The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' thread


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

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Post Friday, 10th June 2011, 17:42

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Here I am, minding my business in an interdimensional bazaar, when a ghost of my former self rolls up and starts yelling at me through the translucent walls. Is this normal?

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Post Friday, 10th June 2011, 18:57

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Hopefully your former self didn't know how to cast Airstrike...

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Post Friday, 10th June 2011, 21:00

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

What are good venom mage tips and guidelines? I'd to try one, but I've found in the past that they're powerful against non-resistant enemies, but can't really do anything against resistant enemies. Early game this is pretty much undead/phantoms/imps. Early undead isn't too much of an issue I suppose, and you can lure imps/phantoms up stairs wait for them to blink and go down stairs, but that's just a hassle. Any advice?

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Post Friday, 10th June 2011, 22:45

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Vm in my experience, work pretty well if you shut off poison magic right at the start. You're going to be dumping a lot into conjurations, and you'll probably get the book of ice/air if you go vehumet since you've almost certainly cast Mephitic like a billion times by the time you're getting gifts.
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Post Saturday, 11th June 2011, 06:26

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Does the electrocution brand make noise when it procs? I didn't see any mention of this in the knowledge bot or wiki, but I read someone say in an old topic:
I'm still using a +3/+3 sabre of electrocution (and a +4/+2 sabre of speed when noise/water is an issue

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Post Saturday, 11th June 2011, 11:48

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

since when are there hungry ghosts in a labyrinth? extra cruel
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Post Saturday, 11th June 2011, 12:24

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

minmay wrote:Venom Bolt does (rather crappy, but still useful) damage to stuff with rPois+, such as undead and most demons. But it's probably better to hit them in melee, and branch into less narrow magic schools later.


If you get your Conj high via Sting and Venom Bolt, Mystic Blast and OOD can see you through as well. (Though it doesn't really address that poison is easy mode early and hard mode later.)

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Post Saturday, 11th June 2011, 21:09

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

How does one rest in webtiles? Shift 5 does not seem to work.

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Post Sunday, 12th June 2011, 04:08

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I've not tried webtiles myself, but "5" works on console/ascii so it should be the same for webtiles...

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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 12th June 2011, 17:14

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

How much does a speed brand reduce damage by? Is it literally 1/2?

Bots don't say precisely, as far as I can tell. (though it could just be me being blind...) :geek:
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Post Sunday, 12th June 2011, 17:37

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

10%.

note that i'm not saying at which point of the rather complicated chain of calculations. because i don't know it.
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Post Sunday, 12th June 2011, 19:16

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

blink with active teleport control in a floor that does not allow teleport control degenerates to... nothing. you get a message and waste a turn. is this intended behaviour? it seems rather silly that all you have to do (if you're getting the cTele intrinsic from a ring) is remove the ring and then get at least an uncontrolled blink.

i assume the same works for teleportation.
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Post Sunday, 12th June 2011, 20:34

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

If a monster is unaware of you because you have a lot of Stealth and you attack it, will you always be revealed by attacking? Can you have a high enough Stealth skill to remain hidden even after attacking?

Is there a way to define a "quiver" order? Say I am using a Sling and in my inventory I have stones, +0 sling bullets and +1 sling bullets. I want to use all of my worse ammunition first: stones then +0 bullets and last +1 bullets. So far all I can seem to do is quiver 1 ammunition and that's it.

Lastly, Say have a +1,+2 sword. I believe those numbers apply to to-hit and damage, but which ones apply to what?

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Post Monday, 13th June 2011, 06:57

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

The wiki says that Cheibriados doesn't mind if you use Transmutation spells that increase your movement speed. Is that true?
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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 13th June 2011, 07:21

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

yes, it's true but in 0.8 chei was nerfed, or rather spider form was nerfed - it keeps ponderousness of your armour now

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Post Monday, 13th June 2011, 08:43

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

The wiki warns us not to cast Banishment on the royal jelly. (Although that's apparently no longer possible since Banishment was made monster-only in 0.8.) What would happen if you did?
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Halls Hopper

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Post Monday, 13th June 2011, 08:59

