When do I teach a melee guy some magic?


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Slime Squisher

Posts: 346

Joined: Thursday, 15th August 2013, 11:33

Post Friday, 18th July 2014, 22:54

When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

I don't feel like a dump is necessary, just wondering when y'all like to train up magic schools for melee characters. In this case, I've got a MiGl with some decent conjuration spells available. Part of me is tempted to train into it ASAP, another train of thought tells me to wait until I have a few runes under my belt, and of course there's the voice of reason that says to only focus on the melee centric skills.

In this scenario, I'm considering learning IMB and battlesphere to have some badass ranged support. Should I start dropping points into Int if this is something I wanna do? I've gotten some decent batlemages this way, but always end up neglecting defensive skills and YASD. Here's the dump if that's relevant to your interests!

  Code:
 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.15-a0-2150-g4d68560 (webtiles) character file.

cerealjynx the Tortoise (Minotaur Gladiator)       Turns: 13174, Time: 00:43:50

HP  88/88        AC 18     Str 21      XL: 11   Next: 54%
MP   4/4         EV 13     Int  5      God: Okawaru [****..]
Gold 800         SH  0     Dex 13      Spells:  0 memorised, 10 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis .     a - +1 quarterstaff
rCold  . . .     Clarity  .     w - +0 ring mail {rPois}
rNeg   . . .     rCorr    .     (no shield)
rPois  +         rRot     .     s - +2 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   +     j - +0 cloak
SustAb +         Warding  .     y - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     O - +0 pair of boots
Gourm  .                        S - amulet of guardian spirit
MR     .....                    (no ring)
                                r - ring of sustain abilities

@: not resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2
a: Heroism, Renounce Religion


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is greatly pleased with you.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 12 of its levels.

You have collected 849 gold pieces.
You have spent 49 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +1 quarterstaff (weapon)
 N - a +0 blowgun of evasion
Missiles
 d - a throwing net (quivered)
 M - 32 poisoned needles
Armour
 j - a +0 cloak (worn)
 s - a +2 hat (worn)
 w - a +0 ring mail of poison resistance (worn)
 y - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 O - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
Magical devices
 h - a wand of digging {zapped: 2}
 o - a wand of slowing {recharged}
 C - a wand of teleportation {recharged}
 U - a wand of cold {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 f - 10 bread rations
Scrolls
 e - 5 scrolls of identify
Jewellery
 r - a ring of sustain abilities (left hand)
 S - an amulet of guardian spirit (around neck)
Potions
 b - a potion of cancellation
 c - a potion of berserk rage
 v - a potion of haste
 z - a potion of agility
 P - a potion of invisibility
 V - a potion of magic
 X - a potion of heal wounds
Miscellaneous
 Y - a stone of tremors


   Skills:
 + Level 5.6 Fighting
 - Level 10.0 Staves
 - Level 2.0 Throwing
 - Level 17.0 Armour
 - Level 6.6 Dodging


You have 10 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (9/15)             Temple (1/1) D:7            Lair (2/8) D:9
   Orc: D:9-12     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 [


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.


Message History

You drop 3 scrolls of remove curse.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Put on which piece of jewellery? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Okay, then.
Drop what? (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion.
Read which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
Charge which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
As you read the scroll of recharging, it crumbles to dust.
Your wand of teleportation {empty} glows for a moment.
Drop what? (_ for help) (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You drop 4 scrolls of recharging.
Eat one of 2 royal jellies? (ye/n/q/i?)
You continue eating.
You finish eating. That royal jelly was delicious!
Save game and exit?
Welcome back, cerealjynx the Minotaur Gladiator.
Okawaru says: Bring me glory in combat!
Press ? for a list of commands and other information.

.(........#
..........#
 .........##
 #.........#
 #.........#
 #........#
 #........##
 #.........##
 #........#@#
 #.........##
 #........##
 #....<...##
##....<...P#
#P........##
#.........#
##........#
 #........#


There are no monsters in sight!

