Buff scrolls of acquirement

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

One thing that came to mind is that what if armour acquirement never gave a "worse" item for a slot already in use? I guess it'd give a too appealing reason to hoard the scrolls instead of using them which would be undesirable. And probably overpowered?

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

Considering armour acquirement, I think it'd make sense to always give an item for a free slot (does it do that already?) and if it never was of negative enchantment it'd probably always end up being used as it'd at least never hurt your AC.

Edit: Always getting a +0-or-better item in a free slot would have the benefit of usually helping the player in the early game and later on it'd give the tactical option of selecting the slot the player would like to improve. An example: player has all armour slots full but only has a regular cloak. Removing the cloak before reading ?acquirement would have a chance of getting an ego cloak.

[jejorda2]

Then how do you avoid getting shields when wielding two-handers? Wear a buckler before reading the scroll? That's annoying.

[XuaXua]

Is the requirement for potential exclusion (1) FINDING the armour, or (2) HAVING WORN the armour, or (3) WEARING the armour WHILE reading the scroll?

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

Then how do you avoid getting shields when wielding two-handers? Wear a buckler before reading the scroll? That's annoying.

By not making shields eligible when wielding a two-hander?

[jejorda2]

Then how do you avoid getting shields when wielding two-handers? Wear a buckler before reading the scroll? That's annoying.

By not making shields eligible when wielding a two-hander?

That's pretty good.

What if I'm wielding yuiff's quarterstaff because it's the only staff I've found, but I hope to upgrade to an enhancer staff and a buckler?

I liked what I read crawl light did- just tell you what you would get if you picked each category, then let you pick from those choices. So you can decide "I'd rather have ten bread rations than another flaming scimitar or a +1 animal skin."

[XuaXua]

I liked what I read crawl light did- just tell you what you would get if you picked each category, then let you pick from those choices. So you can decide "I'd rather have ten bread rations than another flaming scimitar or a +1 animal skin."

Crawl standard could do this if you burn an extra ID scroll before you read the scroll of acquirement; might make a good bonus use of the ID scrolls, which currently tell you the top card of any deck you find. And, due to the variability of the scroll due to equipment held/found, it will "lock in" the values.

Then-again, are those values currently "locked in" (but hidden) at the time the scroll is generated or does randomization happen at the time of read?

[daggaz]

I know it's crawl and all, but from a coder's standpoint, why in the gods' names would you code in every possible choice once the scroll is generated? Muuuuch simpler (and faster and less memory intensive) to just roll up the item once the player makes their choice. I simply cannot imagine it not working in the latter way.

[XuaXua]

I know it's crawl and all, but from a coder's standpoint, why in the gods' names would you code in every possible choice once the scroll is generated? Muuuuch simpler (and faster and less memory intensive) to just roll up the item once the player makes their choice. I simply cannot imagine it not working in the latter way.

I'm asking based on that if crawl light does it, it's possible that crawl does it (invisibly). It's not how I'd do it either.

It's possible those choices are only created at the "time of reading"/"time of burning the scroll", and shown at that time, which means they aren't held onto for long.

If so, an "id'd Scroll of Acquirement" would perform similarly: show the player the choice results at the time of reading. You can walk around with an id'd SoA, but you won't know what you'll get for each category till you read it, and at that point, you must also choose.

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

What if I'm wielding yuiff's quarterstaff because it's the only staff I've found, but I hope to upgrade to an enhancer staff and a buckler?

Then you should just hold on to the scroll until you find a pool of lava and drop it in there in disgust.

I liked what I read crawl light did- just tell you what you would get if you picked each category, then let you pick from those choices. So you can decide "I'd rather have ten bread rations than another flaming scimitar or a +1 animal skin."

I like that idea as well. Something that gives the player a bit of a tactical option. Maybe an acquirement scroll could just give you two, or even three options, within the selected category? In terms of coding effort I'm not sure whether this would be easier or harder to implement than just rerolling based on a criteria outlined earlier in this thread.

Edit: On a second thought, the same effect could be achieved just by making acquirement scrolls less rare. I still like the idea of not getting crappy items (e.g. armour with negative enchantment) in the first place.

[Sprucery]

I liked what I read crawl light did- just tell you what you would get if you picked each category, then let you pick from those choices. So you can decide "I'd rather have ten bread rations than another flaming scimitar or a +1 animal skin."

This would be awesome, I'd love it. However, it would be a serious buff to acquirement. I very often choose wands because I'd like to get hasting or heal wounds. If I wouldn't get them, there would be a good chance that either weapon or armour would be useful, or jewellery, or a book. If all else fails, misc could work. I'd say that scroll of acquirement could be made twice as rare as it is now to compensate and I'd still love this feature.

