The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' thread


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Sunday, 8th May 2011, 16:52

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Rods get assigned an arbitrary +X/+X for combat.

Magical staves (Staff of Death, Staff of Power, etc.) do not.

Are these staves considered +0/+0 with the appropriate branding (Pain for Staff of Death, Electric for Staff of Power/Air) for all combat purposes, then?

[b]BOT[/ b]
I asked and the bot answered me.

Henzell says...
Enhancer staves (fire, cold, air, earth, death) have (Evoc + 1)/15 chance of doing 1d(1.25 * (Evoc + skill)) extra damage that ignores AC (except earth), but checks the appropriate resistance. Air also needs to pass a (damage dealt + air + 1)/20 chance, and death a (necro + 1)/8 chance. The staff of poison is handled differently.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Sunday, 8th May 2011, 17:39

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I have a question about JELLIES and melee characters (like well melee characters, the example i'll take is from a game with Furude Rika, Ghoul Monk. if you know who Rika is, justt don't ask me WHY a ghoul monk. I really don't know.).

What are the options against them if your melee capacity is not enough to slash them without worries ? When I can i do some pillar dancing with stone throwing but you can't always do that.
The second part of my question is :
1. Is unarmed combat safe against jellies ?
2. Is polymorphing them a good idea ? (what i just did with my monk and I was lucky getting an orange rat I think).

btw I think there should be a playable jelly species. seems like a "good" idea to me.
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Post Sunday, 8th May 2011, 18:04

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

You do take a bit of extra damage from fighting jellies unarmed while not wearing gloves (which damages them if they are worn, although GhMos shouldn't be wearing them much in the first place), but it's fairly negligible and very safe unless you're at very low HP. I don't really think it's worth it to polymorph them, but then again I've never tried it myself. You could be saving them for more threatening things, like boggarts, although admittedly there's hardly ever much of a chance to use them anyways.

Also, Jelly actually has been suggested before, interestingly enough: https://crawl.develz.org/wiki/doku.php? ... cies:jelly
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Dungeon Master

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Post Sunday, 8th May 2011, 20:46

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Ququman wrote:2. Is polymorphing them a good idea ? (what i just did with my monk and I was lucky getting an orange rat I think).

Jellies are great candidates for polymorphing. They are low HD and annoying.
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Mines Malingerer

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Post Monday, 9th May 2011, 06:42

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Thank you for your answers !
All this stuff is good to see. I'm also glad there seem to be some uses for the polymorph wand, that I have a tendency to drop in the Temple until I find some electric eels. That will save many Dwarf Fighters afraid of Jellies because they seem rather fast when compared to the player.

Interesting link about the player jelly suggestion ! I guessed it could have been suggested but I see there is some thinking going on :3

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 9th May 2011, 07:20

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Jelly Priest of Jivya = win
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Post Monday, 9th May 2011, 10:59

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

XuaXua wrote:Deep Dwarf Necromancers work well if you can make it to Vampiric Draining.

I found binding the spells (using =, then s) as follows works best:
a - Animate Skeleton


I've had good success with DDNe, but don't think I've ever used Animate Skeleton (and learning it makes Vampric Draining learnable slightly later). Is it really useful?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 9th May 2011, 14:21

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

joellercoaster wrote:
XuaXua wrote:Deep Dwarf Necromancers work well if you can make it to Vampiric Draining.

I found binding the spells (using =, then s) as follows works best:
a - Animate Skeleton


I've had good success with DDNe, but don't think I've ever used Animate Skeleton (and learning it makes Vampric Draining learnable slightly later). Is it really useful?


It is helpful for the first 5 levels because it creates slaves and feeds you by automatically creating meat chunks. I use it all the time when I don't have enough magic to do animate dead and need some food. Easier than cutting up the body.

The only drawback is that sometimes you make poisoned chunks that you auto-pickup. You shouldn't have poisoned chunks under autopickup unless you have access to rpois.
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Post Monday, 9th May 2011, 20:31

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I've been playing a lot of Halfling crusaders, I like the evasion bonuses from halfling, but I read somewhere that Int was much more valuable than the other stats on anyone who casts. Is this correct? Should I be putting my level-up points into Int instead of Dex? If so that sort of ruins the whole high-evasion thing.

Does vorpalize weapon scroll make distortion brand permanant? (After getting burned with the pain brand I am paranoid)

I've been toying with the idea of a demigod necromancer, But I'm worried about being able to find a pain-brand weapon. Is it reasonable to assume I will find one without worshiping Kiku?

