The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' thread


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Thursday, 16th June 2011, 19:11

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Is Labyrinth doable/worth doing with a Ghoul Monk that is NOT of Kiku ? I'm worried about the food because of the hp rotting but i'm not sure it's a real threat here...

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Post Friday, 17th June 2011, 05:15

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Will silence effects keep monsters from smiting you?

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Post Friday, 17th June 2011, 06:48

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

minmay wrote:Labyrinths are so short in turns that it's not a concern. Just as humans seldom lose even one ration, ghouls seldom lose more than a couple max HP, and will get those max HP right back anyway.

Add a "most of the time" here. From time to time you find one that takes ages to complete. I staid over 1h real time in one, even started mapping it all with screenshots pasted together...
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 17th June 2011, 15:49

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Playing trunk.

I have no resistances.

I put on unidentified standard ring.

I eat poisoned meat.

I'm not affected.

Ring is not identified yet.

I use ID Scroll.

It is ring of Poison Resistance.

Did it not identify because there is a chance I won't get poisoned by the poisoned meat?
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Post Friday, 17th June 2011, 17:17

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

XuaXua wrote:Playing trunk.
Did it not identify because there is a chance I won't get poisoned by the poisoned meat?

Around 0.6 that was changed. It used to be that eating/drinking poison identified a ring of poison resistance, but now it doesn't, presumably because you might have some other source of rPois that you don't know about. I think I remember reading a comment from one of the devs that there were too many sources of rPois, so it was too difficult to code use-ID of the ring. It only identifies through the scroll or a shop purchase now.

It would be nice if after I inscribe an item with {rPois}, I wouldn't get prompts before stepping into poisonous clouds or eating poisoned food.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 17th June 2011, 17:31

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

jejorda2 wrote:
XuaXua wrote:Playing trunk.
Did it not identify because there is a chance I won't get poisoned by the poisoned meat?

Around 0.6 that was changed. It used to be that eating/drinking poison identified a ring of poison resistance, but now it doesn't, presumably because you might have some other source of rPois that you don't know about.


But I didn't.

jejorda2 wrote:I think I remember reading a comment from one of the devs that there were too many sources of rPois, so it was too difficult to code use-ID of the ring.


Understandable.

jejorda2 wrote:It would be nice if after I inscribe an item with {rPois}, I wouldn't get prompts before stepping into poisonous clouds or eating poisoned food.


Suggestion +1.
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Dungeon Master

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Post Friday, 17th June 2011, 19:07

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

In such a situation, I'd inscribe the ring with rP myself, so as not to accidentally identify it.
It would be ideal if that game would auto-id completely. But that needs a lot of logic, and that effort is probably better spent elsewhere.

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Post Saturday, 18th June 2011, 00:09

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Happy Corner wrote:Will silence effects keep monsters from smiting you?

If it's within the range of your Silence, yes.

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Post Saturday, 18th June 2011, 05:06

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Does the regeneration mutation affect your metabolism like the ring of regeneration does? (ie Does it only speed up your metabolism when you're recovering HP?)

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Post Saturday, 18th June 2011, 05:16

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Happy Corner wrote:Does the regeneration mutation affect your metabolism like the ring of regeneration does? (ie Does it only speed up your metabolism when you're recovering HP?)


The fast healing mutation and the rapid metabolism mutation are distinct mutations. One does not imply the other. Trolls just happen to have both of them, but that won't be standard for characters picking up one or the other from the mutation lottery.

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Post Saturday, 18th June 2011, 13:44

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

galehar wrote:
dassem wrote:Earlier I found an iridescent double sword in a transparent rock (or crystal - I forget) area, sitting on a teleport trap.
I now have digging, disintegrate and cTele. I don't have corruption, apportation, high-level earth, or -Tele yet.

Can I go back to get the sword or is it just there to tease me?

You need LRD to break the walls. You don't even need a high power.