Vanquished Creatures
  The ghost of Meddlon the Chucker, an experienced HaAs of Vehumet (D:7)
  Pikel (D:9)
  A griffon (Lair:1)
  A salamander (shapeshifter) (D:9)
  The ghost of HisMajestyBOB the Gusty, an experienced HEAE (D:6)
  A gargoyle (D:8)
  A spiny frog (Lair:1)
  2 komodo dragons (D:9)
  Grinder (D:4)
  Prince Ribbit (D:9)
  A troll (D:9)
  A two-headed ogre (D:9)
  A deep elf mage (D:9)
  A wyvern (Temple)
  5 yaks (Lair:1)
  5 hippogriffs
  Grum (D:8)
  3 steam dragons
  3 wolves (D:8)
  2 water moccasins (Lair:2)
  A black bear (D:9)
  An ice beast (D:5)
  A black bear (shapeshifter) (D:9)
  2 orc warriors
  4 phantoms
  A sky beast (D:9)
  A manticore zombie (D:9)
  2 ogres
  A manticore skeleton (D:8)
  8 crocodiles
  4 centaurs
  A big kobold (D:9)
  6 giant frogs
  2 gnoll sergeants
  3 jellies
  2 hippogriff skeletons
  2 crimson imps
  A goliath beetle (D:6)
  3 orc wizards
  A gnoll shaman (D:4)
  6 hounds
  5 orc priests
  8 iguanas
  Natasha (D:5)
  10 worker ants
  An elf skeleton (D:9)
  A hound skeleton (D:4)
  8 adders
  31 gnolls
  20 green rats
  A giant mite (D:6)
  A worm (D:3)
  An iguana zombie (D:7)
  10 giant geckos
  An ooze (D:3)
  26 orcs
  4 ball pythons
  17 bats
  4 giant cockroaches
  11 goblins
  23 hobgoblins
  7 jackals
  5 quokkas
  7 giant newts
  A giant spore (D:7)
  A hobgoblin zombie (D:7)
  25 kobolds
  2 orc skeletons
  2 orc zombies
  16 rats
  A rat skeleton (D:7)
  2 ballistomycetes (D:7)
  2 butterflies (D:7)
  A plant (D:7)
343 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  The ghost of Horhen the Thaumaturge, an experienced DEWz of Vehumet (Lair:1)
  4 slaves (D:9)
  A butterfly (Temple)
  2 fungi (D:8)
8 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 351 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | cerealjynx, the Minotaur Gladiator, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 18/18 MP: 1/1
   122 | D:1      | Reached skill level 1 in Armour
   124 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 9/25 MP: 1/1
  1000 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Staves
  1011 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 30/30 MP: 2/2
  1277 | D:2      | Found a snail-covered altar of Cheibriados.
  1306 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 30/38 MP: 2/2
  1994 | D:2      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 4/46 MP: 2/2
  2658 | D:3      | Reached skill level 5 in Staves
  2758 | D:3      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  3240 | D:4      | Noticed Grinder
  3249 | D:4      | Found Qoraf's Armour Shoppe.
  3330 | D:4      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 49/53 MP: 3/3
  3344 | D:4      | Noticed a phantom
  3657 | D:4      | Bought a +0 chain mail for 49 gold pieces
  3836 | D:4      | Killed a phantom
  3836 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  3838 | D:4      | Paralysed by Grinder for 4 turns
  3844 | D:4      | Killed Grinder
  3844 | D:4      | Reached skill level 6 in Staves
  3844 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  3844 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 27/61 MP: 3/3
  4102 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  4108 | D:4      | Noticed a phantom
  4118 | D:4      | Killed a phantom
  4492 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  4531 | D:5      | Found a shattered altar of Ashenzari.
