Min level to fight in the abyss

[sage1234]

Newbie here, this is my highest level character. Things were getting tough, then bam into the abyss I go. I made the mistake of fighting and not running. What is the minimum level I should have been to stick it out in the abyss. I should have paused the game and asked for advice. Thanks for the help.

  Code:

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.1-19-g9964f44 (webtiles) character file.

21497 sage1234 the Warrior (level 12, -5/125 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Berserker on June 5, 2014.
             Was a High Priest of Trog.
             Killed from afar by a raiju (21 damage)
             ... with a living lightning
             ... on Level 1 of the Abyss on June 6, 2014.
             The game lasted 02:47:58 (14265 turns).

sage1234 the Warrior (Minotaur Berserker)          Turns: 14265, Time: 02:47:58

HP  -5/125       AC 23     Str 25      XL: 12   Next: 48%
MP   0/1         EV  2     Int  4      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 709         SH 25     Dex 12      Spells:  0 memorised, 11 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     l - +6,+3 morningstar (antimagic)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     Z - +0 plate armour
rNeg   . . .     Conserve .     E - +0 large shield
rPois  .         rCorr    +     (helmet restricted)
rElec  .         rRot     .     H - +0 cloak
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     g - +1 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     k - +2 pair of boots
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     Q - amulet of resist corrosion
MR     .....                    M - ring "Sanu Hia" {Hunger- +Blink rC++ Acc+2 Stlth--, unknown}
                                p - ring of fire

@: non-regenerating, invisible, mildly diseased, not resistant to hostile
enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion,
Evoke Blink


You were on level 1 of the Abyss.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was extremely pleased with you.
You were not hungry.

You visited 2 branches of the dungeon, and saw 14 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.

You collected 709 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 e - the +7,+8 sling "Fries" {venom, rElec MR+}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It poisons the ammo it fires.
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 l - a +6,+3 anti-magic morningstar (weapon)
Missiles
 a - 8 tomahawks
 d - 21 poisoned needles
 i - 134 stones
 m - 12 darts (quivered)
 u - 9 arrows of frost
 y - 12 bolts of frost
 A - 9 arrows
 D - 6 needles of sleeping
 F - 4 needles of slowing
 K - 8 darts of frost
 N - 4 steel javelins
 P - a throwing net
Armour
 g - a +1 pair of gloves (worn)
 k - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 t - a +0 pair of boots
 E - a +0 large shield (worn)
 H - a +0 cloak (worn)
 Z - a +0 plate armour (worn)
Magical devices
 b - a wand of frost (16)
 h - a wand of frost (5)
 C - a wand of random effects (19)
 Y - a wand of paralysis (11)
Comestibles
 c - 9 bread rations
 j - 3 apples
 S - 3 royal jellies
 V - 11 sultanas
Scrolls
 n - a scroll of recharging
 q - 7 scrolls of remove curse
 w - a scroll of identify
 z - 3 scrolls of fog
 B - a scroll of vulnerability
 X - a scroll of enchant weapon I
Jewellery
 p - a ring of fire (left hand)
 J - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 M - the ring "Sanu Hia" (right hand) {Hunger- +Blink rC++ Acc+2 Stlth--, unknown}
   (You took it off an orc wizard on level 13 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of sustenance]
   It affects your accuracy with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+2).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It lets you blink.
   It makes you much less stealthy.
 O - a +2 ring of intelligence
 Q - an amulet of resist corrosion (around neck)
Potions
 f - a potion of poison
 o - a potion of magic
 r - a potion of lignification
 s - a potion of brilliance
 v - 5 potions of curing
 G - a potion of resistance
 I - a potion of porridge
 L - 3 potions of cure mutation
 R - 4 potions of restore abilities


   Skills:
 * Level 17.0 Fighting
 + Level 11.8 Maces & Flails
 - Level 4.0 Slings
 + Level 12.4 Armour
 - Level 2.1 Dodging


You had 11 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (13/15)            Temple (0/1) D:5             Orc (1/4) D:9
   Lair (0/8) D:9         
Vaults: D:13-14     

Altars:
Cheibriados
Nemelex Xobeh
Trog
Vehumet
The Shining One

Shops:
D:4 (   D:10 }

Portals:
Bailey: Orc:1


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.


Message History

Use which ability? (? or * to list)
The power of the Abyss keeps you in your place!
You feel slightly more hungry.
The raiju bursts into living lightning!
The living lightning hits the raiju. The raiju completely resists.
The living lightning hits you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The living lightning misses the raiju. The raiju blinks!
You block the raiju's attack. x2
The raiju bites you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The raiju shocks you!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The raiju bites you but does no damage.
Drink which item? (? for menu, Esc to quit)
You fade into invisibility!
The raiju bursts into living lightning!
The living lightning hits the raiju. The raiju completely resists.
The living lightning hits you!
You die...

[duvessa]

28

[and into]

Hey sage1234,

You should put your character dump info in code tags. (I edited your post so it now has the proper formatting, but just for future reference.) You can do this easily by highlighting the text of the character dump, then clicking the Code button above the text box you type your posts in.

As for your question:

For nearly all characters you will want to limit the amount of time you are in the abyss, unless you are trying to get the abyssal rune, in which case you make your way to Abyss:Level 3 and then get out as quickly as you can once you find the rune.