I was going to say that I don't like this vault, since it favors magic users too much, but I guess the key question is: Do you really need to destroy the walls? ;-)

... Obviously for this thread, this is spoily:
I went back with a ring of teleportation and a ring of cTele. After spamming that a few times, I landed on the sword, cancelled the next one and now have the +5,+0 double sword "Frangaic" (weapon) {flame, Stlth++}.
I love the idea of a huge flaming sword that makes you more stealthy. :twisted:
Interestingly, my last 3 characters that got to (or close to) lvl 27 didn't find cTele at all, so I felt quite lucky. I also have a nice evokable blink. :mrgreen:

I am currently having a lot of fun sneaking up and whacking things, but I also just got the demonspawn claws 3 mutation.
That leads to a rhetorical question: Why is it that I only get that mutation when I am relying on my gloves of strength to help me carry all my loot, instead of when I am trying a transmuter?
And a more serious question: Should I use that sword, or switch to unarmed, or both?
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Post Saturday, 18th June 2011, 15:58

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Erm, how to enchant needles? How to wield or quiver needles, on the first place? [w] does not work, I guess...
If you find any mistakes or typos in my post, feel free to PM me about it. Thanks in advance!

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Post Saturday, 18th June 2011, 17:41

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

w works, it's just that needles aren't on the short list of things to wield, so they aren't in the menu. If you use i to find the letter, you can just do wx, using whatever the inventory letter is instead of x.

You can also use w* to see the whole inventory menu while wielding.

Quivering needles only makes sense when wielding a blowgun (they can't be launched by hand or with anything besides a blowgun), but Q* will let you quiver anything you can hold.

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Vestibule Violator

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Post Saturday, 18th June 2011, 17:46

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Appropriate ammunition is auto-quivered. If you switch to a blowgun, needles will be queued up to be fired for you automatically. Use '(' and ')' to cycle through available ammunition without time passing. You can't enchant quivered ammo though (the scroll would effect the launcher instead)- you have to wield it as described above for that.

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Post Sunday, 19th June 2011, 06:12

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

What is the difference between stones and sling bullets in terms of damage with slings? So far the only difference I found is that stones are always +0 while sling bullets can be magical. I have been thinking about collecting a bunch of stones, since they are so common, and enchanting them.
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Post Sunday, 19th June 2011, 08:36

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

You cannot enchant them at all. And stones do not come with effects.
But they are effective against enemies that like to eat things.


Another question is: how to throw non-throwable things like books and runes? Quiver them?
If you find any mistakes or typos in my post, feel free to PM me about it. Thanks in advance!

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Vestibule Violator

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Post Sunday, 19th June 2011, 11:07

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Stones do worse damage, but are plentiful free ammo, especially in the early game. They're worth carrying early on, both since you're likely to have few sling bullets, and because they're a cheap, effective solution to jellies.

'f' fires ammunition from your quiver. 'F' allows you to chose and throw anything in inventory.

You didn't ask, but while we're on the topic of everything throwing... if you confirm with 'enter' you will fire in a strait line, as far as you can, in the direction of the target. If you confirm with '.' your ammo will stop on the square you targeted. Useful near water and lava!

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Swamp Slogger

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Post Sunday, 19th June 2011, 14:56

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Constantly switching resistance gear in the late game. Maybe I'm being inefficient about it, but I waste so much time swapping rings of life protection/fire/cold resist. What am I doing wrong and how can I save time and reduce tedium?
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Post Sunday, 19th June 2011, 15:58

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

So, mageykun, it literally is a ve-e-ery neat way of transporting your things, including potions, scrolls and runes, to safer areas, unless you hit someone with the thrown item?
If you find any mistakes or typos in my post, feel free to PM me about it. Thanks in advance!

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Post Sunday, 19th June 2011, 16:55

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

mageykun wrote:If you confirm with '.' your ammo will stop on the square you targeted.


This and "tab kills bats" are the two neatest tricks I have learned this week. Note to self: rtfm!

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Post Sunday, 19th June 2011, 17:14

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Not sure I've ever been in a situation where I wanted to throw a rune on ahead instead of simply carrying it, but sure, you could. I suppose it might be useful for throwing something shatter-able, flammable, or harpy-eatable to safety if you were only caring one vulnerable stack. Using stealth or knowledge to have dropped stuff in advance would be better though, or just wearing conservation.

