The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' thread

[mageykun]

Well... you can't just go by the total. AC and EV do different things. Then there's the fact that the first few points of either is worth more than the last few of the other (ie, something like 25/5 is better than 30/0). Plus there's gdr to consider, and any relevant penalties.

Also- just going by the numbers could have you doing silly things like completely changing your setup- for example, swapping from lots of AC & low EV to high EV low AC. High AC and high EV characters do not play the same (one can tank- the other requires more caution) and swapping from one to the other carelessly could be a good way to get yourself killed. Then there's potentially wasted xp on skills.

[Confidence Interval]

Thanks mageykun. I'm primarily thinking of early game situations where I wonder, "Should my MiFi wear the ring mail that gives AC 9 and EV 6 or the scale mail that gives AC 6 and EV 9?" (Or whatever - I made the numbers up, of course.) In the later game I think options are more clear cut (since I have in my mind whether I'm playing an AC- or an EV-based character.)

In early-game situations, with relatively low skill levels, is considering the total a reasonable approach?

[tormodpwns]

Continuing on the topic of armour, I've noticed that although I can wear armour with strength at the 3xEVP level, my Evasion penalty continues to decrease as my strength further increases. What is the minimum amount of strength needed to offset ALL penalties, thus leaving you with the pure EVP of the armour (-6 for plate, for example)?

[smock]

In the early game if I am not casting spells I always go as heavy as I have strength for. If I am casting spells I try for as heavy as I can without compromising spell success rates too much. In the early game this means leather or robe + buckler. GDR is just great against almost all opponents! After those first few points of EV, I value AC much more highly up through about AC25. Hydras, for example, can't seem to get through AC25.

I usually don't train armour or dodging until I have my weapon to min delay or my main spell online, at which point I start thinking about committing to either heavy or light armour.

[Blade]

Continuing on the topic of armour, I've noticed that although I can wear armour with strength at the 3xEVP level, my Evasion penalty continues to decrease as my strength further increases. What is the minimum amount of strength needed to offset ALL penalties, thus leaving you with the pure EVP of the armour (-6 for plate, for example)?

You are wrong. All you ever need at all ever is 3xEVP. After that, Armour skill can lower your EVP, but strength cannot.

[crate]

Continuing on the topic of armour, I've noticed that although I can wear armour with strength at the 3xEVP level, my Evasion penalty continues to decrease as my strength further increases. What is the minimum amount of strength needed to offset ALL penalties, thus leaving you with the pure EVP of the armour (-6 for plate, for example)?

You are wrong. All you ever need at all ever is 3xEVP. After that, Armour skill can lower your EVP, but strength cannot.

mm crawl terminology is great isn't it.

More str will continue to "reduce" the armour's EV penalty if you have dodging skill (see ??dodging[2]: Your dodging bonus is reduced by 30*(EVP - 1)/strength, where EVP is the base penalty of your body armour (does not depend on Armour skill)) but will not affect for instance the AEVP (won't affect spellcasting, melee accuracy penalties, etc.). If you want to only get -6 EV from plate, you can do that easily by having 18 str and Dodging 0 on a normal-sized race at the right armour skill level.

(You should note that more dex will basically always give you more EV than more str will once you get to 3*evp str)

changed some numbers because wtf crawl is weird

[Blade]

(note that dex is much more important for dodging than str)

[tasonir]

This seems like a great time to link to this again:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... aNHc#gid=0

This is more for armor skill levels then strength - I didn't know strength has continuing effects after EVx3, but if so, that's great. Armor skill will have a larger impact, though, and training it up will negate about 2/3's of the EV penalty (precisely: negates 60% EVP). I've found the charts very helpful for doing my relatively uncommon build: early on plate, later on going -3EV dragon armors and with high armor skill, casting high level spells. If you go all the way to armor 27, the spellcasting penalty of -3EV armors is 10, which is about double that of leather armor with 0 skill. It's hardly noticable in the late game, when it pretty much just means you need to get an extra 2 levels of a skill. Instead of casting haste at level 14 charms, get 16, etc etc. I do have the benefit of high int under chei, so this may be harder on characters with 10 int.

[dmurray]

I'm having a lot of trouble understanding attack delay and unarmed combat. I understand how to calculate the delay and so on but I have zero idea of how many attacks I get in a turn since it just seems random. This gets really confusing when I try to play a transmuter (or any species/background with auxiliary attacks). Sometimes I can hit all three attacks with a tengu (claw, peck, punch) and other times it's just a punch. This is with max skills and anywhere between 10 and 60 in all my stats (tried it out in WIZ mode).

Or is this just a waste of time since the auxiliary attacks don't seem to do that much damage or again, am I just missing something blindingly obvious with how to use UC effectively.