  4541 | D:5      | Reached skill level 7 in Staves
  4678 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 58/69 MP: 3/3
  5132 | D:5      | Reached skill level 8 in Staves
  5511 | D:5      | Noticed Natasha
  5518 | D:5      | Killed Natasha
  6093 | D:6      | Reached skill level 9 in Staves
  6143 | D:6      | Noticed HisMajestyBOB's ghost (experienced HEAE)
  6364 | D:6      | Killed HisMajestyBOB's ghost
  6364 | D:6      | Reached XP level 9. HP: 42/74 MP: 4/4
  6746 | D:7      | Found a staircase to the Ecumenical Temple.
  6755 | Temple   | Entered the Ecumenical Temple
  6759 | Temple   | Became a worshipper of Warmaster Okawaru
  7265 | D:7      | Noticed Meddlon's ghost (experienced HaAs)
  7468 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Staves
  7708 | D:7      | Killed Meddlon's ghost
  7708 | D:7      | Acquired Okawaru's first power
  7708 | D:7      | Reached skill level 10 in Armour
  7816 | D:8      | Reached skill level 11 in Armour
  8060 | D:8      | Found an opulent altar of Gozag.
  8297 | D:8      | Found a glowing golden altar of the Shining One.
  8297 | D:8      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  8298 | D:8      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  8441 | D:8      | Noticed a gargoyle
  8488 | D:8      | Killed a gargoyle
  8488 | D:8      | Reached skill level 12 in Armour
  8488 | D:8      | Reached XP level 10. HP: 14/82 MP: 2/4
  9297 | D:8      | Upgraded the game from 0.15-a0-2144-g51de978 to 0.15-a0-2150-g4d68560
  9547 | D:9      | Noticed Grum
  9570 | D:8      | Reached skill level 13 in Armour
  9651 | D:8      | Killed Grum
  9799 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  9799 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  9800 | D:9      | Noticed a red wasp
  9800 | D:9      | Noticed Pikel
  9800 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  9800 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  9800 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  9801 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  9801 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  9815 | D:9      | Noticed a ghost crab
  9815 | D:9      | a red wasp changed into a ghost crab
  9858 | D:9      | Noticed a salamander
  9858 | D:9      | a ghost crab changed into a salamander
  9870 | D:9      | Killed Pikel
  9877 | D:9      | Killed a salamander
  9877 | D:9      | Reached skill level 14 in Armour
 10184 | D:9      | Noticed Prince Ribbit
 10196 | D:9      | Killed Prince Ribbit
 10355 | D:9      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
 10450 | D:9      | Reached skill level 15 in Armour
 10482 | D:9      | Found a staircase to the Lair.
 10494 | D:9      | Reached XP level 11. HP: 61/88 MP: 3/4
 11048 | D:9      | Got a heavily runed leather armour
 11154 | D:9      | Identified the cursed -1 leather armour of Vointor {Str+3 Int+4} (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)
 11621 | Lair:1   | Entered Level 1 of the Lair of Beasts
 11894 | Lair:1   | Noticed Horhen's ghost (experienced DEWz)
 11907 | Lair:1   | Killed Horhen's ghost
 11907 | Lair:1   | Reached skill level 16 in Armour
 12816 | Lair:1   | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
 13103 | Lair:2   | Reached skill level 17 in Armour


