How do I planted TrEE?


Ask fellow adventurers how to stay alive in the deep, dark, dangerous dungeon below, or share your own accumulated wisdom.

Mines Malingerer

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Post Monday, 26th May 2014, 11:33

How do I planted TrEE?

I tend to like Trolls when played as the gribbly bruisers they were made to be, I tend to like Earth Elementalists as... slightly less squishy mages with Passwall and interesting ways of blowing things up. Somehow making a Troll Earth Elementalist, despite Earth Magic being their second least terrible skill, never quite worked out for me.

Far as I can tell, the only real reason to go that direction is Stoneskin, due to it being another precious source of AC at a lower cost than very high levels of Armour skill. Your INT is never going to be high enough as a troll to even get respectable Stone Arrows, and LRD is almost a nonstarter before you even contemplate Petrify.

Is there something I'm missing?

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 26th May 2014, 11:38

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

Well, you can go Chei.

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vengefulcarrot

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Post Monday, 26th May 2014, 12:36

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

The one time I got a troll casting statue form in lair, I found out that you still cut off hydra heads. That's when I stopped playing TrEE.
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Snake Sneak

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Post Monday, 26th May 2014, 13:42

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

jejorda2 wrote:The one time I got a troll casting statue form in lair, I found out that you still cut off hydra heads. That's when I stopped playing TrEE.


Except it doesnt matter when you have a thousand dmg and actual AC
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>:V=3

Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Monday, 26th May 2014, 14:28

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

Cerebovsquire wrote a guide for TrCj some time ago where you can get some general good advice here, instad of meph cloud you should use stone arrow earlier and then lrd and don't train ice magic but earth magic.

Shortly, if you wanna play a Tr caster you should consider the magic part a strong support but never neglect your claws: even with low int you should get at decent power sandblast, stone arrow and lrd (by lair), which can soften tough enemy and then proceed to shred to pieces with your punches.
From the starting book, I wouldn't bother to learn/rely on petrify (you need good spellpower to use it, and it's quite costly for a Tr). Statue form is totally waste of experience for a Tr, in a 3 runes game.
I'd add to cerebovsquire's gods selection Ashenzari, if have some jewellery/armour to curse to get some bound, by the time you found her altar: her skill bonus is extremely good for a Tr, but unlike other races you shouldn't curse a weapon, which slows a lot piety gain
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Monday, 26th May 2014, 17:22

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

I'd also point out that once you have plenty of large rocks, a large-rock wielded sandblast does pretty damn decent damage, of course you can't use it often, but for those things you don't want to get up close and personal with claws it's pretty effective.
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Zot Zealot

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Post Monday, 26th May 2014, 17:23

omegonthesane wrote:Is there something I'm missing?

Some time ago there was a long discussion about statue form, especially for trolls: Do I overestimate statue form?

In my opinion the question is what you are looking for.

  • Nago already mentioned that you won't look for it in a 3-runer.

  • Concerning 15 runes: although one of the best advice givers in this forum, KoboldLord, is a bit doubtful about this, I personally like the combination statue form + stoneskin + haste for a troll. Stone claws are great. And in the extended - pan/tomb/hell - torment protection helps a lot.

    Because of trolls' bad aptitudes in magic skills you will usually need a staff/ring of wizardry *and* divine help. Ashenzari (boost of magic skills) or Cheibriados (boost of Int) have already been mentioned above.
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Tartarus Sorceror

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Post Tuesday, 27th May 2014, 04:06

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

A TrEE who do not go Fedhas, a shameful TrEE
take it easy

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Snake Sneak

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Post Tuesday, 27th May 2014, 10:05

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

Arrhythmia wrote:A TrEE who do not go Fedhas, a shameful TrEE


A TrEE who does not go Fedhas bears no fruit
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Crypt Cleanser

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Post Tuesday, 27th May 2014, 11:03

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

If a TrEE falls in a dungeon and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?
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Barkeep

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Post Tuesday, 27th May 2014, 18:17

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

+1 on TrEE^Chei. Both the int and dex bonuses are very nice (oh hey look you can get some EV), and earth conjurations make "you can essentially never move in combat" a lot less crippling. May as well get Statue Form and kill hard stuff with Slouch, too.

