The Tavern

mageykun wrote:Focusing is by default disabled (so you can only toggle between on and off). Hit "tab" or "|" to enable focusing.

This is no longer true in trunk - all three skill states are always available.

randoark wrote:
tormodpwns wrote:2. What is the effect of wielding a lajatang with a shield?

2) Halved base damage. No bueno.

Is it worth sacrificing 7 damage for a shield? I'm playing a Kobold and I found the Shield of Resistance in a shop. And I know shields come in very handy, I can't rely on EV forever. Or can I? I plan to go for post endgame, where it's mostly torment damage.

One more question: I found a treasure trove asking for 6 scrolls of blinking. Luckily, I managed to save up 7... should I?

@tormodpwns Quarterstaves and Lajatangs are meant to be wielded with both hands, if you want to equip a shield badly, I'd suggest you pick a demon whip which crosstrains with the staves skill. Another suggestion I've got is to actually wear a heavier armour (ideally a pearl dragon armour in the endgame) and keep the lajatang on without a shield. You'll lose on EV, but you'll still evade a lot. It's always good to have more AC for when you get hit (and it does happen even with 60+ evasion with buffs).

Also, my vote is, go for the trove. You're bound to get good stuff. Scrolls tend to not last for too long if you don't have a preservation cloak/conservation necklace. Unless you worship Trog, learning blink and eventually controlled blink (especially if you stick with light armour and a shield) is not extremely far away. But you don't need spells for a casual 3 rune victory if you're aiming for that, especially when running with Trog.

Thanks for explaining it to me, each of the versions since I started playing crawl have changed the experience system.

Just came out from the trove, paid 6 scrolls of blinking. Got a bunch of potions, lol:

1 potion of gain dexterity
1 potion of cure mutation
7 potions of magic
3 potions of healing
4 potions of heal wounds
3 potions of speed
4 potions of might

Pretty worth it? I think so...

tormodpwns wrote:Pretty worth it? I think so...

Good luck not getting them shattered!

So I think I've got a bug here? My DrAr of Nem is in Shoals:1, standing next to deep water with death yaks on the far side. I 'draw one' my deck of destruction, pick Spark, target death yak, hit death yak. "Nemelex Xobeh does not approve of your wasteful card use." I draw again, get spark again, get the same warning for zapping the death yak. I am not wasting these cards. What gives? (latest CAO trunk)

CommanderC wrote:
eeviac wrote:Anyone know of a Connectbot setting that could fix this, or maybe a dcss config line that would change those particular characters?

You could use the feature option in your config file.

For example, if you want to use the unicode character 0x2240 (≀) for trees and 0x2211 (∑) for shops:
Code:
feature = shop {x2211} feature = tree {x2240}

Thanks for the help, this sounds like it will work BUT I haven't been able to start a new game yet, which would load these new preferences. (I just got my first rune ever, in Swamp, surrounded by trees breaking the display, no less

)

eeviac: report the bug on mantis, please.

eeviac wrote:Thanks for the help, this sounds like it will work BUT I haven't been able to start a new game yet, which would load these new preferences. (I just got my first rune ever, in Swamp, surrounded by trees breaking the display, no less )

You don't need to start a new game to load those settings. Try using characters that you can actually display. Most likely it's a problem with the font you are using.

Galefury wrote:eeviac: report the bug on mantis, please.

done.
https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5070

CommanderC wrote:
eeviac wrote:Thanks for the help, this sounds like it will work BUT I haven't been able to start a new game yet, which would load these new preferences. (I just got my first rune ever, in Swamp, surrounded by trees breaking the display, no less )

You don't need to start a new game to load those settings. Try using characters that you can actually display. Most likely it's a problem with the font you are using.

Hm OK, I'll see what other settings I can tweak.

Does Kiku hate it when you use weapons of holy wrath?

No only Yred get mad I think. Anyway forbiden weapon always have their name in red.

eeviac wrote:
CommanderC wrote:
eeviac wrote:Anyone know of a Connectbot setting that could fix this, or maybe a dcss config line that would change those particular characters?

You could use the feature option in your config file.
For example, if you want to use the unicode character 0x2240 (≀) for trees and 0x2211 (∑) for shops:
Code:
feature = shop {x2211} feature = tree {x2240}

Thanks for the help, this sounds like it will work BUT I haven't been able to start a new game yet, which would load these new preferences. (I just got my first rune ever, in Swamp, surrounded by trees breaking the display, no less )

oooohhh fixed it, I was using parentheses, not curly braces. This'll make (mobile) playing from here on out much better. 'sall good though, broken displays were no match for amulet-of-faith-fueled-nemelex-decks. I have beaten DCSS.

eeviac wrote: I have beaten DCSS.