Myself, I only really use 'F' for chucking things in lava (still the best way to dispose of draining weapons =D), or placing book bombs when playing a 'zerker.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 20th June 2011, 03:38

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

mageykun wrote:Myself, I only really use 'F' for chucking things in lava (still the best way to dispose of draining weapons =D), or placing book bombs when playing a 'zerker.


I'm of the opinion that magic items should explode when thrown into lava.
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Post Monday, 20th June 2011, 13:42

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

ClawlessVictory wrote:Constantly switching resistance gear in the late game. Maybe I'm being inefficient about it, but I waste so much time swapping rings of life protection/fire/cold resist. What am I doing wrong and how can I save time and reduce tedium?

Well one thing that can help is to stop using rings of life protection. :p Personally, I find it to be the least helpful resist, and I've cleared both Tartarus and Tomb without any.

More seriously, know what you're going up against. Most branches have certain elements that are more important, and you don't need to retreat and swap every encounter.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 20th June 2011, 14:01

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

mageykun wrote:Well one thing that can help is to stop using rings of life protection. :p Personally, I find it to be the least helpful resist, and I've cleared both Tartarus and Tomb without any.


Shadow dragons.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2011, 14:28

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Hydras. How can I kill them with Ghoul Monks, or any class with claws ? The only way I found is zerking with a mace using TrBe or KoBe atm :v Should I rely on wands to kill them ?
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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2011, 14:33

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Ququman wrote:Hydras. How can I kill them with Ghoul Monks, or any class with claws ? The only way I found is zerking with a mace using TrBe or KoBe atm :v Should I rely on wands to kill them ?

Yes, wand is a good way to deal with them. So is berserk. And there's always fleeing of course.
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Tuesday, 21st June 2011, 19:29

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Also, Makhleb is a popular god for Ghoul Monks, and his greater demons make short work of hydras. Assuming a disciplined schedule of indiscriminate killing on your part, THAT power is often available by the time you're tackling the Lair branches, where you're most likely to be meeting hydras.

Just make sure you train up your Invocations on the way. Hydras are bad enough on their own, but dealing with one by summoning an executioner which immediately turns on you because you failed the Invocation check is YASD city.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2011, 11:18

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I want to make sure I understand item generation. If an item is glowing/runed/embroidered/etc. then it is likely to have an ego effect, or be enchanted, or be cursed, though it can also be mundane (like an uncursed -1 0 orc dagger or something), right? Is it possible for a cursed/ego/enchanted item to spawn and NOT show as glowing/runed/etc., and just have its name in white?

Also, a related side question: if I detect a non-randart item to be cursed, is it always safe to just assume that it's negatively enchanted and throw it away? Are Wight weapons (which I understand are frequently cursed) an exception, or do they tend to be lousy too?

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2011, 11:37

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Glowing/runed/etc items are enchanted, yes. Most of them just have a generic bonus (hit/damage other than +0), but some of them are ego items. It's possible for non-glowing/etc items to deviate from +0, but usually only a point or two, and they will never be ego items. EDIT: Glowing/etc items CAN be cursed... you just have to take your chances (or have a means of dealing with curses handy).

Non-randarts or not, cursed items are usually bad, but not always. The ring of teleport can be extremely useful, for example, but I don't think I've ever seen it generate uncursed. Cursed jewelry you'll want to identify before throwing away (if only so you'll recognize it the next time you find one), but cursed non-artifact weapons or armor you can be a bit more casual about tossing.
Last edited by Happy Corner on Wednesday, 22nd June 2011, 11:45, edited 1 time in total.

Halls Hopper

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2011, 11:38

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Yesterday I found a cursed ring of slaying +2/+5 .. so no, not all cursed jewellery is bad. But most ;)
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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2011, 12:37

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

DivineHammer wrote:Also, a related side question: if I detect a non-randart item to be cursed, is it always safe to just assume that it's negatively enchanted and throw it away? Are Wight weapons (which I understand are frequently cursed) an exception, or do they tend to be lousy too?


I'd say about three of every four weapons I've pulled off of a wight have been negatively enchanted.. yet the fourth turns out to be something sweet, like a +3/+3 trident of freezing. If you have the extra scrolls (rem curse or identify) it might be worth it to enter the mini-lottery and churn through the wight gear if you're struggling for egoed items.
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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2011, 12:39

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I've found +3,+3 cursed weapons from wights. And lots of -2 cursed wight drops. So if the wight is using the best weapon base type you've seen in the class you're interested in, it's probably worthwhile to bash a plant to figure out the enchantment levels. Just don't try it until you have surplus remove curse scrolls.

