Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 346

Joined: Thursday, 15th August 2013, 11:33

Post Tuesday, 9th September 2014, 19:15

Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

...and not one that was being wielded by a unique or some other obvious way, no, this was just a runed melee weapon laying on the dungeon floor. But you've barely completed Lair, maybe you have a character focused on switching to ranged options. What to do? Roll the dice and risk an early banishment? Focus your skills/scrolls into that weapon so you'll at least be pretty good with it? Hold out for a brand weapon scroll? Ctrl-Q?

I just find this to be one of the most restrictive curveballs the game can throw at you. Not that I don't particularly enjoy it, had a very successful Ogre stabber once. But I'm wondering how other people handle it.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 11111

Joined: Friday, 8th February 2013, 12:00

Post Tuesday, 9th September 2014, 19:27

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Solution is simple - don't wield a weapon if distortion ruins your character.

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 6399

Joined: Tuesday, 30th October 2012, 19:06

Post Tuesday, 9th September 2014, 19:37

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Typically, I try to only wield weapons that might actually be useful for the character, so if it happens to be distortion, that's either fine (because I wasn't planning on doing much weapon switching anyway) or it's mildly annoying (because I would like to switch weapons freely) or it's highly annoying (because I was really looking for a secondary weapon, because I'm primarily ranged)

In case 1. I just keep the weapon until I'm powerful enough that the Abyss is doable, and I have some other weapon that I would really like to upgrade to.

In case 2. I'll probably just keep it until I'm powerful enough that the Abyss is doable, sometimes I'll take the risk and switch a little earlier if I find a particularly tempting upgrade

In case 3. (Which is pretty rare, primary ranged chars are like 1:20 plays for me) It depends on how difficult the switch would be, if it's early enough, killing most things untrained and just going with it is fine, and if it's late enough, I can probably handle the abyss anyway, so I'll just unwield. So there's a narrow range for me where this is a problem, then on top of which, I often stop using secondary melee weapons in this middle range if I have enough ammo, so it's further unlikely that I'd pick it up and wield it. *If* I'm in that middle-range *and* I don't have enough ammo to just kill everything by shooting *and* I come across a runed weapon who has a base type better than my current weapon, I might wield it, when I do, if it's distortion, I'll generally risk unwielding it unless it's pretty good and I have some skill in that weapon anyway (For example if I switch from a flail to a morningstar of distortion, and have some m&f because I've been using the flail as a backup weapon, I'll just keep the morningstar and train up m&f)


When most people complain about this, it's because they picked up a weapon they probably wouldn't use anyway and wielded it (just out of curiosity or something), this is a situation which is avoidable, and you probably shouldn't be doing in the first place.
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Slime Squisher

Posts: 346

Joined: Thursday, 15th August 2013, 11:33

Post Tuesday, 9th September 2014, 20:17

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

The situation that prompted the question was a god gift of my preferred weapon type, so I was happy to dump scrolls into it, eventually found a brand scroll and got around that particular obstacle!

Halls Hopper

Posts: 85

Joined: Sunday, 23rd January 2011, 08:19

Post Tuesday, 9th September 2014, 22:01

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Hmm, I wonder if rebranding weapon should invoke unwield mechanics...

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Joined: Friday, 6th July 2012, 12:48

Post Tuesday, 9th September 2014, 22:14

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

It used to, but it currently doesn't.

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 723

Joined: Monday, 9th June 2014, 13:39

Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 03:48

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Siegurt wrote:When most people complain about this, it's because they picked up a weapon they probably wouldn't use anyway and wielded it (just out of curiosity or something), this is a situation which is avoidable, and you probably shouldn't be doing in the first place.

By contrast, this is a situation that is not avoidable: first weapon of the game. There will be nothing for it but to unwield it at some point long before he is able to survive banishment. I suppose one could be cautious in the extreme and never wield an ego weapon without first identifying it, even if it's the first weapon found in the game. Then, the choice must be made to proceed without a weapon until a non-ego one is found, if an identify scroll cannot be found first, which could prove just as fatal.

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15.0-25-gd84c1e8 (webtiles) character file.

Aule the Magician (Deep Elf Wizard)                  Turns: 270, Time: 00:00:51

HP  10/10        AC  3     Str  4      XL: 1   Next: 50%
MP   7/7         EV 10     Int 22      God:
Gold 18          SH  0     Dex 13      Spells:  1 memorised,  8 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     g - +2 dagger (distort)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     e - +0 leather armour
rNeg   . . .     rCorr    .     (no shield)
rPois  .         rRot     .     b - +0 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   .     (no cloak)
SustAb .         Warding  .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (no boots)
Gourm  .                        (no amulet)
MR     .....                    (no ring)
                                (no ring)

@: not resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: no striking features
a: no special abilities


You are on level 1 of the Dungeon.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and seen 1 of its levels.

