Best Combination

[snow]

What do you think is the strongest combination?

I'm going to have to say demigod wizards. I know they require a bit of scumming because they level slowly but beyond that you can build them into heavily armored casters and end up with a literally invincible character that can kill anything in a few shots. Deep elf wizards are a close second... though more fragile they can use a god. Demigods are better still because they're strong enough to not need a god.

[danr]

Well, since I just got my first win with it, I'd say Deep Dwarf Necromancer of Makhleb, at least for a three-runer. Halfling Hunter used to be my fave but I just noticed they don't start with a buckler anymore (perhaps because of my raving here about how good they are / were )

[snow]

In general I guess. You have a point though... different combinations do better at different things.

[danr]

My interest would be in what combos are best at making it to the middle game. Because if you can survive the early game, it's the stuff you find that makes just as big or bigger difference to how powerful you are.

[danr]

What do you mean by "streakable"? Able to pull off repeat wins? Wouldn't that be the same as "easy"?

[mageykun]

I think the distinction between "streakalbe" and "easy" is that a lot of easy combos are still susceptible to accidental D:1 splatting.

For instance, I think the SpBe is pretty great, and reasonably easy to boot too. But you will get splatted in the first few floors if a hobo gets a luck critical, or if you get unlucky before your evasion takes off.

[Jenx]

Berserkers. Just...berserkers. Those guys work with any species, really.

[lucy_ferre]

I don't think I've ever lost with either a DDNe or SpEn once I got the hang of them. CeBe is also easy, but I find it boring. SETm is my favorite for 15-rune wins.

[Kate]

<MarvinPA> !lg . s=char / ktyp=winning
<Sequell> 59/1854 games for MarvinPA: 1/1x GhVM [100.00%], 1/1x SEIE [100.00%], 1/1x HEFE [100.00%], 1/1x HaRe [100.00%], 1/1x OgVM [100.00%], 1/1x SpAK [100.00%], 1/1x FeSu [100.00%]

Apparently those are the best combos in the game. OgVM supremacy.

[ghend]

MDFi of okawaru is pretty easy and streakable (and pretty dull).

[Sometimes]

I'm surprised by the amount of centaur love I'm seeing here and there. What am I missing? CeBe seems like a good vector for Trog's eventual deluge of ammo gifts, but that's surely not that big a deal? They're reasonably fast? Lots of health? What's the draw?

[Tiber]

I'm surprised by the amount of centaur love I'm seeing here and there. What am I missing? CeBe seems like a good vector for Trog's eventual deluge of ammo gifts, but that's surely not that big a deal? They're reasonably fast? Lots of health? What's the draw?

Spriggans are considered one of the easiest combos right? Centaurs are slightly less fast, but can still outrun most everything, and have 50 more hp at XL27. Spriggans have better dodging, but centaurs can fill every armor slot, and have the large race shield advantage. Sure, they have crappy aptitudes, but that's nothing but an inconvenience. Hunger is annoying with them, but gourmand makes that much nicer, and permafood is plentiful. I have yet to starve to death.

[Sometimes]

I think I was overestimating the impact of the lousy aptitudes. I've played a fair few demonspawn, should really know better... think I'll give horsey a shot.

[joellercoaster]

I'm going to agree with the people upthread who have said DDne of Makhleb. I started one partly as a ghostbuster and partly because I had had a long frustrating game with a weaker combo get the better of me, and I just wanted to hit things with an axe for a bit... I'm amazed at how well it all fits together. The combination of God, role and race is so low-maintenance

[mrbobbyg]

I think Crusader is a pretty easy class in general.

I'm not the best player, and have never ascended, but I have gotten many runes and been to Zot several times. All with Crusaders. Naga Crusaders become MONSTER TANKS. Kobold Crusaders can bezerk as much as they like, and Merfolk Crusaders are just crazily in line with aptitudes.

[OneTrueFelid]

Easy: Halfing/Kobold Berserker, Deep Dwarf Necromancer [Makhleb], Spriggan Enchanter [0.7> Okawaru], Troll Gladiator [0.8<, Okawaru].

Streakability: Centaur Healer [0.7>, -> Okawaru], Deep Dwarf Necromancer [Makhleb], Deep Dwarf Chaos Knight [0.7>, Makhleb].

"Strongest": Depends on what you want. If you mean "when this character reaches uber-status, what is the uberest of all uber characters to ever be uber???" then probably an Uber-Demonspawn who has nuts luck with racial mutations or an Uber-Naga. If you mean "overall, taking most things into consideration, what provides the ideal mix of ease and strength to be the 'strongest' combination" then it's probably Deep Dwarf Necromancer [Makhleb].

[golan2072]

In 0.8+, I'd say that a Mountain Dwarf Berserker is an excellent combination, Heavy Armour+Axe+Shield+Berserk=WIN!

[Ultis]

You all seem to like somewhat weird combinations.

As far as I can tell, all-rune late-game survival hinges on having a lot of HP to survive torment/smite/hellfire combos which ignore AC, as well as Necromutation for torment resistance, and the ability to cast Haste and Controlled Blink to get away asap.
Instant saves like Nemelex's Tomb, Lugonu's Banishment and Revivification also matter, and in Ziggurats, it matters to be able to clear the place before the place clears you.
Ranged attacks further help being less in harm's way.

Hence, an high HP race (such as a Naga) played as a necromutating fire/ice stormer or tornadist still seems best.

[Jeremiah]

Going by the ongoing tournament statistics, berserker is the most common background for game winners by a large margin. The species with the most winners is roughly even between kobold and spriggan.

The most common species/background combinations for winners are KoBe, closely followed by SpEn.

I would assume that most of these winners are 3-5 rune games that did not go to the extended endgame, however.

[galehar]

The new HP formula nerf those combos.

[XuaXua]

I'm going to agree with the people upthread who have said DDne of Makhleb. I started one partly as a ghostbuster and partly because I had had a long frustrating game with a weaker combo get the better of me, and I just wanted to hit things with an axe for a bit... I'm amazed at how well it all fits together. The combination of God, role and race is so low-maintenance

I'm doing well so far, but I'm encountering problems with demons.

[XuaXua]

You can get 4 runes without ever fighting any demons more powerful than imps.

D:15 ice cave was calling me. I left my potions of healing in there after the ice fiends and ice demons chased me out and FOLLOWED ME INTO D:15.

Used up several scrolls of teleportation, etc. Eventually took them down one at a time. Gotta get fireball working more reliably.

[Jeremiah]

The new HP formula nerf those combos.

Haven't played the trunk version with the new formula, but from what I can gather from the tables, it is something of a nerf to fighters of almost any race. The low-HP races are hit hardest, but the human fighter has 22 less HP at XL27 under the frail/robust system, and even the naga has 2 HP less. The only races that appear to benefit are trolls (and possibly ogres.)

Of course the tables aren't necessarily a good representation of any actual character; I'm guessing most actual fighters will be closer to the 'hybrid 2' for most of their careers because it is rare for fighting to be equal to XL, but presumably they are accurate enough to make some deductions from.

[galehar]

Exactly, hybrid 2 is a more realistic case than pure fighter (but still simplistic). The later is there to show an extreme case. Theoretical maximum hp is reduced for almost everyone, but don't forget that base hp is increased. You don't have to pump fighting like crazy just to survive.