BTW, one last thing: if I go with Chei, does it matter if I'm not a Naga? From what I seen when I tried it in WIZ mode, she automatically slows down races so every race would be able to make use of her slouch time ability equally, right?

[pratamawirya]

I'm having a lot of trouble understanding attack delay and unarmed combat. I understand how to calculate the delay and so on but I have zero idea of how many attacks I get in a turn since it just seems random. This gets really confusing when I try to play a transmuter (or any species/background with auxiliary attacks). Sometimes I can hit all three attacks with a tengu (claw, peck, punch) and other times it's just a punch. This is with max skills and anywhere between 10 and 60 in all my stats (tried it out in WIZ mode).

Or is this just a waste of time since the auxiliary attacks don't seem to do that much damage or again, am I just missing something blindingly obvious with how to use UC effectively.

BTW, one last thing: if I go with Chei, does it matter if I'm not a Naga? From what I seen when I tried it in WIZ mode, she automatically slows down races so every race would be able to make use of her slouch time ability equally, right?

As far as I know, UC doesn't affect aux attacks anymore.

And even a Spriggan can get the full benefit from Chei.

[cerebovssquire]

Slouch slows you down to an extent progressing with piety gained. This means that the amount you are slowed down in addition to your Naga's originally slow speed is the same amount that you are slowed down from a human's normal speed, meaning that a 6* naga of chei is slower than a 6* human of chei who is slower than a 6* felid of chei who is slower than a 6* spriggan of chei.
Still, Na is definitely not the best race to worship a horrible god... if anything, Chei is good for the passive INT boost and Na doesn't need that.

[tasonir]

They do if you are casting high level spells like statue form and controlled blink Depends on what you're trying to do with the character.

In any case, what might be confusing dmurray is that unarmed gets slowed down by heavy armor, unlike all other weapon skills. So if you are wearing something with significant -EV, you may see some attacks randomly be slower than others. The wiki is correct on this:

This attack delay is increased, however, by the EV penalty of your equipment. Every time you attack, the game rolls 1d10 + 2d(EV Penalty) - 10; if the result is positive, that amount is added to your attack delay.

Armor skill will lower the -EV penalty, and lower the speed decrease. In practice once you have a reasonable armor skill (10+) you really shouldn't worry about wearing anything up to plate, and if you are going to go for gold dragon or crystal plate mail, getting around 15+ armor skill will be enough. Of course keep raising it as you go, the higher the better

[Southpaw]

Minotaurs are stronger followers of Chei than Nagas are anyways, the only problem is you're playing a minotaur...why did you pick Chei?

[eeviac]

Does level 3 repulsion field stack with repel / deflect missiles?

[BlackSheep]

No, it acts as though you have Repel Missiles active. The effect is replaced while Deflect Missiles is active.

[sir_laser]

Two questions:
1. Is it possible to die while under Zin's Sanctuary?
2. What are the effects of Holy Word, exactly? I know it does damage and stuns, but how much and for how long?

[cerebovssquire]

Two questions:
1. Is it possible to die while under Zin's Sanctuary?
2. What are the effects of Holy Word, exactly? I know it does damage and stuns, but how much and for how long?

1. Yes. Poison, acid walls, indirect mummy curses by holy word... it "just" prevents people from attacking you and makes them flee.

[sir_laser]

1. Yes. Poison, acid walls, indirect mummy curses by holy word... it "just" prevents people from attacking you and makes them flee.

Is this why Sanctuary has a lower piety cost than Elyvilon's Divine Protection?

[Deimos]

How do you get past the lair entrance vault with the Oklob plant guarding it? I just got a promising MfGl killed on it. I had finesse and heroism on and used a invis potion to get next to it, but it cleaned me up without a sweat. Can I use the plants around it as cover? I guess that's not a great way of dealing with it anyway, since its going to smack you with some corrosion attack every time you peep out of the lair. My poor armor :c

[nicolae]

How do you get past the lair entrance vault with the Oklob plant guarding it? I just got a promising MfGl killed on it. I had finesse and heroism on and used a invis potion to get next to it, but it cleaned me up without a sweat. Can I use the plants around it as cover?

Yep. Oklobs can't shoot through plants. I don't remember the layout of that vault, but if you can get to the entrance without having to go through the oklob, just go invisible and sneak past it. Hopefully you'll find an invisibility potion in Lair you can use to get back out.

[Deimos]

Ah, thanks! The layout is (I think) a 2 wide ring of plants walling off the Lair, and one of the outer plans is a Oklob. I had no idea that it couldnt fire though plants; thanks!

[mageykun]

Invisibility alone is often sufficient to take out a lone oklob. You just need to make sure you quaff from outside of its LOS, otherwise it knows you're there and keeps shooting.