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Quarterstaff      |    72 |   176 |   446 |   456 ||  1150
 Fire: Shortbow          |       |       |     2 |     5 ||     7
Throw: Throwing net      |       |       |     6 |     6 ||    12
Invok: Heroism           |       |       |     3 |     6 ||     9
Evoke: Wand              |       |       |     5 |     3 ||     8
  Use: Scroll            |     2 |     8 |    10 |     8 ||    28
       Potion            |       |     2 |     4 |     2 ||     8
 Stab: Held in net/web   |       |       |     3 |     1 ||     4
       Invisible         |       |       |       |     2 ||     2
  Eat: Chunk             |     1 |     6 |    14 |    11 ||    32
       Pizza             |       |     1 |       |       ||     1
       Beef jerky        |       |       |     1 |     2 ||     3
       Royal jelly       |       |       |       |     1 ||     1
       Fruit             |       |       |       |     1 ||     1

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 5382

Joined: Friday, 25th November 2011, 07:36

Post Friday, 18th July 2014, 23:06

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

It's very unlikely that a melee dude wants to get pure damage conjurations like IMB/Battlesphere. You usually want spells that make you better at things you already do - smash faces. Blink, regeneration, haste, ozo's shield thingee, that sort of stuff.

If you just want to be able to ping things at range, ranged weapons usually work just as well for a lot less investment. Javelins are easy to toss with 0 throwing, but you could also put some points into a bow or crossbow (or sling if you are using a shield).

Barkeep

Posts: 3890

Joined: Wednesday, 14th August 2013, 23:25

Location: USA

Post Friday, 18th July 2014, 23:09

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

You could dump a lot of experience into conjurations and some into charms, and put the rest of your stat ups into intelligence in order to cast IMB and battlesphere eventually, but it isn't a very good idea on this character.

You have 5 intelligence, terrible apts for spell casting, and at best you would be getting a form of offense that you could essentially replicate with evocations and/or ranged attacks (possibly god abilities but you are with okawaru already so not in this case).

What you want to do with this guy is wear something with higher base AC than ring mail (because you have already trained 17 armour). Get some invocations, more fighting, and then go ahead and get 14 staves. Putting a few points into dex and picking up more dodging wouldn't be a bad idea.

There are plenty of spells that are not very spellpower reliant, or that are still useful at low spellpower (and some that are completely independent of spellpower) that are solid choices to pick up on a character like this, eventually. But first you want to get your fundamentals in line, and in any case I'd strongly recommend against getting IMB and battlesphere on this dude.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 346

Joined: Thursday, 15th August 2013, 11:33

Post Saturday, 19th July 2014, 00:00

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

The ring mail is purely for the rPois, I've got some plate to jump into! I'm pretty familiar with skilling up melee dudes, all my level up stats have gone into Dex so far, Invocations will get focused on as soon as I get to *** piety, doesn't take long at all to get finesse in the single digits. I'll abandon the idea of getting conjurations up and running on this guy, I suppose I was a bit giddy from reading all the DeWz threads! Thanks for the pro-tips.
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Pandemonium Purger

Posts: 1298

Joined: Wednesday, 11th April 2012, 02:42

Location: Sydney, Australia

Post Saturday, 19th July 2014, 03:16

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

tasonir wrote:It's very unlikely that a melee dude wants to get pure damage conjurations like IMB/Battlesphere. You usually want spells that make you better at things you already do - smash faces. Blink, regeneration, haste, ozo's shield thingee, that sort of stuff.

If you just want to be able to ping things at range, ranged weapons usually work just as well for a lot less investment. Javelins are easy to toss with 0 throwing, but you could also put some points into a bow or crossbow (or sling if you are using a shield).

This, but I'd like to note that some unassuming looking spells have amazing utility - summon butterflies (for instant meatshields), animate skeleton (for an undead army of followers), apportation (for when you need to grab a rune or consumable off the floor NOW), portal projectile (turns your ranged weapon into a more accurate smite-targetting weapon, great if you have allies, you can figure past them)...

Zot Zealot

Posts: 1031

Joined: Friday, 26th April 2013, 19:52

Location: AZ, USA

Post Saturday, 19th July 2014, 06:21

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

Never. By definition, the second you teach a melee guy some spells he is no longer a melee guy, he is a disgrace. Also never because spells are for suckas.

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Arrhythmia, cerebovssquire, dck, duvessa
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Vestibule Violator

Posts: 1591

Joined: Saturday, 3rd August 2013, 18:59

Post Saturday, 19th July 2014, 06:36

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

WalkerBoh wrote:Never. By definition, the second you teach a melee guy some spells he is no longer a melee guy, he is a disgrace. Also never because spells are for suckas.