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

without the spell you can banish trj with weapon of distortion or lugonu's ability, also it should be possible but unlikely with malign gateway and weapon with chaos brand, maybe there are other ways
if you don't kill trj you cannot get the rune without means to destroy stone walls like lrd/shatter, if you banish it you may need to find it in abyss and kill there, it's possible btw
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Blades Runner

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Post Monday, 13th June 2011, 10:41

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

minmay wrote:I have never seen that behavior. If it's actually present, that's a bug.


i can't replicate it on wizard mode.
that happened yesterday on zot:5. three blinks that degenerated to nothing, iirc. i took off the ring and then could blink. there were many safe squares in LOS in every case. i'll try again whenever i get there on my next online game. i honestly don't know what else could it be.
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Post Monday, 13th June 2011, 10:52

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

absolutego wrote:
minmay wrote:I have never seen that behavior. If it's actually present, that's a bug.


i can't replicate it on wizard mode.
that happened yesterday on zot:5. three blinks that degenerated to nothing, iirc. i took off the ring and then could blink. there were many safe squares in LOS in every case. i'll try again whenever i get there on my next online game. i honestly don't know what else could it be.

I can reproduce it easily in wizmode. I'm pretty sure it's an unexpected consequence of c96808dc. I've told MarvinPA about it.
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Blades Runner

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Post Monday, 13th June 2011, 11:10

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

ah, i had set the build to 0.8 for some reason.
thanks to you both.
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 01:46

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

mrbobbyg wrote:How does one rest in webtiles? Shift 5 does not seem to work.


No ideas about webtiles, but sometimes Numlock (or similar) can affect this kind of thing...
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 08:37

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

moekitten wrote:yes, it's true but in 0.8 chei was nerfed, or rather spider form was nerfed - it keeps ponderousness of your armour now


Right on both counts - I feel like overall, ponderousness melding was a Chei buff (especially, for example, in Statue Form :))
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 10:52

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Earlier I found an iridescent double sword in a transparent rock (or crystal - I forget) area, sitting on a teleport trap.
I now have digging, disintegrate and cTele. I don't have corruption, apportation, high-level earth, or -Tele yet.

Can I go back to get the sword or is it just there to tease me?
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 11:30

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

dassem wrote:Earlier I found an iridescent double sword in a transparent rock (or crystal - I forget) area, sitting on a teleport trap.
I now have digging, disintegrate and cTele. I don't have corruption, apportation, high-level earth, or -Tele yet.

Can I go back to get the sword or is it just there to tease me?

You need LRD to break the walls. You don't even need a high power.
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 12:12

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

When I'm blood sacrificing, sometimes it says "the (foo) is slowly consumed by flames" in white. Other times, the message is "The (foo) is consumed in a column of flame" in red.

Does the red message mean I was successfully awarded piety for the sacrifice? It tends to pop up more often when I sacrifice more badass creatures.
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 12:37

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Happy Corner wrote:Does the red message mean I was successfully awarded piety for the sacrifice?

Yes. You can also get "consumed in a roaring column of flame." if you get more than 1 piety at once.
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 16:31

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I'm trying to play a conjuration based caster, but I'm finding that my biggest issue is how easy it is most of the time, but also how quickly good fortune can turn around if you're not careful. I feel like most of the game I go on auto-pilot, just keep nuking and nuking till they're dead and move on. Early game it's magic dart and press the ~ key to do it again, just hold it down, rinse repeat. But then I get into a situation where that doesn't work, and I die.

My idea would be to start with a background where it requires you to be a little more careful who can transition into being a vehumet caster later. Transmuter, stalker, enchanter? I've been playing draconian wizards, but maybe playing a class not quite so spell oriented early on will make me be more careful and calculated so that I can survive long enough to play smart later.

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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 18:38

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

In a game on cao, I noticed and defeated Pikel on D:5. After fully exploring D:5, I proceeded to D:6, where I found a hostile slave. Do these exist without Pikel? I guess he fell down a shaft, but should he be hostile after I kill Pikel?
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 18:58

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

jejorda2 wrote:In a game on cao, I noticed and defeated Pikel on D:5. After fully exploring D:5, I proceeded to D:6, where I found a hostile slave. Do these exist without Pikel? I guess he fell down a shaft, but should he be hostile after I kill Pikel?


