Qalzal question (and other stuff about new version…)

[Jeremiah]

Ok, so I haven't been playing for a while and I'm not familiar with many of the changes in 0.15.

I've got a HOSk of Qalzal at the moment (probably would have gone with Makhleb or Oka, but saw Q's altar in the temple and decided to give it a try.)

Is the upheaval ability powerful enough to use as a primary ranged attack (if I train Invocations), rather than training crossbows or something?

Anything else I should be aware of with Qalzal? I'm guessing the noise means there is no point training stealth and I can expect lots of monsters to be attracted to my location.

Anything else about the new version to watch out for?

[tasonir]

Is the upheaval ability powerful enough to use as a primary ranged attack (if I train Invocations), rather than training crossbows or something?

Anything else I should be aware of with Qalzal? I'm guessing the noise means there is no point training stealth and I can expect lots of monsters to be attracted to my location.

Yes, yes and yes. Upheaval scales well with invocations and will even increase in size around 17 or so invocations. I'm not sure if I'd skip any other ranged attack since it does cost piety, but usually 2 shots will kill most ranged threats. Crossbows are very exp heavy, so if you're training invocations I'd probably pick a cheaper backup (throwing can be pretty good with only 10-15 skill for example).

[skyspire]

I'm playing Qalzal on my present character and it seems to shine best with high invocation. At level 17-18 invocation , disaster area ability can wreck havoc on vault:5 and pretty much clear the screen if not unlucky with the randomness of it. Another good backup is evocations if you find some good evocables (lamp of fire, vial, fan, rods, wands etc.). With high evocation and melee, with the right items you don't even need throwing or crossbows or bows or slings, IMHO (or magic for that matter). I agree that throwing is very good for the small skill investment as tasonir said

[happinesssam]

Another Qalzal question - what is his wrath like?

His was the first altar I saw so I picked him up on a whim for a character who I wasn't expecting to do well. He did work in the early/mid game but now I have shatter+ring of flames online he seems less useful and I am thinking of switching to Vehemut or Sif for the mp regen + mage utility. I'm in the extended game and I'm a bit worried about some ridiculous wrath effect hitting me at a bad time and I can't find what his wrath is like anywhere.

[Magipi]

Thinking about switching to an awesome post-endgame god (like, say,, Zin) is understandable. But Vehumet? Or Sif Muna??

[happinesssam]

You're probably right, but at the moment I am finding my only major issue is running out of mp - I haven't found a staff of energy and the crystal ball I do have is too unreliable. I was also hoping to get death's door and necromutation at some point, though I haven't invested so much into necromancy that it would be a deal breaker. I was planing on doing tomb searching for a staff of energy then deciding on what to do.

Apologies for derail, but this is my current morgue and I'd appreciate any advice. My vague plan was to go for Firestorm + shatter + beat things up with my staff of earth and statue form which has been working pretty well for me so far.

[Magipi]

For mana conservation, getting a good weapon is the best answer. Although I don't really understand, sometimes you fight unarmed, sometimes with your staff? Why?
Choosing unarmed is questionable. UC is very good at high levels, but at skill level 11 it's mediocre. The staff must be a better choice (though I never used staff of earth, only fire.)

Also, what would be the point in getting another level-9 spell? Shatter is not good enough?

[happinesssam]

I didn't find the staff of earth until Zot 4, but I did find a manual of UC, and with Statue form even just 11 gives respectable damage along with QalZal's clouds. I was thinking about going for another level 9 as shatter is so weak versus fiends, who are, I find, the biggest threats in the extended - iron shot has such a poor range and OOD gives them too much time to torment. Should I just concentrate on maxing fighting/dodging/spellcasting?

Also, back to my original question - Qalzal's wrath. Will it it see me getting dumped in lava while I'm in the middle of fighting Antaeus?

[tasonir]

Statue form and UC level 11 does good damage, but you have to watch out for the speed issue. Having 8 aut delay and being slowed makes your attack 12 aut, or 13 if you fail the shield roll. Getting higher UC will increase your final attack speed faster, since it takes the 50% hit from statue form. If you're going to go with it, try to get unarmed up to around 18-20ish. The staff of earth is a perfectly decent weapon if you would rather not.

Here's my OpTm for comparison, who did go more melee oriented and used unarmed for my primary attack (with iron shot/shatter as backups): http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 105635.txt

[Nemora]

Qazlal would be underwhelming for endgame when you're only at 9.1 Invo, yes.

At 27 Invo, upheaval can take out most of the really nasty tormentors within a couple uses. And disaster area can obliterate large packs of enemies when you get surrounded. I'm sure getting Invo up into its 20s, at least, would help make better use of Qaz, but unless you want to put XP there, you're probably better off with another god.

I will say that last time I used Qaz, I used a strategy specifically focused on abusing its powers. It was a MiFi, so I had no issues dumping the XP into it, but I maxed out Evo and used copious lamps of fire. I even picked up freezing cloud. To take out troublesome fiends and other beasties, I would often use upheaval, yes... but if I needed a wall of something, I would make some clouds with one of these two and then use Elemental Force. This strategy proved extremely effective.

Here's the morgue if you're interested. Obviously the same strategy won't work for your character, but maybe this will give you an idea of things?

I haven't dumped Qaz, so unfortunately I can't tell you much about the wrath.

[happinesssam]

Just to let you know that of course you are right. After reading I focused invocations and yeah, upheaval worked a treat against the worst tormentors/summoners almost all the way through the extended game. As I was only using it on those and was shattering/iron shot/pummeling everything else I was always on 5/6* piety and I'd consider it the best smite targeted spell in the game. Far more damage than airstrike, less costly than firestorm, more reliable than portal projectile or lrd, and it's aoe.

It came unstuck in my first zig (I found two) as I came across too many rooms which were shatter resistant and I had to bail when my piety went down to 3* from over using disaster area, which at 27 invocation was able to clear whole pan themed levels in 2-3 uses. By the second zig I had so much xp I had was able to get Tornado online and Tornado + Shatter + Distaster area turns even the hardest floor into purée and gave me my first Zig clear!

[Lasty]

Qaz seems pretty nuts right now -- I have a HuNe in progress that joined Qaz on a whim, despite the massive anti-synergy w/ my dagger of elec (at the time) and necromantic minions. I've been playing the character pretty badly, honestly, with some really silly skilling, but since I got 20 Invo before I started making bad choices, the character is still a steamroller.

I spent 3000 turns in the Abyss after being banished on Orc:4 by a distortion dagger, and I thought I was screwed: all that Qaz noise means an endless parade of Abyss denizens. As it turns out I only had one close call, and that was due to fat-fingering tab which activated a berserkitis temporary mutation. Everything else scary I could run away from or kill with Upheaval or (in only the most extreme situations) drink might/berserk and kill it.

I don't think Qaz noise is a meaningful drawback for Qaz, since the god also gives you amazing tools for crushing groups of monsters.