The words of a true pro.
To all new players: Ignore all strategy guides posted on the wiki, ask questions in the Advice forum, players with lots of posts normally have the best advice.

crawl.akrasiac.org:8080 <- take this link to play online or spectate.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 346

Joined: Thursday, 15th August 2013, 11:33

Post Saturday, 19th July 2014, 08:50

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

Alright, that guy died some horrible death, I got another one here that cleared Lair and Orc, and the biiiig question is, Longbow or XBow? I've found an Xbow manual, and my weapon choices are Nessos' +3 Longbow of Flaming, or the +1 hand crossbow of True Grit {flame, Dex+3 Int-3} Note that True Grit takes my Int down to 1. I've not sunk points into either ranged school yet.

Slime Squisher

Posts: 387

Joined: Monday, 15th August 2011, 16:31

Location: Frankfurt

Post Sunday, 20th July 2014, 10:41

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

(Not commenting on the char in the OP, but this was raised as a general question. And one that also interests me.)

So, nobody objected to the idea that conjurations are useless on a melee guy? Do better players never* build melee focussed characters with support conjurations? I'm thinking of spells like Freezing Cloud, (a nutrition-expensive) Bolt of Fire for things that need to die in two turns, or something like earth conjurations which skill-wise also allow for e. g. Stoneskin. I would have thought that these could be useful additions in the methods-of-killing portfolio of a dude that is otherwise comfortable with wacking things.

Do ranged weapons really get a comparable or better damager-per-aut output than conjurations for the same skill investment?

(* "Never" as in: "Never regularily, just with a very remote possibility in exceptional circumstances", of course.)
"... while we / Unburden'd crawl toward death." -- King Lear I,1

Ziggurat Zagger

Posts: 2996

Joined: Tuesday, 28th June 2011, 20:41

Location: Berlin

Post Sunday, 20th July 2014, 10:58

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

Ranged weapons are better than conjurations (they already were before ranged reform, which makes the gap between the two even bigger).

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duvessa

Cocytus Succeeder

Posts: 2229

Joined: Sunday, 18th December 2011, 13:31

Post Sunday, 20th July 2014, 11:11

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

Premise: all my magic dude are also tab dude by end of Lair or so on. So yes is possible to melee and cast magic at the same time.

Vice versa, almost all of my melee dude don't learn conjuration magic, because they start with a magic item (tab) which is irresistible and like to wear heavy clothes because there's never enough of AC.
To cast conjuration spell in plate armour well, you need high str, high int, high level in one or two skill (conjuration and often 1 elemental school), because you need low failure rate and high spellpower, not mentioning the usual skills a melee dude needs to have (weapon ,fightining, armour) and while DCSS is plenty of experience, it is still limited, so it' better to invest it in more productive manner.
In other words, there's not real benefit to learn "Bolt of Fire for things that need to die in two turns" because two turns of great mace of flaming in the face does the same thing, and it's much more sensible to spend the same amount of experience needed (actually, less) to learn haste, blink, phase shift and things like that.

That being said, there are race who can proficiently cast in heavy armour (especially DD, Gr, HO) and some magic school which are tailored to be casted in heavy armour, because most of their good spell are single school (Ne and Earth magic). If you'd like, you can find example of them in my profile.
Please note, what I've said isn't very related to melee guy who rely on EV: for instance mf (or, surprise, ogres!) have (silly) aptitudes which encouraged to fight in light/medium armour, and cast efficiently swing a glaive/bardiche by mid-game while blasting foes from afar with ice magic.

For the last question: yes, extremely. But I usually prefer evocation as ranged support for my melee guy, because with the training of a single school you get a lot of various extremely powerful toys to play with (as long as you can find them).
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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cerealjynx, Utis

Dungeon Master

Posts: 3160

Joined: Sunday, 5th August 2012, 14:52

Post Monday, 21st July 2014, 12:47

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

I agree with everyone who said not to conjurations on that character and everyone who said not to cross over into Battlesphere, but I have a slightly different take on when conjurations might be worth getting on a melee-focused character.