You have collected 18 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 g - a +2 dagger of distortion (weapon)
   (You took it off a goblin on level 1 of the Dungeon)
Armour
 a - a +0 robe
 b - a +0 hat (worn)
 e - a +0 leather armour (worn)
Comestibles
 d - a bread ration
Scrolls
 f - a scroll labeled PNUQUH PYEJOT
Potions
 h - a glowing orange potion
Books
 c - a book of Minor Magic   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Magic Dart                        Conjuration                  1
   Blink                              Translocation                2
   Call Imp                           Summoning                    2
   Repel Missiles                     Charms/Air                   2
   Slow                               Hexes                        2
   Conjure Flame                      Conjuration/Fire             3
   Mephitic Cloud                     Conjuration/Poison/Air       3


   Skills:
 + Level 2.5 Dodging
 + Level 2.4 Stealth
 + Level 4.7 Spellcasting
 + Level 1.1 Conjurations
   Level 1.1 Summonings
   Level 1.1 Translocations


You have 8 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ##..         10%         1    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (1/15)           

Altars:

Message History

The magic dart hits the rat.
You kill the rat!
The goblin shouts!
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Magic Dart
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - goblin
Aim: a goblin, wielding a runed dagger
The magic dart hits the goblin.
You kill the goblin!
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You can't see any susceptible monsters within range! (Use Z to cast anyway.)
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You can't see any susceptible monsters within range! (Use Z to cast anyway.)
A bat comes into view.
A bat is nearby!
A bat is nearby!
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Magic Dart
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - bat
Aim: a bat
The magic dart hits the bat.
The bat is moderately wounded.
The bat hits you but does no damage.
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Magic Dart
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - bat
Aim: a bat (moderately wounded)
The magic dart hits the bat.
You kill the bat!
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You can't see any susceptible monsters within range! (Use Z to cast anyway.)
You start resting.
Magic restored.
Found 13 gold pieces.
You see here a rat corpse.
There is a stone staircase leading down here.
Things that are here:
a runed dagger; a goblin corpse
g - a runed dagger
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Space warps around you for a moment!
g - a +2 dagger of distortion (weapon)
h - a glowing orange potion
You now have 18 gold pieces (gained 13).

  #.#<.#.#.#     #....
  #.####.#.# .   #..##
  #......#.##.#  #..#
  ########.##.#  #..#
#       ...##.#  #..#
#.       #..#.## #..##
#..#######.....# #....
#............#.# #.###
    #@....%....###....
    #.......>%......##
    #####...#######...
 #..........#      ###
  .##########


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  A bat (D:1)
  A giant cockroach (D:1)
  A goblin (D:1)
  A rat (D:1)
4 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Aule, the Deep Elf Wizard, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 6/6


Action                   || total
-------------------------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           ||     7
 Cast: Magic Dart        ||     5

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 04:04

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

btw disto dagger is a pretty good weapon for dewz, i dont see why you have to unwield it at all

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 04:12

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Indeed, if it is the first weapon in the game them that falls into category 1, "just roll with it" for a dewz, I would consider a dagger of distortion pretty much an optimal weapon for the first half of the game at least.
Last edited by Siegurt on Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 06:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Location: Toronto, Canada

Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 05:08

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Distortion dagger is actually maybe a perfect weapon for DEWz for a very long time.
take it easy

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 06:11

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Respectfully, no, it is not. The ideal weapon is a spear or trident.

Tomb Titivator

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Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 06:36

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Actually a spear is an ideal weapon for any character even into the endgame, Sandman25 and I proved it one time

:lol: :) :| :?
Wins (Does not include my GrEE^Veh 15-runer...stupid experimental branch)
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 09:37

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Unlike a spear or a trident a distortion dagger lets you make short work of getting rid of those pesky fast enemies.
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

Did you know that I like ruining crawl every now and then? Go check it out.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 09:54

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

A distortion dagger is heaps better than an unbranded spear (yes I am aware of conjure flame existence). I would be so happy to get a +2 distort dagger on D:1, you have no idea.

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Blades Runner

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Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 12:20

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Aule wrote:Respectfully, no, it is not. The ideal weapon is a spear or trident.


OK, if we're talking about normal weapons, yes perhaps a spear would be better early in the game so you can make the most out of conjured flame. But a dagger of distortion is not a normal weapon, and in this case it is way more powerful and deadly than poking someone with a pointy stick over an open flame. You now have fantastic early game melee killing power with no skill investment, and you can still cast magic dart past your conjured flames.

I don't think you understand just how good finding an early dagger of distortion on a magic-focused character is.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 15:14

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

I tried spear for a mage with Conjure Flame and I didn't like it that much, it deals very low damage without training Polearms. I liked Mephitic Cloud + dagger much more and distortion really helps here too (I usually have some Stealth which is useful for mages).
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Blades Runner

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Location: NYC

Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 15:19

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

tedric wrote:Actually a spear is an ideal weapon for any character even into the endgame, Sandman25 and I proved it one time

:lol: :) :| :?