If true it sounds like either: a) a bug where they only check the current level for his slaves, or b) a feature where a slave on a different floor doesn't know his master is dead so he still does his best to kill you. Maybe both.

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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 21:55

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

XrBob wrote:I'm trying to play a conjuration based caster, but I'm finding that my biggest issue is how easy it is most of the time, but also how quickly good fortune can turn around if you're not careful. I feel like most of the game I go on auto-pilot, just keep nuking and nuking till they're dead and move on. Early game it's magic dart and press the ~ key to do it again, just hold it down, rinse repeat. But then I get into a situation where that doesn't work, and I die.

My idea would be to start with a background where it requires you to be a little more careful who can transition into being a vehumet caster later. Transmuter, stalker, enchanter? I've been playing draconian wizards, but maybe playing a class not quite so spell oriented early on will make me be more careful and calculated so that I can survive long enough to play smart later.

That's an interesting problem. I recommend Venom Mage. Their poison spells take care of most early monsters with ease, but there are a few that doesn't work on. They also lack Blink or Repel Missiles. Thus forcing you to be more careful than a Wizard. EDIT: Cool, I see above you're already familiar with them and some of their issues. So you won't be going into it blind!

Or, alternately, learn to not let your guard down like that. Shockingly enough, learning to deal with success is another obstacle of this game. I don't know how many of my own characters have ended up like "Wow, look how far I've gotten! Look at how much ass I'm kicking! ... uh oh! *pwned*".
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 23:16

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Shade wrote:
jejorda2 wrote:In a game on cao, I noticed and defeated Pikel on D:5. After fully exploring D:5, I proceeded to D:6, where I found a hostile slave. Do these exist without Pikel? I guess he fell down a shaft, but should he be hostile after I kill Pikel?


If true it sounds like either: a) a bug where they only check the current level for his slaves, or b) a feature where a slave on a different floor doesn't know his master is dead so he still does his best to kill you. Maybe both.

It's been fixed in trunk.
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Post Tuesday, 14th June 2011, 23:31

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

So in a subsequent game, I go down stairs and find myself surrounded by Pikel and some slaves. I go up and they follow me into a corridor where only one is adjacent to me. I go back down since I want to be able to run away but am blocked in, and now I see one hostile slave and one freed slave that is neutral. Pikel is still alive, since I haven't done any attacking yet.

What would free him?
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 08:26

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

jejorda2 wrote:So in a subsequent game, I go down stairs and find myself surrounded by Pikel and some slaves. I go up and they follow me into a corridor where only one is adjacent to me. I go back down since I want to be able to run away but am blocked in, and now I see one hostile slave and one freed slave that is neutral. Pikel is still alive, since I haven't done any attacking yet.

What would free him?

Maybe a bug. What version are you playing? Can you retell the story again telling from which level you go to which one and who follows you each time? It's a bit hard to follow.
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 08:41

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

FWIW, I've seen this in 0.9 - a neutral freed slave on a level where Pikel has been left elsewhere, but still alive. It did seem odd at the time but I didn't think "bug". Oops!
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 10:43

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

galehar wrote:
Happy Corner wrote:Does the red message mean I was successfully awarded piety for the sacrifice?

Yes. You can also get "consumed in a roaring column of flame." if you get more than 1 piety at once.

is it similar for the Abyss message (pops into the Abyss=0, some effect as he pops into the abyss=1)?
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 11:34

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

RFHolloway wrote: is it similar for the Abyss message (pops into the Abyss=0, some effect as he pops into the abyss=1)?

Yes. Lugonu's messages are:
"disappear into the void."
"consumed by the void."
"voraciously consumed by the void."

To see the list of all the messages for all the gods, check religion.cc:99.
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 11:38

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

galehar wrote:Maybe a bug. What version are you playing? Can you retell the story again telling from which level you go to which one and who follows you each time? It's a bit hard to follow.


It was on CAO with a CeFE, version 0.8.0-3-g99ea1d1. The morgue is here. Pikel was spotted on turn 5871. That may be enough info to watch it on footv, but here is a recap:

Cleared and explored D3.
Followed first two staircases to D4 and didn't see anything noteworthy, came straight back up to D3 after each descent. I want to know where all the up stairs are on D4 so I can retreat easily.
Approached unexplored third staircase from D3 to D4 that looked something like this:
  Code:
D3

#####
...>#
#####

Followed stairs to D4 to find myself surrounded by Pikel's gang, something like this: (P is player, @ are slaves)
  Code:
D4

..@...
.KP@.@
.@@...

