What's a good transmuter race?


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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 15:03

What's a good transmuter race?

Aptitude for Merkfolk is +3, aptitude for Spriggans is +3.

Transmuting for combat for either race seems sub-optimal based on the advantages from their other attributes.

Yes / No / Crazy / Abstain?
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Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 15:14

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Mf is probably the best race, why do you say that? The fact they have broken apt with polearm doesn't mean they can do else too well.

Anyway, also Dr have easy time as Tm. Og have kinda hard start but they are somewhat good too (ogre in dragon form is quite fun).
Also Fe is good, and probably tm is one of the best start for Naga (and they're quite a decent race as tm).
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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 15:16

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

My take on transmuter is that the most important aptitudes are UC, Dodging, HP and Fighting, since those will be where most of your experience goes, so if you're trying to find the best TM species I'd focus on those aptitudes instead. On the other hand a strong Tmut/Poison aptitude gets Spider Form online faster, and that's a significant milestone, but that usually doesn't take very long to get to a reasonable level anyway.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 15:16

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

If by "sub-optimal based on the advantages from their other attributes" you mean that you have Polearms +4, but UC +1 as Mf (and similar cases for other skills as Sp), UC + Tm book forms, especially Blade Hands, outclasses weapon damage despite better weapon attributues. If you are worried about movespeed as SpTm, Blade Hands doesn't affect it. They are both good Tm species, Sp more because they are generally a great species and movespeed helps Tm just as much as any other race, not because they are uniquely well-suited to the background.

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 15:56

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Just started up a MfTm based on your post. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 15:56

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Lasty wrote:My take on transmuter is that the most important aptitudes are UC, Dodging, HP and Fighting


This was what I was hopping someone would say, and what I deliberately didn't put in the OP.

I always feel that the Polearm aptitude outclasses the unarmed combat aptitude due to the inherent reaching brand.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 15:57

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

PostmodernBrony wrote:Just started up a MfTm based on your post. I'll let you know how it goes.


I actually started a SpTm before I posted this thread... :-)
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 16:07

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Ds is somewhat weak early game but can become powerful late game because of mutations.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 16:13

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

I always feel that the Polearm aptitude outclasses the unarmed combat aptitude due to the inherent reaching brand.


Reaching isn't much more than a single hit more vs most monsters, reduced for times when you are fighting more than one monster and they surround you/line up or stand in a corridor, because then you won't get an extra hit against every monster.
There are some cases where it does more, with summons, vs slow melee monsters (which are harmless anyway), with fast movement speed or cases where you attack past a monster, but this doesn't apply to most fights.
Looking at reaching as a damage bonus, then, it isn't enough to compensate for how higher the damage of forms + UC is (especially with Blade Hands), and Tm book guarantees you a venom branded attack and speed.

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 16:17

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Anti-magic bardiche is awesome though, it makes all casters trivial if there is a corner on the level.

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 16:20

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Like any other AM big weapon when there's a corner
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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 16:20

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

In case you (OP) didn't know then bladehands/dragon form are basically the most powerful melee weapons in the game.

+4 Polearms doesn't hold a handle to that, and with Mf's mad dodging/transmutations apt and good unarmed polearms start looking a bit dubious don't they.
and unlike an antimagic bardiche, bladehands is in a starter book and can accomplish the same through a couple of hits' worth of huge damage
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Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 17:27

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

The main disadvantage of SpTm is the -2 aptitude in the most important skill (unarmed combat). Another problem is the -30% HP. This makes me a bit suspicious about the combo, but spriggans are so strong that it's probably not bad.

I have played and won a MfTm and it was super good. (UC apt is +1).

dck

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 17:29

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Mf is great for Tm yeah.
That said if you had a gun to your head and had to win the next Mf game, choosing between polearms and tmuts for offense should be pretty simple. Mf can and will swing the first halberd they see at approximately the speed of light the moment they find it and it only gets sillier when glaives show up; sure blade hands is great and sure DF destroys anything regardless of your UC, but this power comes into play late enough it doesn't give the kind of benefit being able to upgrade to the biggest polearm available the moment you find it gives you.
(for argument's sake, this is ignoring the fact Tm is a very rocky start and all starts that would allow you to start with polearms would be directly superior in survivability)

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 18:40

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

drtm is possibly better than mftm
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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 18:58

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

SE.
MuCK;
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 19:09

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

TehDruid wrote:SE.


I already made that joke today.
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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 20:30

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

If I had to pick just one, I'd probably go merfolk. But Dr, Na, Ds, Gr are all great choices. Sp is great, but personally I hate the -30% hp, even with the incredible move speed. That's mostly just my preference, though. Nagas with blade hands are just so powerful if you can deal with the move speed :)

Barkeep

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 20:44

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Dr, Mf, Tr, Dg, Ds all make for fun Tm. Vine Stalker Tm is pretty fun, can be a bit challenging though with your low HP. Naga if the slow move speed doesn't bother you too much.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Wednesday, 11th June 2014, 20:52

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Draconians are my favorite. They don't need to worry about their armour impeding their spellcasting or UC abilities, they naturally get an extra 13 AC over the course of a game, and their breath weapon can be an extra advantage that is icing on the cake. Also, draconians keep their extra AC while in dragon form, so they aren't saddled with the drawbacks of suddenly being huge and having their AC reduced to a meager 10 that everybody else gets.

Spider Stomper

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Post Thursday, 12th June 2014, 11:20

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Dr because you become a dragon
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Post Thursday, 12th June 2014, 11:21

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

The thing about Dr -> Draconian is that the quoted advantage (Dragon Form becomes better) only starts to matter well after the game is 'beaten'. I guess it depends on what you're optimizing for, though (win rate or strength of final character)

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Post Thursday, 12th June 2014, 11:31

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Patashu wrote:The thing about Dr -> Draconian is that the quoted advantage (Dragon Form becomes better) only starts to matter well after the game is 'beaten'. I guess it depends on what you're optimizing for, though (win rate or strength of final character)

oh I thought this was CYC

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Post Thursday, 12th June 2014, 22:27

Re: What's a good transmuter race?

Patashu wrote:The thing about Dr -> Draconian is that the quoted advantage (Dragon Form becomes better) only starts to matter well after the game is 'beaten'. I guess it depends on what you're optimizing for, though (win rate or strength of final character)


To be fair, that's only one of their several advantages. High base hp, auxiliary tail slap to help with early damage, innate AC without an Encumbrance rating. and your adult form bonuses. (usually a breath weapon and some resistance)

Improved dragon form is flashy, but the other bonuses are probably more important for the average transmuter.

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