How to go from 3 runes to 15?


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Dungeon Dilettante

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Post Tuesday, 16th September 2014, 22:22

How to go from 3 runes to 15?

I have two wins under my belt (http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/gnuvince.html) and I was hoping that I could go for 15 runes, but when I went into the Freezing Hell sub-branch, I got nearly killed by the randomly spawning monsters on floor 7. Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed in those tough branches and make it out alive?

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 16th September 2014, 22:43

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

If you are talking about DEWz, I usually get Necromutation for extended, it solves Torment problem and provides AC boost (Clarity or MR+++++ are required because lich cannot cure confusion).
As DE I don't enter Hell branches before I get 10-11 runes.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 16th September 2014, 23:03

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Well you start with getting Abyssal/Slimy rune, thats the first step. Then I like to farm elf/crypt/Zot for XP, and then having seen all the "normal" safe content, depending on gear/skilling, I either do tomb or start with pan. Hells are last for me.
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Vestibule Violator

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Post Tuesday, 16th September 2014, 23:16

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Have some form of melee, MP recovery, haste, control teleport and controlled blink. Don't do Hells right away, Tomb or Pan are easier.
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Wednesday, 17th September 2014, 00:23

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Try Slime, Abyss, and Pan before Hell.

Also, my first 15 rune win was a Kiku worshipper, so if you'er used to casters consider that. Vehumet can also be a good post-game god, certainly, so don't think that that won't work, but I think Kiku's very underrated for a 15 rune win. He gives torment and mummy curse resistance, which makes, Pan, Hell, and especially Tomb easier, and request corpse gives really good corpses in Abyss, Pan, Hell, and Tomb. A few uses of request corpse followed by Simulacrum is enough to kill most things you'll encounter in extended, besides maybe Cerebov (Firestorm wipes out Simulacrums really fast), Lom Lobon (immune to cold, so they do less damage to him, and he does lots of AoE too), and The Royal Jelly (Slime is the one branch of extended where Kiku doesn't give good corpses (only giant amoebas)). Blasting enemies with bolts of draining from behind an army of undead is also a great way to handle the first three runes.

Crypt Cleanser

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Post Wednesday, 17th September 2014, 02:27

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

I did hells last for my one transition win for 15. By that time, I had plenty of mapping scrolls to make the descents quicker. I didn't explore any of the hell branches. It was in, get down to the rune, kill the boss, grab the rune, and get out as fast as possible. Also, thanks to several brief zig scums in my hunt for the Pan runes, I had rF+++ rC+++, rN+++ and MR+++++(overkill, by any account, but I didn't mind). Had cBlink for escape, and FS/Tornado/Glaciate/LCS to lay waste. By that time, I had been using an orb of energy, and had evoc maxed for it, as well as the regeneration spell active at all times, so in all I spent very little time there for that clock to tick.

Lair Larrikin

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Post Wednesday, 17th September 2014, 11:35

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Although a powerful caster like a DEWz is tempting to try for 15 runes with, I strongly suggest a background that will give you higher HP. In the late game (and in Hell particularly) you can find your HP dropping very quickly if things go a bit pear shaped and a squishy caster requires very careful play to survive with. Torment immunity from Lichform is very useful, but you still take plenty of damage from other sources, e.g. hellfire, demons in the face from hell effects. I have tried DEWz in the late game and had my fair share of YASDs there. Please note, I'm not suggesting that high HP is a necessity, but it may help ease the transition to extended.

I have one 15 rune win under my belt as a DDEE^Makhleb, and I spent plenty of time in Lichform to evade torment, but I also greatly appreciated the insanely high AC an HP I had.

Re the temptation of Lichform, I'm currently playing a MiBE and have 13 runes, and I have found that a crossbow to the face is an excellent defence against tormenting enemies, or at close range an antimagic axe leads to many falters. I was sure that torment would be a nightmare without immunity, but with a degree of LOS control where possible and prioritising torment capable targets I have rarely been tormented, and only on a very few occasions have I been given a double or triple dose.

Dungeon Master

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Post Wednesday, 17th September 2014, 12:37

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Sandman25 wrote:If you are talking about DEWz, I usually get Necromutation for extended, it solves Torment problem and provides AC boost (Clarity or MR+++++ are required because lich cannot cure confusion).
As DE I don't enter Hell branches before I get 10-11 runes.

Feel free to experiment with Necromutation, but keep in mind that it's very, very expensive in XP and blocks all potions, including haste, might, agility, and heal wounds. Keep in mind also that it makes monsters with dispel undead into a huge threat. Do not consider Necromutation mandatory or even the best of several options, at least not without understanding the costs involved.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 17th September 2014, 13:23

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Necromutation is not that expensive for a character with Int 39, Necromancy aptitude 2 and Transmutation aptitude 1, that was a specific advice for DEWz (last winning character of OP had Int 39). Please don't assume I suggest to use Necromutation for every character ;)

Temple Termagant

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Post Thursday, 18th September 2014, 19:42

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Lasty wrote:
Sandman25 wrote:If you are talking about DEWz, I usually get Necromutation for extended, it solves Torment problem and provides AC boost (Clarity or MR+++++ are required because lich cannot cure confusion).
As DE I don't enter Hell branches before I get 10-11 runes.