I've been looking at the EV formula from the wiki, specifically the dodging bonus:
(7 * Dodging * Dex) / (20 * AEVP - size)

Is this formula correct? If AEVP is zero, wouldnt we have an absurdly large negative dodge bonus? (large number) / ( -2) etc?
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Monday, 9th May 2011, 21:28

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Int is far more valuable than dex. It increases spell success rates, spell power, and decreases spell hunger, all allowing you to better spells, better. Stacking Dex only gives a small bonus to damage from dextrous weapons, and maybe a 5-10 points of extra evasion by Zot. If you go int, you could get the same increase from phase shift, and that's just one spell.

If you really want a Dex halfling, try a HaBe. All the fun of super evasion, with 'zerk, regen, and summons all without casting. Plus Trog gifts!

Vorpalization only makes vorpal, flame, and frost permanent. Pain, Distortion, and Holy Wrath are unique to Kiku, Lucy, and Tsoise. Sorry.

Hell knights are a fairly reliable source of pain branded demon weapons. If one doesn't drop in the main dungeon, you're sure to find one in the abyss.

Dunno about the formulas, and bots don't say. Someone else can field that one.

minmay wrote:It is thoroughly correct. I cannot think of any situation where I would prefer to raise another stat.

The only time I increase anything else is when I start with an absolutely crippling low in str. You gotta have some carrying capacity. Or again, 'zerkers. Although, you can still stack int and turn caster with them too. :p

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 9th May 2011, 22:45

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Not if you get hit by some strength damage at an inopportune time. In the post-endgame you can very easily get dead between moves if you find yourself overloaded while surrounded by fiends or greater mummies. I try to aim for 10 strength, but that includes item bonuses and is fairly cautious besides. By that point in the game, my staple damage spells are at pretty close to their maximum spell power so the extra four points of intelligence I sacrifice would only drop, say, Controlled Blink from strawberry to sultana or thereabouts. If the intelligence gap happens to put me in a critical hunger margin, I can take steps to correct it (staff of energy, amulet of gourmand, etc). There's not much you can do if your strength instantly decays from a Hell effect in the middle of combat.

Mind you, I certainly wouldn't take the strength up front, at the first opportunity. It would be much preferable to get that strength from forced racial gains, and those are often random. I'll usually start finalizing my plan for stats once I've got 4th-level spells hungerless.

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Post Tuesday, 10th May 2011, 07:05

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

If you think you are going to be doing a lot of throwing, slinging or shooting, you might also want to raise str. You will need to carry quite a bit of ammo, and it can be heavy, especially if it's made of steel.
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Post Tuesday, 10th May 2011, 08:09

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

igomadness wrote:I've been looking at the EV formula from the wiki, specifically the dodging bonus:
(7 * Dodging * Dex) / (20 * AEVP - size)

That looks like the formula for the dodge bonus, which is: (7 * Dodging * Dex) / (20 - size)
AEVP is applied after.
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Post Tuesday, 10th May 2011, 13:59

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

There's this text "(Hit _)" that sometimes appear at the top right of the screen, what does it mean?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 10th May 2011, 15:59

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Does Evocations level affect the power of a scroll? For example, how many charges are applied to a wand when the scroll of recharging is read?
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Post Tuesday, 10th May 2011, 18:10

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

XrBob wrote:What are the best races for casters who also don't like to die?

I like High Elf casters because they get pretty decent HP compared to Deep Elves.

But all my High Elves have died.

Halls Hopper

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Post Tuesday, 10th May 2011, 19:56

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I'm actually having success with a naga caster right now. I started as a wizard and got vehumet, meph cloud or imp spam can take care of most early game troubles.

Question: If I click on my spellbook in my inventory I see a list of spells I can learn. Some are black or white, best guess is that I have enough slots for them or not. But others are green and purple. Do you know what that means? Also, when it says that vehumet is aiding my destructive magic, what exactly does that mean? Is it equivalent to a ring of wizardry or something?

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Post Tuesday, 10th May 2011, 21:37

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

What is your opinion on the four elemental schools? I'd imagine ice/air is better than fire/earth, but I haven't played enough to know for sure.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 02:00

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

At the moment, air is pretty clearly the strongest because it has three overpowered air/charms spells that are all due for a nerf of some sort, making it worth picking up regardless of any other aspect of your build. It also has Tornado, which is ridiculously superior to its equivalents in the other elemental skills and is also due for major nerfing. Electric spells deal incredible damage once you've got their unique targeting subsystem worked out, and cloud spells just slaughter everything that isn't immune all the way to the post-endgame. Don't expect air magic to stay the best, though, because quite a bit of its power rides on some blatantly overpowered spells that are due for correction.

Next up is probably ice magic. Ice conjurations are typically longer-range than their fire equivalents, and with Throw Icicle they have the advantage of basically being able to ignore cold resistance. Freezing Cloud kills pretty much everything that is not completely immune to cold up until the post-endgame. Ozocubu's Refrigeration has a thousand and one uses, and ice magic provides powerful utility with Ozocubu's Armor, Simulacrum, and others.