[Deimos]

Heh, definitely so if you have a good weapon. Unfortunately my weaponry consisted of two +0 +0 tridents

[MacChris]

I am currently playing a MeBe wielding a normal +1+3 Trident and just got a +2/+8 Triple Sword of Holy Wrath from Trog. Should i switch to Long Blades now and use it or just continue with Polearms and hope for a good gift? Polearms is at 17 atm

[rebthor]

I am currently playing a MeBe wielding a normal +1+3 Trident and just got a +2/+8 Triple Sword of Holy Wrath from Trog. Should i switch to Long Blades now and use it or just continue with Polearms and hope for a good gift? Polearms is at 17 atm

Wait, he'll give you a good polearm eventually.

[rchandra]

Does teleport control or high MR prevent Roxanne's "blink other close" spell from attracting you? Henzell came up empty on blink other and blink other close.

[galehar]

Moved the Chei discussion to the appropriate thread. Guys, it's right here on the front page...

[Deimos]

...Chei time!

How does Chei's metabolism slow work with Rings of Regen? Usually a Tr would have no use for a regen ring, but I found one and it wasn't grayed out to indicate its uselessness. I figured since my regen was slowed, it would let me speed it back up with a RoR. Is this correct, or was I bamboozled?

[cerebovssquire]

How does Chei's metabolism slow work with Rings of Regen? Usually a Tr would have no use for a regen ring, but I found one and it wasn't grayed out to indicate its uselessness. I figured since my regen was slowed, it would let me speed it back up with a RoR. Is this correct, or was I bamboozled?

Here's how it works.

1) Metabolism in Crawl = the speed you hunger at.
Regeneration rate = the rate you regenerate HP

So all Chei does in regards to this is slow your hungering rate. Not slow your regen.

2) Regeneration has no limit. All sources of regeneration stack under all conditions. A demonspawn with troll leather armour, powered by death with 10 corpses in sight, two rings of regeneration, the spell and probably some source I am forgetting will get full benefits from all sources. A troll of non-Chei will get full benefit from =regen.

3) RoR commonly abbreviates robe of resistance.

[Deimos]

Ah! I thought that was how they worked, but I assumed that metabolism and regen were related in some way. Clears that up!

I didn't know that either! I must have not been paying much attention around regen. I always thought it worked like a resistance pip might, in that after a source or three, more doesn't help. I should have worn more rings!

Woops! Sorry, wasn't aware of that terminology. Used to a certain other game where a RoR is a ring of regeneration. Will keep that in mind

[snmjk20]

how much throwing skill is needed to effectively kill early orc priests/wizards/warriors with javelin?
i rolled a SEHu and got swarmed by a band of orcs while i stood in one place hoping to kill everything by the time they got to me xD

[Xion350]

Do characters who die in Lich form leave a ghost? I had a Necromancy using Octopede who died while in lich form. I REALLY don't want to fight this ghost because he'll be tormenting me, poisoning me, using Haunt and probably more.

I remember that undead characters don't leave ghosts, but I'm not sure if that applied to lichform or not.

[MyOtheHedgeFox]

How to generate an overflow altair somewhere close to me in Wizmode? I wanted to test them.

[sir_laser]

Ah! I thought that was how they worked, but I assumed that metabolism and regen were related in some way. Clears that up!

There is one definite exception: you cannot have the mutations slow metabolism and regeneration at the same time.
Also IIRC if you wear equipment/cast spell that provide regeneration and you are not @ full health your metabolism would be increased.

[CommanderC]

How to generate an overflow altair somewhere close to me in Wizmode? I wanted to test them.

&L*name_of_the_vault (if you omit the *, the vault won't be placed close to you)

This is the list of overflow altars (can be found in dat/des/altar/overflow.des):

  Code:

   ashenzari_altar_1
   ashenzari_altar_2
   evilmike_ruin_ashenzari
   cheibriados_altar_1
    cheibriados_altar_2
  golem_altar_1
    golem_altar_2
   elyvilon_altar_1
   elyvilon_altar_2
   elyvilon_altar_3
   elyvilon_altar_4
   elyvilon_altar_5
   fedhas_altar_1
   fedhas_altar_2
   fedhas_altar_3
   fedhas_altar_4
    tgw_fedhas
  fedhas_ov_isle_minmay
   fedhas_altar_fruit_tree
  fedhas_bush_and_centaur_altar
   lemuel_zombie_altar_kikubaaqudgha
   lemuel_mausoleum_altar_kikubaaqudgha
    demons_altar
  bloody_makhleb
  nemelex_xobeh_ov_fountains_minmay
  nemelex_deck
   nemelex_altar_shiori
   okawaru_metal_pillars_1
   okawaru_metal_pillars_2
   okawaru_metal_pillars_3
   okawaru_trees_1
   okawaru_trees_2
  okawaru_ov_weapons_minmay
   lemuel_blue_sif_altar
       tgw_sif
  bloody_trog
   trog_ov_bears_minmay
   tgw_trog
   fiery_altar_vehumet
   dangerous_book
    vehumet_statue
    vehumet_crystals
   tgw_xom
    xom_teletrap_fun
    xom_obstacle_run
    xom_butterflies
    xom_shifter_show
    xom_confusion_cloud
    xom_redecorated
   xom_gifts_altar
   yredelemnul_altar_generic
   lemuel_zombie_altar_yredelemnul
   lemuel_mausoleum_altar_yredelemnul
   zin_angel
     tso_altar
     general_overflow_altar