Hah that was started by an argument in my starter thread. :) In which the advice giver said (and I paraphrase) that spears were not an end game weapon. However the valid argument in that thread was that spears are pretty lousy weapons as pole arms go.
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Slime Squisher

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Joined: Wednesday, 21st September 2011, 09:45

Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 19:59

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Conjure flame spell is a lifesaver in many early level situations. When you want to escape...!

Against many dangerous earlygame opponents, attacking with reaching weapon paired with conjure flame does nothing but leads you in trouble (we're talking about DEWz, right)

1) Orc priests
2) Orc wizards
3) Sigmund
4) Centaurs
5) Grinder
...

.. but maybe i'm wrong. Your mephitic cloud is probably so easy to cast you can just stab them with your low-skill polearm.

So, Aule.. stick with your distortion dagger. You'll see how good it is. Fuck the blowguns and curare you might need (those are great otherwise).
Let that disto dagger carry you in to the victory you already seemed to give up!

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 723

Joined: Monday, 9th June 2014, 13:39

Post Wednesday, 10th September 2014, 23:47

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Sphara wrote:Let that disto dagger carry you in to the victory you already seemed to give up!

Erm, too late for that, but thanks just the same. :)

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15.0-25-gd84c1e8 (webtiles) character file.

11 Aule the Magician (level 2, -5/15 HPs)
             Began as a Deep Elf Wizard on Sept 10, 2014.
             Killed by a distortion unwield (20 damage)
             ... on Level 1 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:02:56 (570 turns).

Aule the Magician (Deep Elf Wizard)                  Turns: 570, Time: 00:02:56

HP  -5/15        AC  3     Str  4      XL: 2   Next: 17%
MP  11/11        EV 10     Int 22      God:
Gold 18          SH  0     Dex 13      Spells:  3 memorised,  6 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     (no weapon)
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     e - +0 leather armour
rNeg   . . .     rCorr    .     (no shield)
rPois  .         rRot     .     b - +0 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   .     (no cloak)
SustAb .         Warding  .     (no gloves)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (no boots)
Gourm  .                        (no amulet)
MR     .....                    (no ring)
                                (no ring)

@: not resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: no striking features
a: no special abilities


You were on level 1 of the Dungeon.
You were not hungry.

You visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and saw 1 of its levels.

You collected 18 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 g - a +2 dagger of distortion
   (You took it off a goblin on level 1 of the Dungeon)
 j - a +3 hand axe
Armour
 a - a +0 robe
 b - a +0 hat (worn)
 e - a +0 leather armour (worn)
Comestibles
 d - a bread ration
 f - a chunk of goblin flesh
Potions
 h - a potion of confusion {unknown}
 i - a potion of heal wounds {unknown}
Books
 c - a book of Minor Magic   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   *Magic Dart                        Conjuration                  1
   *Blink                             Translocation                2
   *Call Imp                          Summoning                    2
   Repel Missiles                     Charms/Air                   2
   Slow                               Hexes                        2
   Conjure Flame                      Conjuration/Fire             3
   Mephitic Cloud                     Conjuration/Poison/Air       3


   Skills:
 + Level 2.5 Dodging
 + Level 2.4 Stealth
 + Level 5.2 Spellcasting
 + Level 1.1 Conjurations
 + Level 1.1 Summonings
 + Level 1.1 Translocations


You had 6 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Magic Dart            Conj           ##..         10%         1    None
b - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          12%         2    None
c - Call Imp              Summ           ##......     12%         2    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (1/15)           

Altars:

Message History

Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Magic Dart
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - goblin
Aim: a goblin, wielding a runed hand axe (hasn't noticed you)
The magic dart hits the goblin.
The goblin is severely wounded.
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Magic Dart
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f/p - goblin
Aim: a goblin, wielding a runed hand axe (severely wounded)
The magic dart hits the goblin.
You kill the goblin!
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You can't see any susceptible monsters within range! (Use Z to cast anyway.)
You start resting.
Magic restored.
Things that are here:
a runed hand axe; a goblin corpse
You start butchering the goblin corpse. You continue butchering the corpse.
You continue butchering the corpse. x2
You finish butchering the goblin corpse.
f - a chunk of goblin flesh
You see here a runed hand axe.
Found 28 arrows.
You see here 28 arrows.
A giant cockroach comes into view.
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
Aiming: Magic Dart
Press: ? - help, Shift-Dir - straight line, f - giant cockroach
Aim: a giant cockroach (clinging, resting)
The magic dart hits the giant cockroach.
You kill the giant cockroach!
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You can't see any susceptible monsters within range! (Use Z to cast anyway.)
Casting: Magic Dart
Confirm with . or Enter, or press ? or * to list all spells.
You can't see any susceptible monsters within range! (Use Z to cast anyway.)
Magic restored.
You see here a runed hand axe.
j - a runed hand axe
Wield which item (- for none, * to show all)? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Really unwield g - a +2 dagger of distortion?
Space warps crazily around you!
Ouch! That really hurt!
You die...