[tasonir]

I also like the idea of seeing what you will get ahead of time, with the already mentioned fact that this is a major buff and they should be more rare. Current acquirement is also just fine, though. The point I want to make is that if the buffed see-before-you-select acquirement goes in, there's little point to making it require a scroll of ID, which isn't a meaningful cost. It'd be simpler and less spoilery to just have it always work that way.

[duvessa]

If you show acquirement results in advance, you might as well just generate the best item there instead of the scroll. The chance of there not being an obvious best item among the choices is really low. Admittedly this is pretty close to being true of current acquirement already, but only for spoiled players, and that last part is pretty bad.

[Sprucery]

If you show acquirement results in advance, you might as well just generate the best item there instead of the scroll.

How would you define 'the best item there' in code?

[duvessa]

I am making a game design statement. The point is that the acquirement choice would virtually always be a no-brainer (and you can see for yourself in Crawl Light!).

[Sprucery]

OK, I understand the point. I'm too lazy to check out myself and I know this is a lot to ask, but if anyone is playing Crawl Light I'd love to see some examples!

But like I said, it would be a serious buff and I doubt the devs would want to implement that kind of thing even with a compensation in rarity...

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

I'll reiterate my opinion: improving one's chances of getting a helpful item would be better than having a multiple choice. Multiple choice only makes a single scroll worth a number of scrolls, but never getting a piece of armour with a negative enchantment would all but guarantee that the acquired item would end up being used, even at +0.

I still maintain that always getting a piece of armour you are not wearing gives the player a tactical option, and who doesn't like a tactical option?

Edit 2: Fixed a typo, twice.

[duvessa]

You can test it out in regular Crawl too, just make a bunch of regular acquirements in wizard mode and compare each set. Here's what I got after making a HuFi and setting all skills to 15 (gold is omitted because I'm stupid):

Spoiler: show

  Code:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +8 rapier of the Spider {pierce, rElec rPois SInv}
Missiles
 b - 60 sling bullets of flame
Armour
 c - a +1 helmet of intelligence
Magical Staves
 d - an uncursed staff of poison
Jewellery
 e - the ring of Vej Frin {-Tele rF+ Dex+3 Stlth+}
Wands
 f - a wand of fireball (5)
Books
 g - a book of Maledictions
Miscellaneous
 h - a lamp of fire
Comestibles
 i - 3 meat rations

  Code:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +0 longbow of flaming
Missiles
 b - 30 sling bullets of frost
Armour
 c - a +2 cloak of poison resistance
Magical Staves
 d - an uncursed staff of energy
Jewellery
 e - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
Wands
 f - a wand of fire (7)
Books
 g - the Guide on Supportive Boosts
Miscellaneous
 h - a lamp of fire
Comestibles
 i - 13 royal jellies

  Code:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +0 glaive of chopping
Missiles
 b - 40 needles of slowing
Armour
 c - a +2 pair of gloves of strength
Magical Staves
 d - an uncursed staff of wizardry
Jewellery
 e - the ring of Prouxt {-Cast rN+ SInv}
Wands
 f - a wand of random effects (26)
Books
 g - Kikubaaqudgha's Catalogue of Evil
Miscellaneous
 h - a fan of gales
Comestibles
 i - 7 meat rations

  Code:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +8 lance "Wyrmbane" {slay drac, +Rage rPois rF+ AC+5}
Missiles
 b - 70 poisoned sling bullets
Armour
 c - a +0 pair of boots of flying
Magical Staves
 d - an uncursed staff of power
Jewellery
 e - the ring of the Empty Page {Int+4 Slay+5}
Wands
 f - a wand of hasting (4)
Books
 g - a book of Alchemy
Miscellaneous
 h - a lantern of shadows
Comestibles
 i - 3 meat rations

  Code:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +3 lajatang of electrocution
Missiles
 b - 45 arrows of dispersal
Armour
 c - the +15 Maxwell's patent armour {-Cast -Tele rElec MR+ rCorr}
Magical Staves
 d - an uncursed staff of death
Jewellery
 e - an uncursed ring of wizardry
Wands
 f - a wand of fireball (5)
Books
 g - the Almanac of Stones
Miscellaneous
 h - a phial of floods
Comestibles
 i - 3 meat rations

[Sar]

dat Bane of Wyrms

[crate]

damn misc acquirement is good

[ThreeInvisibleDucks]

damn misc acquirement is good

After learning about the usefulness of elemental evocables I agree. I'm playing 0.15.2 stable so nevermind them taking up inventory space but I read that now they even stack. Buff much?

[Sprucery]

damn misc acquirement is good

I was just about to say that.

[XuaXua]

What are the possibilities of Misc Acquirement?
If they are only elemental evocables, perhaps lean more towards Box of Beasts? Otherwise, perhaps they might be merged with a different option (wands) and generalized as Evocables?

Which one gives Rods? Misc?

[Arrhythmia]

Which one gives Rods? Misc?

Staffs