Retreated up to D3, since that is too much to handle. It looked something like this:
  Code:
D3

#####
@K@P#
#####


I've lost a third of my hitpoints ascending the stairs, so I can't take them all on in the corridor. I haven't identified my scrolls, so my best bet is to go down the stairs and use centaur speed to get away.

When I get downstairs, it looks like this. The closer slave, who must have followed me down the stairs, is hostile. The farther one is neutral, and is labeled "freed slave." (Or maybe "free slave," I don't recall precisely.)
  Code:
D4

......
..P@.@
......


I run away and do other things, and when I come to the area again, the freed slave fights and kills the slave still under Pikel's thrall. The freeman falls to some of Eustachio's summons, I think. IIRC, I found his corpse while running away from that mob.
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 12:33

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

This behaviour is still present in trunk. It's not really a bug, since it's an intentional hack that dates back before we properly handle freeing slaves off-level. This will probably be reverted soon.
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 14:28

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

The learndb says that blurry vision disables passive scanning for traps. What does "passive" mean? Can I still find traps by resting/searching?
Also, does failing to learn a spell due to blurry vision trigger the Annihilation/Necronomicon/Grand Grimoire backlash?
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 15:03

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

What are the general opinions on finding an early vampiric weapon? Worth it to use or stash until late-game?
  Code:
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 15:37

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

asdu wrote:The learndb says that blurry vision disables passive scanning for traps. What does "passive" mean? Can I still find traps by resting/searching?

Yes. It only disable the search done when doing anything else but resting.

asdu wrote:Also, does failing to learn a spell due to blurry vision trigger the Annihilation/Necronomicon/Grand Grimoire backlash?

No it doesn't. You just waste a turn, that's all.

tcjsavannah wrote:What are the general opinions on finding an early vampiric weapon? Worth it to use or stash until late-game?

It really depends on which build and which weapon and what are you other choices. An obvious big yes for DD. For other species, it's useful and certainly better than no brand.
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Post Wednesday, 15th June 2011, 15:55

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

tcjsavannah wrote:What are the general opinions on finding an early vampiric weapon? Worth it to use or stash until late-game?


IMO, if it's a good weapon (e.g. a katana, broad axe, double sword or somesuch) switch to it and don't look back (assuming low weapon skill isn't going to hurt you too much) as vampiric is a great brand, if it's an ok or mediocre weapon and you don't yet have something better, use it and in the meantime hoard weapons of the type you're interested in, then ID them in big batches to minimize the amount of permafood that will cost you.

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Post Thursday, 16th June 2011, 07:22

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Is it worth keeping Unarmed Combat on (and sinking XP into it) if you're a Minotaur? That horn attack is cute, and I HAVE seen it do damage, but I'm still not sure exactly how much it's worth investing in.

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Post Thursday, 16th June 2011, 10:51

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

Happy Corner wrote:Is it worth keeping Unarmed Combat on (and sinking XP into it) if you're a Minotaur? That horn attack is cute, and I HAVE seen it do damage, but I'm still not sure exactly how much it's worth investing in.


The base damage of unarmed attacks scales with your skilled level, so at low skill levels that horn attack is basically an extra club attack every now and then if you haven't been keeping your skills up. Once monsters start having more AC, this will rarely do damage worth noting, and your other combat skills or evocations are probably going to be more cost-effective. On the other hand, unarmed combat will train so irregularly that you won't lose much xp to it anyway, so you can turn off the skill or leave it on as you prefer and it probably won't affect anything much for good or for ill. Just don't disarm yourself and try to victory dance it, because auxiliary attacks certainly aren't worth that kind of investment until you've maxed out everything else.

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Post Thursday, 16th June 2011, 18:39

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

How on earth do you get Kiku to accept sacrifices? I've dropped corpses on Kiku's altars and hit 'p' to pray, but it never says anything about a sacrifice, and the corpse is never touched.

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Post Thursday, 16th June 2011, 18:54

Re: The 'Questions too small to need their own thread' threa

I must have misread then. Good to know, thanks!
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