   #..#      #
   #..#      #.
   #..#      #>
####..########.#########
.........................
###.#.########.......#
  #.#.##     ###.###.....
  #....#########.#     #
###..#..........@###
..##...########....#
........#     #.##.#
######..#     #.##.#
######..#     #.##.#
.......##     #.##.#
######.#      #.##.#
#....#.#     ##.##.######
#<.#.#.#     #..........#


There were no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  A giant gecko (D:1)
  A bat (D:1)
  2 giant cockroaches (D:1)
  2 hobgoblins (D:1)
  2 goblins (D:1)
  A rat (D:1)
9 creatures vanquished.

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Aule, the Deep Elf Wizard, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 10/10 MP: 6/6
   318 | D:1      | Identified a scroll of teleportation
   319 | D:1      | Identified a scroll of fog
   341 | D:1      | Reached skill level 5 in Spellcasting
   434 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 15/15 MP: 5/11
   438 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Blink
   441 | D:1      | Learned a level 2 spell: Call Imp
   570 | D:1      | Killed by a distortion unwield


Action                   || total
-------------------------++-------
Melee: Unarmed           ||     7
       Dagger            ||     2
 Cast: Magic Dart        ||    18
  Use: Scroll            ||     2

I guess he deserved to die since I didn't play him the way the game wanted me to. :?

Crypt Cleanser

Posts: 723

Joined: Monday, 9th June 2014, 13:39

Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 03:00

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

  Code:
a - a +3 trident of piercing (weapon).

A fishing spear improved with a longer shaft and a three-pronged metal head.

Base accuracy: +1 Base damage: 9 Base attack delay: 1.3 Minimum delay: 0.6

It can be evoked to extend its reach.

It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.

This weapon falls into the 'Polearms' category. It is a one handed weapon.
It can be maximally enchanted to +9.

You took it off an orc priest on level 4 of the Dungeon.

This is so much better than a wimpy dagger of distortion. The poking over flame trick is merely icing. This one one- to two-hit kills all low-level baddies, and a room full of mephed ones are all easy pickings with the 3x reach, which also serves to significantly reduce the hit/being hit ratio. Killed an ice beast in only five hits (over flame), with zero polearm training. (The +3 is two scrolls over the +1 found.)

So lovely, and preferable.

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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 03:06

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

If you have never meleed with weapon of distortion, you really can't say that the trident is better. Try it some day, it's unusual experience. Dagger of distortion can kill Ice Beast with 1 (one) attack and no, I am not talking about banishment/stabbing/teleporting here.

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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 06:20

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

distortion is basically elec++

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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 13:44

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Even if you're hung up on polearms, a halberd is going to be way better for you than a spear, even with 0 skill. But seriously, try the distortion dagger. When you want to get rid of a monster that can attack you, distortion does the job fast. If the monster can't attack you, then who cares how fast you kill it?

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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 14:13

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Just to expand on the general disto advice in this thread (which I agree with):

Distortion is a very strong brand against melee only enemies, basically for the reasons Lasty mentions. This is doubly so if you're a character like DEWz that just wants things out of your face so you can go back to blasting them with magic. The shortcomings of disto are a) that it is annoying if you want to actually kill things with melee combat, b) it can be quite dangerous when you're fighting enemies that have spells or ranged weapons.

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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 15:11

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Distortion is a very good brand and Warp Weapon is a great, underrated spell. Roll up a **AK sometime when you are in the mood for something different, Aule, and have your mind blown.
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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 16:53

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Off topic, but Lugonu is easily in my top 20 gods.
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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 17:36

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Greyr wrote:Off topic, but Lugonu is easily in my top 20 gods.


In crawl or in general?
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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 17:42

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

all before wrote:
Greyr wrote:Off topic, but Lugonu is easily in my top 20 gods.


In crawl or in general?


Crawl.
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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 17:58

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

So, which weapon type does distortion lend itself best to? Like what would the ideal candidate of Lucy's piety brand? My guess would be an executioners axe for the multi-distort aspect, but maybe the extra damage is better on a claymore?
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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 18:03

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

cerealjynx wrote:So, which weapon type does distortion lend itself best to? Like what would the ideal candidate of Lucy's piety brand? My guess would be an executioners axe for the multi-distort aspect, but maybe the extra damage is better on a claymore?


