Best use of Summon Forest?

[milo]

I'm using the spell for the first time with an XL20's ranged character. Training Summoning and Translocation anyway, and I always like to try new spells, especially when they have a potentially interesting tactical mechanic.

It's been useful a couple times, (and it's great fun to cast; I'm a fan) but now that I'm moving through V and U et al the dryad doesn't stay alive long enough to really affect the situation, and once the dryad's gone, the show's over, as far as I can tell.

The times when it has been useful this game: when a single tough monster/unique, or a small pack is on the edge of LOS, it gives the dryad enough time to get things rolling, and to get itself out of the way of the incoming dudes.

Now though, packs of deep trolls or the like rip through every animate thing in the meadow within a few turns, and I'm left fighting in a very nice, but very useless* woodland setting. Am I missing something?


As I say, I like the spell, and the fact that it has its costs/considerations: a fair bit of XP in two skills; only able to cast in open areas; takes a couple turns for the forest and the dryad to manifest; takes time for the vines to creep and constrict etc. But I must admit I was expecting a bit more bang, so I'd like to get the Tavern's opinion on the spell in general, and any ways to squeeze the last drop of efficacy from it.
Or is casting it in good time, and not expecting great things from it in the late game, all there really is to it?

I currently have it at 1% and *****.....; how much difference does spell power make? Does it simply increase the dryad's HP, or give any other added effects?



*Is there some secret tech to using Summon Forest to break into vaults?

[Lasty]

I tried it relatively recently on a human summoner, and I found that it was killing the heck out of most things in Swamp, but I died before being able to try it later in the dungeon. It seemed to do an excellent job of not just large amounts of damage, but also of pulling enemies away from you. It's possible that it works less well against larger monsters, but it seemed pretty decent against hydrae and swamp dragons.

[milo]

I'll admit I had the V5 entrance party in the back of my mind when I decided to get it, but I don't see that being anything other than a wasted turn as things stand.

If you were taking care of hydrae on the reg, at an earlier stage of the game than I'm at, I might just be lacking in spell power. I have much higher Trans than Summ. ~17 and 7, respectively.

[Psiweapon]

Pump summoning and tell us if it fares better

[Sar]

If you want a level 5 Summoning spell that is obscenely useful through the whole game, you should learn Shadow Creatures.

[archaeo]

The new summons (not so new now, but) make it impossible to flood the level with just one spell, but keep a repertoire. That dryad will really appreciate having some Mana Viper or Shadow Creature meat shields.

But yeah, you could also easily keep Summon Forest throughout the early game and then switch to Shadow Creatures around Vaults or Depths, when the spell starts to get extremely good.

[milo]

I have Shadow Creatures, and I'll probably get it (soon in fact), but as mentioned in the OP, I'm a Hunter primarily and just wanted to try a new spell, so I didn't really think to supply backup.

Do people use it to killdudes, or to tangledudes? I assumed the primary effect was to distract and slow...

[archaeo]

Do people use it to killdudes, or to tangledudes? I assumed the primary effect was to distract and slow...

Honestly milo, I think few enough people have opted to use it that the "optimal" Summon Forest strategy is still a little funky. I think it's definitely more useful when you're using it to slow down things for your other summons, rather than just you yourself. Personally, I think unless you're with Fedhas and using mushroom bros, hunters are probably better off sticking to solo play.

[milo]

Well, I have a single ?amnesia in the game. This might be a good application.

[and into]

You can also use books to forget a spell contained in the book so used, although this destroys the book so plan accordingly. (r)ead the book, select the letter of a spell you have memorized from that book, and type capital F, say yes to the prompt. Destroys book and removes the spell from your memory.

Don't do that while worshiping Sif, though (but with Sif you'll have no need thanks to her ability so w/e).

[njvack]

I know I'm necroing the hell out of this thread, but I found Summon Forest early in my current game. Solo, it's underwhelming unless you tank for the Dryad; however, dropping a load of butterflies in there helps a lot (as in, butterflies & a single cast of forest took out the warlord in my Orc:2; I added mana vipers for Rupert). Having basically anything to slow down monsters and let the vines do their thing helps a ton.

The corollary to this is that SF doesn't seem to be very good at crowd control; I'd expect a deep troll pack to chew through it pretty good. Maybe higher power and tougher buddies would let it keep scaling, though. Seems like it'd pair well with XXX.

[ebering]

To join in the necro. I'm using it on a HuWz^Fedhas in the current tournament. I found the Fen Folio and a Book of Frost so I have ice beasts also.

Ice beasts synergize very well with summon forest: sometimes it places water, which your average baddy can't cross but your ice beasts can. The dryad stays over with you and sends in some vines and then everything is dead. Fedhas shrooms and meph cloud also take advantage of this feature, though take care not to confuse your dryad!

I haven't yet had the xp to get Rain working well, but I suspect this will amplify the terrain advantage. Summon hydra also seems to fit into this combo since hydras swim fast, allowing the summoned hydras to get where they're going before they expire, but this too is theory crafting. I'll (hopefully) have a real answer soon.

Finally, a word on tactical use. Tanking for the dryad isn't the only option: you can pull for the dryad as well. Running through an awakened forest with a pack of enemies behind you is a good way to kill them.

[ebering]

Rain and summon hydra both collaborate well with Summon Forest. Summon Hydra and Rain alone is a power combo, with the forest water is even better because it comes with a dryad.

[pumpyscump]

Rain and summon hydra both collaborate well with Summon Forest. Summon Hydra and Rain alone is a power combo, with the forest water is even better because it comes with a dryad.

Do hydras attack faster in water too, or is it just movement speed?

[ebering]

Rain and summon hydra both collaborate well with Summon Forest. Summon Hydra and Rain alone is a power combo, with the forest water is even better because it comes with a dryad.

Do hydras attack faster in water too, or is it just movement speed?

Just move faster, but that's still nice since their life is short and every aut counts.

[crate]

The main reason that hydra + water is good is that shallow water is actually an enormous debuff to most enemies (but not hydras). Hydra + water isn't really a bigger combo than, like, melee + water ... but rain is actually super good and way underused so....