After that is earth magic. Versatility isn't quite as good as ice magic, and it will cause cross-training with the abusively powerful air magic buffs making them cost significantly more than they normally would. It's fairly difficult to find reliable AoE attacks for earth magic, with the particular absence of a penetrating bolt spell being the most notable omission. That said, single-target earth conjurations are the most damaging in the game, and using Rapid Deconstruction to kill things on the other side of an impenetrable wall never gets old.

Fire comes in last, I'm afraid. Sticky Flame is still startlingly good even after it was nerfed to touch range, and Fire Storm will be the best 9th-level elemental super-spell once Tornado is taken back down to some semblance of sanity, but fire spells are basically all direct damage and there's only so much direct damage a single character is ever going to need. They aren't even the best direct damage.

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Halls Hopper

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 02:56

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I'm now finding that my recent deaths are because I run out of mana. I'm loosely following the conjurator guide on the wiki, he seems to recommend sif muna for this purpose. Not running out of mana seems especially critical for nagas as they really can't escape by running, with other races I can run circles around the level and get mana back, but not here. The other alternative I can think of is to train swords or some other weapon along with spells so that you have something to fall back on in a bad situation.

How do you deal with casters and their heavy reliance on mana?

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 03:23

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Rest after every fight to get back full MP.
Don't take on more than a few monsters at a time.
Vehumet gives MP for kills, as well as boosting the range of your conjurations.
Learn Sublimation of Blood - converts chunks to MP.
Sif has channelling to get back MP, although I don't like to invest in Invocations just for that.

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 13:53

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

It depends how far through the game that caster has advanced.

Early on, you can run from almost everything when you have low mp. If you have a hex-like effect such as Mephitic Cloud, it will deal with anything fast enough that you can't run from it, like snakes and centaurs. If you don't have such an ability, make sure you wipe those out first, or run away before a fight starts at all.

Once you start approaching the levels where Orc and Lair spawn, you'll start running into things that can counter whatever escape option you started with. You'll want to try to face these alone when possible, and if that can't be managed you'll have to dip into your supply of wands. It is absolutely not a waste to recharge wands of draining, fire, cold, or lightning at this point; later on you'll reserve those scrolls for the ultra-rare utility wands, but for now you'll want to use them on any wand that will let you cheese through difficult encounters. You'll eventually find more attack wands than you'll ever have reason to use, but you need them now, not eventually.

Getting towards the midgame, you should have stacked several redundant options to either escape or make your attacks more cost-effective. Blink with some form of teleport control, Swiftness, Spider Form, etc. allow you to escape effectively, and Sublimation of Blood, cloud spells, etc. allow you to deal out far more damage before running out of mp. Your midgame depends on getting these lined up, but once you do running out of mp won't be an issue again until Zot 5 and the post-endgame.

Naga are a particularly difficult case, because they can't simply run away from most enemies. You really need to get your escape options lined up quickly if you're playing one of these, because otherwise you're breaking out the wands for any durable opponent and not just for the especially nasty ones. Unless you're going for a particular challenge or willing to rely on luck, you might start with a background that gives you a solid escape option to start out, like wizards or transmuters. It's much easier to fill in the nuke gap later on, if you're willing to settle for whatever element turns up first. Slither around the narrow passageways of a level, and stay the heck away from open levels if there's any other choice. Seriously consider just skipping open levels that don't have choke points. Naga are actually pretty hard to get started, even if they get strong in the post-endgame.

Take the conjurator guide with a grain of salt. It looks like it's at least two major versions out of date, and it was pretty vague to begin with because it tried to cover way too much ground in a single document. If you have a particular race/background/deity combination, or one or two of those and you're looking for a third, you can get much more detailed and effective advice.

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 14:26

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Can Mara summons be cleared away with Abjuration?
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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 14:41

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

yes
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Vaults Vanquisher

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 15:37

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

On the Lair:8 ending with the crazed wizard statue garden and the special portal ending, is there any loot? I have lighting, so I can burn this beast to the ground.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 15:39

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I believe I've heard that the loot is on the same square as the portal.

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 16:04

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

There's one acquirement-level item on the portal tile of that Lair ending, which may or may not be useful. It often isn't. Some of the monsters may be generated with demon tridents, which is a massive windfall if you happen to be using a polearm-wielder, and the wizard often has branded robes. All totaled, the rewards are nothing special but you should be thankful you didn't get the bear or worm endings.

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 16:50

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

UberNoob question time.

1. Whats with all these scrolls that crumble to dust and don't do anything ?
2. Do you (a) slug an unidentified potion as soon as you get it to try and id it (b) slug an unidentified potion when its all gone pair shaped in the desperate hope that it will be beneficial (c) never allow that demon liquid to touch your lips until it has been subject to a scroll of identity.
3. Ditto as per 2, except substitute "scroll" for potion and "use" for slug.
4. Who is Cedric and why does he hate me so ?