When the additional damage effect activates the damage is additive, so something quick (qblade, dwhip, etc) does the job nicely.
Last edited by Greyr on Thursday, 11th September 2014, 18:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 18:06

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Distortion on axes is hilarious, in that after one swing of the axe half the group you're attacking will have blinked, teleported, or been banished. On the other hand, if they were footaurs or stone giants then you're shooting at you again. Polearms are nice with distortion in that after things blink you don't need to close quite as much distance. Overall, quickblade of distortion is probably ideal, since you can stack distortion procs as often as possible.

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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 19:38

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

You know... I was thinking about this thread today, and then I rolled up an OpFe and was overjoyed when I found a book of the dragon AND a dagger of electrocution on D1. Later on D4, I carefully slaughtered a sleeping kobold who was packing a glowing short sword. I picked up the shortsword.

I thought specifically about this thread.

I knew better even without this thread.

I wielded that shortsword anyhow...

and then I died about 100 rounds later, deep in the abyss, disappointed with myself. :roll: Next time, I'll worship Lugonu. The altar was right next to me when I got banished.

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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 19:44

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

But if you really read this thread, then why did you unwield that bloody disto dagger?

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Post Thursday, 11th September 2014, 21:10

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

daggaz wrote:and then I died about 100 rounds later, deep in the abyss, disappointed with myself.

And as Aule found out, banishment is far from the worst thing a very early disto unweild can inflict. If you're real lucky it'll just kill you with direct damage. Learndb suggests a max of 43; it's certainly a bunch.
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Post Friday, 12th September 2014, 06:08

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Magipi wrote:But if you really read this thread, then why did you unwield that bloody disto dagger?

fucking kids these days don't do their homework properly when it comes to DCSS How To & When- & Why To's
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

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Post Friday, 12th September 2014, 07:35

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Magipi wrote:But if you really read this thread, then why did you unwield that bloody disto dagger?


Because I had picked up a blowgun and needles, and had been lucky enough to find curare as well. Distortion is great, but Op is so squishy, I figured taking one chance at banishment was better odds than hoping disto would save me every time something did manage to get into melee range. Probably should have just kept the damn thing, tho.

Would also note, that I would eventually find a shortblade with protection, or a useful staff as well, and probably sooner than later.

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Post Friday, 12th September 2014, 11:23

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

FR: guitar of distortion
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Post Friday, 12th September 2014, 11:35

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

  Code:
You shred the dancing broad axe of distortion!!!!
take it easy
  Code:
!lg * won !DD-- min=turns -log
<Sequell> 20749. Bloax, XL24 VSTm, T:13320: http://crawl.lantea.net/crawl/morgue/Bloax/morgue-Bloax-20140907-000920.txt

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 02:57

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

The distortion brand should be automatically ided. At least let one make an intelligent decision before wielding one. There is no reason for this "gotcha" other than malice. All the self-important condescension in the world (even distilled through this one board) cannot make it any more than that.

My most recent character only wielded one class of weapon, ignoring all others, and still got sacked with the distortion brand very early. So I played with it, and it sucks. It's a shit brand, and I hate it. You never know whether you're going to kill the thing or blink it. I finally had enough of the unreliability after finding, scroll-iding, and carrying around a replacement spear of flaming forever, and of course my attempt to rectify the horse shit got him cast into the Abyss (too early), where, after meeting many of those he banished there, he died. It was a good character, too.

Summary: Distortion branded weapons should always be plainly marked as such.

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 03:06

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Distortion is fun and teaches you an important lesson - don't wield weapons out of curiosity.
If you are wielding a runed spear when you have a halberd or trident - it is a mistake.
If you are wielding a runed spear when you have no spear and would like to use one - distortion is really great as it is superior even to spear of electrocution.
My last character wield-IDed an eveningstar of distortion (not optimal because I was a Fo and wanted great mace/dire flail) but even despite I was a pure melee character with Zin who can confuse/paralyze monsters and thus distortion is somewhat annoying, the game was fun and the weapon served me well enough to the point when I replaced it with great mace without caring about Abyss.

Edit. Of course I have had similar experiences with dagger/short sword/spear etc. It is not surprising as even plain spear is enough to win with good tactics.

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 05:11

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Sandman25 wrote:Distortion is fun and teaches you an important lesson - don't wield weapons out of curiosity.

Aule wrote:My most recent character only wielded one class of weapon, ignoring all others, and still got sacked with the distortion brand very early. So I played with it, and it sucks. It's a shit brand, and I hate it.

Sandman, I disagree -- the only lesson distortion teaches is that wielding un-ID'd weapons may -- very rarely -- stick you with distortion. (Cursed weapons are the game element that teaches not to wield un-ID'd weapons in general.) The only other brand with a wield/unwield drawback is vamp, and vamp doesn't even let you wield it (but still ID's itself!) unless you're in more than good shape to absorb its cost. We all have to admit that disto is kind of super-shitty in this sense.