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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2011, 14:28

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Can Ignite Poison hurt Aizul?
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Post Wednesday, 22nd June 2011, 14:30

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Happy Corner wrote:It's possible for non-glowing/etc items to deviate from +0, but usually only a point or two, and they will never be ego items.

Enchanted weapons have 1 chance in 3 of being glowing or runed. It's 2 in 3 for armour. It means non-glowing items can have any enchantment, not just +1 or +2. Items with an ego will always have a cosmetic adjective.
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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 12:43

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Do vampires get any special bonus for vampiric-branded weapons? (Other than not needing to be Full to equip one.)
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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 13:05

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Happy Corner wrote:Do vampires get any special bonus for vampiric-branded weapons? (Other than not needing to be Full to equip one.)

No.
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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 13:28

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

What is invisible in Zot? Ghost moths? Anything else I need to worry particularly about?

If I wear sInv, I lose rF, so I'm wondering if it's worth wearing rF most of the time and using sInv as a swap.

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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 14:43

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Two questions:
1)When fighting a player ghost, I repeatedly saw, "Player's Ghost stares at you. You feel cold." It didn't cause a mutation or damage that I could see. Was this ensorcelled hibernation or something else? A cantrip?

2)How does one start the tutorial in webtiles?
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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 14:50

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

jejorda2 wrote:Two questions:
1)When fighting a player ghost, I repeatedly saw, "Player's Ghost stares at you. You feel cold." It didn't cause a mutation or damage that I could see. Was this ensorcelled hibernation or something else? A cantrip?

This is just flavour speech.

jejorda2 wrote:2)How does one start the tutorial in webtiles?

You can't. It's only available offline.
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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 16:25

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

galehar wrote:
jejorda2 wrote:Two questions:
1)When fighting a player ghost, I repeatedly saw, "Player's Ghost stares at you. You feel cold." It didn't cause a mutation or damage that I could see. Was this ensorcelled hibernation or something else? A cantrip?

This is just flavour speech.


Sort of like how when your meat chunks rot, it says something like "The smell makes you sick", yet you don't actually GET the "sick" flag. Never been a fan of that message; I feel it is too close to the sick concept because eating bad chunks can get you sick.
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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 16:36

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Actually, what I find is more confusing, is that when you are poisoned, you get the message "you feel sick" even though you are not actually sick in the way the game normally means. It would probably better if it said "you feel ill" for poison.

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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 16:38

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Someone compile a list of those message changes or, even better, provide a patch, and we'll use it.
It would improve the game directly (even if only a little) and I can see no reason not to do it.

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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 16:44

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

The fact that "You feel cold" was printed in the same bold red text that new mutations are printed in was particularly confusing. Colored text is often used to emphasize different types of info, so it throws me off when it is just for decoration.
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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 19:26

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

dpeg wrote:Someone compile a list of those message changes or, even better, provide a patch, and we'll use it.


I looked through all the data files in my game, but none are in there; they must be compiled into the code (which is kinda... eh; I'm a fan of the ability to internationalize messages) and I didn't bring down the deployment locally, yet.
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Post Thursday, 23rd June 2011, 19:27

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

jejorda2 wrote:The fact that "You feel cold" was printed in the same bold red text that new mutations are printed in was particularly confusing. Colored text is often used to emphasize different types of info, so it throws me off when it is just for decoration.


Can change to "You feel a deathly chill." or something.
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Post Friday, 24th June 2011, 02:39

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Hi, a crawl newbie here.

I have just reach Lv 9 of the dungeon with a TrBe(Lv9), my longest lasting character yet.

Should I head for Orcish Mine first since I have found the entrance? The crawl wiki suggested going for Lair first.

If so, how hard is it for a melee character to confront death yaks and hydra?

The "brothers in arm" ability would be use more in these dungeon branch I presume.

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Post Friday, 24th June 2011, 03:07

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Skeledoid wrote:Hi, a crawl newbie here.

