Rod of Shadows question


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Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 03:04

Rod of Shadows question

LearnDB has this to say about it: "Creates shadow creatures from a D level based on your evocations skill. Really bad with low evoc."

So what does this mean? If I have Evoc 20, it is calling up stuff from Depth 5?

Slime Squisher

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 04:24

Re: Rod of Shadows question

I was just using it in the Abyss with 27 Evo, it was pulling up ettins and phantasmal warriors

Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 17:06

Re: Rod of Shadows question

Went ahead and did some wizmode testing.

Evoc 10 got: hydra, cyclops, orc packs, ugly things, hounds, ants
Evoc 15 got: the same, fewer junk, hill giants, elf priest, ogre packs
Evoc 20 got: centaur warrior (singular), yaktaur packs, stone giant, simulacra, fire crab
Evoc 21 got: dragon, orc pack with high priest, deep troll packs, redback packs
Evoc 25 got: sphinx, dragons, giants, yaktaur packs, shapeshifters, deep troll packs
Evoc 27 got: tengu reavers, vampire knights, yaktaurs packs, giants of various types, dragons

Never got drac packs or OOFs. Maybe I didn't test enough (only cast about 10 times at each level). Or maybe it just can't do it.

So it looks like the rod is fine for call up meatshields at any evoc (even a kobold can block for 1 turn). If you want it to actually help fight, 10-15 will do it. If you want it to be a major form of offense, looks like you'll want 20+.
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Shoals Surfer

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 17:47

Re: Rod of Shadows question

Blink wrote:Went ahead and did some wizmode testing.

Evoc 10 got: hydra, cyclops, orc packs, ugly things, hounds, ants
Evoc 15 got: the same, fewer junk, hill giants, elf priest, ogre packs
Evoc 20 got: centaur warrior (singular), yaktaur packs, stone giant, simulacra, fire crab
Evoc 21 got: dragon, orc pack with high priest, deep troll packs, redback packs
Evoc 25 got: sphinx, dragons, giants, yaktaur packs, shapeshifters, deep troll packs
Evoc 27 got: tengu reavers, vampire knights, yaktaurs packs, giants of various types, dragons

Never got drac packs or OOFs. Maybe I didn't test enough (only cast about 10 times at each level). Or maybe it just can't do it.

So it looks like the rod is fine for call up meatshields at any evoc (even a kobold can block for 1 turn). If you want it to actually help fight, 10-15 will do it. If you want it to be a major form of offense, looks like you'll want 20+.

IIRC, it also depends on where you use it, so in Zot at high evo, you should get drac packs and OOFs.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 18:06

Re: Rod of Shadows question

It seems to me that the rod works differently than the spell, which depends on location too. At least my current DDAs used it in Spider and got a troll, ogre, ice dragon, stone giant, ugly things etc. (Evo about 14 - 15.) No spiders. With the spell I'd expected to get usual Spider inhabitants.
DCSS: 97:...MfCj}SpNeBaEEGrFE{HaAKTrCK}DsFESpHu{FoArNaBe}
FeEE{HOIEMiAE}GrGlHuWrGnWrNaAKBaFi{MiDeMfDe}{DrAKTrAMGhEnGnWz}
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 18:30

Re: Rod of Shadows question

nilsbloodaxe wrote:IIRC, it also depends on where you use it, so in Zot at high evo, you should get drac packs and OOFs.


I did test in Slime, Tomb and Zot. The best I could get were high end Depth critters. The branch didn't seem to have any impact at all on what showed up.

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nilsbloodaxe

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 18:37

Re: Rod of Shadows question

It always draws from the Dungeon monster list (which still extends down to 27 for out-of-depth purposes). Depths monsters are a similar but separate list to Dungeon oods, including things like spriggans and liches and titans which you can't get from the rod of shadows.

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Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 18:41

Re: Rod of Shadows question

MarvinPA wrote:It always draws from the Dungeon monster list (which still extends down to 27 for out-of-depth purposes). Depths monsters are a similar but separate list to Dungeon oods, including things like spriggans and liches and titans which you can't get from the rod of shadows.
You mean from the spell?

Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 18:50

Re: Rod of Shadows question

rockygargoyle wrote:
MarvinPA wrote:It always draws from the Dungeon monster list (which still extends down to 27 for out-of-depth purposes). Depths monsters are a similar but separate list to Dungeon oods, including things like spriggans and liches and titans which you can't get from the rod of shadows.
You mean from the spell?


The spell Shadow Creatures does not have a spell power component. It spawns some random creatures (probably with some exclusions or exceptions) from whatever would normally spawn on the level and branch where you cast the spell.

Rod of shadows, if I'm reading MarvinPA correctly, will always draw from the monster list for the main Dungeon (so stuff that only spawns in Slime and special vaults, like acid blobs, won't be generated by it). It sounds like, for certain purposes of monster generation, in the code there are still 27 virtual levels of the dungeon (which is how many there used to be, whereas there are only 15 now), and the rod of shadows will draw from that list. The "dungeon level" from which rod of shadows will summon creatures will scale up with evocations skill. Average monster strength also increases with the "dungeon level."

So you won't ever get stuff like acid blobs from the rod of shadows. However, if you have really high evocations skill, you can get stuff like dragons and <foo> giants and deep troll packs, regardless of what level you happen to be on when you evoke the rod.

Swamp Slogger

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Post Tuesday, 29th July 2014, 18:58

Re: Rod of Shadows question

Thanks, MarvinPA. It's nice when a dev provides insight into how things work.

I'll just work my Evoc up to the high teens and call it good.

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