OTOH, I also disagree with Aule -- disto is a great brand, the part that sucks is getting it on a weapon base type that you don't want to be stuck with for very long. Next time it happens, consider joining a god that provides ranged attacks or investing in Evocations so you can deal with enemies that blink away; or just use positioning to deal with blinked foos, put teleported enemies entirely out of mind (there's plenty more XP in the game) and rejoice in your newfound ability to occasionally insta-kill things!
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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 06:41

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Though I thank you for responding, neither of you understand my point. I'm not cursing the brand in general, for one thing. For some characters and playstyles, it may be excellent, but not for my character. When I go to poking something, it's because I know it can be killed with that stick and I want it to die right then. I don't want it to blink, be teleported, or banished to the Abyss. That's just outright annoying.

For another thing, this "don't wield items out of curiosity" mantra is, while instructive, not at all applicable here. There were two weapon types my character would try. Spear or trident. He was using one of those two, plain, still, at XL 8 or 9, when a gnoll on D:6 dropped the first ego version of said weapon. I was happy. I wielded it. I was then unhappy, but I remembered this thread and all the sagacious advice about how great distortion is, so I tried it, and used it and used it and used it for several levels, gaining more and more frustration and displeasure from it with every blinked monster who had a sliver of life left, only to come back again fully healed and every unique who got banished, taking any treasures with him (or her). To say I somehow brought this upon the character by wielding the very first ego weapon of his chosen type only is exactly the kind of condescension I referred to earlier, and all the more prickly because of its irrelevance.

Not everyone with every character must appreciate it. I know I do not with a DEWz. Were I playing a character who has less control over the environment, who relied solely on toe-to-toe melee to make it through the game, and who also was not interested in clearing levels, but just rushing through the game trying to win as fast as possible, then maybe I might appreciate it more. But I'm not playing that character. I'm playing a DEWz who wants the thing that is almost dead to die, not be transported away to happily heal itself, and I want to hoover up everything placed on a level in case there's something I really need. It's quite simple, really.

None of this speaks to the summary of my post, which is that the brand should auto ID with a confirmation to wield it. It only makes sense, especially given the dire circumstances that can be placed upon the unwielder.

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 07:32

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Lasty wrote:Even if you're hung up on polearms, a halberd is going to be way better for you than a spear, even with 0 skill. But seriously, try the distortion dagger. When you want to get rid of a monster that can attack you, distortion does the job fast. If the monster can't attack you, then who cares how fast you kill it?

Unskilled, I think a +0 trident is better than a +0 halberd except against things with high AC. In the tests I did, the halberd averaged a bit more damage than the trident against some monsters, but due to its poor accuracy, it fared badly against things with a bit more EV.

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 07:38

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Kinda the way I see it is there's a lack of balance. Holy weapons don't smite undead upon wielding, vamp doesn't take you immediately to starving (would still be worth it), distortion weapons should have some kind of prompt, beyond a wandering monster having one, and you notice the space bendy messages, or get blinked, or if you're really lucky, one shot straight to the Abyss on D2. But that's the nature of the game. I sort of love the distortion conundrum, if I don't have a god yet, sometimes I'll just go for it and try to banish myself and find a Lugonu alter. But really, all it takes is a scroll of brand weapon, which aren't entirely uncommon before Lair and orc are cleared.

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 09:30

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Aule: I do agree that disto should prompt and auto-ID just like vamp, I was attempting to express that in my reply to Sandman. And I sympathize that disto was not your preferred brand for that character or in general, even though it is powerful and can be adapted to. As to your beef with this situation, here's my philosophical response, no condescension intended.

Far be it from me to tell you how to enjoy the game -- my #0 rule of Crawl is that you should Crawl in the way you most enjoy, regardless of what others say or what is "optimal" -- but since it sounds like you're not having as much fun as you could be, may I gently suggest that maybe your behavior does not entirely fit your priorities? If you want good loot and things to kill, the best way to get it is to press "o" and/or go deeper. This is true whether or not the foo you've been fighting just got blinked/teleported/banished. Chances are good that higher-XP meatbags are waiting for you at the bottom of the stairs, and the deeper you go the better the loot gets.

You say disto teleporting nearly-killed enemies all over the level is annoying, presumably because now you have to track them down and nearly-kill them all over again; and yeah, that's time-consuming. But you describe your playstyle as "hoover[ing] up everything placed on a level" which sounds like a lot of time-consuming exploration anyway, and which is strictly not necessary to win the game or even to survive moving down one floor. Neither is killing every single spawn in the dungeon. You are welcome to play with those self-imposed goals -- I certainly have, and with weirder ones besides -- but don't expect the game to meet you halfway.