!!!

Will Okawaru give me 2-handed weapons if I am wearing a shield? I'm hoping to switch to an executioners axe eventually, but at the moment want to keep using a shield as it's my only source of rElec. So far I've been getting a lot of war and broad axes but nothing bigger.

Jeremiah wrote:Will Okawaru give me 2-handed weapons if I am wearing a shield? I'm hoping to switch to an executioners axe eventually, but at the moment want to keep using a shield as it's my only source of rElec. So far I've been getting a lot of war and broad axes but nothing bigger.

It's been my experience that Oka and Trog will happily give you double handed equipment when you're wielding a shield, and Oka at least will continue to gift shields even if you are wielding something double handed. Getting what you want in a particular base type can take a while, especially if you're holding out for something rare like an executioner's axe.

I have encountered quite a curious thing several times: drawing a Trowel card which results in an appearance of an orange statue is followed by a "You construct a crystal golem". The golem lasts long enough to destroy the statue.
The question is: how would my flimsy SpAs construct a DARN GOLEM OF CRYSTAL on the same turn as drawing a card?

The cards. They are magical. A wizard did it! *hides*

There's more than one question here but they're all little.

1) To get to min weapon delay, you just take the attack delay% / 10, and then get your weapons skill to that level, yes? So min delay for a longbow is at Bows 12, and min delay for a demon trident is Polearms 13?

2) I got a buckler. When I try to wield my longbow with the buckler, I get "your attack speed is reduced significantly" and indeed checking @ shows it dropping from above average to below average. If I train Shields, can I get this penalty down to none or trivial, or is this just an always fixed thingy of bows and shields?

3) I get to corrupt ONE weapon. Is a longbow of distortion teh awesome that I think it would be, or should I keep the distort for a melee weapon? (Playing an Abyssal Knight so unwield banishment doesn't scare me, although maybe some of the other effects are worth worrying about?)

Is there any other way to get through to the treasure / rest of the vault after having this bug occur? https://crawl.develz.org/mantis/view.php?id=5088

Wasn't these guardians zombies-like, so they don't follow down/up stair?

Anyway teleport wont work, maybe lugonu corruption or shatter.

Corruption, Shatter or high power LRD should all work.

Mattchew wrote: 1) To get to min weapon delay, you just take the attack delay% / 10, and then get your weapons skill to that level, yes? So min delay for a longbow is at Bows 12, and min delay for a demon trident is Polearms 13?

It works like that for melee weapons, except for uneven numbers like 13 you need one extra level of skill. So you get min delay for demon tridents at Polearms 14. No idea if it works like that for ranged weapons.

No idea about questions 2) and 3). Ranged combat is weird. I don't think you can distortion brand ranged weapons, but I'm far from sure. Note that even if it is possible it will stop you from butchering corpses.

Mattchew wrote:There's more than one question here but they're all little.

1) To get to min weapon delay, you just take the attack delay% / 10, and then get your weapons skill to that level, yes? So min delay for a longbow is at Bows 12, and min delay for a demon trident is Polearms 13?

Ranged weapons don't work like that. Your strength and dexterity are used in the delay calculations, so it isn't possible to know when you reach minimum delay.

Mattchew wrote:2) I got a buckler. When I try to wield my longbow with the buckler, I get "your attack speed is reduced significantly" and indeed checking @ shows it dropping from above average to below average. If I train Shields, can I get this penalty down to none or trivial, or is this just an always fixed thingy of bows and shields?

No. But it can be lowered a bit.

Mattchew wrote:3) I get to corrupt ONE weapon. Is a longbow of distortion teh awesome that I think it would be, or should I keep the distort for a melee weapon? (Playing an Abyssal Knight so unwield banishment doesn't scare me, although maybe some of the other effects are worth worrying about?)

You can't corrupt ranged weapons.

EDIT: Don't use a longbow while wearing a shield. If you want to wear a shield, then use slings or learn conjurations.

> Ranged weapons don't work like that. Your strength and dexterity are used in the delay calculations, so it isn't possible to know when you reach minimum delay.