Feel free to experiment with Necromutation, but keep in mind that it's very, very expensive in XP and blocks all potions, including haste, might, agility, and heal wounds. Keep in mind also that it makes monsters with dispel undead into a huge threat. Do not consider Necromutation mandatory or even the best of several options, at least not without understanding the costs involved.

Usually if you're doing extended you've found\acquired a wand of haste and healwounds by then so haste/heal potions aren't that important. Also note, that you can end the necromutation transformation in 1 turn if you desperately need access to potions or certain spells (Revivification, Death's Door, Sublimation, etc), or are worried about dispel undead. Biggest risk is confusion, so clarity is really important if you're going to use necromutation, especially if you want to use a crystal ball of energy.

I usually like to play extended, and have tried various playstyles, and find necromutation to be the most consistent in safety.

Other advice, if you're using good gods, switch to Zin for the Hells. He blocks pretty much all hell effects at max piety, so you can safely rest there. Makes them far easier.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 18th September 2014, 19:50

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

stefan3iii wrote:you can end the necromutation transformation in 1 turn

Switching off forms takes 1.5 turns because ???

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Thursday, 18th September 2014, 20:19

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Sar wrote:
stefan3iii wrote:you can end the necromutation transformation in 1 turn

Switching off forms takes 1.5 turns because ???


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Tomb Titivator

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Post Thursday, 18th September 2014, 21:03

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Ive noticed a lot of people recommending to not do the Hells before Pan, but really Dis and Tartarus aren't that bad with rN+++.

edit: I always get Tartarus and Gehenna confused
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Pandemonium Purger

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Post Thursday, 18th September 2014, 23:43

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Greyr wrote:Ive noticed a lot of people recommending to not do the Hells before Pan, but really Dis and Tartarus aren't that bad with rN+++.

edit: I always get Tartarus and Gehenna confused

Dis is the hardest, most awful hell. Why would you recommend someone do it first?
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 19th September 2014, 03:53

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Greyr wrote:Ive noticed a lot of people recommending to not do the Hells before Pan, but really Dis and Tartarus aren't that bad with rN+++.

edit: I always get Tartarus and Gehenna confused


Tartarus is the white one with the bits of pickle relish in it.
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Tomb Titivator

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Post Friday, 19th September 2014, 04:09

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

Patashu wrote:
Greyr wrote:Ive noticed a lot of people recommending to not do the Hells before Pan, but really Dis and Tartarus aren't that bad with rN+++.

edit: I always get Tartarus and Gehenna confused

Dis is the hardest, most awful hell. Why would you recommend someone do it first?


I disagree. Cocytus is FAR worse.

Also, I never recommended that the OP does it first? I was just pointing out that certain Hells could be just as viable for a character who is considering Pan.
If you are offended by something I've posted, just PM me. It probably wasn't intentional.

Temple Termagant

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Post Friday, 19th September 2014, 13:13

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

I went from a 3 rune win to a 15 rune, DsIE. Makhleb healing and Glaciate were two extremely powerful things that kept me alive through several mistakes I made.

Note I only have won twice, and did extended once, so my advice may not be the best, YMMV, etc.

You will almost certainly want some kind of level 9 attack spell, should be easy to get online as a DE.

Clear everything "easy" first to get spells and other things online. You'll definitely want some fighting skill for more health. Get a melee skill up as well, some enemies you'll fight are easy to take out, and a quick weapon swap and a few smacks are better than spending MP in many cases.

The depths Zig is a nice place to get some potions, maybe some useful equip, and some more exp. You don't have to make it to the bottom, and indeed that may be hard if you don't have some reliable ways committing mass killdudes.

Also, don't keep lichform on in the abyss unless you have a good source of stat restore, because those stars will ruin your day.

Pan is a good place to hang out if you need consumables as well (and don't want to or have no access to a zig). Plus you find zig's in there. Just note if you are not ready to face the unique pan lords, you may find one of their levels and end up losing their rune.

Run early, run often.

Temple Termagant

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Post Friday, 19th September 2014, 15:53

Re: How to go from 3 runes to 15?

My own opinion on hell difficulty from hardest to easiest is:
Fire > Ice -> Undead -> Iron

Fire is awful because of all the hellfire in there, for which there is no defense other than killing quickly. Ice always seems to have endless ice fiends and I although I've never drowned on Ice 7, I know someday I will and be very angry about it. The other two are just much easier as long as you have good rN.

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