[IronJelly]

ok, so I keep seeing a player on CAO who's console speaks to him in what appears to be pirate speak. then I saw a note in the trunk commit log at crawl.develz.org/trunk that mentioned "lang=commie"

So I assume this means we have the ability to alter the language used in the game to some degree. Just sort of curious how. just add lang=whatever(that exists) in the options?

[Kate]

There were some joke translation filters added to trunk for April fools' and people liked them enough that they've been left in. At the moment you can do lang = (dwarven | jagerkin | kraut | cyrillic) for various filters.

[cerebovssquire]

Do characters who die in Lich form leave a ghost? I had a Necromancy using Octopede who died while in lich form. I REALLY don't want to fight this ghost because he'll be tormenting me, poisoning me, using Haunt and probably more.

I remember that undead characters don't leave ghosts, but I'm not sure if that applied to lichform or not.

No, they don't leave a ghost.

[JasonMel]

As a tengu, how do I stop flying? I searched, but all I could find is that the tengu ability to stop flying was added to the game a couple of versions ago.

[galehar]

As a tengu, how do I stop flying? I searched, but all I could find is that the tengu ability to stop flying was added to the game a couple of versions ago.

It's in the ability menu.

[JasonMel]

As a tengu, how do I stop flying? I searched, but all I could find is that the tengu ability to stop flying was added to the game a couple of versions ago.

It's in the ability menu.

I already lost the game, so I can't quote directly, but when I tried to look in the ability menu while flying, the game said, "You're already flying!" or words to that effect. [Edit: ...and the ability menu did not open.]

[Grimm]

Can you reproduce that?

[Confidence Interval]

This looks like a great weapon but for one thing:

  Code:

the -1,+9 executioner's axe of the Hive (weapon) [god gift, elec, *TELE +Blink +Lev rElec rF+ rC+ Stlth--]

What should I do? Look for stasis or control Teleport? Or just put it in the pile of useless god gifts?

[Grimm]

I wouldn't look for stasis on purpose because even if you did find it it would cost you a precious amulet slot, not to mention a turn in case you have to read ?tele. I'd carry it around for a while in case the rElec came in handy, but ultimately junk it.

[Confidence Interval]

Thanks. Actually I did find an amulet of stasis shortly afterwards and I'm now wearing it while using the axe - which is great, because it delivers such high damage. Downsides are that the stasis prevents me from berserking or using the +Blink. I plan to use it until Trog gives me something else decent (or I die, whichever happens first).

[Deimos]

Do octopodes have any innate weakness to acid, or is that just a byproduct of bad EV/AC? I was running a monk and red jellies were extremely dangerous, even moreso then they would be with, say, a TrBe/TrMo/MiMo/GhMo/etc.

[absolutego]

it's probably due to restricted slots. bots: "Acid damage increases for each unequipped armour slot (50% chance if wearing a cloak)."
and ops can only wear hats, so...

[mageykun]

Well, acid damage hurts more the more equipment slots you have open. (Ie, more exposed skin means more "Ow that burns!").

I'm not 100% sure how this transitions to octopodes... but I'm willing to bet rings don't count. (It's a ring. How much skin can it possibly cover?). That means all you have covered is the top of your head. Not to mention the fact as a Oc monk you're flagellating a pulsing ball of acid with your eight naked fleshropes. Punching acid is understandably dangerous for regular monks for obvious reasons, but you've got more hands in the fire. With more surface area. Constricting a ball of acid. You might as well be bathing in the stuff!

Edit: dangit, ninja-ed. Also, I can't believe I spelled "flagellate" right on the first try.

[Deimos]

Thanks guys! One more

I'm playing a Felid and have found a treasure trove that requires a +4 +6 demon blade to enter. The only such sword I could find is a +3 +5 one. Is there ANY way at all to enchant a weapon as a Felid or should I just give up on the trove?