:mrgreen:
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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 17:05

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

1. They're scrolls that can't do anything, because the conditions are wrong. For instance, reading remove curse when nothing you're wearing is cursed, or reading enchant weapon when not wielding a weapon, or fear when there's no monster in LOS... etc.

2-3. There's a thread here where we discuss strategies for use-ID-ing potions, scrolls, etc.

4. Never seen a unique by that name. Nor has the bots. Maybe it's a player ghost?

Halls Hopper

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 17:20

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

hmm, I might try high elf wizard then, what do you guys think about sif muna vs vehumet? I used to always do sif, but I really like guaranteed access to mystic blast and the other good spells from the book of power.

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Post Wednesday, 11th May 2011, 20:10

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

XrBob wrote:hmm, I might try high elf wizard then, what do you guys think about sif muna vs vehumet? I used to always do sif, but I really like guaranteed access to mystic blast and the other good spells from the book of power.


Wizard is a TERRIBLE background for a Sif caster imo, because you won't be guaranteed any BOOM! spells for a long, long time.

If you play a Wiz, then go Vehumet. You'll have blink and summon imp, which are very useful throughout the game, but you won't be stuck kiting Hydrae in the lair with magic dart. If you play an Ice Elementalist, or an Air Elementalist, you have more freedom. Actually, with Air, Vehumet doesn't ever gift you your big blaster, Tornado, so you may as well ignore him. Sure, mana for kills, wizardry enhancements for conjurations, and extended range are nice, but you can live without those.

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Post Thursday, 12th May 2011, 16:09

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Does a portal to a bazaar always disappear eventually? I have one on my current level, but don't have much gold and would really rather come back when I have more.

I haven't heard any sounds of clocks ticking or anything to suggest time is running out, so I wonder if I'm safe to leave the level and come back later.
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Post Thursday, 12th May 2011, 16:18

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Henzell wrote:Some bazaars won't disappear until entered (these don't feature the "coins being counted" or bell tolling messages).

Looks like you're good.

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Post Thursday, 12th May 2011, 19:26

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

If the bazaar portal is described as "flickering", that's another indicator that it's non-permanent. (Just in case you somehow missed the coins message or haven't heard a bell.)
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Thursday, 12th May 2011, 20:13

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Can I use blade hands and Statue form at the same time?
Because that would be awesome.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Thursday, 12th May 2011, 21:45

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Quick Question:

Kobold Berserker- Pump Str or pump Dex?

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Post Thursday, 12th May 2011, 22:00

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Jeremiah wrote:Does a portal to a bazaar always disappear eventually? I have one on my current level, but don't have much gold and would really rather come back when I have more.

I haven't heard any sounds of clocks ticking or anything to suggest time is running out, so I wonder if I'm safe to leave the level and come back later.


It may also be a mimic.
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Thursday, 12th May 2011, 22:22

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

minmay wrote:No two forms can be used at the same time, sorry.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIV ... re=related

Shade wrote:Quick Question:

Kobold Berserker- Pump Str or pump Dex?

I like Strength as it does more things
However it mostly depends on if you plan to switch to a big sword later sometime around midgame
(Which i would highly recommend doing so)
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Thursday, 12th May 2011, 22:28

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

minmay wrote:
Shade wrote:Kobold Berserker- Pump Str or pump Dex?

Dexterity, unless you want to try to wear heavy armour (don't try to wear heavy armour on a kobold).


omndra wrote:I like Strength as it does more things
However it mostly depends on if you plan to switch to a big sword later sometime around midgame
(Which i would highly recommend doing so)


LOL. Thanks. I was torn as well. I'll try 1 with Str and 1 with Dex and see how they go. :)

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Post Thursday, 12th May 2011, 23:06

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

On a kobold, definitely dexterity over strength. The trade-off is basically a modest amount of carrying capacity vs. a couple points of evasion. Along with your high starting strength for starting as a berserker, you'll get more than enough strength to carry whatever you need from the forced strength bonuses. Each point of EV is better the more total EV you have, however, so those extra couple points from dexterity may end up making a huge difference for you later on.

Strength weighting for heavy weapons is basically meaningless. The damage bonus is trivial; even if you stack the effects of all the level-up strength bonuses over the course of an entire game, you're only doing an extra couple hit points of damage per attack. That's highly unlikely to reduce the number of swings it takes to take something important down.

For another race, strength might be a better contender, because it does make a difference if you're using heavy armor, but kobolds are incredibly biased as a race towards dodging over heavy armor. If you were running a mountain dwarf berserker or something, the choice would be a different matter entirely.

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