I have just reach Lv 9 of the dungeon with a TrBe(Lv9), my longest lasting character yet.

Should I head for Orcish Mine first since I have found the entrance? The crawl wiki suggested going for Lair first.


Which way to go depends on your character.

Orc has swarms of regular orcs like the ones you've fought, which will go down like chumps but may occasionally have a nasty heavy weapon. They also have some casters which have some nasty tricks. More uncommon are the top-end orcs, which are extremely dangerous. Orc warlords are about as dangerous to your 9th-level troll as your 9th-level troll is to regular orcs. Orc sorcerors and high priests have powerful spells that can end you at that level even if you get the drop on them. And even the moderately uncommon orc knights will beat a 9th-level character in a straight fight most of the time. You'll also see a variety of ogres, giants, and trolls, so watch out for ogre mages and top-end giants.

As a reward for braving Orc, you get a lot of orcish equipment. Basically, you get a nice selection of branded weapons (your character prefers claws, so these are useless) and branded body armors (your character can only wear robes, so most of these are completely useless). There's also some gold, which isn't useful unless you've found a shop with something good in it. You also get good Trog piety, so you can quickly top off piety for Brothers in Arms here if you burn it off fighting something dangerous elsewhere. Orc 4 has some shops to spend the gold in, but 9th level is way too early to try Orc 4 so don't even consider that minor detail when deciding where to go.

Lair has swarms of unintelligent animals, and smaller numbers of really big and nasty unintelligent animals. Most of the swarms are complete non-threats, but watch out for spiny frogs, black mambas, and hydras, which can kill you one-on-one. Large packs of blink frogs, elephants, or death yaks can also chew you up after a protracted engagement. Very few animals have a ranged attack, so the most serious threats are those that you can't outrun, particularly spiny frogs and black mambas. You may have to run away from things you can't kill, like a big hydra, and abandon the remaining levels of Lair until you've found a solution to your problem.

As a reward for braving Lair, you get quite a large bundle of xp. This trains your important skills, which makes every other area easier. You also get normal dungeon floor trash, which may or may not be useful.

Then there's the main Dungeon, which you didn't mention but is another option. The Dungeon has a wider range of threats than Lair, many of which are ranged attackers or have troublesome magic, but there are relatively few fast bruisers that can kill you while you're trying to run. The loot is better than Lair, since you have some intelligent enemies to loot and the possibility of shops, but it gets dangerous faster than Lair too.

For your character, I'd go with Lair and explore until you get chased out by a hydra or something that you can't kill. Then go somewhere else until you find a way to kill whatever chased you out.

skeledoid wrote:If so, how hard is it for a melee character to confront death yaks and hydra?


Pretty bad at 9th level. It'll get easier as you level up, but you should probably hope you don't find any of those things on the first few levels of Lair. A hydra is a particularly terrible opponent for this character because your claws will cause it to grow extra heads, getting stronger faster than you can hurt it. Unless you can burn it down with wands or bury it with Brothers, this character should run the moment you see one.

skeledoid wrote:The "brothers in arm" ability would be use more in these dungeon branch I presume.


Brothers in Arms is an extremely powerful ability, and the piety it costs to use is a renewable resource. You can't use it on every monster you meet, but you should not hesitate to use it on the harder ones if it lets you win for sure.

For this message the author KoboldLord has received thanks:
Skeledoid

Dungeon Dilettante

Posts: 3

Joined: Friday, 24th June 2011, 02:33

Post Friday, 24th June 2011, 04:09

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Thanks for the advice KoboldLord,sir :)

That was more than I expected. I might explore the dungeon a bit more then do early Lair Levels.
The Tele scrolls (about 7 or so) I have accumulated might come in handy.

Dungeon Dilettante

Posts: 3

Joined: Friday, 24th June 2011, 02:33

Post Friday, 24th June 2011, 04:42

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Hot damn, died at Lv 14 main dungeon.RIP Lv11 TrBe

Perhaps I have traveled too far down. Killed by something that was summoned by Kirke. And the 12 headed Hydra(didn't expect them to appear) wasn't too friendly either.

It was a good run though, albeit that I was playing carelessly. Might try GhNe next. I must have 30+ morgue files with characters that never pass D:4 :P.
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