Oh. Is there a customary number where people tend to stop at with Bows? I've gotten to 10 and have turned off for now, but maybe that should be higher.

> You can't corrupt ranged weapons.

So tragic. Can I corrupt a spear, quiver it, and expect distortion to work?

> EDIT: Don't use a longbow while wearing a shield. If you want to wear a shield, then use slings or learn conjurations.

Ok. I'm pretty committed to longbows on this char at this point, so I guess it's 2-h all the way. Too bad centaurs are so crappy on defense otherwise.

Thanks for the advices (you too Galefury).

Mattchew wrote:So tragic. Can I corrupt a spear, quiver it, and expect distortion to work?

Nope.

More generally, brands on mele weapons don't work when you throw them (bar returning), and brands on ranged ammo don't work when you wield them.

mageykun wrote: and brands on ranged ammo don't work when you wield them.

When you weild non-weapon (ammo, lantern, deck...), what is the calculation on the damage output. Do UC have any effect?
Because sometime I attack weak/damaged enemies with them, and it would be cool to know how much viable the turn saved by this is.

Do amulets of berserk help reduce Trog berserk effects, or are these separate types of berserk?

Mattchew wrote:Oh. Is there a customary number where people tend to stop at with Bows? I've gotten to 10 and have turned off for now, but maybe that should be higher.

Put this into your config file:

Code:: show_game_turns = true

Then, don't stop training Bows until you see (0.6) next to the turn counter (when you shoot an arrow with your longbow).

Grimm wrote:Do amulets of berserk help reduce Trog berserk effects, or are these separate types of berserk?

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here, but I'm going to guess it's about chances of passing out after berserk? In which case, the only thing that reduces it is Trog piety (also having levels of berserkitis).

I was laboring under the assumption that the amulet eased the post-berserk negative effects, but I see that was wrong. I thought perhaps there'd be some stacking bonus for Trog + amulet.

So.. Guys..
I've just started VpMo and found CPM on D:1. Am I supposed to go armor now? The main problem about it is that I don't have enough str atm. Any advices there?

Man, I've been away from this game for far too long. So, I decided to start one of my favorite combos - a Spriggan Berserker. I ran into a short sword of holy wrath and I've been stabbing with it for a bit now, but the game has given me not one, but two whips of electrocution, so I'm at a bit of a dilemma.

The way I see it, on one hand short blades is easier for me to train, opens up stuff like quickblade later on and is good for stabbing stuff. On the other hand, the whip is absolutely more powerful right now and, potentially, opens up the way for a demon whip down the road, at which point I'd like to have enough skill points in maces to make it worth it.

The question, I guess, is do I switch weapons now, when it's still early and easy to fix later on, or do I just forget the whip and stick to my sword?

It's my understanding that Spriggans are better at Stabbing and Stabbing Skill is useless with that whip.

Stabbing isn't useless with a whip, it's just... considerably less awesome.

It kind of depends on what build you're shooting for. If you plan on stacking stealth and stabbing, with mele brouhahas as a secondary option, short blades are a better choice. If you plan on doing all your fighting the straightforward way, you will definitely notice and appreciate the higher base damage from a demon whip.

If you plan to switch though- do it soon. Otherwise you'll spread your Trog gifts over multiple weapon schools, making it harder to get the endgame awesome weapon you actually want.

MarvinPA wrote:
Grimm wrote:Do amulets of berserk help reduce Trog berserk effects, or are these separate types of berserk?

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here, but I'm going to guess it's about chances of passing out after berserk? In which case, the only thing that reduces it is Trog piety (also having levels of berserkitis).

I believe wearing an Amulet of Rage will reduce your chance of passing out after raging. You could also reduce the chance by memorizing the Berserker Rage spell, but that was old stuff...

Galefury wrote:
Mattchew wrote: 1) To get to min weapon delay, you just take the attack delay% / 10, and then get your weapons skill to that level, yes? So min delay for a longbow is at Bows 12, and min delay for a demon trident is Polearms 13?

It works like that for melee weapons, except for uneven numbers like 13 you need one extra level of skill. So you get min delay for demon tridents at Polearms 14. No idea if it works like that for ranged weapons.

Not always. Fortunately, the demon trident example works. But for weapons over 140 delay, you need weapon skill equal to (delay)/10 + (delay-140)/10. This is because all weapons have a minimum of 7 delay, regardless of base delay. So for a giant spiked club with 180 delay, you need 22 skill in M&F to get minimum delay, which is 7.