As for the risk of banishing enemies with their loot, I honestly can't tell you the last time I took something truly important, in the sense of "vastly better than random floor drops", off a unique. Sometimes Pikel's holding a whip of elec and I'm confident I can kill him on first encounter; more often not. That is literally the only unique in the game whose loot I expect to want on a regular basis. If I've already found a disto weapon and he gets banished, what do I lose? A weapon of similar power to the one I'm wielding, and a little bit of XP (I can't tell from your posts whether you're aware that you get at least 50% XP from banished foos, scaling up depending on how much damage you dealt before banishment). Seems like a fair tradeoff. Even in no-distortion games, the question of whether or not to take that fight is an open one. Sometimes I don't care to use M&F with this character, or I already have a pretty good weapon; in that case maybe killing Pikel isn't worth the risk. Ignoring him is as good as banishing him, minus a little bit more XP (which, again, is plentiful).

My point in both cases is that it sounds like you are maybe kind of hung up on the "completionist" mentality, and that this really has nothing to do with the distortion brand -- disto just magnifies the problem. Perhaps by relaxing that stricture a bit you will find your way toward better harmony with the capriciousness of Crawl's RNG, which after all is the ultimate foo we must defeat.
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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 12:12

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

If you try to wield an un-id'd vamp weapon but you meet the requirements to wield it you will do so immediately, with no warning. This is actually identical to how distortion works (distortion, of course, has no requirements, so you always wield the weapon).

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 14:49

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

If you don't want to wield a trident of distortion then before wielding a glowing trident, ask yourself if you want to wield a trident of distortion, and if you don't then either identify it or throw it away. The last time I wielded a distortion weapon I didn't want to wield was hundreds of games ago.

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 15:31

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

tedric,

Sandman25 wrote:If you are wielding a runed spear when you have a halberd or trident - it is a mistake.


Did you miss it? Can you provide an example when you had problems with distortion?

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 15:39

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

Aule wrote:Though I thank you for responding, neither of you understand my point. I'm not cursing the brand in general, for one thing. For some characters and playstyles, it may be excellent, but not for my character. When I go to poking something, it's because I know it can be killed with that stick and I want it to die right then. I don't want it to blink, be teleported, or banished to the Abyss. That's just outright annoying.

For another thing, this "don't wield items out of curiosity" mantra is, while instructive, not at all applicable here. There were two weapon types my character would try. Spear or trident. He was using one of those two, plain, still, at XL 8 or 9, when a gnoll on D:6 dropped the first ego version of said weapon. I was happy. I wielded it. I was then unhappy, but I remembered this thread and all the sagacious advice about how great distortion is, so I tried it, and used it and used it and used it for several levels, gaining more and more frustration and displeasure from it with every blinked monster who had a sliver of life left, only to come back again fully healed and every unique who got banished, taking any treasures with him (or her). To say I somehow brought this upon the character by wielding the very first ego weapon of his chosen type only is exactly the kind of condescension I referred to earlier, and all the more prickly because of its irrelevance.

Not everyone with every character must appreciate it. I know I do not with a DEWz. Were I playing a character who has less control over the environment, who relied solely on toe-to-toe melee to make it through the game, and who also was not interested in clearing levels, but just rushing through the game trying to win as fast as possible, then maybe I might appreciate it more. But I'm not playing that character. I'm playing a DEWz who wants the thing that is almost dead to die, not be transported away to happily heal itself, and I want to hoover up everything placed on a level in case there's something I really need. It's quite simple, really.

None of this speaks to the summary of my post, which is that the brand should auto ID with a confirmation to wield it. It only makes sense, especially given the dire circumstances that can be placed upon the unwielder.


Well, you should not use a spear of distortion like it is a spear of flaming, you must adapt to it.
Major benefit of distortion for DEWz is that it can save your life from full HP unique, not to kill almost dead rat to save 1 MP.
While blink/banishment can be annoying (TRJ, Shadow Dragon) you should not worry too much about almost dead monster escaping, there is too much XP in the game especially for DE. If you really want some gear, don't attack the monster in melee, it is not that hard for DEWz.

Edit. If you were using a trident ("one of the two") but wielded a spear of distortion while not ready to play with the brand, it was your mistake, sorry.

Edit2. It looks like it was covered by latest posts in the thread but I am not going to remove this message, it proves many players have similar points of view.

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Post Saturday, 20th September 2014, 17:53

Re: Whoops, you equipped a distortion weapon!

See this list?