For conjurations to do good damage you need good int and a decent number of magic skill levels. Casting in heavy armour means you need the skills just to get the spell castable in the first place, so by the time you've got the spell castable you probably also have it at a decent power level -- if you have a decent int score. That said, conjurations by themselves mostly offer damage, and if you're melee-heavy, you already have that. Against the threats that really matter, conjurations mean exposing yourself to harm more or less as much as melee does, so they don't offer much advantage. The exception is where conjurations offer an attack pattern that melee doesn't (bolt, cloud, etc.). The cloud spells have the advantage of also having damage relatively unrelated to spellpower.

However, now that there are four bolt rods and one cloud rod and also stores which are likely to sell them, there's a good chance you can get the same effect for way less XP by going Evo.

Summonings are more often good for melee characters since they do something that works additively with melee instead of replacing melee, but there are a wide variety of other ways to get summons, including most gods.

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Mines Malingerer

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Post Friday, 15th August 2014, 20:54

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

Utis wrote:(Not commenting on the char in the OP, but this was raised as a general question. And one that also interests me.)

So, nobody objected to the idea that conjurations are useless on a melee guy? Do better players never* build melee focussed characters with support conjurations? I'm thinking of spells like Freezing Cloud, (a nutrition-expensive) Bolt of Fire for things that need to die in two turns, or something like earth conjurations which skill-wise also allow for e. g. Stoneskin. I would have thought that these could be useful additions in the methods-of-killing portfolio of a dude that is otherwise comfortable with wacking things.

Do ranged weapons really get a comparable or better damager-per-aut output than conjurations for the same skill investment?

(* "Never" as in: "Never regularily, just with a very remote possibility in exceptional circumstances", of course.)


The massive amount of training a melee guy in heavy armor would have to do to get a level six spell, made up of three schools nonetheless, like Freezing Cloud going is huge - Never mind the terrible aptitudes that so many of the common melee species have!

As far as utility spells for a big bad warrior go, I cannot recommend blink enough. Trapped in a corner, trapped in a hallway... boom, out of there, two magic points. Level 2 spell with one school, also, and you don't have to worry about spell power - it's a spell that either works or it doesn't, does the exact same thing whether you have 27 translocations or 5. All the better if you mind your line of sight and try to manipulate it to blink to the best possible spot for escape. Especially good if you use axes and just love to cleave - let them get around you, slash them to ribbons, and then blink out of their circle. Amazing spell.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 15th August 2014, 21:28

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

I generally do train some conjurations on a fair amount of my melee guys, but that's because my somewhat non-standard characters tend to support magical support. I melee with unarmed a lot, which benefits greatly from transmutations. If I'm going statue form, then I have 10-15 levels of earth, perhaps more, so picking up stone arrow/iron shot is pretty much free.

I tend to play Chei, who gives +15 int, which is a huge boost to also getting conjurations. The Str/Dex would also support ranged weapons, of course.

Really the only important thing is to not branch out too early on. You need to get good enough at one thing first, and then you can something else afterwards.

Edit: example build from my last win: http://dobrazupa.org/morgue/tasonir/mor ... 105635.txt I only cast iron shot 14 times, but hey, I had it because I had already invested in statue form, so why not. Cast shatter 19 times :)

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Post Saturday, 16th August 2014, 13:04

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

Get some spellcasting abilities after you are comfortable killing people with your weapon. Generally that means decent physical defensive abilities and a strong offense. Once you get there, you will naturally start thinking hmmmm, more points where? Thats a good time to get some utility spells online, like swiftness, repel missiles, apportation, regen, what have you.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Sunday, 17th August 2014, 04:54

Re: When do I teach a melee guy some magic?

learn a few buffs/utility spells after lair imo
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