How possible is it to ninja the Hell runes? I'm thinking, pop my head into the boss chamber, get everyone's attention, then teleport away somewhere. Then wander through the level and pick off the dispersed Fiends one by one, and with enough speed, lure the boss away from the loot chamber, run in, grab the rune, and use cTele to escape quickly. Viable?

It depends on the map and branch how easy it'll be, but it's totally viable. I've found Ereshkigal and Antaeus like to wait for you right by their runes, forcing you to lead them away, or just risk a grab and dash. Whereas Asmodeus and Dispater are usually in a different part of their castles- meaning with luck it's actually possible to sneak by them, empty the loot chamber in peace, and then safely tele out when you take the rune and the -ctele barrier comes down. Or failing that, they're not hard to lure off and lose in their castles.

Apportation is almost mandatory. Controlled blink if you can get it- it makes for a fast way to bypass even Hell Lords, and the single greatest lifesaver if Hell effects or if the Rune Lord and his or her band of fiends lay the hurt on yah. You want a durable source of tele (ring, spell, or wand) so you can bail after the snatch, or after luring the nasties into a dead end. If you're trained up in earth magic, shatter + apportation makes for a perfect smash and grab- you can literally knock down the back wall to get at the rune- oftentimes bypassing it's irate guardians entirely.

You should certainly kill everything you come across on the way in- just so you have clear lines of retreat and for emergency tele. Killing the things hanging with the Rune Lord is less important. Bypass what you can afford to- luring them all away for one-on-one killing is tedious and just asking for more Hell effects.

mageykun wrote:If you're trained up in earth magic, shatter + apportation makes for a perfect smash and grab- you can literally knock down the back wall to get at the rune- oftentimes bypassing it's irate guardians entirely.

More importantly, with shatter, you can bypass not just the front door to the rune chamber, but most of the level as well. This was fantastically useful to me in Gehenna recently.

+1 on apportation being hugely awesome.

tormodpwns wrote:
MarvinPA wrote:
Grimm wrote:Do amulets of berserk help reduce Trog berserk effects, or are these separate types of berserk?

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking here, but I'm going to guess it's about chances of passing out after berserk? In which case, the only thing that reduces it is Trog piety (also having levels of berserkitis).

I believe wearing an Amulet of Rage will reduce your chance of passing out after raging. You could also reduce the chance by memorizing the Berserker Rage spell, but that was old stuff...

That was removed a good while ago (before the spell itself was removed, even).

A treasure portal asks for 15 potions of healing, Is it worth it? (assuming i can scrounge together that many)

Condegh: it depends. Healing potions are needed to cure rot, which is rather frequent in tomb, crypt and tar. If you're planning to do those areas you should really keep some healing pots. If not, you don't really need them for the late game if you have rP or can cast cure poison.

Besides that curing confusion is also an important part late on. If you're really low on healing potions for whatever reason you will probably want to save them for that; otherwise go ahead and cure rot.

Condegh wrote:A treasure portal asks for 15 potions of healing, Is it worth it? (assuming i can scrounge together that many)

I like the learndb answer... "A treasure portal asks for <something I really want>, do I enter it?" "No"

Bit more complicated than that though. I'd only enter if you were short on resists (or had 20 heal pots :O).

I would say enter. Relatively speaking, thats the cheapest price I've ever heard of. You can easily amass 25+ healing pots after 3 runes, and if youre worried about hell effects, just scrounge pan for more healing pots before doing the hells.

Is there a limit on the usefulness of Int? I know that past a certain point, Dex gives hugely diminishing returns on EV and SH.

On an unrelated note, I took this monster off a goblin on D:2:

I have a question - where the hell are the Mountain Dwarfs? I downloaded trunk version 0.10-a0-2858-gbf1390a and...they just aren't there. Is this a bug or is it supposed to be a feature?

Jenx wrote:I have a question - where the hell are the Mountain Dwarfs? I downloaded trunk version 0.10-a0-2858-gbf1390a and...they just aren't there. Is this a bug or is it supposed to be a feature?

They're gone. Too similar to orcs and minotaurs.

Question on Animate Skeleton:

e.g. If kill an Ogre with a club and you walk over to the corpse and cast it, the skeleton will wield the club
But if you move the club and corpse to another location and cast it, the club does not get picked up by the skeleton

Feature or bug?

The Tavern

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