master

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Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Tuesday, 6th January 2015, 14:57

Re: Consumables and inventory management

daggaz wrote:Gonna go out on a ...limb :D here, and mention that trees cant quaff potions? Or did they change that..

http://s-z.org/neil/git/?p=crawl.git;a= ... e85cf0ab52
  Code:
Let non-undead forms eat and drink normally

Eating limitations added nothing but complication, and potion
restrictions were excessive for badforms that already had many
significant restrictions.


nago wrote:Did you really voluntarily lignified yourself, before hitting a Ice Fiend with a Glaive of Chaos?

Seriously, this isn't that bad. Your defenses become pretty effective vs ice fiends, and chaos can't berserk them . . . hasting it could be an issue, but not a huge one. Polymorph into hell sentinel is probably the only truly terrible case, and that's pretty unlikely.

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Post Tuesday, 6th January 2015, 17:26

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Berder wrote:You said you lost half your HP even before the fiend got to you; a few bad rolls, or somewhat more dangerous simulacra in the mix, and you would have died before the fiend got to you. You were very lucky that you didn't die.

It seems that nobody read what I wrote.
Yes, I lost halh of HP - because of Torment Ice Fiend cast on first turn he woke up.
So it was a choice of two options - I'll wait how many Torments and BoC he can cast, while I dealing with simulacra, OR I drink such divine !, and kill him without troubles.
Pros
+50% HP
+20+0.5×XL AC (+33 AC at level 27)
48% GDR
+10 strength
Unarmed Combat base damage is set to 12
Bonus to to-hit
Huge size (immunity to most types of constriction)
rPois
rN+++
Torment immunity
Stealth modifier is set to 27 (very high; from a comment in the source code, the player is "masquerading as scenery")
The player's hunger is set to Satiated (gaining nutrition from the ground via their roots), and they don't hunger


Did you see that +50% HP? 48% GDR? Bonus to-hit? It tells you about something?
Yes, I was lucky - I had !lignification in the pocket.
English is NOT my native language.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Tuesday, 6th January 2015, 18:46

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Lasty wrote:
nago wrote:Did you really voluntarily lignified yourself, before hitting a Ice Fiend with a Glaive of Chaos?

Seriously, this isn't that bad. Your defenses become pretty effective vs ice fiends, and chaos can't berserk them . . . hasting it could be an issue, but not a huge one. Polymorph into hell sentinel is probably the only truly terrible case, and that's pretty unlikely.


Well, even if we don't considered an hasted ice fiend a issue at 15ish level, it could be still (very rarely) duplicated, or free healed..or just blinked a couple of squares away, which means it could just land some free bolt of cold until it decided to return in the glaive's range...Overall I wouldn't never go with !lign + chaos, while !lign itself isn't a bad idea.
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Post Friday, 9th January 2015, 06:48

Re: Consumables and inventory management

Well, as a CK I use chaos brand, that is. As I remember, I disassemble him with 2 or 3 hits, and all strikes hit the target because of bonus to to-hit.
English is NOT my native language.

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