You probably shouldn't go for the abyssal rune until pretty late, probably at least level 20. Folks worshiping Lugonu can go for the abyssal rune much more safely, and thus earlier, because you have the ability to leave the abyss whenever you want for a piety cost. However, even for Lugonu worshipers, level 12 would be way too low level to be staying in the abyss for any long stretch of time.

Also, even if you are high level, you'll spend most of your time in the abyss moving (trying to find the rune or an exit/portal deeper into abyss), rather than fighting. Generally speaking, only stuff that is faster than you, or which can cause other problems to you if you don't take them out fast, are worth pausing to fight in the abyss.

[Moose]

I've wondered lately about exploration strategy... I notice that autoexplore works, but there's map rot too. If you use solely autoexplore in the Abyss, will it do much backtracking, or will it efficiently find new territory?

[archaeo]

Don't autoexplore. Try to go in a single direction, ideally in a diagonal; your goal is to avoid backtracking while uncovering as many squares as possible as quickly as possible.

I wonder how you could make autoexplore a non-sucky way of exploring the abyss; it'd be a real tedium saver.

[Patashu]

The abyss never becomes 'safe'. You're perfectly capable of playing badly and dying for it at any xl. Even for xl27 characters in recent Crawl (which I think is 0.13 to current trunk) there are 130 splats:

  Code:

<Patashu_> !lg * recent place=abyss xl=27 s=ikiller
<Sequell> 130 games for * (recent place=abyss xl=27): 22x a starcursed mass, 12x a lich, 8x, 6x a smoke demon, 6x the fury of Okawaru, 5x a tentacled starspawn, 5x an ancient lich, 4x a large abomination, 3x a thrashing horror, 3x a blizzard demon, 3x a Hell Sentinel, 3x a bone dragon, 3x a spriggan defender, 3x a hellion, 3x a spatial maelstrom, 2x a wretched star, 2x an Executioner, 2x an ettin, 2x the
<Sequell> fury of Makhleb, 2x a Balrug, 2x a ynoxinul, 2x a reaper, 2x a Lorocyproca, a thorn hunter, a stone giant, a Green Death, a spectral titan, a deep troll earth mage, a rakshasa, a shadow wraith, attached to a dryad, the player character, a Brimstone Fiend, a deep elf demonologist, the rage of Trog, Jorgrun, a raiju, a Zot trap, an ironheart preserver, an apocalypse crab, an ophan, a mad acolyte of
<Sequell> Lugonu, a naga warrior, a worldbinder, a hellephant, a revenant, a purple draconian, an ancient bear

That said, the more carefully you play, the better your survival chances become. That means avoiding stuff you'd rather not fight by walking directly away from it every step, blowing consumables early not when you're at 50% or less HP, etc. All the usual 'don't get over your head' stuff.

[KoboldLord]

Note that even if you can survive just fine in the Abyss, fighting there is still a complete waste of time. The loot and xp is worse than any area of comparable difficulty in the game, but there's no way to manage your exploration to minimize risk that will be as successful as the best methods are in literally every other branch. If you absolutely must grind for maxed-out skills or something stupid like that, Pan is much safer and much more lucrative.

The only reason to stand and fight in the Abyss is if you see something you want, like the Rune vault or an exit.

[sage1234]

Thank you for all of the advice, if I find myself in the Abyss again I will run. As far as I can tell with this game is you have to play many games before you win.

I will do the code thing in the future. Back into the dungeon.

[Mulzaro]

Abyss is usually quite doable for XL 20+ characters. Rmut is very important. I had a promising OgBe that just started doing extended game from Abyss (XL 25). Abyss is usually quite easy with good gear and high enough XL, but it's still possible to die. My character got int drained to brainless status by 3 neqos in an open area and because of that, I got paralyzed. After that, mightied thrashing horrors etc. zerged me. I could have probably survived from that if I didn't waste couple of turns tabbing away, but it was a nice lesson nevertheless

[4Hooves2Appendages]

XL18+ has a decent chance of killing stuff in the Abyss I'd say, or at least getting out alive. Not all enemies are very dangerous. Minor Abominations are mostly harmless for example. At XL12, I would definitely avoid fighting as much as possible. Going diagonal until you find a portal is your best bet. On Abyss:1 it can take a pretty long time sometimes, but I can't really recommend going lower at your level.The monster spawn rate increases appreciably on lower floors.

There are actually a few good reasons to hang around in the Abyss on purpose (not at XL12 of course). It gives a lot of Zin piety and is a lot safer than Pan. Lots of potions and scrolls spawn on the ground, so if you're out of identify, remove curse or curing, a trip to the Abyss can help. Also, I actually like the Abyss, ehem.

[cerebovssquire]

There are actually a few good reasons to hang around in the Abyss on purpose (not at XL12 of course). It gives a lot of Zin piety and is a lot safer than Pan. Lots of potions and scrolls spawn on the ground, so if you're out of identify, remove curse or curing, a trip to the Abyss can help. Also, I actually like the Abyss, ehem.

Abyss can be safer than Pan for many characters but Pan is more predictable outside of where you initially land, and you can fight in corridors more consitently. cTele being possible in Pan is also a big factor. I wouldn't say there is a big difference in difficulty in general and on some characters I find Pan easier. Zin piety is abundant everywhere in extended (and you can usually make a donation anyway, at that point of the game).

[lucy_ferre]

There are a bunch of demonspawns in Pan now, so getting Zin piety is easy. And Pan is less boring than the abyss.