  Code:
Vanquished Creatures
  2 tentacled starspawn (Abyss:1)
  3 ogre magi
  Harold (D:10)
  3 hydras
  Erica (Lair:3)
  Nergalle (Lair:1)
  A wretched star (Abyss:1)
  Erolcha (D:10)
  2 deep trolls
  A hill giant (Orc:4)
  An anaconda skeleton (Abyss:1)
  2 orc knights
  An orc sorcerer (Orc:3)
  2 cyclopes (Orc:4)
  3 elephants (Lair:3)
  2 molten gargoyles (Volcano)
  An orange demon (Abyss:1)
  A ghost moth simulacrum (Abyss:1)
  3 komodo dragons
  A fire drake (Lair:3)
  5 spiny frogs
  10 two-headed ogres
  7 trolls
  2 polar bears
  8 raiju (Abyss:1)
  5 blink frogs (Lair:4)
  5 basilisks
  12 yaks
  A griffon skeleton (D:7)
  A chaos spawn (Abyss:1)
  A hill giant zombie (D:11)
  A spriggan (Lair:2)
  A hungry ghost (D:11)
  5 hippogriffs
  A fire bat (Volcano)
  2 steam dragons (D:5)
  A hog (shapeshifter) (Abyss:1)
  6 wolves
  2 small abominations (Abyss:1)
  19 orc warriors
  3 ice beasts
  2 porcupines
  3 black bears
  Purgy (Sewer)
  3 sky beasts
  23 ogres
  A spider (Abyss:1)
  A necrophage (D:8)
  5 water moccasins
  6 centaurs
  5 crocodiles
  2 phantoms
  Sigmund (D:2)
  A big kobold (D:11)
  19 giant frogs
  A water moccasin zombie (D:8)
  2 water moccasin skeletons
  9 killer bees
  3 scorpions
  A yak zombie (D:10)
  A yak skeleton (D:9)
  2 lava snakes (Volcano)
  3 goliath beetles
  8 crimson imps
  3 quasits
  8 wights
  A centaur zombie (D:8)
  18 jellies
  5 electric eels (Lair:3)
  14 orc priests
  12 hounds
  5 iguanas
  24 orc wizards
  12 worker ants
  8 sheep
  A hound skeleton (D:7)
  A worker ant zombie (D:5)
  An orc zombie (D:7)
  15 adders
  13 gnolls
  36 green rats
  4 shadow imps
  A giant mite (D:5)
  5 worms
  3 ufetubi (Abyss:1)
  5 giant geckos
  3 oozes
  142 orcs
  4 ball pythons
  19 bats
  9 giant cockroaches
  A gnoll zombie (D:5)
  16 goblins
  19 hobgoblins
  12 jackals
  A giant gecko zombie (D:7)
  9 giant newts
  3 giant spores
  32 kobolds
  A kobold skeleton (D:4)
  2 orc skeletons (D:7)
  8 quokkas
  21 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:6)
  19 ballistomycetes
  2 bushes (Lair:2)
  7 butterflies (D:9)
  19 fungi
  25 plants
  4 starspawn tentacles (Abyss:1)
808 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (collateral kills)
  A killer bee (D:7)
  Terence (D:2)
  2 adders
  A giant cockroach (D:5)
  A hobgoblin (D:2)
6 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A hill giant (Orc:4)
  An orc knight (D:11)
  An ugly thing (D:11)
  A black mamba (Lair:4)
  A two-headed ogre (D:11)
  A deep elf mage (D:10)
  2 ice beasts
  3 orc warriors
  A necrophage (D:10)
  A centaur (D:9)
  2 giant frogs
  2 killer bees
  5 crimson imps
  An orc priest (Abyss:1)
  2 iguanas
  A jelly (D:9)
  A quasit (D:11)
  3 orc wizards
  A shadow imp (D:7)
  4 white imps (D:8)
  A giant mite (Abyss:1)
  5 orcs
  A hobgoblin (D:3)
  3 giant spores
  6 ballistomycetes
  A fungus (Lair:4)
  4 plants
  13 starspawn tentacles (Abyss:1)
  268 starspawn tentacle segments (Abyss:1)
337 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 1151 creatures vanquished

These all appeared between D:1 and D:11, Orc:1 through 4 and Lair:1 through 4. I'm quite comfortable playing this character. I'm not complaining about OoD monsters - pfft, I'll kill them anyway - or overpowered ghosts - I ain't afraida no ghost - or the like. I'm simply stating that the distortion brand is a gotcha, plain and simple. Either the game is like that, or it isn't. Some say it is, others say it isn't supposed to be. With this, it is. With vamp, it isn't.

In the early game, IDing is limited. Already walking around with half potions unknown because of the parsimony about ID scrolls. IDing weapons just to find one decent one to use would be a severe waste and drain.

If you were using a trident ("one of the two") but wielded a spear of distortion while not ready to play with the brand, it was your mistake, sorry.

That would be true only if I knew that I was going to be wielding a spear of distortion and went ahead and did so of my own volition, without a surprising gotcha. Either vampiric should change its behavior or distortion should. Right now you're arguing for an arbitrary distinction that exists only because it exists. Guess you don't see the tautology there.
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