I think I got Shatter on mine but that was more a "hey look I can cast a level 9 spell with a Troll" novelty rather than good investment of XP.
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Cocytus Succeeder

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Post Tuesday, 27th May 2014, 19:09

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

Statue form with chei is awful
screw it I hate this character I'm gonna go melee Gastronok

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Post Tuesday, 27th May 2014, 19:29

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

Statue form with Chei is powerful. It's also extremely tedious. And one mistake, especially around water, will give monsters enormous amounts of time to hit on you. I was really, really getting frustrated using it in swamp on my OpEE. So you're autoexploring in swamp, you can swim, you're in the middle of a lake. A hydra comes into view 7 tiles away. You now have to cast statue form, stone skin, and flight. Because statue octopodes no longer swim - you won't drown, but you get water penalties and fumble attacks. Regeneration would probably be nice, and if it's something with ranged attacks instead of a hydra you want repel missiles, etc.

This becomes extremely tedious. I put up with it because of undying love of statue form and chei, but I wouldn't blame anyone who thought this was torturous. You also have really, really think before you move - a single step into water can take up to SIX turns (1.0 base move, +100% Chei, + 50% statue form, + 100% water penalty (this penalty is random, but can go up to 100%)). Flight removes the last water penalty part of course, if you have it, and if you haven't forgotten to cast it. Checking your buff status before taking a step is a great way to slow down your game and make lots of mistakes.

Usually by the time I had buffed up whatever I had found was already in melee range of me. I mean I suppose that's nice when I can't walk, but it just shows how long you're taking to prepare for things. I was thinking about writing up some proposals to address some of this stuff, but haven't done it yet. Maybe later today.
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Zot Zealot

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Post Tuesday, 27th May 2014, 20:22

tasonir wrote:Statue form with Chei is powerful. It's also extremely tedious. And one mistake, especially around water, will give monsters enormous amounts of time to hit on you.

The "one wrong step problem" with Chei prevents me from joining him - although I have been told that it's not as dangerous as I think.

I personally really like a troll of Ash in statue form. Cursed jewellry will give about +4.5 to magic skills - tMut, earth and charms - which is a lot considering trolls' bad aptitudes. Btw, haste is recommended to compensate for statue form's slowing effect.

So if you need statue form (usually to get some protection from torment) it's haste + statue form + stoneskin and your troll becomes a tank.

Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Tuesday, 27th May 2014, 20:31

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

Haste is good for a statue form character, but a hasted statue form character is still 1.5 times slower than a hasted character that isn't using slowform, and situations where you want to be hasted are pretty similar for both of those characters, so I usually don't even mention haste when talking about statue form.
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Barkeep

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Post Wednesday, 28th May 2014, 13:35

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

nago wrote:Statue form with chei is awful

I think you misspelled 'hilarious' ;)
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Swamp Slogger

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Post Wednesday, 28th May 2014, 20:33

Re:

Turukano wrote:The "one wrong step problem" with Chei prevents me from joining him - although I have been told that it's not as dangerous as I think.


Nope, it is!

Ashenzari is always good.

Blades Runner

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Post Wednesday, 28th May 2014, 21:51

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

Roderic wrote:If a TrEE falls in a dungeon and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?

Well, Henzell and other bots will report it in ##crawl, so the answer might as well be "yes".
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Post Friday, 30th May 2014, 06:07

Re: Re:

zardo wrote:Ashenzari is always good.

Even though I main Ashenzari and can confirm that she is great for spellcasters and hybrids alike, I will say that Chei is the #1 deity for multiclassers in terms of pure, raw effectiveness (and I place Ashie at a close #2). Chei is gimmicky though, you have to play the game a completely different way due to the speed issues, and unlike Ashie you can break the spine of everything in sight at the same time via Slouch pwnage-- Ashie doesn't give you any crazy Dragonball Z powers like that, her gifts are all mellow yet super solid all around.

If you're a Troll I'm guessing you'll want Chei over Ashie, because Trolls have several unique gimmicks as characters and Chei happens to account for many of them. Most races can play a viable hybrid with either Chei or Ashie, but some races will want one over the other (Tengus for example should never go Chei in my opinion unless you're notcluie).
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Barkeep

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Post Friday, 30th May 2014, 13:48

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

I don't hate Chei nearly as much as some on Tavern, but saying she's the #1 diety for any build is... well, something I wouldn't agree with. She takes away your ability to walk away from fights, which is really really really powerful in Crawl. Yes, you can fight at normal speed and increased power, but not fighting is super important, too.

TrEE^Chei is relatively good because it's particularly dependent on stats and TrEE is already really good.

But: I think Ash is objectively more powerful than Chei for all builds.
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Sar

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Ziggurat Zagger

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Post Friday, 30th May 2014, 14:03

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

Well, at worst Ash just doesn't do anything to you.
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Barkeep

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Post Friday, 30th May 2014, 16:14

Re: How do I planted TrEE?

Unless you abandon her. Ash wrath is kinda horrible, unless it's changed recently.
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